Vega's Perfect Motion Clarity 2D Lightboost Titan Portrait Surround Gloss Build

That's them! They work great, not sure how you can manufacture, ship and re-sell cables like that for $11. ;)
 
clayton006 said:
Did a little Crysis 3 myself before coming in to work this morning. At 7680x1600 stayed in the low 50's and very high 40's on some outdoor and indoor scenes. Used SMAA Low and High for Shading (instead of very high). It was really fluid (thought it was actually 60fps, till I looked). Impressed with my little machine. I imagine with Titans instead of 670's I could have maxed out the graphics.
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you have such a beefy system and a single 670 4gb? something doesnt fit
 
Vega said:
That's them! They work great, not sure how you can manufacture, ship and re-sell cables like that for $11. ;)
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That a great deal Vega. Will jump on 3 of those myself.

I have 4 670's that I put in multiple computers when my friends come over. When they aren't around I put them all back in my 3930k system.
 
clayton006 said:
I have 4 670's that I put in multiple computers when my friends come over. When they aren't around I put them all back in my 3930k system.
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That's an interesting idea. Temporarily consoldating multiple computer's GPU's when the other computers in the same household aren't in use. Especially if you've left them open-side computer cases, for quick swap-in/swap-outs.
 
Vega said:
That's them! They work great, not sure how you can manufacture, ship and re-sell cables like that for $11. ;)
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Mark Rejhon said:
That's an interesting idea. Temporarily consoldating multiple computer's GPU's when the other computers in the same household aren't in use. Especially if you've left them open-side computer cases, for quick swap-in/swap-outs.
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Ill try not to thread jack too much more here.
Yeah the extra computers are most for my friends when they come over. Trying to get them off of console gaming. So when I have a monthly gaming night I split the cards up. It's nice because the integrated video is there as well so I can boot the computers up without the 670s and still run updates and backups and all that.

Eventually I'll get four of the next top dog cards and put the four 670s in the other computers and slowly trickle down the hardware over yearly cycles.
 
clayton006 said:
Yeah the extra computers are most for my friends when they come over. Trying to get them off of console gaming.
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The law should be changed so that trying to wean people off console gaming counts as charity and is tax deductible etc :)
 
It would be nice if gpu's slapped onto side of motherboard tray externally, like a big cartridge... with their own power supply. Then you could swap between pc's on the fly, including laptops. It would also help keep some heat outside of the case and keep some of the power demands separate. A 4x setup like vega's might require some kind of daughterboard though.

Unfortunately, people think you have to play pc games at the arbitrary max graphics ceiling of any current game release generation (which takes $1k or more in gpus at 1080p currently to get high fps at 120hz). The ceiling is an arbitrary carrot leading you. Its awesome if you can hit that ceiling, or do so in as extreme a manner (hardware, effort, and large monetary cost) as vega does, but it is not necessary. At much lower settings, pc gaming is still far superior to console gaming (on good pc games) in graphics quality, motion tracking (high hz output to high hz input monitors that consoles lack) , accuracy, adaptability, control accuracy and pure control code, hitboxes and aiming code, latency and code, level of interface refinement, input capability, modding, servers and server selection details, dedicated servers, etc. For mmo's and rts by the natue of pc's they are also much more suitable in control schemes and interfaces, as well as ability to set up mod keys and custom controls to map a ton of abilities and functions intuitively.
 
Would be interesting to start another thread on this topic as I tend to agree with some points. Although I enjoy building a high end rig.
 
Yep. Didn't intend for a total derail. In relation to vega, his setup's like this one are usually what amounts to leaping ahead years in resolution and gpu power at high fps compared to ordinary pc gaming setups and are amazing. Since it had come up, I had just wanted to say that uber setups don't have to define pc gaming in a comparison to consoles. "Regular" pc gaming rigs are still far superior to console gaming quality even at 1080p at modest graphics settings imo. ;)
 
beautiful stuff Vega.

I've a question for you. If you could have an indefinite supply of grade A+ FW900's, would you still opt for the route you've taken? If so, would it be because you can game at 1080p @ 120hz (whereas FW900 doesn't support 120hz at that resolution)?

Or for other reasons?
 
holy crap, just went through that thread. Absolutely insane amounts of skill, patience, knowledge... and props to Vega for being honest enough with himself to ditch the setup once he realized it wasn't optimal. A lot of people wouldn't be able to overcome the cognitive dissonance to do that.

