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Vega Crossfire tested - poor scaling, slower than 1080 Ti
EuphoricRage470
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Word.
Archaea
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Meh. Let's see what the actual gaming card in RX Vega does at the end of the month before getting our collective panties twisted up.
Crossfire scaling is typically good (stronger than SLI)
I'll be surprised if it's a big step back on the actual RX Vega when released.
Crossfire scaling is typically good (stronger than SLI)
I'll be surprised if it's a big step back on the actual RX Vega when released.
auntjemima
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You guys are constantly "waiting to see".
dragonstongue
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I would judge GAMING cards for GAMING purposes before I got panties twisted up, am sure with Vega FE AMD engineers are working many hours to get driver sets fine tuned so they can be certified for workstation/PRO far more than they are concerned with making sure it runs games at high frame rates, Crossfire scales super well for GAMING etc seeing as there is a very large fundamental difference between content creation/hashing and running the same content at blistering speed.
the current Vega, is not, and never was meant to be a consumer class GAMING graphics card, not sure why a few review sites and so many folks getting all worked up about it. "aww man, it doesnt run game XY at the same FPS as Nv model Z" man that sucks, but guess what, it was not meant to do so either.
Likely RX Vega will use more power because there is a bunch more under the hood than current generation Nv1000 series (not specifically raw transistor count, bur just more "fleshed out" for how it was built) more stuff to drive, more power used, very simple equation, however, just like Ryzen is very comparable $ and performance to everything Intel has full stop, am also quite certain RX Vega will be just as comparable to what Nv currently has.
I am "waiting to see" Nv actually have full support of anything besides making $ and using fancy tricks to disable/force things to "appear" faster than competition, and well, have actual full DX12 support which they have claimed many times over but most certainly do not have, if they did, likely they would be using just as much if not more power to drive things, physics are a bitch, so is not lying to customers
Guess all I am saying IMO of course, and not to put words in EuphoricRage's mouth, judge the product one what it was designed for, otherwise not only is that a disservice to the company/person in question, it just make you an a## for nothing.
the current Vega, is not, and never was meant to be a consumer class GAMING graphics card, not sure why a few review sites and so many folks getting all worked up about it. "aww man, it doesnt run game XY at the same FPS as Nv model Z" man that sucks, but guess what, it was not meant to do so either.
Likely RX Vega will use more power because there is a bunch more under the hood than current generation Nv1000 series (not specifically raw transistor count, bur just more "fleshed out" for how it was built) more stuff to drive, more power used, very simple equation, however, just like Ryzen is very comparable $ and performance to everything Intel has full stop, am also quite certain RX Vega will be just as comparable to what Nv currently has.
I am "waiting to see" Nv actually have full support of anything besides making $ and using fancy tricks to disable/force things to "appear" faster than competition, and well, have actual full DX12 support which they have claimed many times over but most certainly do not have, if they did, likely they would be using just as much if not more power to drive things, physics are a bitch, so is not lying to customers
Guess all I am saying IMO of course, and not to put words in EuphoricRage's mouth, judge the product one what it was designed for, otherwise not only is that a disservice to the company/person in question, it just make you an a## for nothing.
Pieter3dnow
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Well I don't speak for others but it is clear that RADEON RX VEGA is not going to be outperforming some current Nvidia cards.
Since no one has a retail RADEON RX VEGA it is safe to say that the numbers may vary, but by how much ? You don't have to be a rocket scientist on that part but to say anything else about a card that has yet to appear in retail is silly as you and other demonstrated so well in the VEGA RUMORS topic.
So unless you want to fill out 44+ pages of non stop nonsense here is the thread for you.
I don't think anyone here (reasonable persons not some drama queens in need of attention) ever thought that any form of Vega will beat Nvidia ....
auntjemima
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I am currently driving through an area (as a passenger) with questionable service, I can't find examples, but I assure you that when the RX cards came out and were complete shit, the popular narrative was "Vega is the card to beat Nvidia, not the RX's, duh!". Paraphrased of course.
So, yes, the AMD crowd has been huffing and puffing all over here, Reddit and anywhere else that will listen, about how incredible RX Vega will be.
