Vehicle Embedded Data Collection Helping The Repo Man

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rgMekanic

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ZD Net is reporting that a company called ERM Advanced Telematics is looking to provide Buy Here Pay Here dealerships with the tools to help repossess vehicles. Using their new "Parking Habits" service, sensors and software are embedded into StarLink tracking units can show where, and how long a car has been parked, as well as frequency of locations a vehicle has stopped at.

This allows the dealership to use the data to predict where the vehicle is likely to be at any particular time of the day in order to repossess it. In addition it can predict potential payment problems. If it sees your parking habits change, like not parking at your workplace every morning, it may suggest that you have lost your job.

I don't know how to feel about this. I can understand the dealerships point of view for sure, but this seems like an excessive amount of data. Have you ever been to a buy here pay here dealership? If yes the quote below should scare the crap out of you.

When asked how data is stored and protected, the spokesperson said:

"These issues are taken care of by the service provider, the data is stored on his servers under his policy, he is in charge on the data and on the legality of the service."
 
Yeah, if I was a dealer this would be good, but as a consumer I'd wonder where the hell my data was being stored and how safe it was and weather I could disable the collection somehow, esp. if I had a favorite parking spot outside the local XXX store. Well one advantage of driving a 20 year old white pickup...no one cares :). Glad I only buy my cars with all cash. Though you have to wonder how often you're buying a used car in which they forgot to remove the tracking device. And even if you have good credit why wouldn't they use these, even good credit people sometime default and I imagine as these trackers get cheaper they will be come more used. The cops could have fun dipping into that data too.
 
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I had a friend in Florida who was paying around $400 a month for a several-year-old Nissan. She stressed out every month about being able to make the payment. It was nuts. But she was a single mother who absolutely had to have a car, so one of those dealers took advantage of her. I think that's extremely predatory.
 
This really nothing new for these shit hole dealerships. They all put some sort of GPS tracking on their cars no matter the credit. Some places even charge you to install and remove it when it is paid of lol.
 
kju1 said:
Just disconnect the antenna...
Click to expand...


Its not that simple...and I would imagine this is a device like a Lojack in which case the customer won't know where it's mounted even if they wanted to try and deactivate it

The StarLink Tracker comes with:
• Embedded Cellular/GPS antennas
• 2G Quad band GSM or 3G Dual Band modem
• GPS/GLONASS location module
• Cellular jamming detection with text alert feature
Click to expand...
 
Meh, I'd never go to one of those places if I had to... 5-6 years ago A somewhat local one took my grandparents for a ride and screwed them out of quite a bit. They wrecked their mini van and had gotten $3k from the insurance on it, so they went looking, found a car they liked, while it was a bit older ( 1998 Carolla ). Dealer managed to figure out they were willing to put $3k more in cash into something so the car that was realistically worth ~$2,500 became $6,500 and being older, they bought it hook line and sinker.
 
vegeta535 said:
Some places even charge you to install and remove it when it is paid of lol.
Click to expand...

I thought i read a couple/few years back about some place that tried to repo a car that was fully paid off because.. they didnt want to pay the fee to have the device removed, but it was part of the contract when they bought the car.
 
kju1 said:
Then dont buy it.
Click to expand...
Easy to say, but a lot of people are in the situation where it's get a car like that or don't work. Like I said I buy with all cash, but I don't buy things I can't afford. Wouldn't surprise me too if the car makers started including these in all vehicles maybe built right into the main computer. Perhaps with an on/off switch the dealer can access but perhaps not. I'm sure they'd say they collected the data for their agility software practices and is necessary for them to provide better updates in the future.
 
WhoMe said:
Easy to say, but a lot of people are in the situation where it's get a car like that or don't work. Like I said I buy with all cash, but I don't buy things I can't afford. Wouldn't surprise me too if the car makers started including these in all vehicles maybe built right into the main computer. Perhaps with an on/off switch the dealer can access but perhaps not. I'm sure they'd say they collected the data for their agility software practices and is necessary for them to provide better updates in the future.
Click to expand...

First thing I did when I bought my new truck was disable the onstar system. Got a nasty gram from the dealer and I told them to go fuck themselves. Never heard a word back. My loan was through USAA so they have no say in what I do with the thing.
 
kju1 said:
Just disconnect the antenna...
Click to expand...

