Venturing into the Realm of WC? Help Please.

King Icewind

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So you may have always been interested in Water Cooling(aka noob at wc). Just never really had the money or the computer worthy of it, but now you do?! :)

I would suggest looking at the "Discouraged by the price of watercooling?" thread, and then you can stumble around on my thread, looking at my nooby questions, and then ask your own.

So these were my initial questions and their answers...

First off, that list does have everything i would need, right? - You bet.
Are there any good alternatives to a cpu block that will fit the 1366 slot without an adapter? The Enzotech Sapphire Rev. A has the best performance for the price. You will need this, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835708048
For all of things that are listed, would it go well with my antec 902 case? - I had to do some case modding, mounted them on the side laying horizontally. I would suggest getting a case that has room for watercooling.
Do you think I would have to do a lot of case modding? - Depends on your case and the rad size.
How about the Scythe Ultra Kaze fans? 3000 ±10% RPM - 133.60 CFM - I wouldn't recommend getting these if you want a quiet computing.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835185054
What about a reservoir? - I used the T-line setup, which consists of a "T" shaped tubing. Cheaper then getting the a reservoir, however the reservoir will help bleed better.
Good GPU blocks? - IDK, didn't get one. [H] is your friend :)
I would like blue neon cables or would black cables look better with my case(lights up blue)? Clear tubing is cheaper, lol.


I'm pretty good at figuring things out...So from what i've seen, its pretty straight forward? Or is there a secret to trade I should be told? Not really. It will all click together...eventually ;)



I've gotten a lot of help, so i thought my thread could help some one else...Hopefully I got my questions answered correctly...I'll post some pics of my rig soon.

KI
 
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0m3g4

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good gpu blocks... hmm well that really depends are you going to go full block?
or just get the gpu block and aircool the ram, and mosfets?
scythe ultra kaze fans, seem load... I have heard good and bad about them. generally speaking you want a fan that can actually push its cfm through the rad that you will be using, 120mm x 38mm fans seem to be the best for this as they have a higher static pressure.
there are some unanswered questions that I have for you.
what are you going for performance or quietness? it seems as though you want it to look "flashy"
that will add to the cost of your loop.
reservoir or t-line? you will have to decide on that, do you want to have a hose hanging around in your case or would you rather mount a res and not have to worry about tucking away another hose?
I personally have used the t-line setup for the last 3 years, no problem with it (its cheaper) and it does the same job, just takes longer to bleed the system of bubbles.
 

King Icewind

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good gpu blocks... hmm well that really depends are you going to go full block?
or just get the gpu block and aircool the ram, and mosfets?
I was planing on just air cooling the ram.
There are some unanswered questions that I have for you.
what are you going for performance or quietness? it seems as though you want it to look "flashy"that will add to the cost of your loop.
Performance, and yes flashy ;) The sound doesn't bother me, its already pretty loud. How much more?
reservoir or t-line? you will have to decide on that, do you want to have a hose hanging around in your case or would you rather mount a res and not have to worry about tucking away another hose?
T line, saving a few bucks is never bad :D
 

galdoes16

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I just got done building my first W/C rig. I did ton's of reading and research, found out what was the best and why. I think that the best CPU block for 1366 is the Heatkiller 3.0, if you are trying to save a few bucks go with the Acetal version. I f you can spare a little more, get the copper one. I bought the copper one, but there is only a 1-2c defference.
 

King Icewind

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I just got done building my first W/C rig. I did ton's of reading and research, found out what was the best and why. I think that the best CPU block for 1366 is the Heatkiller 3.0, if you are trying to save a few bucks go with the Acetal version. I f you can spare a little more, get the copper one. I bought the copper one, but there is only a 1-2c defference.
Where did you do the majority of your research?:D

Thanks
 

galdoes16

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Where did you do the majority of your research?:D

Thanks
I did alot of reading here, and even more over at Extremesystems Liquid Cooling section.

That kit, I don't know about the block, but everything else is great. I would spend a little more and get the Elite kit if you want everything all set out for you.

Also, get a MCres and make the bleeding process 10x easier. What are you looking to cool, and how far of an OC do you want?
 

King Icewind

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Also, get a MCres and make the bleeding process 10x easier. What are you looking to cool, and how far of an OC do you want?
So don't go with the T-line setup?

I would like to cool the cpu at first, with the option to cool the gpu later. As far and safely as I can go ;) ...Would i need to cool nb/sb aswell, if i oced a lot?