And I think I have my answer now - I'm assuming Vega still finds the FW900 king for single display gaming.
 
spacediver said:
holy crap, just went through that thread. Absolutely insane amounts of skill, patience, knowledge... and props to Vega for being honest enough with himself to ditch the setup once he realized it wasn't optimal. A lot of people wouldn't be able to overcome the cognitive dissonance to do that.

And I think I have my answer now - I'm assuming Vega still finds the FW900 king for single display gaming.
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Fortunately, it's become much simpler to enable LightBoost, and will only become simpler, either by nVidia or by third party.
 
yes, but as has often been discussed, there are other advantages of a high end CRT over lightboost, most notably picture quality.
 
spacediver said:
holy crap, just went through that thread. Absolutely insane amounts of skill, patience, knowledge... and props to Vega for being honest enough with himself to ditch the setup once he realized it wasn't optimal. A lot of people wouldn't be able to overcome the cognitive dissonance to do that.

And I think I have my answer now - I'm assuming Vega still finds the FW900 king for single display gaming.
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My Sony FW900 has been sitting in the closet collecting dust ever since I got my Asus VG248QE with the AG coating removed from Vega. These displays look a million times better once the AG has been removed and I am in the process of doing a 3x1 setup like Vega.

Lightboost has been a game changer for me, I sold all three of my 2560x1440 130hz Catleap 2B displays and do not miss them at all :eek:
 
thanks for sharing your experience l88... I use my monitor for quakelive, programming, web, image processing, and movies, and I find the FW900 to be a treat for all of them.

I imagine being able to play at 1440 at 120hz+ must be a very cool experience though :)

btw my alias is "julios" on quakelive if anyone else here plays.
 
spacediver said:
yes, but as has often been discussed, there are other advantages of a high end CRT over lightboost, most notably picture quality.
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A well-calibrated brand-new FW900 will probably knock the socks off a LightBoost display, but most FW900's are at least slightly aged, and it's finally achievable/possible for a LightBoost display to become preferable over a Sony FW900.

This is a rough picture of the pros/cons:

LightBoost LCD +/-
+ lack of motion blur
+ crispness
+ geometry
+ convergence
+ astigmatism
+ focus
+ easy maintenance
+ keeps calibration once calibrated
+ more multi-display friendly, less bezel
- color (but acceptable if calibrated)
- black level
- sometimes hard to setup LightBoost
- only one native resolution (but that may not matter)
- low brightness during LightBoost 10% (some like this, some don't)
- LightBoost artifacts (only on some models like the V278HE with the 'E' or older XL2420T)

CRT +/-
+ lack of motion blur
+ color / contrast (unless very old CRT)
+ black level (unless very old CRT that no longer does galactic-quality blacks)
+ native resolution at all resolutions
+ brightness (with new CRT, versus LightBoost.)
- brightness (with worn CRT, versus LightBoost.)
- crispness
- convergence (old CRT, not calibrated)
- astigmatism (old CRT)
- focus (old CRT), especially corners
- loses calibrated to temperature changes/wear tear
- heavy, hard to move
- green ghosting (for medium-persistence phosphor found on FW900)

Yes, there's more +/- beyond the above but you begin to get the idea...
The high-ranked attributes, LCD crispness + combined with zero motion blur, (especially if you don't mind a bit of degradation of color quality compared to a well-maintained FW900) and the very easy perfect geometry of LCD can outweigh a few other CRT advantages. Many FW900's are getting old and are starting to be a royal PITA to keep running at quality better than a LightBoost LCD, so it's just simpler to send off that old FW900 that's starting to fall apart in quality, to the golden bitbucket in the sky (a.k.a. responsible domestic electronics recycler) or sell off as spare parts for fellow FW900 users.
 
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aye, completely agree. I'd also add that while the static contrast of crts are phenomenal, their checkerboard contrasts aren't particularly great. The lighter areas can "bleed" over to the darker areas.

As for the aging issue, that's why I phrased my original question:

"If you could have an indefinite supply of grade A+ FW900's"
 
I've got an FW900 with only 2000 hours on the clock (was in storage for years). I don't yet have a Lightboost display to compare, but my 120hz VG236he is now being used as a secondary.

The reason? Input lag.

While the VG236he supposedly measures only 3ms, the difference compared to a CRT is astounding. This input lag is caused by motion blur and the sample hold effect. From what I've heard, Lightboost removes this visual perception and the small amount of input lag becomes unnoticeable.

