Verizon Admits to Throttling Netflix

Megalith

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Earlier this week, a number of Verizon subscribers discovered that the carrier was capping Netflix at 10Mbps. The company has now admitted to the throttling, calling it a “network test” that “should be completed shortly.” While 1080p video can be streamed without issue at those speeds, Verizon had boasted in the past of not manipulating its data like AT&T and T-Mobile. This is also a clear example of why net neutrality will be missed.

“We’ve been doing network testing over the past few days to optimize the performance of video applications on our network. The testing should be completed shortly. The customer video experience was not affected.” While Verizon states that video experience was not affected for customers, that’s not exactly the point. With Title II still in effect, ISPs are required to treat all data equally, regardless of its origin. If Verizon is purposefully throttling (or placing caps on select applications), that’s a no-no.
 
D

Deleted member 245375

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10 Mbps using h.264 is a LOT of bandwidth, and with h.265 it's even more (which is what I believe the Netflix 4K streams use) so, it shouldn't even be an issue really with anybody streaming anything from Netflix. Now, if Verizon was capping it at 2-4 Mbps then sure, that would be a big issue but, 10 Mbps, fuck man that's plenty of bandwidth for any currently in use HD resolution formats for h.264/h.265 streaming.

People really should learn a bit more about how video compression works most of the time. Yes video streams can and do have pretty serious peak bitrate instances but those can be balanced out as needed for the brief moments they usually last (extremely high motion content where literally every pixel changes content to some degree on a frame by frame basis with not much static content happening). Yes, 10 Mbps is actually a good amount of bandwidth IF - and this is the big condition here - the streaming provider can do it reliably across the connection and the routing to the player of choice is solid and consistent. While Verizon may be capping it at 10 Mbps on their end it's the resulting connection quality from them to your device/media player where most of the issues are.

But seriously, 10 Mbps is a lot of bandwidth and can easily cover 720p/1080p streams in h.264 and absolutely with h.265 without any really big issues overall.
 

PhoNoodles

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10 Mbps using h.264 is a LOT of bandwidth, and with h.265 it's even more (which is what I believe the Netflix 4K streams use) so, it shouldn't even be an issue really with anybody streaming anything from Netflix. Now, if Verizon was capping it at 2-4 Mbps then sure, that would be a big issue but, 10 Mbps, fuck man that's plenty of bandwidth for any currently in use HD resolution formats for h.264/h.265 streaming.

People really should learn a bit more about how video compression works most of the time. Yes video streams can and do have pretty serious peak bitrate instances but those can be balanced out as needed for the brief moments they usually last (extremely high motion content where literally every pixel changes content to some degree on a frame by frame basis with not much static content happening). Yes, 10 Mbps is actually a good amount of bandwidth IF - and this is the big condition here - the streaming provider can do it reliably across the connection and the routing to the player of choice is solid and consistent. While Verizon may be capping it at 10 Mbps on their end it's the resulting connection quality from them to your device/media player where most of the issues are.

But seriously, 10 Mbps is a lot of bandwidth and can easily cover 720p/1080p streams in h.264 and absolutely with h.265 without any really big issues overall.

The issue is that they are throttling, which is against the present rules that are in effect for net neutrality, NOT that it's enough bandwitdh... read first maybe? Before telling others that they should go learn?
 

Stryke1983

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10 Mbps using h.264 is a LOT of bandwidth, and with h.265 it's even more (which is what I believe the Netflix 4K streams use) so, it shouldn't even be an issue really with anybody streaming anything from Netflix. Now, if Verizon was capping it at 2-4 Mbps then sure, that would be a big issue but, 10 Mbps, fuck man that's plenty of bandwidth for any currently in use HD resolution formats for h.264/h.265 streaming.

People really should learn a bit more about how video compression works most of the time. Yes video streams can and do have pretty serious peak bitrate instances but those can be balanced out as needed for the brief moments they usually last (extremely high motion content where literally every pixel changes content to some degree on a frame by frame basis with not much static content happening). Yes, 10 Mbps is actually a good amount of bandwidth IF - and this is the big condition here - the streaming provider can do it reliably across the connection and the routing to the player of choice is solid and consistent. While Verizon may be capping it at 10 Mbps on their end it's the resulting connection quality from them to your device/media player where most of the issues are.