Thanks
 

0m3g4

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honestly, even those kits shouldn't be looked at.
mostly because you are going to end up replacing most or some of the parts in there.
Since this is your first loop, I think I would do a t-line (they are easier to bleed the air from, and fill the rad)
reservoirs don't really make a difference in the temp of your loop, it is the same hot liquid sitting in a box without a way for it to displace the heat.
for that kit, you would be fine to cool your cpu (depending on how high you want to o/c) and maybe your n/b, that is about all the heat that radiator would be able to displace.
the pump is a great pump though.
the cpu block is fine, definitely not the best.
this is a radiator that I highly recommend, and I feel that it is very underrated
http://www.dangerden.com/store/black-ice-xtremeiii-radiator.html
I had my q9650 @ 4.3 w/ 1.38v and it kept it @ 72c under full load after 25mins (that means the water was as hot as it was gonna get)
this is the same pump but w/o the speed adjustment
http://www.dangerden.com/store/dd12v-d5_pump-fixed-speed-by-laing.html
I would go with the clearflex tubing as it is cheap and you can color your water and put the cool antikink wrap on it
http://www.dangerden.com/store/clearflex-60-tubing.html
they also have alot of colored tubing.
and finally for the waterblock I think I would go with trying to find a good used d-tek fuzion v1 or v2 here on the forums, just buy one of those... it is not the best cpu block but it is still top 3(and really the top 3 are all within 1-2c of each other).
 

King Icewind

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I don't really want to buy anything used.



How does this look? I just need to add the nuke.
 

galdoes16

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How much is the top limit of your budget? *Remember, the word "Budget" really doesn't exist in W/C.*
 

lollerskater69

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I don't really want to buy anything used.



How does this look? I just need to add the nuke.
Looks excellent. I saw you went with my reccomendations. If you need a free fitting or LGA1366 adapter, look in the combo section with the Enzotech Sapphire.
 

0m3g4

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pt nuke is a waist of money....
use 10% antifreeze with distilled water, and about 3 drops of iodine.
the cpx pro pump is a decent pump, but once again that rad is too small for gpu/cpu cooling, unless you are cooling lower end gpu/cpu.
 

King Icewind

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but once again that rad is too small for gpu/cpu cooling, unless you are cooling lower end gpu/cpu.
Im cooling whats in my sig. Will i really notice that much of a difference for the extra $20?

Thanks :)
 
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galdoes16

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I know that I'm a Noob to W/C, but from my experiance, you get what you pay for. I would say to save a little more and get a higher quality Rad and a Res also.
 

lollerskater69

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pt nuke is a waist of money....
use 10% antifreeze with distilled water, and about 3 drops of iodine.
the cpx pro pump is a decent pump, but once again that rad is too small for gpu/cpu cooling, unless you are cooling lower end gpu/cpu.
Wait, can you back that up? Tht radiator is plenty for a CPU and GPU.
 

lollerskater69

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I know that I'm a Noob to W/C, but from my experiance, you get what you pay for. I would say to save a little more and get a higher quality Rad and a Res also.
You don't always have to use a reservoir. You can use a t-line to fill your loop.

What exactly do you mean by higher quality? HW Labs makes high quality rads. Just because a radiator is cheaper than the others doesn't mean it performs worse. Thickness doesn't always translate into better temps.

Obviously you guys need some edumication. The BIP and Swiftect MCR320 are basically the same rad, so you can draw from the same conclusions. Just take a look at this data:

http://www.realredraider.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=4924
 

lollerskater69

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Yes, the BIP is a great rad. I don't know why those two guys are telling you otherwise. It is comparable to a Swiftech MCR320.

You won't have a problem cooling your system specifications.
 

0m3g4

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Wait, can you back that up? Tht radiator is plenty for a CPU and GPU.
yes, antifreeze and iodine do the same thing, it kills algae and is a biocide.
he said he was going for performance thus, I would think he is going to overclock. I highly doubt that BIP 2 can effectively dissipate that much heat.

What exactly do you mean by higher quality? HW Labs makes high quality rads. Just because a radiator is cheaper than the others doesn't mean it performs worse. Thickness doesn't always translate into better temps.

Obviously you guys need some edumication. The BIP and Swiftect MCR320 are basically the same rad, so you can draw from the same conclusions. Just take a look at this data:

http://www.realredraider.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=4924
I never once mentioned the mcr320, and basically the same and being the same is not the same.
I am just responding to the fact that in the kit he linked to he had a 2 x 120mm rad in there, that is not enough to cool a gpu and overclocked cpu (which both of those are hot), I will agree that the BIP 3 or the mcr320 would be enough.
edit. never mind I looked at another list that he made. and I can barely see that there is a 3 x 120mm rad in there.
Obviously you guys need some edumication.
what was that for, I did no such attacking on you, merely giving my opinion and offering options. that comment seriously was not needed. the OP was asking for advice, you are not the only one with an opinion.
 