Now, if I could get a glossy Asus shipped to the UK for a decent price I'd do a comparison... :)
 
Mark Rejhon said:
*Snip*
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This is exactly why I gave up trying to buy a FW900. Either I wouldn't get one in the right condition that wasn't around $800+ or the shipping costs were murder but even if I do there are so many other issues that can arise just trying to get the FW900 in its best condition. I've seen a fully working FW900 in person that was very well taken care of and it looked amazing but all that effort just didn't seem worth it to me personally. Plus running 3 of these suckers in my room would likely trip my breaker since I would be running a windows AC as well.

Lets all face it , motion clarity is what we all ultimately want above everything else. Vega realized this and it makes sense.
 
The FW900 has a fabulous picture, but it's just too small for me. 22.5" viewable and no reasonable way to multi-screen them.
 
Vega said:
The FW900 has a fabulous picture, but it's just too small for me. 22.5" viewable and no reasonable way to multi-screen them.
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CRT's beyond 22.5 for computers and beyond 36" for TV's were extremely rare. I purchased a 34" NetTV DTV34 in year 1998 to attempt to get the big-screen VGA image (non-interlaced), for $1600. But that turned out to be a disaster. I managed to get my money back, and recycled the money (and then some) to purchase a high end CRT projector back in year 1999 -- a ultra high end NEC multisync XG135LC CRT projector with MSRP $23,995 (but I paid only one-fifth the price as a B-stock refurb!) -- and a 92" projection screen. This was capable of 135Khz horiziontal scanrate. That's 1080p compatible. At 120Hz refresh rate. Yes, 1080p at 120Hz in year 1999 (126Khz scanrate). Could do 2500x2000! One of the world's most capable CRT projectors for it day. Though practically, I never pushed it beyond 1920x1080. I could push 800x600 to an astounding 160Hz vertical refresh rate. This was a 92 inch Sony GDM-W900 equivalent! It was even 3D compatible! The next year, I got an ASUS V7700 Geforce2 GTS 3D kit. That's old 60Hz 3D shutter glasses -- 30Hz/30Hz per eye! Played Star Wars Episode Racer, 600 miles per hour, 4 feet above the ground, in full stereoscopic 3D, full framerate, on a 92 inch CRT projection! This is a CRT projector capable of 1080p -- at 120Hz to boot! -- back in the 1990's! I got it in March 1999 and used it for many years after that, long before digital projectors became commonplace. I played video games at 800x600 at 120Hz at 92 inches, with far less motion blur than today's LCD, the GTS was able to cap out at 120 frames per second in Quake 3 Arena. Even when I resold the projector a few years later when I moved, I managed to recoup 80% of my purchase price since I took good care of it! Resold it for only $700 less than my original purchase price.

It was so bleeding edge, it was necessary to carefully purchase the right graphics card, and use PowerStrip to create custom widescreen Windows desktop resolutions. Even so, most games of that era did not support widescreen, but that didn't matter because this was a completely multisync CRT projector with no specific native resolution. The sweet spot was 1280x720, however 1920x1080 was definitely a very useable Windows desktop.

pdrm0338.jpg

My system before installation -- 100 pound projector mounted to concrete ceiling.

pdrm0370.jpg

My masterpiece, displaying a wall sized Windows desktop in CRT clarity. In year 1999. Ready for action!
(From my very old legacy website -- www.marky.com/hometheater )

Imagine the Sony GDM-W900. Now imagine it at 92 inches. :D

Mind you, it was heaven whenever it performed. You can still buy these for about $800 at places like curtpalme.com but it takes hours and hours to maintain, fix & calibrate these projectors, especially when a tube fails, gets worn, etc. It's also not as bright as today's digitals, so you definitely need total light control. An old, aged CRT projector is almost as troublesome as owning a small airplane -- huge maintenance headache -- especially at retubing time (replacing worn projection CRT's is harder than replacing a bulb). But mine was brand new tubes (refurbished) so I got a fairly bright picture. Re-calibration was necessary every few months, to keep tiptop picture. Today's digitals eliminate the majority of that hassle, but you give up a the perfect motion clarity of CRT.
 
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Haha nice! I remember those projectors. Were like an arm chair hanging from your ceiling. ;)
 
Vega said:
The FW900 has a fabulous picture, but it's just too small for me. 22.5" viewable and no reasonable way to multi-screen them.
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Well...no one can say you didn't try to multi-screen them. :)

For computer...it's small, but I don't think I could give up image quality of GDM-F520. (Completely addicted to its blacks and dynamic range.) Though would definitely go big and probably multi-panel if I did...

