Knock the GPUs all you want. The CCX problem is very minimized with fast RAM. Very happy with my Ryzen 7.
![[H]ard|Forum](/styles/hardforum/xenforo/logo_dark.png){kind=logo}
Vega Crossfire tested - poor scaling, slower than 1080 Ti
Knock the GPUs all you want. The CCX problem is very minimized with fast RAM. Very happy with my Ryzen 7.
SixFootDuo
Supreme [H]ardness
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Not silly at all. Since when has AMD beat nVidia? Maybe I am looking at this all wrong and you guys are budget consumers who do not are about performance.
To me it's black and white. I'm honestly not a fan of either brand. I'm a fan of performance. If it were AMD on top and nVidia consistently came in last I would have said nVidia and not AMD in my post. Either or, whatever.
This is not an argument or a fandom rant or whatever you think it is. I am just saying don't some of you just get tired and worn down seeing what AMD is going to do year after year? I did. Just spending the extra money and moving over to the fastest performing graphics card will solve a lot of issues.
But regardless of what you have or like, that's all that matters at the end of the day. Maybe I just have a lower threshold for all this performance drama.
being happy with something doesn't mean the product doesn't have problems......
Even with less of a problem with faster ram it doesn't' go away. And with more than two CCX modules that problem will become even worse.
You can live with those problems, others might not see it that way.
Didn't the 3.5 gb on a 970 ring a bell, that was a problem, it did have 4 gb though, just doesn't run that last .5 gb at the same speed, but it didn't effect performance that was stated by reviewers from the launch of the card. That was talking about and pressed. But no can't have any of that for an AMD product right?
For the price of Ryzen, yeah the problem is duly applicable.
Lets see how that holds up with thread ripper and Epyc.... 1000 buck chips shouldn't have that problem period.
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ecmaster76
[H]ard|Gawd
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Ryzen turned out better than a lot of naysayers predicted so there is decent prospects of Threadripper/Epyc being great. The CCX latency issue is less of a big deal in that market because anything programmed for multi socket better be prepared for some latency; the trick will be recognizing the fabric partitions as 'sockets'
Vega's biggest problem will be the release date. Its looking like for the performance it has its over a year late.
They have a decent chance of releasing a competitive part in the $500/200w+ niche (1070/1080) but so close to the end of Pascal's release cycle that anyone who wanted last gen already bit on Pascal and anyone looking for next gen won't be super impressed.
Barring some miracles of course
Vega's biggest problem will be the release date. Its looking like for the performance it has its over a year late.
They have a decent chance of releasing a competitive part in the $500/200w+ niche (1070/1080) but so close to the end of Pascal's release cycle that anyone who wanted last gen already bit on Pascal and anyone looking for next gen won't be super impressed.
Barring some miracles of course
You've defined it as the problem, I just see it as what it is.. a limitation of the architecture. It doesn't stop applications from running or even stop them from running well. It's different from an Intel solution, probably inferior.. but it's not broken and it's no more of a problem than the fact that some shoes you stop and tie up first and others you just slip on. Does CCX cross latency stop these chips from working or cause them to throw errors? I do not believe it does.
Ryzen turned out better than a lot of naysayers predicted so there is decent prospects of Threadripper/Epyc being great. The CCX latency issue is less of a big deal in that market because anything programmed for multi socket better be prepared for some latency; the trick will be recognizing the fabric partitions as 'sockets'
Vega's biggest problem will be the release date. Its looking like for the performance it has its over a year late.
They have a decent chance of releasing a competitive part in the $500/200w+ niche (1070/1080) but so close to the end of Pascal's release cycle that anyone who wanted last gen already bit on Pascal and anyone looking for next gen won't be super impressed.
Barring some miracles of course
Well in truth, its worse on server programs, cause just an example SQL servers, you can program per thread and have databases designated on certain cores and local cache, but the problem is, because of the CCX latency issues. no longer will lets say core 7 share with core 0 on AMD chips, but on Intel's its no problem.
And the latency will be enormous if you are querying over two different databases on cores that have CCX cross talk.
SimplyFun,
yes its a problem. Because its applications like SQL which almost all web based backends are based on large and small have been tailored to Intel's chips which don't have the CCX latency issues. just imagine the older databases based on Fortran or Cobol those will have their own set of issues with the latency increases.
