VIA's New Centaur Designed Isaiah CPU Architecture @ [H]

Obi_Kwiet said:
If they make enough money from this, they'd be wise to add a few cores and start scaling it up a bit. If it can get performance that good at 20w full load, I'd like to see what they could do with 100w.
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I just cannot see that happening. VIA is now, primarily a cpu maker for small systems. I think itś best that they stick with it. Right now they are good at what they do and need to build up a base there. In a few years (10+), they might scale up.
 
Did they give any hint about the public name?

Marketing and public perception is everything, and I really hope they get some clever people to come up with a good name - but not too clever.

How about:
VIA Enlight
VIA Polaris
VIA Creation (that's sort of witty because is kinda has "C8" in there)
VIA Ascension
VIA Innova or Inova (my favorite – it is short for innovation, has “nova” in it – and everybody thinks exploding stars are awesome)


Things they should not name it:
VIA C8
VIA _____ *insert Biblical name here*
VIA Fur Seal Killer
VIA Double Kimchee
VIA Cool Smoke
And certainly no more of this bland Eden or EPIA meaningless crap, please.
 
20W is much more competitive.

I do hope that the 20W figure is an absolute maximum, though, because the LV Core 2 parts (e.g. like in the new MacBook Air) have TDP of 17W @ 1.8GHz, and they have two cores.

It's also possible that there is another "mobile" Centaur model that will be even lower power.
 
Servant of Shodan said:
Did they give any hint about the public name?

Marketing and public perception is everything, and I really hope they get some clever people to come up with a good name - but not too clever.

How about:
VIA Enlight
VIA Polaris
VIA Creation (that's sort of witty because is kinda has "C8" in there)
VIA Ascension
VIA Innova or Inova (my favorite – it is short for innovation, has “nova” in it – and everybody thinks exploding stars are awesome)


Things they should not name it:
VIA C8
VIA _____ *insert Biblical name here*
VIA Fur Seal Killer
VIA Double Kimchee
VIA Cool Smoke
And certainly no more of this bland Eden or EPIA meaningless crap, please.
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They could call it VIA Crap-tastic for all I care, if the price and performance are there, then I'm in for one... I'd like to see what the modding community could do with this. So many ideas...
 
Modred189 said:
I just cannot see that happening. VIA is now, primarily a cpu maker for small systems. I think itś best that they stick with it. Right now they are good at what they do and need to build up a base there. In a few years (10+), they might scale up.
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10+ is a very long time. It's impossible to say weather Nvidia or AMD will be around then. If they build up a strong base in the next two years, they should consider doing some sort of deal with AMD.
 
Next version of the Wii could run quite nice on that.
 
Dam, via is back in the game again. Everyones got to realize that a 2.0ghz via cpu could be compared possibly to something a lot higher since the clocks per a cycle is probably a lot more than the cpus back then. They are probably going to rate it like amd where if its 2.0ghz then it would be called a 3000 or something.
 
Obi_Kwiet said:
10+ is a very long time. It's impossible to say weather Nvidia or AMD will be around then. If they build up a strong base in the next two years, they should consider doing some sort of deal with AMD.
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Possibly, but look at it this way: they would be trying to break into a market that is STRONGLY held by two companies (Intel/AMD). Not only do you have song market forces keeping them in place, but you have VERY strong brand loyalty to fight.
Thus, VIA would have to do something like Kodak did with their new printers: find a gimik, something that sets them apart. Get some visibility.

So for right now, that means high HP, low cost/heat/power processors for mobile devices. They need to build a name for themselves NOT just amongst the enthusiasts and industry-followers.
I mean, can you see Dell or Hewlett Packard proclaiming a VIA CPU?

Partnerships would be a good start, though, as you would begin to get your name linked to the big players with visibility.
 
Kyle.
Any word on the SMP capability of this and if any interest in SMP boards ( crossing my fingers)
4- 20 watt CPUs running folding farms or rendering farms,,,,,;)
 
airbatica said:
Am I the only one that wants to know how it Folds? Because, if they can get the price down to what a low end AMD or Intel setup costs.... wow. You could have a cluster of 10 of these things running at (guestimate) around 300 watts. Think of the power savings!
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Michael Daly said:
You're reading my mind. Now are the MBs going to be in the $100 (like the Intel ITX) or $300 (like the MSI T7nnn CPU) category?
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Hey, take a look at post #16. :p

 
griff30 said:
Kyle.
Any word on the SMP capability of this and if any interest in SMP boards ( crossing my fingers)
4- 20 watt CPUs running folding farms or rendering farms,,,,,;)
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Yep, is it SMPable but I don't think you will see any resources put into developing it.
 
I would be interested in seeing a performance comparison versus the Celeron lineup, since they seem to have roughly the same speed range.