I do like the idea of projection for big screen. Especially something that would hide the pixel structure...
 
very nice setup Mark. Must have been a treat to show it off :)

I sometimes wonder about how an alien species would view CRT vs LCD technology. When I first learned about how CRTs work, it was absolutely mind blowing - I always had it in my head that the beam was controlled by a moving part that just moved really fast. That didn't make sense in my head when I considered the number of pixels and refresh rates, so it was a mystery to me. When I learned that it uses electromagnetic fields to direct the electrons, it just blew my socks off. I think there's something utterly remarkable about that.

LCDs on the other hand are extremely cool too - using electricity to interact with molecular structures which control whether light passes through them - an amazing feat of engineering.

Very hard to compare the two technologies in terms of "advancement". But on a coolness factor, I think the CRT technology hits that wow spot with a bit more oomph.
 
This is what my CRT projector (back in 1999) looked like in its old temporary rear-sofa mount, before I mounted it to the ceiling:
pdrm0223.jpg


This was after I mounted it to the ceiling:
pdrm0351.jpg


Now, imagine sitting under that 100 pound projector. But, don't worry, I used a whopping 6 expanding concrete anchors -- when I only needed 4. I could swing my whole body weight under just one concrete anchor (I actually did a swing test with 2 people hanging from the ceiling!). So it would have held up under a Ritcher 9 earthquake unless the building collapsed first.

In the picture shows only a bit less than half my former DVD collection. Back in that day three years after DVD players got released, I had 500 DVD's, a lot of them purchased using Amazon coupons (dot com promotions, manage to average $8 per DVD in many dot-com-boom loss leader sales when the discs cost $25-$30 at stores).

Good old days. I was only 25 years old when I got that beast on the ceiling. Zero motion blur goodness on a wall size screen.
 
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Mark Rejhon said:
This is what my CRT projector (back in 1999) looked like in its old temporary rear-sofa mount, before I mounted it to the ceiling:
pdrm0223.jpg


This was after I mounted it to the ceiling:
pdrm0351.jpg


Now, imagine sitting under that 100 pound projector. But, don't worry, I used a whopping 6 expanding concrete anchors -- when I only needed 4. I could swing my whole body weight under just one concrete anchor (I actually did a swing test with 2 people hanging from the ceiling!). So it would have held up under a Ritcher 9 earthquake unless the building collapsed first.

In the picture shows only a bit less than half my former DVD collection. Back in that day three years after DVD players got released, I had 500 DVD's, a lot of them purchased using Amazon coupons (dot com promotions, manage to average $8 per DVD in many dot-com-boom loss leader sales when the discs cost $25-$30 at stores).

Good old days. I was only 25 years old when I got that beast on the ceiling. Zero motion blur goodness on a wall size screen.
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Nice indeed.

Watched the original "War of the Worlds" last year. For some reason, your behind couch arrangement made me recall that movie...
 
So vega any numbers you can share wrt titan scaling before you sell that 4th card?
 
I don't have any exact numbers, but the only two games that can use the 4th Titan are Farcry3 and Crysis 3 maxed out. Everything else is CPU limited. Two cards play 50+% games fine, I'd say another 35% use a 3rd card and the 4th rarely. Just too much powa. :)
 
Vega said:
I don't have any exact numbers, but the only two games that can use the 4th Titan are Farcry3 and Crysis 3 maxed out. Everything else is CPU limited. Two cards play 50+% games fine, I'd say another 35% use a 3rd card and the 4th rarely. Just too much powa. :)
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Do you think a higher clocked haswell would help then even though you'd have the PLX trade off? Are you CPU limiting ever before 120fps or are we always talking 170+ where it limits?
 
Depends on the game really. Like in Darkfall unholy wars there is some areas in cities with a lot of people my Titans are twiddling their thumbs and my CPU is maxed below 120 FPS. That spoils Lightboost so I am in the search of min 120 FPS everywhere. If I can get a Haswell up to 5.3-5.4 GHz combined with the IPC increase I could see a ~10-20% FPS gain from CPU. PLX isn't that bad because it only takes 1-2% off the top of GPU usage, not CPU usage. I've got plenty of GPU. :)
 
Thinking of trying your current setup with Ivy Bridge E whenever it decides to show up.
Vega, I may have to send you a PM, but I just bought 3 of the same monitors as you have and I'm thinking about removing the AG filter if it is worth it. Was also thinking about removing the bezel but I may want to use them in landscape at some point so I may hold off.

Have any tips on removing the filter?
 
My tips for removing the AG filter is to send the displays to Vega and let him do it. I completely ruined one display and gimped another display into serious condition by trying to do it myself. Apparently I had won the MEGA-GLUE lottery that some of the Asus displays come with now
 
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