Vega Rumors

Bankie said:
A couple of things though. I'm betting that NV has a lot more room to drop the price of the 1070 and 1080, and I'm not sure it's even feasible for AMD to sell the first iteration of Vega with HBM2 for $350.
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not even Fury X reached those prices after 1070/1080 launch. so yeah. Im expecting the same 549$ - 649$ I said last year..
 
Very disappointing results, if I'm reading the PCPer review correctly.

Hopefully for AMD's sake, they screwed the drivers or sandbagged this card, or something. If not, then it's a major fail. Guess we'll know in a month...
 
DuronBurgerMan said:
Hopefully for AMD's sake, they screwed the drivers or sandbagged this card, or something. If not, then it's a major fail. Guess we'll know in a month...
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I'm surprised that we haven't heard a lick from AMD yet. You'd think they'd be doing some damage control by now to address why it's performing so badly in gaming scenarios. If they'd just pop up on Twitter and say, "Hey guys, there's an issue with the driver / important features aren't enabled / this is a workstation card and the numbers are not representative of RX Vega / whatever" it would go a long way.
 
Bankie said:
I'm surprised that we haven't heard a lick from AMD yet. You'd think they'd be doing some damage control by now to address why it's performing so badly in gaming scenarios. If they'd just pop up on Twitter and say, "Hey guys, there's an issue with the driver / important features aren't enabled / this is a workstation card and the numbers are not representative of RX Vega / whatever" it would go a long way.
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Maybe they learned to keep their mouth shut instead of using buzzwords and empty promises to hype a bad GPU.
 
Bandalo said:
No, there are people out there who will scoop them up, even at higher prices. The "never Nvidia" crowd for one, and miners as a second. They're just not going to sell a LOT.
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exactly there are people who simply doesn't care.. those who downgraded from 290X/390X to Polaris RX 470/480 for power, heat and cooling, allegin funny reasons (yeah kinda hypocrites most of them) with Vega have an upgrade path at least.. because they are gona buy AMD regardless if it meet the promises or not.
 
This card won't be $350 MSRP as the gaming variant. Not unless it's 4GB. Not a chance.

We don't know the tiering but it wouldn't surprise me at all to see the 16GB variant at $650, the 8GB variant (if such exists) at $500, and the 4GB variant with potentially slower ram/cores (if such exists) at $350-400.

They already have the 100-300 price range covered with RX 4 and 5 series chips. The vega is not a drop in replacement for the RX series chips. It's a replacement for the Fury chips. And the Fury chips all MSRP'd at $500ish or above.


And --- people will still buy them. Just like they did the Fury cards. And in 9 months to a year you'll be able to get a sweet discounted deal on them, just as you could for the Fury cards.
 
Tup3x said:
This is their GeForce FX. Long wait and it turn out to be power hungry turd. In that case they should just leave GCN and start from scratch.
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GCN has been a turd from the start its the Netburst of GPUs
 
well the 7xxx series and the r9 2xx weren't bad they went toe for toe, but we saw on the r9 2xx GCN had to be changed, after that, they just become too power hungry for the performance they were competing against, pretty much when nV started focusing on performance/watt while maintaining performance and decreasing power usage, AMD just tried to push GCN more and more by giving it more power, ultimately we see what happened with the r3xx line, Fiji, Polaris, and now Vega. Just crazy power consumption compared to the competition and its been getting worse ever generation. With Vega, they can only push it so much so performance will be suffer ultimately.
 
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Araxie said:
Wat... HD7970 its probably the best AMD card ever made.. still by today standards being a 5.5 years old its a decent 1080P with high settings GPU for 90% of the games available. So yeah.. you are absolutely wrong.
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No I think Hawaii GCN 1.1 is aging a little bit better. R9 290
Could probably dig through some old fps charts to compare the difference.
 
Araxie said:
Wat... HD7970 its probably the best AMD card ever made.. still by today standards being a 5.5 years old its a decent 1080P with high settings GPU for 90% of the games available. So yeah.. you are absolutely wrong.
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GCN certainly had its time with Southern Islands the most successful iteration: HD7900s, Xbox 1, PS4, and a myriad of mobile card rebrands. That said, GCN should have been put in the ground after Hawaii and is so far past being long in the tooth at this point. The fact that AMD is using essentially the same base architecture and instruction set after 7 years boggles the mind.
 