Was the 2ghz mentioned in the article the maximum speed they are releasing the chip at, or the maximum speed the architecture is able to support?
 
While I would be migrating my current stuff into an HTPC when I get upgraditis + the cash to do it (don't think I'll get any of this govt stuff -fixed disability)
I do see a market for this as an HTPC, since it will draw the same or less as an ACTUAL appliance instead of the computers they are now
Also depending on how much battery life can be squeezed out of this it might be interesting in an the ebook dept as well, running a decent screen and an OS to read everything (keep it the size of a paperback book)

Yeah I have a hangup over wanting my PERFECT ebook
 
If one of these happen to find its way into say something like a Asus Eee then you can count me in as a customer. A very large performance improvement over the past VIA processors and that makes me happy. Looking forward to see this product in well products. :)
 
Modred189 said:
Did they give you guys any indication of price or number of models? I mean, this is all well and good, but if it costs $400 (I exaggerate) for a cpu and mobo, it might not be worth it.aOn the other hand, if the two may be had for ~$150-$200, there are some evry interesting applications that come to mind for home-brews.
I've been wanting to build, from scratch, a PC to mount in my car. Little 7-inch touch screen from a gutted nav unit (like the touch screen EePC that guy made a few weeks ago). Build in a GPS reciever, bluetooth, Linux OS, maybe a big 500gb hard drive. The things you could do for VERY cheap, and now have the power to do it quickly and efficiently. NOT feeling like you are using an old sony Clie.
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I've got a PC in my glovebox - Albatron AM2 mini ITX w/ 690G chipset, AMD BE-2350 CPU. It has about a 35w TDP but is actually idle most of the time so power requirements are low. It uses a Thermalright HR-05 northbridge cooler for the CPU. I originally had a 1GHz VIA C3 mobo, but it had trouble with video and multitasking. VIA definitely needed to improve its CPU power. This new CPU will probably make a multifunction carputer much more viable and less expensive.
 
This is exciting. These new cpus would be very nice for higher end linux router distros and htpcs.
 
MatDef said:
Is anyone else shocked as hell about this?

*sits down*

I mean seriously, a via cpu thats actually worth something performance wise? Sign me up!
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Not really, I've been waiting for them to deliver more than a single pipeline in-order CPU for some time. They just can't compete otherwise.

Via took the easy way out and mimicked the easiest parts of the Core2 design (fused macro ops, speculative load, x86-64, 128-bit SSE units), while keeping the issue/retire pipeline simple at 3 per clock (like the Athlon 64 / Barcelona).

The integer architecture really resembles the P6, with one integer unit capable of full operations and the other handling most functions plus branches. The two media units are nicely designed; unit B will get full usage because it won't be bogged-down when divide or integer multiplies come down the road, but the thoroughput won't come anywhere near Core2 with it's two full-featured media units.

Thanks to the 3-issue design and marginal floating point capability, I expect performance to be almost as good as an Athlon 64. Still quite good for a company with such a tiny development team, I really couldn't expect anything more. But they're treading on dangerous territory here: they're no-longer selling a bog-simple processor, so they can't hope to sell it as "low-power." At the same time, the design cannot hope to compete in the high-performance space with the Core2 Duo or Quad. Via will be walking a fine line with their new baby.
 
whoa, looks like my CarPC might be VIA based after all and perhaps my Xbox might get kicked off the entertainment center too. I'll have to show my brother this as well. His old CarPC is pulling HTPC duty, but way under-powered.
 
defaultluser said:
Not really, I've been waiting for them to deliver more than a single pipeline in-order CPU for some time. They just can't compete otherwise.

Via took the easy way out and mimicked the easiest parts of the Core2 design (fused macro ops, speculative load, x86-64, 128-bit SSE units), while keeping the issue/retire pipeline simple at 3 per clock (like the Athlon 64 / Barcelona).

The integer architecture really resembles the P6, with one integer unit capable of full operations and the other handling most functions plus branches. The two media units are nicely designed; unit B will get full usage because it won't be bogged-down when divide or integer multiplies come down the road, but the thoroughput won't come anywhere near Core2 with it's two full-featured media units.

Thanks to the 3-issue design and marginal floating point capability, I expect performance to be almost as good as an Athlon 64. Still quite good for a company with such a tiny development team, I really couldn't expect anything more. But they're treading on dangerous territory here: they're no-longer selling a bog-simple processor, so they can't hope to sell it as "low-power." At the same time, the design cannot hope to compete in the high-performance space with the Core2 Duo or Quad. Via will be walking a fine line with their new baby.
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You're missing the point. Who really needs a Core2Duo or Quad? If you're surfing the web, writing some e-mails, listening to your MP3s or typing away in a word processor they're overkill. It's way more power then you need. If these are cheap (and I'm sure they will be) it could be the heart of your sister's new $299 PC (with monitor). I know that my sister would never tell the difference - she's still happy with the AthlonXP 1700+ machine I gave her. I offered her a Barton 2500+ that I pulled out of a dead PC and she wanted to know why she needed it - "it's faster" wasn't good enough.