That said, at what point do you stop supporting a company that doesn't deliver on the performance OR the power front? You guys think you are martyrs, like buying an AMD product will somehow save the company. I wouldn't buy a shitty substandard GM vehicle for more money than the competition with the crazy expectation that my purchase made their next iteration better. That's nuts.
Pieter3dnow
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What is nuts is the reply you wrote because without competition you can't complain about AMD. And then we would have to listen to you complaining about all these stupidly high prices Nvidia asks because you and others are extremely short sighted people which screw any topic on the premise that you would have to abide by the rules you make for "us" (other people).
Let me put the fear of god into for your statement about cars , if you ever in your life bought a gas guzzling auto mobile you supported terrorism. The money you spend on gas went straight to Saudi Arabia which is the home of the most radical Muslim beliefs which funded Osama Bin Laden.
And you are putting this sentiment into the message you have for AMD users....
auntjemima
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If that's really how you feel I hope you never shop anywhere but mom and pop stores and only buy things from the underdog.
Of course, these aren't things you do. You try and justify it with video cards but could never in your day to day life.
I see that you brought out the entire strawman army. Now what are you going to do when next called upon to fight your fanboy war for AMD?
Why does it bother you so much?
Dayaks
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If you look at the last [H] review that's not true at all. Besides that mGPU sucks for both nVidia and AMD. I've tried both sides and it's always been meh. Sucks they didn't show 1080ti SLI. I would have liked updated data...
Honestly - who is surprised crossfire blows right now for Vega when we are questioning if Vega's drivers are even complete for a single card?
Although another tidbit - when I had 1080 SLI you DO NOT want it to be thermally or power limited. It kills frame times. I'd love a review with it watercooled and modd'd so no limiting, but I doubt I'll ever see that.
Tup3x
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Well... I think it's reasonable to expect a product that comes over one year later than the competing product to be faster.
Currently it looks like it may be about as fast and definitely behind NVIDIA's top dog (I don't really think that anyone believed that it would spank the big Pascal). Unless it offers price advantage it feels rather pointless at this point for those who do not have brand preference.
Archaea
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I disagree, but let's get specific.
I've tried both SLI and Crossfire as well. I have had 0, count them 0 issues with Crossfire in six + months of use on my Fury X pair. I've never had to disable it a single time to get a game working, (or even disable it to remedy a quirky performance issue). Everything has just worked -- and worked well! I've tried a lot of games out of my personal library. I've not noticed any microstutter whatsoever. Perhaps that's related to the fact I have three FreeSync monitors to pair with the Fury X - but I've watched videos of microstutter to see what it is -- and I can clearly see what it is in the videos - and yet I've not observed any of that, on any game with my Crossfire setup.
Here is a post discussing Crossfire being superior to SLI (more or less) from earlier in this thread: Post 23:
https://hardforum.com/threads/vega-rumors.1933112/#post-1042998090
Example:
But to be frank, benchmarks have shown this trend for years, Crossfire scales more strongly than SLI -- be it two cards, three cards, or four cards.
Here's a little more anecdotal evidence. Nobody mentions anything worthwhile that has issues currently
https://hardforum.com/threads/name-games-that-dont-work-with-crossfire.1930286/
as compared to a comparable thread on SLI Several people mention current gen games that have kinks, require disabling SLI for functionality, or to actually improve performance. My brother just in the last couple months gave up on SLI for ever. He said it was a pain in the rear constantly, and he wasn't doing it again. He had a pair of 970 cards for close to two years. During that time, we were both gaming frequenty and he was having headaches with SLI, and I was having none with Crossfire. (Ancedotal - yes - agreed -- but that's why I created these two threads -- to see if that experience was limited or broader?)
https://hardforum.com/threads/name-games-that-dont-work-with-sli.1930282/
In all fairness,
Right now I have two 1080 TIs in my machine, - I just got them in the last week for the purposes of mining. I'm going to try them for a while and see how they perform at gaming too. I'll try out SLI. With this experience, I'll be able to compare six months + of recent experiences with my Fury X Crossfired pair, against this new pair of 1080 TI cards in SLI on the same types of games. I'll relay the results in those threads above when I have some current experience under my belt. I've had no problems with Crossfire -- I hope to have no problems with SLI. We'll see.
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5150Joker
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Really seems like Vega isn't ready for release and they're just pushing it out now before Volta shows up. I think even the supposed gaming Rx drivers will probably only have optimization for a handful of popularly benched games and be shit in the rest.