King Icewind

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So I made some cutouts of the rad, rad box, and the pump and compared them with my case. The 15in. rad is pretty big, almost as tall as my case lol. There's 2 holes on the back of the Antec 902 case, which i am assuming are for w/c...

With the rad box on the back and the rad over those w/c holes, it covers up the majority of my video card. 1 of the monitor plugins will be useless. :(

So, does any one have any suggestions where i should put this big ol' rad? :D Or would it be at all possible to have two, 2x120 rads with a t-line setup? Or just at all lol

Thanks
 
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echn111

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That BI rad is fine for you considering you were talking about 3000rpm fans. LoL. Sure, the BI series is the worst rad series for people running low RPM fans - just look at the results in that RRR review. It's a terrible review for the BI series, with the reviewer saying how disappointed he is, which is actually in line with most BI reviews I've seen. As for the metrics, even the Swiftech blows away the BI's abysmal performance at 800rpm by a significant margin, and that is bordering on medium RPM. But that's definately not you, so you're fine. In fact, it's a great rad for your situation if you're serious about those fans.

As for the rad location, your Antec case was built for air cooling not water cooling, so maybe just prop the whole thing, including fans, on top of your case. You can use a triple rad then.

You do realise how three 3000rpm fans will sound though? The guy who wrote the review sums it up here: "while it's possible that the HWLabs (i.e. BI) radiators start outperforming the competition at even higher rpms than I tested, I don't see the point in them. Even if you aren't into silent computing, you shouldn't risk your hearing to get optimal temps." And he's only talking about 2000 rpm fans.
 

King Icewind

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You do realise how three 3000rpm fans will sound though? The guy who wrote the review sums it up here: "while it's possible that the HWLabs (i.e. BI) radiators start outperforming the competition at even higher rpms than I tested, I don't see the point in them. Even if you aren't into silent computing, you shouldn't risk your hearing to get optimal temps." And he's only talking about 2000 rpm fans.
Yea, my computer is already pretty loud so it wouldn't bother me that much. Just as long as it performs good. :eek:

I also want it to look good...I'm just not so sure about this look....
Looks like his rad is sticking out more then normal...



Here's a good pic of everything getting covered up in the back :(



So just out of curiousty... two, triple rad's going sideways on the side....? Good bad?
 
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King Icewind

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Well, i've mentioned a lot of different kits and stuff...but I think I've finally come to a decision. It's a little more then i wanted to spend(like 100 more lol) but owell.

So here's what I've picked out.




I plan on putting the rads on the side of my case sideways, which will require some case modding. Gonna be fun :cool:
 
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lollerskater69

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Well, i've mentioned a lot of different kits and stuff...but I think I've finally come to a decision. It's a little more then i wanted to spend(like 100 more lol) but owell.

So here's what I've picked out.




I plan on putting the rads on the side of my case sideways, which will require some case modding. Gonna be fun :cool:
The Enzotech Sapphire is better than the GTZ. I would suggest getting everything from Petra's and Newegg if you can. Between them they should have all you need for you setup.

The older BIP doesn't have the same fin density as the new GTS and GTX radiators. I thought I mentioned this earlier. The BIP III has similar fin density to that of the MCR series by Swiftech
 

lollerskater69

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I've done water cooling a few different ways and the Exos is one of the easiest methods. Though you will pay for the convenience. No question about it.
Most people who find a custom WC setup complex usually completely change their opinions after installation. The main feature I like of the Exos is how you can transfer to other rigs much easier. Some people would rather pay for things like that, like for example you Dan. It's not a bad choice, but if you won't find yourself switching out your WC loop very often I would invest in a custom setup as you can get more cooling power for the money.
 

King Icewind

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The older BIP doesn't have the same fin density as the new GTS and GTX radiators. I thought I mentioned this earlier. The BIP III has similar fin density to that of the MCR series by Swiftech
?

Yes, the BIP is a great rad. I don't know why those two guys are telling you otherwise. It is comparable to a Swiftech MCR320.

You won't have a problem cooling your system specifications.


However, I still changed it to the Stealth GTS 360 Black Ice, and to the enzotech. Now i have to find an adapter? This would work correct? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835708019 That's why I was thinking about the other cpu block because I wouldn't have to mess around with that.