Since PC components are so powerful (and cheap) the low-end is good enough for 98% of users, which is where this falls in. Not everyone demands Crysis at 1000+fps at 2550x1600 - in fact most users couldn't care less. Imagine a desktop PC the size of a small stack of DVD cases - users like my sister would really like that.
 
This low cost, sub 20 watt VIA cpu in a small form factor case sounds great as a HTPC (The size of a portable DVD player?).

Will you be able to add a PCI-E video card, like a passive HD3450?

or

Will these be used in cheap laptops/PCs with onboard video only with no upgrade option?

or

both?

A passively cooled 1.2 ghz cpu running 720p video sounds impressive.
 
ClearM4 said:
This low cost, sub 20 watt VIA cpu in a small form factor case sounds great as a HTPC (The size of a portable DVD player?).

Will you be able to add a PCI-E video card, like a passive HD3450?

or

Will these be used in cheap laptops/PCs with onboard video only with no upgrade option?

or

both?

A passively cooled 1.2 ghz cpu running 720p video sounds impressive.
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Check out the new post made on the main page. They show these guys with retail mobos running many new video cards, including ati's and an Nvidia 8800GT.
 
SharpieFiend said:
You're missing the point. Who really needs a Core2Duo or Quad? If you're surfing the web, writing some e-mails, listening to your MP3s or typing away in a word processor they're overkill. It's way more power then you need. If these are cheap (and I'm sure they will be) it could be the heart of your sister's new $299 PC (with monitor). I know that my sister would never tell the difference - she's still happy with the AthlonXP 1700+ machine I gave her. I offered her a Barton 2500+ that I pulled out of a dead PC and she wanted to know why she needed it - "it's faster" wasn't good enough.

Since PC components are so powerful (and cheap) the low-end is good enough for 98% of users, which is where this falls in. Not everyone demands Crysis at 1000+fps at 2550x1600 - in fact most users couldn't care less. Imagine a desktop PC the size of a small stack of DVD cases - users like my sister would really like that.
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I'm not saying they can't find a market for this processor, only that that market will not be the same as the niche found for the C7. This processor inherently uses more power than the C7 and costs significantly more to make (larger die, sunk engineering costs), but it also inherently performs worse than modern desktop processors, which means Via will again have a tough job digging out their own space in the market.

For reference, Intel LV dual-core mobile processors (example, the processor used in Apple's new Air) will match this processor in terms of power, price and clock speed, and blow it away in terms of performance. Intel has the advantage of their own in-house 45nm process to drop prices like a rock. And on the AMD side, although AMD's 65nm process cannot build a chip with lower power consumption, you can bet AMD's aggressive pricing will hurt the average selling price of this chip.
 
Well, I think that VIA is aiming for the "good enough" area. The problem is that "good enough" keeps moving. At one time my Libretto 30 with a 486-100 and 20MB of RAM was good enough. Now it's hopelessly outdated. As people require greater a better interface and more advanced programs, the need for more HD space, RAM, CPU power and screen real estate increase. VIA is just keeping pace with the good enough.

Apple's use of Intel's "special" processor isn't that special - it's merely one of their ULV chips with a smaller package, the die remains the same. The problem is that Intel can't crank out tons of these chips - they're binned from their regular ones and only the best make it. As such, Intel charges a premium for them. Apple purchasers don't mind paying premium prices, so this is a natural convergence in the market. VIA also has an inexpensive and well documented chipset, making motherboard design far more straightforward. Manufacturers looking for a $300-400 micro laptop like the Eee or the Cloudbook or possibly a set top box will probably welcome this CPU.
 
I don't know. The lowly Celeron 430 (1.8GHz Conroe-L) is "good enough" for the vast majority of uses and is pretty low power at 35W for a desktop processor. My laptop runs single threaded applications even slower because it's a dual core Merom at 1.46GHz and I have no complaints about the performance.