That's the AMD fan mantra, many of us have mentioned this in the past. It's always "well wait until..."
That's the AMD fan mantra, many of us have mentioned this in the past. It's always "well wait until..."
Bandalo
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I'm not an AMD fan, but it's way too early to be judging CF support. The drivers are practically a beta version for gaming on this thing, and SLI/CF support and scaling always sucks until a lot of driving tweaks are done.
I'll judge Vega based on single-card performance when it's released, with release drivers. But I'll give AMD and Nv a pass on CF/SLI until the cards and drivers have been out a month or three.
I'll judge Vega based on single-card performance when it's released, with release drivers. But I'll give AMD and Nv a pass on CF/SLI until the cards and drivers have been out a month or three.
DooKey
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This is what happens when you have some sort of emotional attachment to a company. Psychosis is probably a better term than fandom.
Not quite. In 2016, the US imported 25% of its petroleum products, of that 25%, only 11% comes from Saudi Arabia.
So 11% of 25% of the money I spent on gas went to Saudi Arabia (2.75%).
SighTurtle
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Month? Hes probably known about Vega's problems for at least two months.
Dayaks
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I disagree, but let's get specific.
I've tried both SLI and Crossfire as well. I have had 0, count them 0 issues with Crossfire in six + months of use on my Fury X pair. I've never had to disable it a single time to get a game working, (or even disable it to remedy a quirky performance issue). Everything has just worked -- and worked well! I've tried a lot of games out of my personal library. I've not noticed any microstutter whatsoever. Perhaps that's related to the fact I have three FreeSync monitors to pair with the Fury X - but I've watched videos of microstutter to see what it is -- and I can clearly see what it is in the videos - and yet I've not observed any of that, on any game with my Crossfire setup.
Here is a post discussing Crossfire being superior to SLI (more or less) from earlier in this thread: Post 23:
https://hardforum.com/threads/vega-rumors.1933112/#post-1042998090
Example:
But to be frank, benchmarks have shown this trend for years, Crossfire scales more strongly than SLI -- be it two cards, three cards, or four cards.
Here's a little more anecdotal evidence. Nobody mentions anything worthwhile that has issues currently
https://hardforum.com/threads/name-games-that-dont-work-with-crossfire.1930286/
as compared to a comparable thread on SLI Several people mention current gen games that have kinks, require disabling SLI for functionality, or to actually improve performance. My brother just in the last couple months gave up on SLI for ever. He said it was a pain in the rear constantly, and he wasn't doing it again. He had a pair of 970 cards for close to two years. During that time, we were both gaming frequenty and he was having headaches with SLI, and I was having none with Crossfire. (Ancedotal - yes - agreed -- but that's why I created these two threads -- to see if that experience was limited or broader?)
https://hardforum.com/threads/name-games-that-dont-work-with-sli.1930282/
In all fairness,
Right now I have two 1080 TIs in my machine, - I just got them in the last week for the purposes of mining. I'm going to try them for a while and see how they perform at gaming too. I'll try out SLI. With this experience, I'll be able to compare six months + of recent experiences with my Fury X Crossfired pair, against this new pair of 1080 TI cards in SLI on the same types of games. I'll relay the results in those threads above when I have some current experience under my belt. I've had no problems with Crossfire -- I hope to have no problems with SLI. We'll see.
That's great and all but if you look at reviews with frame times and not just avgs nVidia > AMD for mGPU but both frequently have issues. BF4 for instance would randomly break for both every now and then.
If you require an extra 30-40% (factoring in minimums) then have at it. A recent poll thread at [H] had 80% of people suggesting single GPU over mGPU so I know I am not alone in my experience.
Pieter3dnow
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Look at RX 480 and RX 580 both of the designs were an improvement but not by a lot. Expecting a leap in design while AMD already said it themselves that Vega is not going to do that makes it obvious that whatever expectations you might have it is not realistic.
And that is something which is troublesome I'm sure that many others wouldn't have mind seeing AMD doing better then this but expecting it is a bit weird.
Btw A year later on a design is in no way possible to adapt it. minor tweaks but a complete overhaul in a year that is never going to happen.