So even NUMA aware programs that have SQL based backends, will need to be re-optimized for AMD chips.
Bank software or government databases that is based on Fortran and or Cobol, will need major overhauls too.
basic tutorial on optimization on NUMA aware SQL backends.
This is just a small example, and why data localization is so important in performance. Now the people talking about how great Infinity Fabric is, its just a stepping stone for something better, and better, and this is also why infinity fabric is not good for GPU's well, shouldn't say good, not fast enough for GPU's at the moment.
Until we have a fully coharrent interconnect without or with much less latency, its just not good enough to do certain things, not good for mgpu's acting like one gpu. Not even good for multiple CPU's or in AMD's case CCX modules cause the programs can only hide so much latency.
This tutorial is talking about things without CCX cross talk issues, just imagine what happens with that. The performance for one node to talk to another node (data that is remote), 25% increase in getting that data!. If the CCX and infinity fabric is involved, its going to be 250% increase (guessing based on what we saw with the CCX increase in latency)
NUMA node is one coherent CPU which even on Intel is 4 cores.
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I read and was already aware of the issues. It's not a problem, it's an architecture. One than can and will be coded for. This isn't a problem. Changes or adoption of a different arch always come with some caveat, so does this one.
An example of a problem would be if MS and others didn't offer support for the arch.... that would be a problem. "we will never patch SQL and the underlying OS for AMD" .... that would be a problem.
The arch doing ti what it does, the way it does, that's not a problem.
If we take that up with video cards and assume we are going to see MCM type constructs in the future (a very safe bet) and that's all there's going to be.... well people are going to start to code games that run on that. It's not a problem. The problem would be if they refused and your PC was useless for playing new games.
Its not a problem with sql, there is nothing to patch, programmers have to do much more work. Its not even a caveat, all server programs that span over more than one CPU is going to be a problem. One needs to code around the issue to avoid the issue.
Tup3x
[H]ard|Gawd
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~16 % of people who voted in that pool. But I wasn't really talking about this place but, for example, comments on certain rumour sites.
I agree it's not a problem, it's just something to code for. The problem occurs when the coding doesn't happen. If the underlying OS presents each module as a CPU to the SQL server, it's not going to care (no idea what the final solutions will be, just using a random example). Does that limit AMD in database driven markets until changes can be made? Possibly and that might be a problem.
At the moment I'm expecting to see a 50% drop in performance or greater depending on the work load for an equivalent thread for thread CPU from AMD to Intel. That is huge. Yes it will limit AMD database or any NUMA aware software (SAP for example) markets.
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JustReason
razor1 is my Lover
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Nail meet head. Problem I have is that the greater portion of these negative posters are not likely ever gonna buy AMD. I give Razor a pass because I think he actually would. But as I am only interested in AMD, I have found the AMD GPU forum to be overly toxic and generally too hostile to even post in. For every positive or even just speculative post there will be 10 hostile posts of varying degrees following it. Makes it very hard to even post here knowing that likely you will be butting heads with responders. Same thing was happening in the AMD CPU section till most got banned from posting in it.
I am only interested in purchasing AMD hence you don't see me posting in the Intel or Nvidia sub forums, a practice I wish more would follow. I do read posts in the other forums usually just after a new release to see any technical info and the trends in the current tech. But I don't post there and definitely don't bash them even though I have great disdain for their business practices.
butting heads is one thing, hyping something is totally different man.
Any case yeah I have a budget of 10k per year on computers, but rarely use it cause for the past 10 years Intel and its incremental increases. Here is hoping for Ryzen 2 or Zen 2 to be much better (getting all the kinks out). Graphics cards wise I will be getting RX Vega, just have to, its more of necessity than a want. Now since I started mining, I've already spent 30k on mining systems, and by the end of the year its going to go up to 60k or so. Next year if mining continues the way it is right now, I will spend 100k easy in the first 6 months. I have no issue with buying AMD products, it just has to be warranted, just like any other products I buy, they have to do the job they are bought for and best they can do for the money I put down.
Can't help post in AMD threads in the AMD subforum, for something like a Vega rumor thread, unless the thread was created in the general GPU forum, which it wasn't. And once its posted, people can't be expected not to talk about other company products. How can one say something is good or bad without comparing and contrasting to what is already out there? Compare it to older gens of the same company? it will always be good then.