Started after r9 290 and 290x. Then rebadged with 390/390x. Then tried to make it sound new with fury series, nothing different but hbm. Then Polaris and now Vega. I mean they talked about a lot of features with Vega. Looks to me that either they have an incompetent driver team that simply can't code or understand their architecture as nvidia or they fucked up big tim during design or simply bullshitted about features in Vega. I think navi is where it's at. Last two years The GPU division seems have been the victim of all out concentration on CPU launches. Seems like CPU division is executing on their game plan on the money while Raja talked Vega to death.
 
Ocellaris said:
You are making other AMD fans and trolls look bad with garbage like this.
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What garage? What I said looks pretty damn accurate! Just because the thread filled with hysterical Nvidia guys that haven't the faintest idea what they're looking at isn't my fault.

Ieldra said:
Sometimes I really can't tell if he's being sarcastic or not. He asks what Volta can bring to the table to match Vega

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Not sarcastic. Vega is ahead of Pascal on the features. That is a fact if the top tier everything statement from AMD is accurate.

Register cache likely isn't enabled. In the case of Maxwell that saved 36% power with no energy loss. Vega with probably a larger cache may exceed that and even depend on that feature for throughput.

So let's knock 100W off the current consumption. Probably a bit conservative, but bare with me here. So about 1080 performance as you like to claim at 200W? Look to be ahead in perf/watt now while supporting a far superior feature set.

As Titan is the likely competitor they'll need a bit more. Tiled rasterization probably saves 20% or more bandwidth when enabled. FP16 should help with HDR, physics, and some energy efficiency. Primitive shaders save a bit more for devs who take advantage. Then of course HBCC to avoid Nvidia's slow ass software paging with upcoming games surely won't hurt. At least it looks like Maxwell and Pascal finally caught the HD7000 series and landed the bindless resources so DX12 development can finally continue.

So yeah it's a serious question if Pascal is only half-assing support for essential features 4 years after the competition. We know Vega got the features, Volta is still somewhat of a mystery. It does have the theoretical performance to go head to head, so should be interesting.

Chimpee said:
Yea a bit confuse how the frequency stay more or less the same especially when it seems to be a thermal issue.
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Just don't do anything. Force clocks high and don't run anything. Not too different from Nvidia when overclocking. High clocks but wasted cycles as nothing schedules to keep thermals in check.

Ieldra said:
So PCPer tested at the rails, and at 1440mhz while gaming it drew 300W Anarchist4000
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What's the significance of that? Most cards are capable of 300W or significantly more. Enable that register cache and 225W at 1600MHz seems reasonable.
 
Tup3x said:
But does it shine in any use case? Is it better than competition at same price point in that use case?
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But that is not something I care about AMD launches many products and since I don't work for them or plan to work for them the placement of a product to their consumer base is their problem.

If someone decided to put 4 wheels under Radeon Vega Frontier edition Radeon pro and use it as a skateboard then complain about how lousy it is as a skateboard for the money is a problem by their own creation ...
 
Anarchist4000 said:
What garage? What I said looks pretty damn accurate! Just because the thread filled with hysterical Nvidia guys that haven't the faintest idea what they're looking at isn't my fault.


Not sarcastic. Vega is ahead of Pascal on the features. That is a fact if the top tier everything statement from AMD is accurate.

Register cache likely isn't enabled. In the case of Maxwell that saved 36% power with no energy loss. Vega with probably a larger cache may exceed that and even depend on that feature for throughput.

So let's knock 100W off the current consumption. Probably a bit conservative, but bare with me here. So about 1080 performance as you like to claim at 200W? Look to be ahead in perf/watt now while supporting a far superior feature set.

As Titan is the likely competitor they'll need a bit more. Tiled rasterization probably saves 20% or more bandwidth when enabled. FP16 should help with HDR, physics, and some energy efficiency. Primitive shaders save a bit more for devs who take advantage. Then of course HBCC to avoid Nvidia's slow ass software paging with upcoming games surely won't hurt. At least it looks like Maxwell and Pascal finally caught the HD7000 series and landed the bindless resources so DX12 development can finally continue.