Tup3x
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Then they clearly did not say it properly what kind of card VEGA is. Certain red fans all over the web are fantasizing about GTX 1080 Ti killer. I guess it's the same people who thought that Polaris beats GTX 1070...
The rx480 and 580 were improvements over AMD's own products, but a step backwards vs the competition.
Show me these people please.
https://hardforum.com/threads/place-your-bets-on-vega.1931519/
Then why is it the AMD Flavor forum is like 4 AMD fans, and 300 people claiming they are "fanboys" and talking shit?
auntjemima
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Pieter3dnow
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I want to keep this on topic but if you want receipts or something. But when people are doing personal attacks and fail to read what I am saying just place your frustration on the poster and not on the message. You fail to contribute to the conversation, you just state that we need to do what you say because otherwise we are nuts after that you blame me for being a poser to what purpose is that? And yeah the prices for some organic chicken fillet are about 6 to 7 euro per 200 gram or something where I buy.
This is so true. I think most reasonable people have stopped posting in AMD threads.
There were quite a few before, January time frame, three or four people from Anandtech came over here, then another guy which I couldn't find where he came from pepper something, had some interesting arguments with him. Then he went rambling on to ryzen. Haven't seen him here since (the promise of a pre June launch too I I remember correctly). Still have the "firm" believers drivers are going to magically unlock performance. But for the most part I think since March time frame AMD has been showing us exactly what will come out, but still have a quite a few guys thinking otherwise. I remember quite a few people posted the WTF tech articles talking about Vega performance, yeah those were all not right.
- Better than 1080Ti
30 vote(s)
8.2% - Same as 1080Ti
28 vote(s)
7.7% - *
Better than 1080
126 vote(s)
34.6%
That is a large chuck of the %, around 50%.
Really 16% thought as good or better than the TI lol wow.
4 people don't make up that 16%, its many more than that.
now being a fan of ones hardware is OK, but understanding when they aren't living up fan hype is another. Still 16% is high when AMD has shown us 1080 level performance and that is the best they can show us at that point. So where is the 50% over all over the gtx 1080 come from? Yeah hyped to the moon.
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Pieter3dnow
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It is really simple , people guess or people just click on what they hope for. How many people would not buy a RX Vega if is was faster then a 1080TI ?
If they don't beat the GTX 1080 with RX VEGA then it has to be the price which would be compelling for people to buy it. The people that were hoping for it to be faster then the 1080TI was well against what was known at the time. (May 4 post date).
What a load of BS. RjMekanic rests his case.
He wasn't part of those discussions at the time, I was, I know exactly who those people are, I'm not going to list them out though, you can look back and check it up if you want to see
And the poll right there shows it, 16% of people thinking it was going to be faster or as good as than 1080ti (4 people no, 60 people, right there in the poll and this is his qoute)
, 50% thinking faster than a gtx 1080. And this was just a month and half ago. the FE is slower than that gtx 1080.
So its overhyped as always. Even though AMD showed GTX1080 in Doom Vulkan last year, where, AMD has a 10% advantage with released products over Pascal parts at the time comparative to other API's and games. End result the general consensus should have been Vega is slower than the gtx 1080 and optimistically equal to the GTX 1080, that didn't happen did it? Why only a month and half ago, people were thinking this but now it looks like much lower then expectations.
Yes his case is rested, the poll he linked to shows exactly what people were thinking and 50% of them most likely will be wrong.
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SixFootDuo
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Jeeze ......... why don't you guys just move on and move over to nVidia like I did. At some point ( 3 years ago ) you just gotta give up that fight like I did!
The fight over driver issues ( handled somewhat better these days ) and lower performance.
I just couldn't do it anymore.
And now this news. It's one ugly issue after another. I cringe at the thought of an AMD graphics card in my system. Like literally grimace and cringe. No thank you ... god no, please ....
Did I like spending $700 dollars on my 1080 Ti ? Hell no ............... But ... I have the fastest shit out there and I love the performance. If I had to spend a few hundred more then so be it.
You guys waiting around and hoping and praying on top of more waiting on top of disappointment on top of just a pile of bs just seem like a lot to endure.
The fight over driver issues ( handled somewhat better these days ) and lower performance.
I just couldn't do it anymore.
And now this news. It's one ugly issue after another. I cringe at the thought of an AMD graphics card in my system. Like literally grimace and cringe. No thank you ... god no, please ....