Any case yeah I have a budget of 10k per year on computers, but rarely use it cause for the past 10 years Intel and its incremental increases. Here is hoping for Ryzen 2 or Zen 2 to be much better (getting all the kinks out). Graphics cards wise I will be getting RX Vega, just have to, its more of necessity than a want. Now since I started mining, I've already spent 30k on mining systems, and by the end of the year its going to go up to 60k or so. Next year if mining continues the way it is right now, I will spend 100k easy in the first 6 months. I have no issue with buying AMD products, it just has to be warranted, just like any other products I buy, they have to do the job they are bought for and best they can do for the money I put down.
Can't help post in AMD threads in the AMD subforum, for something like a Vega rumor thread, unless the thread was created in the general GPU forum, which it wasn't. And once its posted, people can't be expected not to talk about other company products. How can one say something is good or bad without comparing and contrasting to what is already out there? Compare it to older gens of the same company? it will always be good then.
Pieter3dnow
Supreme [H]ardness
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It is silly because I linked a post that excludes everyone from buying AMD the poster claims we can not buy AMD and we are nuts.
I listed some of the criteria for people complaining in the AMD forum and what did you do complained about AMD without any merit...You can make your own decisions free to spend your money however you want but it is unnecessary to spend your time on the AMD forum making up shit as "aren't you tired" no, "we" are tired of the likes of you.
IdiotInCharge
NVIDIA SHILL
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People complaining about people complaining about AMD in an 'AMD sanctuary'.
It ain't no sanctuary. I don't even look at the subforums; I don't surf the forum listing, I look at latest posts occasionally. That's very easy to do, and all posts roll to the top. If you get your feelz hurt because you only buy one brand/refuse to buy another brand in deference to your own religious crusade, well, not sorry. If that brand that you purchase exclusively happens to be AMD, well damn, you're just asking for a bruising. There's been very little reason to be positive about AMD for the last half decade or so, and even Ryzen is a half-step behind for gaming. Vega will not redeem them.
And I happen to be somewhat interested in Vega, though doubtful as per evidence so far; I've had good experiences with AMD, and most recently not as good, but not recently enough to exclude them if they step up. They manage to pull a rabbit out of their hat and get single-GPU price/performance/noise/efficiency/compatibility where it matters to me? They'll get my money.
If not, well, it's not like Nvidia fails to execute.
It ain't no sanctuary. I don't even look at the subforums; I don't surf the forum listing, I look at latest posts occasionally. That's very easy to do, and all posts roll to the top. If you get your feelz hurt because you only buy one brand/refuse to buy another brand in deference to your own religious crusade, well, not sorry. If that brand that you purchase exclusively happens to be AMD, well damn, you're just asking for a bruising. There's been very little reason to be positive about AMD for the last half decade or so, and even Ryzen is a half-step behind for gaming. Vega will not redeem them.
And I happen to be somewhat interested in Vega, though doubtful as per evidence so far; I've had good experiences with AMD, and most recently not as good, but not recently enough to exclude them if they step up. They manage to pull a rabbit out of their hat and get single-GPU price/performance/noise/efficiency/compatibility where it matters to me? They'll get my money.
If not, well, it's not like Nvidia fails to execute.
sirmonkey1985
[H]ard|DCer of the Month - July 2010
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i pretty much gave up on the amd gpu subforum when the nvidia fanboys took it over. literally impossible to have a constructive conversation/debate in this subforum.
see that is talking things personally, you don't like the fact that he said aren't you getting tired of AMD, because AMD isn't making compelling products. Guess what, are ya pissed off at him or AMD, you should be pissed off at AMD. And a person only gets mad when they care about something.
crazycrave
[H]ard|Gawd
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I know what Nvidia does not deliver and that"s your money's worth because the cards have no long term life plans like say the HD7970/50 do .. performance can be measured in many ways and Nvidia only offers short term performance of current line up as my 770GTX 4GB will never see DX 12 support so it's the end of the road for it and show cases Nvidia's short term performance gains.
Yet the 7970 lives on to support 4K 60Hz (Club 3D dp 1.2 to HDMI 2.0) it runs DX 12 /Vulken API .
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what? Fermi and up have DX12 support, if you are talking about async compute, that is not a requirement of DX12....... Look at earlier post, how good AMD marketing really is!