So yeah it's a serious question if Pascal is only half-assing support for essential features 4 years after the competition. We know Vega got the features, Volta is still somewhat of a mystery. It does have the theoretical performance to go head to head, so should be interesting.

Just don't do anything. Force clocks high and don't run anything. Not too different from Nvidia when overclocking. High clocks but wasted cycles as nothing schedules to keep thermals in check.


What's the significance of that? Most cards are capable of 300W or significantly more. Enable that register cache and 225W at 1600MHz seems reasonable.
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LOL

And yeah the beauty of using 300 watts against cards that use less than 200 watts ;) yeah its a great achievement on AMD part, very over the top feature.

AMD overachieved in the power consumption department good for them!

Tile binned rasterization, as I stated, it is most likely on a per application basis via primitive shaders, close to a year ago when they first started talking about. Wait now you are saying register cache which is or is not enabled on Vega will help it consume less power? Nah man, I don't know where you are getting this stuff from, first its the tile binned rasterizer now its the register cache, guess what, is Vega a Half Baked card with Half Baked drivers? by your statements it looks that way. So AMD just sucks at everything they do when it comes to a launch, they just want to show their latest and greatest in the worst possible light ever!

You have no idea that AMD just screwed the pouch and trying to sit here and tell people that see the real results of Vega FE, which I have been saying from when (and others), its going to be tough to match up against Pascal and most likely will end up short of the 1080ti possible closer to the 1080 in most cases. Shit it even managed to drop down to the 1070 at times, sorry man that is what 80% difference at times in performance and 20% more power consumption than a 1080ti. No nothing in the world outside of a meteor coming down and destroying RTG Division will stop this abomination.

The significance of the 1440 mhz @ 300 watts, the card is throttling and still using that much power.

you do realize tier 3 resource binding and tiled resources are now available on pascal right? They are tier 3 cards ;). They had it all along just not activated. So it took AMD a year wait maybe even 2 years cause not sure about maxwell, don't have any maxwell based cards to test the new driver for the tiers..... Any one here have a maxwell to test it out? But in any case maxwell was 12.1 as well, since the inclusion of CRV's and ROV's. So who is behind again? As I stated 2 days ago, they are equalized with DX12 feature sets.....

Here is an output with the latest drivers of dx features on Titan Xp

Maximum feature level : D3D_FEATURE_LEVEL_12_1 (0xc100)
DoublePrecisionFloatShaderOps : 1
OutputMergerLogicOp : 1
MinPrecisionSupport : D3D12_SHADER_MIN_PRECISION_SUPPORT_NONE (0)
TiledResourcesTier : D3D12_TILED_RESOURCES_TIER_3 (3)
ResourceBindingTier : D3D12_RESOURCE_BINDING_TIER_3 (3)
PSSpecifiedStencilRefSupported : 0
TypedUAVLoadAdditionalFormats : 1
ROVsSupported : 1
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Any more questions about feature sets or tiers?
 
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DuronBurgerMan said:
I'm just going to ignore everything Vega until the gaming card comes out. And it if still sucks then... well, too bad for AMD.

My 1080 Ti is looking better and better, though.
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I highly doubt you will regret that purchase.

I recall some time ago when I bought the HD 5870 on launch and everyone screamed that I just HAD to wait for the GTX 480.... which was a steaming pile of crap anyhow when it finally did launch.

Buy what works NOW from either team when they lead, you never regret it, this waiting thing for the next great card is a suckers game.
 
it looks great but yeah looks aren't everything. What was that quote "Image is everything" Agassi
 
KazeoHin said:
I must admit, dispite being a dog in performance, its looks amazing. AMD really cleaned up its visual design.
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Yes, great of AMD for making a pretty blue rectangle around a horrendously incompetent cooling design.
 
AMD told AIBs that it want aftermarket cards on launch day.

Apparently, one of them took just the reference design, slap three fans on it, and call it a day.
 
thCSaDS - Imgur.gif


what a sobering moment.....

Vega just went by Raja and he didn't even realize it ;)
 
Pure Cooper + vapor chamber it's more than what I was expecting given the thermal issues...

damn... AIBs will have a big fun time trying to have an adequate aftermarket cooler at right prices.
 
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