Did I like spending $700 dollars on my 1080 Ti ? Hell no ............... But ... I have the fastest shit out there and I love the performance. If I had to spend a few hundred more then so be it.
You guys waiting around and hoping and praying on top of more waiting on top of disappointment on top of just a pile of bs just seem like a lot to endure.
He wasn't part of those discussions at the time, I was, I know exactly who those people are, I'm not going to list them out though, you can look back and check it up if you want to see
And the poll right there shows it, 16% of people thinking it was going to be faster or as good as than 1080ti (4 people no, 60 people, right there in the poll and this is his qoute)
, 50% thinking faster than a gtx 1080. And this was just a month and half ago. the FE is slower than that gtx 1080.
So its overhyped as always. Even though AMD showed GTX1080 in Doom Vulkan last year, where, AMD has a 10% advantage with released products over Pascal parts at the time comparative to other API's and games. End result the general consensus should have been Vega is slower than the gtx 1080 and optimistically equal to the GTX 1080, that didn't happen did it? Why only a month and half ago, people were thinking this but now it looks like much lower then expectations.
Yes his case is rested, the poll he linked to shows exactly what people were thinking and 50% of them most likely will be wrong.
The 4 AMD fans vs 300 was a generalization, you know that, I don't know why you insist on hanging onto it.
But I will say, as far as Nvidia fanbois go, you are not the worst at all, most of the time you are at least still capable of discussion heh. But how many AMD guys do you see in the Nvidia section? I don't go in there, I don't use Nvidia cards, but I also don't come in the AMD section, because there is no discussion going on, there's one or 2 posts of information, and 50 posts of people talking shit.
I will handily admit that Pascal is outstanding. Green did an incredible job with it. I will say AMD Isn't competitive at the top end, and probably still will not be with Vega, I've stood beside the fact I think it will fall between the 1080 and TI for a long time now. That will not change my feelings of Nvidia as a company, their business practices, and how I feel they treat their customers. So I hope Vega will be good. Hell I wish Matrox or S3 would come out with something competitive heh.
oh ok generalization even then its not like that, its like 10 people that compare nV products on AMD products in the AMD threads, and that is only after AMD fans over hype shit. I don't respond to just anyone that posts up articles and what not, well if the articles are f'ed up I will. And that goes for most of the people. Also don't actively go into an AMD thread, unless there is a REASON to. Actually I don't think anyone does
Look there are many discussions going on, Look at Anarchists and Leldra's and mine just recently (earlier today and yesterday), discussions are there if people want to discuss, but most of the AMD threads, AMD guys don't want to discuss they want to write down their feelings and when I or others actually put a discussion down on paper, well it doesn't go very far, cause most of them don't understand or don't want to understand why its what we are saying is real or not real. I can probably pick out some eclectic feature of AMD GCN and show how much better it performs than on nV hardware, and it raises expectations like crazy. But that isn't realistic. And this is what AMD loyalists do, without fully understanding what those features are and how they impact applications. AMD might say something, but it isn't the end all.
From the start of Vega announcements, I have stated it looks like Vega isn't going to be much different that other GCN at least not from throughput point of view. The new pipeline stage probably has to do with almost all of their new features they have talked about thus far (or specific coding paths for them). And now we have Vega FE, and it sure looks more like that now doesn't it? I'm not making anything up, its educated guess based on information that AMD has provided (its not really a guess its more like a conjecture)
Sorry to bring this up again, but look at Ryzen threads, they didn't want to discuss the CCX problems, even in the CCX problem thread lol. Why, lots of people were getting pissed off when that problem was brought up. Why? Its a freakin problem with the architecture. Why are people taking it so personally.
When nV had their async problems with Maxwell, did nV fans get pissed off. No, cause that wasn't where the problem was (and it did not make sense why the problem was there in the first place), and later on we found out where the problem was, but all that time, no one was shunning the idea of something is going wrong.
AMD can feed us all the BS about how much better they are with DX12, and nV cards are only good for old DX's, nV cards can't do async. That is all BS, but it worked great the people that don't understand the nuts and bolts are still talking about those things! I remember Johanson and Sweeny on stage and Johanson stated something to that effect, Sweeny gave him a crazy eye. Why? Cause its BS. Anyone that thinks that way doesn't understand what engineering and programming is all about.