And short term performance, performance for a couple of gens is all that is needed, 3 years, that is the typical upgrade amount of time for graphics cards in the mid range, 1.5 years for the performance and enthusiast segments.
JustReason
razor1 is my Lover
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Not exactly. I am only interested in AMD products, so coming here in this section should warrant information on current tech and releases. Well it does to some degree, but only with a hefty amount of negativity and confrontation. Say I speak of AMDs high bandwidth cache supposedly incorporated in Vega, and obviously being a performance enhancing tech I might speak of it in a favorable albeit gitty light. I WILL be met with hostile responses and negativity as those that have no desire to purchase AMD camp this forum to quash any such positive reactions.
Think back to Doom. AMD used that shader thing (drawing a blank on the term) which gave them a hefty performance boost. Hell my 290/8350 with maxed settings except highest for textures (4gb vram) Got 120fps. Now look at the common posters of AMD-bashing... They didn't give credit but instead made it seem like a cheat then continue to quash any hopes that it might be incorporated elsewhere. Hell not even a mention of Nvidia needing to do the same.
so in respect to current topic, NO we gain nothing by having a poster tell us he has bought and will continue to buy Nvidia products. Oh and gotta love those that claim they would buy AMD if they were competitive, and don't seem to have ever owned a 7970 or a R9-290X. As I have stated before, NVidia only ever seems to lock down the top position, from there down AMD rules (excluding current gen for at least another month).
Anyway just take a birds eye view and you will see the hostility and rabid nature of some of the posters.
Ok lets discuss,
What makes high bandwidth cache so important in the cards its coming out on? And in the future year and half the life span of this card how does it impact it in the market? These are the questions I think about when I hear things about new tech. Then answer accordingly. Its not what AMD says about, Marketing only shows their point of view because it gives them reasons to sell you something you may not even need. So someone (not saying you) that just says the same crap as AMD marketing says about their products, are really acting like an extension of AMD marketing.
Now intrinsic shaders (think that is what you are talking about), great thing but it was explained, nV's got their intrinsics too, nothing special, just for Doom, nV's drivers didn't expose them at that time, so the developers didn't put nV's intrinsics in the game.
nV has been ruling AMD in all market segments for the past 6 years! That is why they are making 3 times the amount of money than AMD (even with AMD's GPU and CPU combined) gross profits. Actual market share numbers AMD/ATi hasn't had 50% since the 9800 pro I think, that's like 15 years?
Yes I do take a birds eye view JustReason and this is what I see. I think Linustech tips in their latest wan show hinted on it too, "AMD enthusiasts are extremely enthusiastic"
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Pieter3dnow
Supreme [H]ardness
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You should learn to read , "the likes of you" means in general people https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/the-likes-of
I'm not tired of AMD already stated that. And why should I be ? So where is your link for RX VEGA not being a compelling product ?
That last sentence is that saying that you really care about me , how sweet of you
You should learn to read , "the likes of you" means in general people https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/the-likes-of
I'm not tired of AMD already stated that. And why should I be ? So where is your link for RX VEGA not being a compelling product ?
That last sentence is that saying that you really care about me , how sweet of you
Likes of you is inclusive of that person by similarities of behavior, English is not my first language but still.....
If it comes out like the FE its not a compelling product, outside of freesync users, there are already cards out there that does what it does AND MUCH MORE.
AMD doesn't "deserve" your money because they are loosing OK, they don't "deserve" your time for waiting. Just like the way they don't give a shit about their users, cause that is the way it is, its a business, any business their first and only obligation is to take care of themselves first, just as your obligation should be to take care of yourself first and your needs and wants.
I don't give a shit about you, but your thought process, I do care about, cause that is f'ed up, of what I just stated totally went above your head...... Why? Your emotions are involved with AMD.
Your posting and talking to a person that is willing to spend 160k in 1 year on AMD graphics cards, guess what that is .1% or so of AMD's total graphics earnings in an entire year. YEAH that is just one person man. How much money do you give AMD? Hmm what 1k a year, or 500 bucks, or 300 bucks?
I should care more about their products then you by a factor of how much? And I don't give a shit about the company, I only care about if they can get competitive products to the market at a timely basis without the crap in middle.