But seriously, 10 Mbps is a lot of bandwidth and can easily cover 720p/1080p streams in h.264 and absolutely with h.265 without any really big issues overall.

The point is that after saying they don't throttle specific data they turn around and do that exact thing, charging you for a certain speed only to go "well you're paying for this, but we've decided you can only have that speed from companies X,Y and Z and not A,B and C because they pay us more money which you then have to pay through additional prices from those companies". If this administration goes ahead with it's plans it will just mean that consumers get shittier, less reliable service for greater cost.
 

Vermillion

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10 Mbps using h.264 is a LOT of bandwidth, and with h.265 it's even more (which is what I believe the Netflix 4K streams use) so, it shouldn't even be an issue really with anybody streaming anything from Netflix. Now, if Verizon was capping it at 2-4 Mbps then sure, that would be a big issue but, 10 Mbps, fuck man that's plenty of bandwidth for any currently in use HD resolution formats for h.264/h.265 streaming.

People really should learn a bit more about how video compression works most of the time. Yes video streams can and do have pretty serious peak bitrate instances but those can be balanced out as needed for the brief moments they usually last (extremely high motion content where literally every pixel changes content to some degree on a frame by frame basis with not much static content happening). Yes, 10 Mbps is actually a good amount of bandwidth IF - and this is the big condition here - the streaming provider can do it reliably across the connection and the routing to the player of choice is solid and consistent. While Verizon may be capping it at 10 Mbps on their end it's the resulting connection quality from them to your device/media player where most of the issues are.

But seriously, 10 Mbps is a lot of bandwidth and can easily cover 720p/1080p streams in h.264 and absolutely with h.265 without any really big issues overall.

That's a bullshit excuse to try to defend Verizon's horseshit when they're breaking the law right now.

Based on the complaints and the fact that people noticed the throttling we can very easily see that Verizon is NOT able to do this throttling consistently to give people the viewing quality they demand. And what happens when they start doing this to FiOS (we all know they will once NN is killed off) and a household starts streaming 2 or 3 things from Netflix at once? That's a very common thing in my house.

This is a taste of things to come and it's a big steaming pile of shit.
 

Master_shake_

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if verizon weren't dicks they could put a netflix cdn in their data centers and zero rate them which is still violating net neutrality but fuck me right?
 

Damar

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VZ and Comcast and the rest are going to nickel and dime (and extort) every penny they can get. If they have free license to throttle until a company like Netflix pays up, they're going to throttle the hell out of them.

If it gets bad enough that people cant stream and get the quality they want and are paying for, I can see it driving some to torrents to get HQ files to watch instead.

Of course, when VZ and Comcast get tired of the current model and go to billing people by the byte or megabyte... things will get much more interesting. ;)
 

ManofGod

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*Shurgs* I cannot purchased Verizon Fios where I live anyways so, no skin off my back. I also do not have the super expensive verizon wireless.
 

Cali3350

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10 Mbps using h.264 is a LOT of bandwidth, and with h.265 it's even more (which is what I believe the Netflix 4K streams use) so, it shouldn't even be an issue really with anybody streaming anything from Netflix. Now, if Verizon was capping it at 2-4 Mbps then sure, that would be a big issue but, 10 Mbps, fuck man that's plenty of bandwidth for any currently in use HD resolution formats for h.264/h.265 streaming.

People really should learn a bit more about how video compression works most of the time. Yes video streams can and do have pretty serious peak bitrate instances but those can be balanced out as needed for the brief moments they usually last (extremely high motion content where literally every pixel changes content to some degree on a frame by frame basis with not much static content happening). Yes, 10 Mbps is actually a good amount of bandwidth IF - and this is the big condition here - the streaming provider can do it reliably across the connection and the routing to the player of choice is solid and consistent. While Verizon may be capping it at 10 Mbps on their end it's the resulting connection quality from them to your device/media player where most of the issues are.

But seriously, 10 Mbps is a lot of bandwidth and can easily cover 720p/1080p streams in h.264 and absolutely with h.265 without any really big issues overall.
Thats moving the goalposts. "We do not throttle" is not the same as "We do not meaningfully throttle". We can debate the impact all we want, the ultimate issue is Verizon not doing what they said.
 