VIA probably can't catch Conroe performance per clock, but if the 2GHz 20W Isaiah chip is in the ballpark of the Celeron M 410 (1.46GHz, 27W), it's not doing too bad performance-wise. The chips will of course age, but don't get ridiculous about it. No one is expecting acceptable levels of performance 13 years later like your 486-100 example. :p Clock speeds should still rise, even if VIA/Centaur never aims for the higher end of performance.

http://techreport.com/articles.x/13996/2
We weren't able to run any benchmarks, but Centaur did have several demo systems set up in order to show off its new processor's capabilities. One of them played back a compressed video at 720p resolution using the combination of a 1.2GHz ultra-low-voltage Isaiah chip and a VX800 chipset connected by an 800MHz front-side bus. This system used only passive cooling. Another demo rig played a Blu-ray disc fluidly using a 1.3GHz Isaiah assisted by a Radeon HD 3850. And the third system combined a 2GHz Isaiah with a GeForce 7950 GT to run a couple of games, including Viva Pinata and Crysis. I wasn't able to play any games on this system in our limited time there, but they did look to run smoothly enough.
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Doesn't sound too bad.
 
Fenris_Ulf said:
Apple's use of Intel's "special" processor isn't that special - it's merely one of their ULV chips with a smaller package, the die remains the same. The problem is that Intel can't crank out tons of these chips - they're binned from their regular ones and only the best make it. As such, Intel charges a premium for them. Apple purchasers don't mind paying premium prices, so this is a natural convergence in the market. VIA also has an inexpensive and well documented chipset, making motherboard design far more straightforward. Manufacturers looking for a $300-400 micro laptop like the Eee or the Cloudbook or possibly a set top box will probably welcome this CPU.
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Well, not really. The Air CPU is just a LV 65nm chip with the new package Intel was set to introduce later in the year with their 45nm Core2 mobile platform. And no, that's not part of the ULV series, it's just LV, which is much cheaper.

I used the Air CPU as an example because, what is now specially binned LV for the Air will become completely mainstream once Intel moves Core2 mobile completely to 45nm. If you havn't been paying attention, the move to 45nm cuts power consumption by %40 at the exact same voltages and clock speeds, and I guarantee Intel will have their 45nm process ramped up by the time we see production quantities of this new chip.

Suddenly, Via's hardware position doesn't look so hot.
 
defaultluser said:
Well, not really. The Air CPU is just a LV 65nm chip with the new package Intel was set to introduce later in the year with their 45nm Core2 mobile platform. And no, that's not part of the ULV series, it's just LV, which is much cheaper.

I used the Air CPU as an example because, what is now specially binned LV for the Air will become completely mainstream once Intel moves Core2 mobile completely to 45nm. If you havn't been paying attention, the move to 45nm cuts power consumption by %40 at the exact same voltages and clock speeds, and I guarantee Intel will have their 45nm process ramped up by the time we see production quantities of this new chip.

Suddenly, Via's hardware position doesn't look so hot.
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Good point. I agree intels 45nm architecture is top notch. Their "tick-tock" strategy is hard to beat.

But I still think that Centaur has outdone themselves too for a 65nm design. This chip has many advanced features that intel still lacks. And their will be a huge savings because their design is very efficient for an x86 processor. The entire idea behind this process is attaining max efficiency and high levels of performance from optimum use of silicon. However admittedly, Intel uses most of their die space on cache.

I would be interested in a Linux box that could take advantage of the encryption acceleration of this chip. It floating point performance also sounds amazing and they do claim to have the worlds fastest, a bold statement.

It may also be used as a powerful linux server at very low cost. With realtime encryption at no performance hit and low power usage.

I await the benchmarks (in linux especially).
 
it looks like this CPU will be used in the new HP 2133 UMPC with its 8.9" screen and Airbook style aluminium looks.
 
How much will that HP cost? If it is more in line with the Eee PC or Cloudbook, then sign me up!
 
I run a Sony ultra portable, less than 3 pounds, with more features. I don't know if I would want anything smaller..
 
kind of a toss up between a UMPC and a thin-n-light notebook.

i think a 7" screen at 800x480 is both too small, and ineffective.

i also think a notebook 12" or larger is too bulky to be worth carting around.

the 11.1" sony's are nice, but they cost a fortune.

a cheap nine inch with a useful res is an acceptable compromise for me.
 
i always thought VIA was a low-end cpu but not after reading the article Intel and AMD better step-up and bring something new to the table,

the future is fan-less
 
It will be interesting to have UMPCs that are fanless and still quite powerful.(well for a system thats just for word processing and email checking)

Also I'm really considering getting the cloudbook, pretty much what I've been looking for in a small long battery life notebook to haul around to classes next year
 
Zap said:
Dual VIA CPU mini ITX board

I remember actually seeing these for sale at around $250, BITD.
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I can find no mention of this product, other than a few Previews and speculative articles about this product online.

Where may I go about purchasing one? it's interesting and I want to know more, but I cannot find anything about them
 
Pretty sure the VT310-DP is out of production, but there's one available at Logic Supply. Not worth that much money to me, I could get a decent Merom mini-ITX for that price.
 
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