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JustReason
razor1 is my Lover
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again you have to step back and give a broader view. Just talking about the tech and what it can do is in fact what I like. We could talk about intel intentionally, illegally and unethically, holding back multicore gaming to allow their business model to cash out bigger rather than think of their customers. Or NVidia perpetuating stale tech simply because it expounds their latest lineup, rather than think of the community as a whole. I as a consumer don't give a single damn about how much money they make only what they could give me in the end. The 7970 had tech that didn't fully get utilized till 3yrs later. Do you think those customers are pissed they didn't have it sooner, or do you think that sentiment is quashed by the fact their cards have stayed relevant for now going on 5 years?
When I see AMD releasing new tech it is outside the box, a new way of doing things. I know quite a few Titan owners that would love to see GW die and see tesselstion retire. Compute is another way and because of Nvidias leverage and their desire to keep their lineup segmented, they have done all, so much so, they are looking to be endeavoring the same path Intel took, to keep it from being used enmass.
I know, you will now try as hard as you will to paint Nvidias practices in a more favorable light, while simultaneously bashing and quelling any and all positives on any AMD tech, simply because you can. I dare say not one of you in this subforum have added any information or intellectual knowledge on any of the tech in Vega. It has been only the pro/neutral-AMDers or the fact I have had to go to other sites to get that information.
How can you crucify Intel when there was no better option and now AMD has a better well somewhat better can't even call it better lets say equal to Intel when combining IPC and multithreaded performance as a whole, so it takes Dev's time to prep for that. You can't bitch out Intel, they did what they have always done, make money for themselves, and not at the expense of us, cause they didn't need to push anything for our money. Shit my Penryn system dual quad core had it for 5 years no CPU upgrades. The only reason I upgraded was planned obsolescence.
And this is what you miss, you say take a birds eye view. All damn companies behave the same way when they are at virtual monopolies. They maximize their profits. AMD just doesn't do it because they don't have the leverage to do it. AMD did it with Opteron and A64, those weren't cheap chips, and they segmented their line up just the way Intel did at the time. Don't tell me one company has better "consumer values" then another. The only thing they care about is how to rape your wallet period.
No I have never stated nvidia's business practices are great or better than AMD's, I have always stated they are the damn same thing, its a corporation. They all think the same the only thing is nV is able to act and manipulate the market as they see fit because of their position in the market. This didn't come about by accident either. As direction a company should take and leadership of that company, yes nV is better (miles ahead of AMD, they are able to forecast user needs and market shifts much better than AMD even now), but that has nothing to do with their current policies towards consumers. AMD will do the same thing if they were in a position. Shit AMD tried to push Sony and MS on consoles with their Vulkan API. If that happened what would be the fate of the gaming industry. Think Carmack said it the best, its a dangerous position to be in. AMD thought they have the leverage to do it because they "owned" all three consoles. MS and Sony saw right through the BS AMD was peddling.
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It cuts both ways, I commented several times that the most prolific Ryzen discussions were in the Intel subforum.
Formula.350
[H]ard|Gawd
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I'm an only child, but I think you're my brother... lmao
Seriously, while reading this I felt like I had wrote it, as those are basically my exact feelings on the matters.
TheLAWNoob
Limp Gawd
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What law did intel break for that?
Although I agree intel is evil because they want to make a profit.
I give myself a pat on the back every now and then for buying a RX 550 and some RX 480s for supporting the non profit organization.
GoldenTiger
Fully [H]
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Owned both, and couldn't run away fast enough! The 7970 I replaced with the superior gtx 680 which was also cheaper. The 290 for returned because it ran hot and loud, throttling constantly. Nvidia tends to just work better, hence the market share. Don't look at video cards religiously and logic shows this. I was pissed at the 970 vram thing but amd had nothing to offer, and still doesn't to this day.
Pieter3dnow
Supreme [H]ardness
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Intel still owes EU some money they got a big fine
It is not about non profit.it is not even about feel good purchases , how you spend your money from whichever ideology or impulsive or strong arm from a first second or third party impulse is not an issue.
Denying people the choice that they want to make is worrying, claiming that people need to be ridiculed for their choice is also something which is something that is wrong.
But you can not deny that supporting AMD is a bad thing if there no such support they will not ever make anything that will drive down prices in the gpu market and that is what most people are not willing to see. They want results as if AMD was a magician a quick rabbit out of the hat.
