[Vanguard] : Great timing or what?

M

MartinX

One Hour Martinizing While You Wait
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
7,184
Seriously, what marketing genius though it was a good idea to release any MMO less than a month after everybody in the entire world re-subscribed to WoW to try out the expansion.

Vanguard may be the shit, but that's really, really stupid timing.
 
MartinX said:
Seriously, what marketing genius though it was a good idea to release any MMO less than a month after everybody in the entire world re-subscribed to WoW to try out the expansion.

Vanguard may be the shit, but that's really, really stupid timing.
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The answer simply is, they ran out of money.

Seriously. It's either release now or not release at all.
 
Is Vanguard good? I had the beta downloaded a few days ago but I was hearing such horrible things about it that I didn't even try it. I might have to redownload.
 
My money's on the game being a failure, but maybe after a few months they can improve the quality.
 
From my experience with the beta, it's EQ2 v2... ie wait 6 months after release before trying it out.
 
I haven't tried it but i saw some videos and graphically it looks good. I have so many friends on xfire going back to wow this month, it is not even funny. Even if Vanguard turns out to be good. I don't expect it to sell for few months, however it is decent i would buy it.
 
Ran out of money? How do you come to that Conclusion? They have Sony Online Entertainment backing them and the last I heard Sony isn't anywhere near broke.:rolleyes:
They get Sony's marketing and distribution experience plus get to maintain Control of the game.

This game should do quite well for all those tired of WoW or EQ/EQ2. The game is/will be very deep and have quite good staying power. Brad McQuaid and Jeff Butler, the 2 genious's behind Everquest and the First EQ expansion have designed a game for the thinking man or woman and for the more mature player. The game will not be easy and it has imo the most potential of any MMO out there.

To those that say the game is broken I say pfft ! it's still in beta for a little while longer. (Release date to retail is Jan 30th ). EQ EQ2 and WoW all had bugs at release and well past release, I know, I played all three. While they are and I'm sure will be working out bugs and optimizing the game client for a bit, I have confidence in their abilities.

To me it is, or will be good enough that I cancelled my 2 year old Subscription to World of Warcraft. If Brad McQuaid & Jeff Butler and company can pull it off I'll be in Vanguard for a long, long time.

I got in Beta last weekend and so far am fairly impressed and hopefull. After I got my first toon in WoW to level 60 I quickly lost interest in the game, I don't like having to play nightly for hours just so I can get a decent armor or weapon drop. Also pretty fed up with the B-Net babies over there. WoW is a great game but doesn't have the staying power for me that Vanguard looks to have.

I played EQ2 for exactly 2 weeks then cancelled my subscription. IMO it is just an easier, prettier Everquest.

A lot of people compare Vanguard to EQ, EQ2 and while it may have similarities graphics wise, it's so much more. Diplomacy, Crafting, Killing baddies, 19 races a ton of classes fairly decent character customization ( for an MMO) , Though no game beats CoH/CoV for character customization. In Vanguard if you can see a landmark you can travel there. You can own mounts/ ships and a very cool part is unlike in EQ/EQ2 when on ship you sit bored and wait to cross the water, in Vanguard you can be attacked by Pirates or Seamonsters !! The list goes on and on. IMO VSoH will be the game for those that want to truly adventure and make the virtual world their own. http://www.vanguardsoh.com/faq.php

I give Vanguard Saga of Heroes a BIG two thumbs up !!!

:D
 
Kangg said:
Ran out of money? How do you come to that Conclusion? They have Sony Online Entertainment backing them and the last I heard Sony isn't anywhere near broke.:rolleyes:
They get Sony's marketing and distribution experience plus get to maintain Control of the game.

This game should do quite well for all those tired of WoW or EQ/EQ2. The game is/will be very deep and have quite good staying power. Brad McQuaid and Jeff Butler the 2 genious's behind Everquest and the First EQ expansion have designed a game for the thinking man or woman and for the more mature player. The game will not be easy and it has imo the most potential of any MMO out there.

To those that say the game is broken I say pfft ! it's still in beta for a little while longer. (Release date to retail is Jan 30th ). EQ EQ2 and WoW all had bugs at release and well past release, I know, I played all three.