Something tell me someone with a 400 credit score, and who's dumb enough to be "happy" signing their name to a car note with 10-15%+ interest rate... isn't going to be smart enough to disconnect a system like this
 
The best advice I can give that would directly help against this is to tell young people to never buy a new vehicle. Even if you're car blows up, you have good credit and want to go to the dealership. Don't. Save and own outright. There are a ton of $1,000 cars out there right now that will get you around until you can save enough money. And it doesn't take much to find a good solid car for $5,000 or $6,000 grand that has 70 to 100k miles.

Things are only going to get more intrusive and overbearing with these types of new technologies. On one hand, I'm all for companies being able to reclaim property that a buyer has stopped paying on. Seems more than reasonable. At the same time, I had a car repossessed and it leaves you with a very desperate feeling. My circumstances was that I had both my parents pass away within weeks of one another, totally unrelated. Mother from a massive heart attack and my Dad from a 1 car accident. They suspect he tried to avoid an animal. I was forced to take time off from work, was very depressed. I ended up at the time not showering, brushing my teeth, eating or drinking. I ended up in the hospital due to getting so dehydrated that I could no longer walk. I had suddenly lost all my strength. Anyways, I called the bank, explained what was going on and that I had the money but was simply behind sending / paying bills due to losing both parents. The lady over the phone from the bank told me, "no problem we can give you an extra 14 days."

That weekend, a few days later at around 4am in the morning my truck alarm suddenly went off. A repo guy was taking my truck. The woman had lied to me. I lost my truck. But, took my truck payment, gave it to an attorney and they stopped the truck from going to auction. Got the truck back 2 weeks later and still have it going on 18 years now.

So I am on the fence about these type of technologies. How many single parents lose a job, find a new one and get down to the wire on paying the car note at the last minute? I assure you it happens every minute of everyday across the US.

This tech is going to remove a lot of humanity, right or wrong from the equation.

Same thing is going to happen with car insurance. We are on the very cusp of sensors automatically in-mass being able to pinpoint cars without insurance and alerting law enforcement, tow companies, etc. Eventually you're car will just not start until you're current on payments and insurance. We can all gather back here on the forums in 10 or 15 years and have that discussion then but it is coming.
 
if it isn't your car, it isn't an invasion of privacy. If you don't like the terms of the contract, don't sign it. Get a car you can afford, or deal with these policies.
 
mnewxcv said:
if it isn't your car, it isn't an invasion of privacy. If you don't like the terms of the contract, don't sign it. Get a car you can afford, or deal with these policies.
Click to expand...

This is true. Live to your means and never beyond them. The momentary release of endorphins caused by a purchase is far outweighed by the stress of a purchase you can't afford.

If you need to travel yet can't afford a "good" car, well, back when I was young we had things called "junkers". Junkers taught us so much.
 
"Then don't buy it."

It's great that you don't have to. I don't either. But real life American humans get into situations where they might not have any other options. Job loss, divorce, medical bills, etc.

Try to have some empathy.
 
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Don't they put GPS trackers in them now? So what's the point of predicting where the car is when you know where the car is?
 
Crosshairs said:
Its not that simple...and I would imagine this is a device like a Lojack in which case the customer won't know where it's mounted even if they wanted to try and deactivate it
Click to expand...
It actually is pretty simple to disconnect these types of devices. I've worked in the car industry for 27 years and seen lots of ugliness but in most cases its WELL deserved. Its usually the low of the low credit that gets such devices and deservedly so. Make the payment and the car stays yours. Don't make the payment and its repoed.

Most of the devices are tethered very close to either the OBDII port or the car battery. They have to have constant power in order to tattletale your position. They can and in most cases do cause battery drains as they are usually hooked up wrong and keep the CANBUS awake which will zap a battery down in a day or less. In my personal experience, I saw a lot of BMW and Mercedes purchasers from "Car Lots" or Buy Here, Pay Here type places that would install these. I do not fault them for doing so but in some cases I found out that the customer was never informed of the tracking. So that part is shady. All it takes to render the device dead is a simple 1 wire snip. No power, no tracking.
 
Honestly I understand that people need a car but they shouldn't deal with shit bag dealers. I bitches out a friend for buy a Ford focus from the local shit bag dealer. He was paying $300 a month for a 10 year old car with 100k miles on it... That payment was more then my brand new full loaded fusion I brought around the same time.
 
bbvdd2 said:
It actually is pretty simple to disconnect these types of devices. I've worked in the car industry for 27 years and seen lots of ugliness but in most cases its WELL deserved. Its usually the low of the low credit that gets such devices and deservedly so. Make the payment and the car stays yours. Don't make the payment and its repoed.