Intel still owes EU some money they got a big fine
It is not about non profit.it is not even about feel good purchases , how you spend your money from whichever ideology or impulsive or strong arm from a first second or third party impulse is not an issue.
Denying people the choice that they want to make is worrying, claiming that people need to be ridiculed for their choice is also something which is something that is wrong.
But you can not deny that supporting AMD is a bad thing if there no such support they will not ever make anything that will drive down prices in the gpu market and that is what most people are not willing to see. They want results as if AMD was a magician a quick rabbit out of the hat.
Who is denying anyone choice of product, who is strong arming? AMD just hasn't been able to produce any compelling products in the upper segments both in CPU and GPU. At least now in CPU they are somewhat better though.
Who is saying people need to be ridiculed for their choice?
If you want to support AMD when they have sub par GPU products, buy their products go ahead, have fun with it, you are their charity. Why not just give them your money for nothing then? That way you can take a tax break too.
You don't support a company, you support a product when the product is good. Not the company, the company is an entity and the company only cares about one thing, profits. PERIOD, the company can dress that up as they wish, but its always the bottom line that matters for them.
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bigbeard850
n00b
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I used to be an AMD fan. I had crossfire 290s, and I believed they were great value for the massive performance I got. Crossfire worked well in many games, but as games would be updated, or an new games would arise, crossfire became a massive headache.
Anyone saying multigpu is not problematic is a liar, in denial, or only plays a subset of older games. I will never use crossfire or sli. It always turned into a waiting game...sometimes I had to wait months to play new games (if I was lucky).
the problem with AMD, and why it is hemorrhaging money, is that with them, it is ALWAYS a waiting game. Wait for this, wait for that. Before you know it, they are too far behind. I would have fired AMD upper management (researchers, managers, CEO, press/social media, etc) a very long time ago. They destroyed the company (purposely - I believe).
I will have a very difficult time trusting any AMD product because of my experience with this "waiting." This isn't delusion or trolling...enough people understand this that is has to have basis in reality. The new waiting game is updating BIOS for magical performance boost on their new cpus, or a magic driver or game orientated card for magical FPS increase - do you see how they partake in repetitive delusion?
I think AMD committed suicide by the way they ran things. They artificially increased their stock price by false hopes from people that don't know how demented AMD operates. The only way AMD can save their self is to sell off their gpu division and use that money to pay debts and invest into further cpu research.
You can forget about AMD every truly competing with leading performance until more money and brains is invested (they need to stop using Indians too - they are smart, but they lack something White and Asian people have).
People should forget about depending on developers to implement multigpu in their games. We live in a time when everything is about money, profit, and greed. People rarely do things because they believe in working towards being the best.
Anyone saying multigpu is not problematic is a liar, in denial, or only plays a subset of older games. I will never use crossfire or sli. It always turned into a waiting game...sometimes I had to wait months to play new games (if I was lucky).
the problem with AMD, and why it is hemorrhaging money, is that with them, it is ALWAYS a waiting game. Wait for this, wait for that. Before you know it, they are too far behind. I would have fired AMD upper management (researchers, managers, CEO, press/social media, etc) a very long time ago. They destroyed the company (purposely - I believe).
I will have a very difficult time trusting any AMD product because of my experience with this "waiting." This isn't delusion or trolling...enough people understand this that is has to have basis in reality. The new waiting game is updating BIOS for magical performance boost on their new cpus, or a magic driver or game orientated card for magical FPS increase - do you see how they partake in repetitive delusion?
I think AMD committed suicide by the way they ran things. They artificially increased their stock price by false hopes from people that don't know how demented AMD operates. The only way AMD can save their self is to sell off their gpu division and use that money to pay debts and invest into further cpu research.
You can forget about AMD every truly competing with leading performance until more money and brains is invested (they need to stop using Indians too - they are smart, but they lack something White and Asian people have).
People should forget about depending on developers to implement multigpu in their games. We live in a time when everything is about money, profit, and greed. People rarely do things because they believe in working towards being the best.
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Doesn't matter who they hire (Indian, Asian, Caucasian, Black, what ever), its the people that lead the engineering teams, they are the engineers that design the chips, and if they don't have vision then the product won't come out very good.
Yeah agree with everything else ya stated.
They definitely pumped up their stock but they did it for good reason, to get rid of some of there debt, but the burden is still on the share holders as the stock is now over valued for their current company assets. Once investors start realizing that it will balance out.