To me it is, or will be good enough that I cancelled my 2 year old Subscription to World of Warcraft. IMO Vanguard SoH has the most potential of any MMO out there and if Brad McQuaid & Jeff Butler and company can pull it off I'll be in Vanguard for a long, long time.

I got in Beta last weekend and so far am fairly impressed and hopefull. After I got my first toon in WoW to level 60 I quickly lost interest in the game, I don't like having to play nightly for hours just so I can get a decent armor or weapon drop. Also pretty fed up with the B-Net babies over there. WoW is a great game but doesn't have the staying power for me that Vanguard looks to have.

I played EQ2 for exactly 2 weeks then cancelled my subscription. IMO it is just an easier, prettier Everquest.

A lot of people compare Vanguard to EQ, EQ2 and while it may have similarities graphics wise, it's so much more. Diplomacy, Crafting, Killing baddies, 19 races a ton of classes fairly decent character customization ( for an MMO) . Though no game beats CoH/CoV for character customization. In Vanguard if you can see a landmark you can travel there. You can own mounts/ ships and a very cool part is unlike EQ/EQ2 when on ship you sit bored and wait to cross the water, in Vanguard you can be attacked by Pirates or Seamonsters !! The list goes on and on. IMO VSoH will be the thinking man's/women's game for those that want to truly adventure and make the virtual world their own. http://www.vanguardsoh.com/faq.php

I give Vanguard Saga of Heroes a BIG two thumbs up !!!

:D
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It's the timing that sucks, not the game, all the trillions of WoW players who were getting bored and might have switched over will be hooked in by the new content in TBC and busily grinding to 70 and hoarding l337 epixx for a couple of more months, and many many players who had given up on WoW and already quit will/are sign back up to try it out, that pretty much captures both the casual and hard core players that Vanguard was presumably hoping to draw.

Based on what I've seen of the MMO market so far, they really need a strong start to get a foothold, and Vangaurd is going to face a serious uphill struggle purely because of logistics.
 
Ran out of money? How do you come to that Conclusion? They have Sony Online Entertainment backing them and the last I heard Sony isn't anywhere near broke.
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Heres a quote from brad mcquaid http://forums.vanguardsoh.com/showthread.php?p=1850125#post1850125

We all agree performance is #1 -- we expect to see about a 10% improvement by launch for low-mid level machines. There's only so much we can do in the time we have

We don't want to rush things but like I said we have a solid launch date. People are crunching and working long hours but the financial reality is we need to launch commercially, and soon.

I know that is not the answer you want to hear, nor I, but it is what it is and I've always been straight up with you guys. We will have a lot of work to do post-launch and the first couple of months post-launch will be just as busy as beta 5 with lots of patches, bug fixes, new features, etc. In that sense, things won't change.

I promise you we are doing the best we can with the time we have, even though we all, the players and Sigil wish we had more time, but like I said, there are financial realities. We are still I believe the 2nd most expensive MMOG to-date after WoW and that is something, despite the desire to have more time, I have to be grateful to both MSFT and SOE for.
-Brad McQuaid, CEO "
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So yes, they ran out of money, they admit they ran out of money and basically admitted that the game is going to be a complete shambles for at least the first 6-9 months. The reason for release as Brad stated is to get them some money so that they can survive. However the reputation they will pick up, will probably kill the game of any chance of becomming a hit.
 
Toytown said:
Heres a quote from brad mcquaid http://forums.vanguardsoh.com/showthread.php?p=1850125#post1850125



So yes, they ran out of money, they admit they ran out of money and basically admitted that the game is going to be a complete shambles for at least the first 6-9 months. The reason for release as Brad stated is to get them some money so that they can survive. However the reputation they will pick up, will probably kill the game of any chance of becomming a hit.
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This is really sad to read :confused: I mean Vanguard will never beat WoW, but releasing the game right after Burning Crusade, plus still being a Beta in a retail box will just kill this game off before it even get's a chance to compete. I mean the bad press alone saying it is still a Beta will not help, and how many customer's are willing to pay a monthly fee to still help test a game for a few months ?
 