Most of the devices are tethered very close to either the OBDII port or the car battery. They have to have constant power in order to tattletale your position. They can and in most cases do cause battery drains as they are usually hooked up wrong and keep the CANBUS awake which will zap a battery down in a day or less. In my personal experience, I saw a lot of BMW and Mercedes purchasers from "Car Lots" or Buy Here, Pay Here type places that would install these. I do not fault them for doing so but in some cases I found out that the customer was never informed of the tracking. So that part is shady. All it takes to render the device dead is a simple 1 wire snip. No power, no tracking.
Click to expand...
It is not something simple to the common person. I would also assume that they will come after if they see it not transmitting. You need to read those contracts closely cause they can null tthe contract and repo it. Losing your car and all the payment you made.
 
Kinda bullshit on the privacy part.

Having worked at a BHPH dealership that used Goldstar and Skypatrol tracking systems (we didn't deliver a car without a tracker installed), people at the dealership level had full access to all the tracking information, and it was secured behind a simple browser login (usually found on a post-it near the monitor, if it wasn't stored by the browser or the IOS/Android app).

We had a case where one of our detailers was accused of stalking an attractive young female customer (he had to have full access because he installed the systems), and it wasn't uncommon for employees to look into somebody's history just for the fun of it. We've had husbands and wives want us to track the other, we've had customers come to us to track cars they "loaned" to somebody who never returned it (and since it was loaned, the cops can't do anything).

As far as capabilities, we had a breadcrumb mode that would store weeks or even years worth of data...every time the car was started, where it moved, how fast it went, how long it sat idle, vehicle battery voltage, the works. Made repos pretty easy, both local and out of state. We've had that capability for years, this is nothing new, and since it's a competitive subscription-based service, the plethora of providers were constantly adding new features, ease of use, etc to the front-end software. We'd install the GPS before putting the vehicle up for sale, and when it was delivered, we'd enter in all the customer particulars, up to and including DL numbers, tag numbers, addresses, DOB, etc (no SSN though) which was stored by the provider, giving them full access to all that data too.

We only removed the tracker after the car was paid off, but there's quite a few cars out there where the customer didn't bother to come get the device removed, and they can still be tracked. We've had the police come to us knowing we had the trackers to use in investigations (most recently a murder, where the victim was one of our customers).

Regarding customers removing the devices, if the device was disconnected we got an alert (and knew WHERE it was removed) and that was grounds for immediate repossession. We made it a point to let the customers know in advance that tampering with the device would lead to a default. And of course, we were required by law to inform them that we were tracking our vehicles.

Our installs were pretty clean, the more modern devices will wake up to ping occasionally when not getting accessory power (bypassing the relay), but we're talking a few seconds per hour when the ignition is switched off. And they were creatively located depending on the car model, and took our installers about 20 minutes to remove even knowing where and how they were wired.

And yeah, it's kinda sucky that we had to do that, but BHPH customers are high risk for a reason, and the GPS trackers helped keep losses lower, and that let us put more people in decent (yes, really) cars with lower down payments and with looser income requirements. It also let us keep people from losing their driver's license because they had lapsed insurance (grounds for a repo until coverage was restored). If we had the car, we reported it off the road, and the state didn't suspend the customer's licence.

Oh, and vegeta535 ? A person with a sub-500 FICO ain't going to get a new Fusion (hell, a new Fiesta!) for $300 month because manufacturer and bank financing just won't touch them. As I mentioned, there's a host of reasons somebody has shit credit, but once they have it, BHPH (with a decent dealer) ain't a bad way to go. And it's only going to get worse, the sub-prime financing for 500-600 score customers on new cars is drying up (again, shades of 2009), and even cheap Hyundai, Kia and Nissans are getting hard to get with a score below 650 without a hefty down payment (and state-maximum interest rates).
 
Last edited:
Wyodiver said:
I had a friend in Florida who was paying around $400 a month for a several-year-old Nissan. She stressed out every month about being able to make the payment. It was nuts. But she was a single mother who absolutely had to have a car, so one of those dealers took advantage of her. I think that's extremely predatory.
Click to expand...

She must have had really bad credit, or was majorly taken advantage of.

The last car I bought was a new top of the line Camry hybrid.
They wouldn't give me dirt for my 11 year old car in trade, so I asked how much they would let me finance (they had a special 0% for 5 years deal).
They let me finance the entire amount, even the taxes and registration. I figured why not since I get to use their money for 5 years.
Payment was $497, not much more than that several-year-old Nissan you friend bought.
But unlike your friend, I could have paid cash for the car, and I also have excellent credit.