Why are people falling for AMD's marketing, cause they show only what they want to show and black list anyone from talking otherwise. Pretty pathetic for moral standards of a company.
We can sit here and say AMD's marketing isn't effective. its Damn effective, they just can't execute because of their products, the products don't live up to the marketing. There needs to be an even medium between the two and that isn't happening.
Right now, nV marketing is here is the product, it kicks ass, there you go. AMD has to do soooo much more and then not release the product for months on end. In that time fanboys hype the shit out their products and at the end its a disappointment. The last time AMD did "here is the product" was with the 9700 and they did it again with the 4xxx line. Guess what those products kicked ass.
I can say 100% at this time Vega marketing will be based on DX12 with DX12.1 tier 3 support for all features lol. Why do I think they will because Pascal doesn't have Tier 3 CRV's. But no damn engine uses CRV's yet! and engines won't in the short term and mid term because it will branch out console development entirely.
Look there are many discussions going on, Look at Anarchists and Leldra's and mine just recently (earlier today and yesterday), discussions are there if people want to discuss, but most of the AMD threads, AMD guys don't want to discuss they want to write down their feelings and when I or others actually put a discussion down on paper, well it doesn't go very far, cause most of them don't understand or don't want to understand why its what we are saying is real or not real. I can probably pick out some eclectic feature of AMD GCN and show how much better it performs than on nV hardware, and it raises expectations like crazy. But that isn't realistic. And this is what AMD loyalists do, without fully understanding what those features are and how they impact applications. AMD might say something, but it isn't the end all.
From the start of Vega announcements, I have stated it looks like Vega isn't going to be much different that other GCN at least not from throughput point of view. The new pipeline stage probably has to do with almost all of their new features they have talked about thus far (or specific coding paths for them). And now we have Vega FE, and it sure looks more like that now doesn't it? I'm not making anything up, its educated guess based on information that AMD has provided (its not really a guess its more like a conjecture)
Sorry to bring this up again, but look at Ryzen threads, they didn't want to discuss the CCX problems, even in the CCX problem thread lol. Why, lots of people were getting pissed off when that problem was brought up. Why? Its a freakin problem with the architecture. Why are people taking it so personally.
When nV had their async problems with Maxwell, did nV fans get pissed off. No, cause that wasn't where the problem was (and it did not make sense why the problem was there in the first place), and later on we found out where the problem was, but all that time, no one was shunning the idea of something is going wrong.
AMD can feed us all the BS about how much better they are with DX12, and nV cards are only good for old DX's, nV cards can't do async. That is all BS, but it worked great the people that don't understand the nuts and bolts are still talking about those things! I remember Johanson and Sweeny on stage and Johanson stated something to that effect, Sweeny gave him a crazy eye. Why? Cause its BS. Anyone that thinks that way doesn't understand what engineering and programming is all about.
Why are people falling for AMD's marketing, cause they show only what they want to show and black list anyone from talking otherwise. Pretty pathetic for moral standards of a company.
We can sit here and say AMD's marketing isn't effective. its Damn effective, they just can't execute because of their products, the products don't live up to the marketing. There needs to be an even medium between the two and that isn't happening.
Right now, nV marketing is here is the product, it kicks ass, there you go. AMD has to do soooo much more and then not release the product for months on end. In that time fanboys hype the shit out their products and at the end its a disappointment. The last time AMD did "here is the product" was with the 9700 and they did it again with the 4xxx line. Guess what those products kicked ass.
I can say 100% at this time Vega marketing will be based on DX12 with DX12.1 tier 3 support for all features lol. Why do I think they will because Pascal doesn't have Tier 3 CRV's. But no damn engine uses CRV's yet! and engines won't in the short term and mid term because it will branch out console development entirely.
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Pieter3dnow
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- Joined
- Jul 29, 2009
- Messages
- 6,784
These posts become rather silly , you are a good example of it. No one but you makes the decision to spend _your_ money.
Most sensible people wait till there is a review up for AMD cards , I'm guessing you did no different for your Nvidia purchase. Yet people on the AMD videocard forum spam so much miss information and others keep touting that you can not buy anything but Nvidia . Why is it that you bought product X then whine about it over in product Y forum there is something fundamentally wrong with this attitude..