Yeah agree with everything else ya stated.
They definitely pumped up their stock but they did it for good reason, to get rid of some of there debt, but the burden is still on the share holders as the stock is now over valued for their current company assets. Once investors start realizing that it will balance out.
TheLAWNoob
Limp Gawd
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Intel still owes EU some money they got a big fine
It is not about non profit.it is not even about feel good purchases , how you spend your money from whichever ideology or impulsive or strong arm from a first second or third party impulse is not an issue.
Denying people the choice that they want to make is worrying, claiming that people need to be ridiculed for their choice is also something which is something that is wrong.
But you can not deny that supporting AMD is a bad thing if there no such support they will not ever make anything that will drive down prices in the gpu market and that is what most people are not willing to see. They want results as if AMD was a magician a quick rabbit out of the hat.
Last time I checked, "holding back multicore gaming" is not illegal. That's exactly what you said and what I questioned.
JustReason
razor1 is my Lover
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2015
- Messages
- 2,483
He didn't say it, I did and not exactly what I said. All the illegal activities Intel DID (not accused or unfounded) Involved them paying off vendors and it would be likely they did the same with software, even possibly influencing MS. As I have stated many times over the last year or more, back in 2009 and a bit before there was a DX12 like API in the works, even the WDDM2.0-like setup was being worked on (hence GCN and what we now know as far as their architecture and async). Suddenly that work just ended, disappeared. Think for just a second... who did that benefit the most? Its not like it is past Intel to do such things, hell they get involved in some anti-competitive lawsuit in some country every 2 years. They seem to find the fines do not outweigh the benefits of unethical business behavior.
Intel had nothing to do with the second half of your statement. WDDM 2.0 there were limitations in Vista, and early versions of Windows 7. Windows 7 graphics core had to be rewritten to use WDDM 2.0 model. This is nothing to do with Intel lol.
Conspiracy theorists love to hook one to two and think they are interconnected but its rarely the case they are.
Ironically Intel went to 12.1 well before AMD did what does that tell you, they wanted to hold back DX12? If it takes 5 years per CPU to be designed, that means Intel was already designing their DX12.1 IGP well before the 7xxx series came out lol. Yet it was Intel that stopped MS from going to WDDM 2.0.
LL API's have been around for ALONG time, consoles had LLAPI's for years before they were introduced to PC's. So the crazy idea Intel stopped MS from doing this is unfounded.
I can't understand why people don't get these chips TAKE many years to design but just because AMD has something doesn't mean other companies aren't thinking or doing things across the same lines at the same time.
TheLAWNoob
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2016
- Messages
- 330
Well you were intentionally vague about
"We could talk about intel intentionally, illegally and unethically, holding back multicore gaming to allow their business model to cash out bigger rather than think of their customers"
If holding back more cores is illegal, then what about AMD holding back Vega? They are not doing their customers any favours there.
Pieter3dnow
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2009
- Messages
- 6,784
Ieldra
I Promise to RTFM
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2016
- Messages
- 3,539
You spend as much time bashing NVIDIA and making false claims regarding their GPUs and technology as you do praising AMD. I cannot even count the number of inane posts regarding async compute I have had to reply to because of your spreading misinformation. Not to mention the manifold posts in which you discuss, at painful length, why exactly NV is unethical and how their software development practices are the literal manifestation of the will of Satan.
Yes, intrinsic shaders. I remember arguing with you about this, it just makes my blood boil when AMD manages to coax developers into writing GCN specific code to improve performance. Just kidding. On one hand you praise iD for being the first to implement GCN intrinsics and with the other you bash NV for doing the EXACT SAME THING through gameworks. Hardware-specific code? Check. Impossibility to directly port said code to other IHV hardware? Check. We even had a length discussion about the "black box" nature of said improvements. You claimed intrinsics were not a closed source blackbox solution therefore could just as easily be implemented for NV, despite the fact that it's quite clear in the NAME that said code CANNOT be compatible with anything but GCN based hardware. Shaders INTRINSICS. They are intrinsic to the GPU architecture.
lol.
What I have gleaned from reading the last page of this thread is that you, and others, would like a safe space to talk about AMD products without anyone contesting your claims, or damping your excitement. That's fine, it's called r/AMD and the link is posted below.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/