This is why you get a good education, work hard, live within your means and save.
Cash in the bank, and a good credit rating lowers your cost of living.
You get lower interest rates, cash back credit cards, and you get to take advantage of deals like my 0% rate.


SixFootDuo said:
The best advice I can give that would directly help against this is to tell young people to never buy a new vehicle. Even if you're car blows up, you have good credit and want to go to the dealership. Don't. Save and own outright. There are a ton of $1,000 cars out there right now that will get you around until you can save enough money. And it doesn't take much to find a good solid car for $5,000 or $6,000 grand that has 70 to 100k miles.
Click to expand...

My first car was used, had over 50,000 miles (back when they didn't last much longer than that), and cost less then $3k out the door.
Got me through college and into my first real job.

Once I started making decent money, I preferred to by new and keep the cars until they start having problems.
Years ago that was 5-6 years, now it's 10+.
I sold my previous car after 11 years. It was never in the shop except for tires and oil changes.
Wife currently drives a 12 year old car, and we'll likely keep it for another 6 years, until the kid gets out of college.

People ask me if I have a good mechanic, and I say no, I have a Toyota so I don't need one :p
 
bbvdd2 said:
It actually is pretty simple to disconnect these types of devices. I've worked in the car industry for 27 years and seen lots of ugliness but in most cases its WELL deserved. Its usually the low of the low credit that gets such devices and deservedly so. Make the payment and the car stays yours. Don't make the payment and its repoed.

Most of the devices are tethered very close to either the OBDII port or the car battery. They have to have constant power in order to tattletale your position. They can and in most cases do cause battery drains as they are usually hooked up wrong and keep the CANBUS awake which will zap a battery down in a day or less. In my personal experience, I saw a lot of BMW and Mercedes purchasers from "Car Lots" or Buy Here, Pay Here type places that would install these. I do not fault them for doing so but in some cases I found out that the customer was never informed of the tracking. So that part is shady. All it takes to render the device dead is a simple 1 wire snip. No power, no tracking.
Click to expand...


BMW's and Mercedes, that's all you need to know. People making bad decisions to keep up with the Jones.
Anyone who goes to one of these questionable car lots to buy a fancy luxury car, can't really afford one, or afford the maintenance.

Instead of buying something low cost & practical, they end up with a fancy car that the real dealers wouldn't sell due to likely problems.
These cars are also more expensive to repair than your basic Honda or Toyota.

Try looking up the bluebook value after 10 years. That $50,000 BMW is probably worth less than that $25,000 Toyota or Honda.
 
nutzo said:
She must have had really bad credit, or was majorly taken advantage of.

The last car I bought was a new top of the line Camry hybrid.
They wouldn't give me dirt for my 11 year old car in trade, so I asked how much they would let me finance (they had a special 0% for 5 years deal).
They let me finance the entire amount, even the taxes and registration. I figured why not since I get to use their money for 5 years.
Payment was $497, not much more than that several-year-old Nissan you friend bought.
But unlike your friend, I could have paid cash for the car, and I also have excellent credit.

This is why you get a good education, work hard, live within your means and save.
Cash in the bank, and a good credit rating lowers your cost of living.
You get lower interest rates, cash back credit cards, and you get to take advantage of deals like my 0% rate.




My first car was used, had over 50,000 miles (back when they didn't last much longer than that), and cost less then $3k out the door.
Got me through college and into my first real job.

Once I started making decent money, I preferred to by new and keep the cars until they start having problems.
Years ago that was 5-6 years, now it's 10+.
I sold my previous car after 11 years. It was never in the shop except for tires and oil changes.
Wife currently drives a 12 year old car, and we'll likely keep it for another 6 years, until the kid gets out of college.

People ask me if I have a good mechanic, and I say no, I have a Toyota so I don't need one :p
Click to expand...


That's great. But you are clueless. You look down on people, and you lack empathy. I'm guessing that you are a Trump supporter, am I right? Come on, stand up! Be proud of the Trump Nation!
 
Have you ever been to a buy here pay here dealership?
Click to expand...
No, if it's what I think it is, they're kinda like payday loan centers in their predatory nature. They get people in to put a down payment on a car, drive it off, and they bank on the fact that many of these people will not be able to keep up with payments. Their contracts often don't allow for much leeway in terms of how long you can go before they take it. Because they force tracking units (and/or seize units which prevent the car from starting), they can act quick. They then repossess the car and rinse/repeat.