Looks great, but I`m getting the Kolance Exos-2.5
http://www.koolance.com/water-cooling/product_info.php?product_id=792

It looks like this may be a little less work. I`m lazy. :)
It's more expensive then everything I'm getting, and im getting 2 rad's. Also those don't come with tubing, or cpu blocks...?

Anyways,

I drew these out last night, since i plan on putting my radiators on the side of my case, Im not sure where to put the fans...On the outside of the rad or the inside? All of the pics are to scale.




 
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lollerskater69

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I find the Push configuration goves me more static pressure. If you are looking for silence do not buy the GTS. Why are you switching from the BIP?
 

King Icewind

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I was under the impression that I would get better performance from the GTS rads, from your recent posts. If that is not the case then I will switch back and save the $26 :)

I will have 6 fans on the outside, so im not so sure it will make much of a difference lol.

I find the Push configuration goves me more static pressure.
So have the fans on the outside, pushing the air towards my case?

Thanks, I really appreciate the help. :)
 
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BillParrish

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You want less static pressure. Static pressure is the resistance to airflow.

Unless there is about 1/2 inch distance or more between the fans and the rad (use of a shroud) when a fan pushes air at the rad several things are happening and you can actually see it with smoke and a low speed fan. First thing is the air is very turbulent moving almost in a swirling motion as it moves away from the fan. This is due to the rotation of the blades imparting a rotation in the air stream and just the "disturbance" of the blades both pushing and rotating and "chopping" the airflow as it leaves the blades. All this motion is not in-line with the fins. Second is that there is a significant "dead space" right in the middle where the fan hub is. There are on blades there so very little air gets pushed outward from the fan in this area.

Pull creates an area of low pressure behind the fan (in between the fan and the rad) which sucks air uniformly through the rad across the fins with no dead spot and a much more uniform flow. Usually this works best.

Even more important than above is to feed the rad as cool of air as you have available even if it means the rads will be blowing air into your case. I did not look at all the post so not sure what you are up too but the good news is even if you do it completely wrong it will still work well.

Summary,
If possible/convenient it is almost always best to pull cool room air through the rads. I say almost because if the fans are very low speed it matters less and there are always mounting issues to be considered. Sometimes the best way is not the best way.

Looking at your pic above, if I understand it correctly I would flip the bottom fans around to pull and you are good. One push one pull is bad, you even show with your arrows how the warm exhaust from the lower (heat rises) rad could be sucked in by the upper fan. Fans then rad then case with fans pulling air from near the case side panel through the rad and blowing it away from the machine. That would be my first shot. And the good news is that as long as you do not arc weld anything, you can change the configuration fairly easily with longer standoffs different screws etc. if you want to see what a change does. I really like that you are not hung up on hiding the rads. From a temp viewpoint your proposed setup is almost ideal. Only thing better is both on top laying flat but that is impossible as there is not enoubh room.
 
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King Icewind

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Looking at your pic above, if I understand it correctly I would flip the bottom fans around to pull and you are good. One push one pull is bad, you even show with your arrows how the warm exhaust from the lower (heat rises) rad could be sucked in by the upper fan. Fans then rad then case with fans pulling air from near the case side panel through the rad and blowing it away from the machine.
I had the fans on the pics going the other way because I wasn't sure which way to have them. But now I do :).

Yea, i think it will look cooler with my two rads on the side. Going to be a fun build.

Just to clarify...When I attach the fans to my rad, I need to space them about half an inch away?

Thanks for the help.
 

BillParrish

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Just to clarify...When I attach the fans to my rad, I need to space them about half an inch away?

there is some space between the rad and the fan but it varies from rad to rad and usually it is not enough to eliminate the "dead spot" if the fan is pushing. With fans pulling it is not a problem. So you will be good.

One thing I noticed on a recent build was nice foam/rubber gaskets a guy used to ensure a really good seal between the fan and rad. I am fairly certain he made them himself from strips of adhesive backed foam strip insulation you can find at hardware stores. As I mentioned, fans in pull create a uniform low pressure area (think of it as a vacuum) between the fan and the rad that sucks air through the rad. So any leaks around the edges where the fans meet the mounting edges of the rad will allow air to sneak in bypassing going through the rad. So I thought the seals where a smart idea and thought I would mention it. I would not buy any premade etc, a trip to the hardware store is likely in your future anyway and there are all kinds of ways to do it. And its not really critical, but it is a nice job.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j232/OntarioTL/P1010053.jpg
 
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