D

Deleted member 245375

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I wasn't excusing the practice of them being deceptive, I didn't mention or even touch on that aspect since it's pretty fucking obvious they are being deceptive and you folks can obviously see that, least that was the hope. ;)
 

Galvin

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I can see a deluxe package from comcast to get netflix throttle free, some day
 

Prav

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Hopefully killing net neutrality will allow these laws to be fixed soon. Forcing me to pay higher fees so some can enjoy unmetered video streaming services is as absurd as having to pay increasing cable fees to subsidize bad sports and other channels I dont care about each month. Im all in favor of a la carte internet and cable. People watching endless amounts of youtube, netflix and prime video can pay their usage so everyone else can enjoy lower bills. Of course I am saying this as someone who only watches 10+ hours of online video each week.
 

Lorien

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the idiot ex-Verizon lawyer running the FCC kills off Net Neutrality!

We don't need no stinking Net Neutrality!

/s

God we are so fucked.

You only have yourselves to blame for electing the people who would put such a devious cunting asshole there in the first place.
 

m_isom

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Hopefully killing net neutrality will allow these laws to be fixed soon. Forcing me to pay higher fees so some can enjoy unmetered video streaming services is as absurd as having to pay increasing cable fees to subsidize bad sports and other channels I dont care about each month. Im all in favor of a la carte internet and cable. People watching endless amounts of youtube, netflix and prime video can pay their usage so everyone else can enjoy lower bills. Of course I am saying this as someone who only watches 10+ hours of online video each week.

None of this will ever result in lower bills, everything will raise in price.
 

SticKx911

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At least t-mobile doesn't count it against your data or let's you opt out if you have golden eyes and can tell the difference.
 

YeuEmMaiMai

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T-Mobile does limit it to DVD resolution if you do not have unlimited data though...
 

sfsuphysics

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speak with your wallets sheeple
Easier said than done. Yeah sure you could speak with your wallets and go in the direction of AT&T and if you're lucky you have 24Mbps Uverse, if you're not like me you have 5Mbps ADSL... ahem... "Uverse", now Verizon doesn't have a presence here but my option for any reasonably fast internet has been Comcast, so I'd love to have the option of speaking with my wallet when it comes to Comcast, but the sad fact is there are no other choice at reasonable speeds, I have a choice of 50Mbps+ or 5Mbps.
 
Joined
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Hopefully killing net neutrality will allow these laws to be fixed soon. Forcing me to pay higher fees so some can enjoy unmetered video streaming services is as absurd as having to pay increasing cable fees to subsidize bad sports and other channels I dont care about each month. Im all in favor of a la carte internet and cable. People watching endless amounts of youtube, netflix and prime video can pay their usage so everyone else can enjoy lower bills. Of course I am saying this as someone who only watches 10+ hours of online video each week.
Getting your wish will result in forcing higher prices on you, you will gain nothing from NN being killed off. But you keep telling your self that once you see the increase in your bill.
 

mesyn191

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*Shurgs* I cannot purchased Verizon Fios where I live anyways so, no skin off my back. I also do not have the super expensive verizon wireless.
"Doesn't effect me so why should I care?" is some childish thinking...at best.

And you should care because they've been caught red handed talking out of both sides of their mouth and crap like this is going to set the tone for "best business practices" by ISP's over the next few years with Pai's, Trump's, and Repub's FCC. So at work or at home you will eventually be effected no matter what.

speak with your wallets sheeple
In a monopoly situation you effectively can't do this, and you know it. And for better or worse the internet is a big chunk of people's lives and the economy now so you can't just say "well don't use it then" when a reasonable method (ie. better + stronger govt. regulation of ISP service pricing) exists to improve if not outright fix the situation.

Hopefully killing net neutrality will allow these laws to be fixed soon.
It'll do the exact opposite. Service quality will go down and prices will go up. Killing Net Neutrality is all about milking customers for more money + reducing operating costs for ISP's and that is it.
 

ManofGod

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"Doesn't effect me so why should I care?" is some childish thinking...at best.

And you should care because they've been caught red handed talking out of both sides of their mouth and crap like this is going to set the tone for "best business practices" by ISP's over the next few years with Pai's, Trump's, and Repub's FCC. So at work or at home you will eventually be effected no matter what.