Some cars can go through 10 different owners. Not because the people were bad, but because they couldn't keep up with the interest.

As an added F-U, if you happen to pay off the car, they may even charge you to remove the tracking unit. If you don't, they disable the car until you pay them.
 
Wyodiver said:
That's great. But you are clueless. You look down on people, and you lack empathy. I'm guessing that you are a Trump supporter, am I right? Come on, stand up! Be proud of the Trump Nation!
Click to expand...

And who is the one making assumption and looking down on someone they know nothing about?

By being responsible, working hard, being frugal with my money, and taking care of my own family, I'm not a burden on others.
It also allows me the luxury of supporting charities that help people in need.
How many thousands did you donate to charitable causes last year?

Oh wait, you must be one of those Hillary supporters that wants to raise everyone else's taxes so you can get more free stuff. :rolleyes:
 
Wyodiver said:
That's great. But you are clueless. You look down on people, and you lack empathy. I'm guessing that you are a Trump supporter, am I right? Come on, stand up! Be proud of the Trump Nation!
Click to expand...

You keep using that word "empathy" - but when it comes to money and running a profitable business that's what you shouldn't have. I'd love to see how long your car dealership would last if you catered to the poor/uneducated/shitty financial decision makers. One of the sad truths in life is that there exists people out there who no matter how many chances you give them, how many breaks you cut them, how much help you give them... will still shit all over you the instant they can. Real life has consequences for your actions.

If there's a 85% chance that your customer is making a shit financial decision, won't pay as agreed, or will hide/steal the car, what do you honestly expect? There's a very good reason why someone with sub-500 credit score will have to deal with hurdles like this. You don't get a crappy credit score from paying a credit card bill late once, it's consistent failure to live up to obligations they agreed to in the past coming back to bite them in the ass.

The fact that you had to drag politics in this shows me (and everyone else) how weak your position is from a logic standpoint.
 
Spidey329 said:
No, if it's what I think it is, they're kinda like payday loan centers in their predatory nature. They get people in to put a down payment on a car, drive it off, and they bank on the fact that many of these people will not be able to keep up with payments. Their contracts often don't allow for much leeway in terms of how long you can go before they take it. Because they force tracking units (and/or seize units which prevent the car from starting), they can act quick. They then repossess the car and rinse/repeat.

Some cars can go through 10 different owners. Not because the people were bad, but because they couldn't keep up with the interest.

As an added F-U, if you happen to pay off the car, they may even charge you to remove the tracking unit. If you don't, they disable the car until you pay them.
Click to expand...

For most BHPH dealerships, a repo is often a failure, not a money-making opportunity. With 800-1000 active accounts at any given time, we had four full-time employees who did nothing but phone calls, to keep on top of late payments and lapsed insurance. They'd set up payment arrangements for the late payers, try to work out insurance problems, etc. Repossessions were a last resort. We'd much rather have the owner pay the vehicle off because it was more profit, far more profit, than flipping the same car several times.

Why keep them in the cars, you might ask? Because those cars we did repo were almost never lot-ready when we got them back, and most of the profit on a BHPH deal is from the interest on a full-term loan. Customers can (and often DO) totally trash a car from neglect and abuse, so it can take both time and money to recondition a repo for sale, not unusual for cars to come back on the hook so messed up they had no resale value. It was uncommon to sell the same car more than once, rare to sell it more than twice, and I can only remember a handful of the thousands of cars we sold that we sold three times or more (and for some reason, most of those were Chrysler 300s).

It's also a very, very competitive business, and your best tool for attracting customers is word-of-mouth advertising/referrals and repeat business. You don't get either of those being scumbags.

Obviously, I have some bias, so take this with a grain of salt, and not all BHPH dealerships are created equal. Ours has been in business for 20 years.

I have to question your "keeping up with the interest" statement. What do you mean by that? We're not talking some sort of mobster vig here, the payments are fixed monthly (with fixed APR), and late fees don't pile up that big (and are often waived). Our highest monthly payment was $400, and that was on late model/low mileage/high demand vehicles which also had hefty down payment requirements. The biggest source of default besides poor money management or misfortune usually related to folks not being able to maintain full coverage insurance (or any insurance), and that was outside of our control. You want to talk about a predatory industry, you might want to talk about auto insurance.

EDIT: There was no charge for the removal of trackers, but we didn't submit a lien release to the DMV for a clear title until the tracker was removed. That wasn't so much a punitive measure as it was a protective measure...as long as we were lienholders, the tracker was legal.
 
kju1 said:
First thing I did when I bought my new truck was disable the onstar system. Got a nasty gram from the dealer and I told them to go fuck themselves. Never heard a word back. My loan was through USAA so they have no say in what I do with the thing.
Click to expand...

Onstar is why I have never considered a GM product
 
Crosshairs said:
Its not that simple...and I would imagine this is a device like a Lojack in which case the customer won't know where it's mounted even if they wanted to try and deactivate it
Click to expand...
If you are car savvy, it's as simple as a service manual to reference and checking the obvious places. Most are engine bay or front bumper, wheel wells etc.
 
N4CR said:
If you are car savvy, it's as simple as a service manual to reference and checking the obvious places. Most are engine bay or front bumper, wheel wells etc.
Click to expand...


If your car savvy, your not buying a car at a buy here pay here...and these units are almost always buried deep in the dashboard or underneath a center console.
All of the ones I have see are non descript electronic boxes that could easily be part of the cars OEM systems. ... a normal person would look right at it and not know what it was so a customer removing it themselves is almost never going to happen.
 
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Croak said:
Kinda bullshit on the privacy part.

Having worked at a BHPH dealership that used Goldstar and Skypatrol tracking systems (we didn't deliver a car without a tracker installed), people at the dealership level had full access to all the tracking information, and it was secured behind a simple browser login (usually found on a post-it near the monitor, if it wasn't stored by the browser or the IOS/Android app).

We had a case where one of our detailers was accused of stalking an attractive young female customer (he had to have full access because he installed the systems), and it wasn't uncommon for employees to look into somebody's history just for the fun of it. We've had husbands and wives want us to track the other, we've had customers come to us to track cars they "loaned" to somebody who never returned it (and since it was loaned, the cops can't do anything).

As far as capabilities, we had a breadcrumb mode that would store weeks or even years worth of data...every time the car was started, where it moved, how fast it went, how long it sat idle, vehicle battery voltage, the works. Made repos pretty easy, both local and out of state. We've had that capability for years, this is nothing new, and since it's a competitive subscription-based service, the plethora of providers were constantly adding new features, ease of use, etc to the front-end software. We'd install the GPS before putting the vehicle up for sale, and when it was delivered, we'd enter in all the customer particulars, up to and including DL numbers, tag numbers, addresses, DOB, etc (no SSN though) which was stored by the provider, giving them full access to all that data too.

We only removed the tracker after the car was paid off, but there's quite a few cars out there where the customer didn't bother to come get the device removed, and they can still be tracked. We've had the police come to us knowing we had the trackers to use in investigations (most recently a murder, where the victim was one of our customers).

Regarding customers removing the devices, if the device was disconnected we got an alert (and knew WHERE it was removed) and that was grounds for immediate repossession. We made it a point to let the customers know in advance that tampering with the device would lead to a default. And of course, we were required by law to inform them that we were tracking our vehicles.

Our installs were pretty clean, the more modern devices will wake up to ping occasionally when not getting accessory power (bypassing the relay), but we're talking a few seconds per hour when the ignition is switched off. And they were creatively located depending on the car model, and took our installers about 20 minutes to remove even knowing where and how they were wired.

And yeah, it's kinda sucky that we had to do that, but BHPH customers are high risk for a reason, and the GPS trackers helped keep losses lower, and that let us put more people in decent (yes, really) cars with lower down payments and with looser income requirements. It also let us keep people from losing their driver's license because they had lapsed insurance (grounds for a repo until coverage was restored). If we had the car, we reported it off the road, and the state didn't suspend the customer's licence.

Oh, and vegeta535 ? A person with a sub-500 FICO ain't going to get a new Fusion (hell, a new Fiesta!) for $300 month because manufacturer and bank financing just won't touch them. As I mentioned, there's a host of reasons somebody has shit credit, but once they have it, BHPH (with a decent dealer) ain't a bad way to go. And it's only going to get worse, the sub-prime financing for 500-600 score customers on new cars is drying up (again, shades of 2009), and even cheap Hyundai, Kia and Nissans are getting hard to get with a score below 650 without a hefty down payment (and state-maximum interest rates).
Click to expand...



nice read.


thanks
 
Buy a car you can afford and you won't have to deal with shitbags like this. Oh you are poor and don't want to buy an old "Get me by car" from an individual? Well tough shit cupcake. Try making the responsible decision for once in your life and it might start you on the road to not being poor and driving a shitty car. Keep making irresponsible decisions like buying shit you can't afford and continue the downward spiral.
 
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