In a monopoly situation you effectively can't do this, and you know it. And for better or worse the internet is a big chunk of people's lives and the economy now so you can't just say "well don't use it then" when a reasonable method (ie. better + stronger govt. regulation of ISP service pricing) exists to improve if not outright fix the situation.


It'll do the exact opposite. Service quality will go down and prices will go up. Killing Net Neutrality is all about milking customers for more money + reducing operating costs for ISP's and that is it.

So, I guess I have childish thinking, at best.... :D In a world where folks are willing to pay out the nose for cell and data service, this is not something they will really care about.
 

oldmanbal

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I have to admit I was thinking about getting rid of Comcast but they have incrementally increased my speeds up to 250 Mbps which serves my torrenting needs fine for the time being. The U/L however is a paltry 10 so I'm still gimped af as far as sharing goes.
 

spinach_chin

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None of this will ever result in lower bills, everything will raise in price.
Right, because if there's anything we can say about government regulation of a service or technology, it's that it always results in lower prices...
 

Gasaraki_

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10 Mbps using h.264 is a LOT of bandwidth, and with h.265 it's even more (which is what I believe the Netflix 4K streams use) so, it shouldn't even be an issue really with anybody streaming anything from Netflix. Now, if Verizon was capping it at 2-4 Mbps then sure, that would be a big issue but, 10 Mbps, fuck man that's plenty of bandwidth for any currently in use HD resolution formats for h.264/h.265 streaming.

People really should learn a bit more about how video compression works most of the time. Yes video streams can and do have pretty serious peak bitrate instances but those can be balanced out as needed for the brief moments they usually last (extremely high motion content where literally every pixel changes content to some degree on a frame by frame basis with not much static content happening). Yes, 10 Mbps is actually a good amount of bandwidth IF - and this is the big condition here - the streaming provider can do it reliably across the connection and the routing to the player of choice is solid and consistent. While Verizon may be capping it at 10 Mbps on their end it's the resulting connection quality from them to your device/media player where most of the issues are.

But seriously, 10 Mbps is a lot of bandwidth and can easily cover 720p/1080p streams in h.264 and absolutely with h.265 without any really big issues overall.


This guy works for Verizon.
 
D

Deleted member 245375

Guest
This guy works for Verizon.

HOW DARE YOU, SIR. I'm retired, I don't work for anybody anymore. ;)

Besides, I use T-Mobile's $30/month plan that no carrier has ever been able to beat, and even though it's no longer available for new subscribers I sure as hell hope they 'grandfather' me and the many other people that use it for years to come.

Work for someone else, that's funny. :p

(if you read the followup post you'd see the reasoning for that one, but then again maybe you wouldn't...)
 

sfsuphysics

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Hopefully killing net neutrality will allow these laws to be fixed soon. Forcing me to pay higher fees so some can enjoy unmetered video streaming services is as absurd as having to pay increasing cable fees to subsidize bad sports and other channels I dont care about each month. Im all in favor of a la carte internet and cable. People watching endless amounts of youtube, netflix and prime video can pay their usage so everyone else can enjoy lower bills. Of course I am saying this as someone who only watches 10+ hours of online video each week.
Ahhh how cute, you believe that the reason why rates are raised is because they some how "need" to be raised, and big companies aren't just using any excuse to increase rates, even cuter you think rates will drop because something something Obama did something quid pro quo it's bad.
 

Flexion

[H]ard|Gawd
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Messages
1,607
Can we plant some drugs on Verizon so they can go to jail?

O wait...

giphy.gif
 

Flexion

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:MiddleFinger: to Verizon and everyone over there. Overpriced as hell. Was with them for a long time. Once T-Mobile unleashed their unlimited 4G LTE, jumped on, haven't looked back. Loving it.

I'm a T-Mobile user too. In major urban areas it's great, but once you're in a suburb speeds are quite bad. Anyways, that's off topic.

I just want to say that T-Mobile does indeed throttle streaming traffic to SD quality (Netflix, Amazon, etc.) and only gives unlimited HD streaming quality with their "one plus plan" which is an additional 5-15 dollars a month. (The article below says $25, but it's currently cheaper at $5 for existing "one plan" users and $15 for new users.)

http://variety.com/2016/digital/news/t-mobile-unlimited-data-plan-video-caps-1201840422/
 

chenw

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Does verizon have a stake in entertainment business, or is it a case of "just because we can (charge)"?
 
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