Zorachus said:
This is really sad to read :confused: I mean Vanguard will never beat WoW, but releasing the game right after Burning Crusade, plus still being a Beta in a retail box will just kill this game off before it even get's a chance to compete. I mean the bad press alone saying it is still a Beta will not help, and how many customer's are willing to pay a monthly fee to still help test a game for a few months ?
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Well, I'm logged on to the game right now and the slightest hint of someone not liking Vanguard will result in a full on attack from rabid !!!!!!s. It's quite sad really because usually the only way things get fixed are from people that are able to provide constructive criticism rather than "OMG this game is so awesome!!!11". Some guy even had the nerve to tell me "Oh you can buy the game later and you'll be level 1 while everyone else is high level with cool weapons... ha ha!"

Umm...yeah.

That being said, there's lots of people willing to fund Sigil until they get Vanguard up to par. I'm waiting until at least March personally. For goodness sakes, there's only 4 hairstyles to choose from. What's up with that?
 
"That being said, there's lots of people willing to fund Sigil until they get Vanguard up to par. I'm waiting until at least March personally. For goodness sakes, there's only 4 hairstyles to choose from. What's up with that?"

Its BETA ! i beleave the's more hairstyles to come, keep your hair on!
 
kezmo said:
"That being said, there's lots of people willing to fund Sigil until they get Vanguard up to par. I'm waiting until at least March personally. For goodness sakes, there's only 4 hairstyles to choose from. What's up with that?"

Its BETA ! i beleave the's more hairstyles to come, keep your hair on!
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Umm, yes more hairstyles (and other basic things)are coming AFTER the game is being sold for money. You can only use the tired "It's beta!" for so long. Seriously, we all know that MMOs are evolutionary games but they are shipping with less and less stuff. Vanguard is the first MMO I've beta tested that doesn't have things like a more robust character creation system (after being hyped up for months), fluid character animations, and other things I'd consider standard for a game of this type to launch with.
 
I've been through enough beta tests to not fall for the "it's beta" line a good 2 weeks prior to release, if it's not up to par 2 weeks prior to release it won't be up to par when release comes around either.
Sorry, simple fact of life and proven time and time again in the past.

I also have to agree on the comments about their timing, slotting themselves right between BC and LOTRO is not the best of moves.
BC will mean less potential buyers at launch and LOTRO looks to be setting itself up as an alternative for disappointed early VG players to flock to.

Pity really, I was actually quite looking forward to this one... but for now it's off my 'to buy' list
 
Kangg said:
Ran out of money? How do you come to that Conclusion? They have Sony Online Entertainment backing them and the last I heard Sony isn't anywhere near broke.:rolleyes:
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Just 'cause Sony has obscene amounts of cash doesn't mean they're going to dump a billion dollars into a single MMO. The developer is on a budget, and once they've overshot it by enough, Sony will just stop handing over money.
 
ryuen said:
I've been through enough beta tests to not fall for the "it's beta" line a good 2 weeks prior to release, if it's not up to par 2 weeks prior to release it won't be up to par when release comes around either.
Sorry, simple fact of life and proven time and time again in the past.
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QFT.

There's just no way to tweak, QA and ship in two weeks, how it is now is what will be in the stores.
 
Vanguard is just not fun to play. It reminds me of EQ1 or DaoC. (playing since beta2)

WoW is fun to play, but I'm not a fan of cartoonish graphics for style or mass hardware compatibility. Also the player base are a lot of idiot b.net kiddies. Although 8 million subscribers is a testament to their mainstream mass marketing vision.

EQ2 has a lot to do and nice graphics. There is more to do at the end lvl of 70 than WoW had for their end lvl 60. The crafting can be a game all unto itself. Also if you played EQ1 there is a lot of nostalgia.

I'm torn, I pre-ordered the Burning Crusades before I got bored of WoW and didn't want to PvP and stopped playing 8 months ago. I'm tempted to try WoW again, but EQ2 while lower number of players, is a more mature product.

I always said content starts you playing an MMO and your friends in the game keep you playing.
 
Just so you know where I'm coming from, I'm still playing Everquest mostly a raider with a solid long time group of friends online. I've maintained my account since release and generally played every few days for four hours or so and for progression stints I've played nightly when RL allowed (I got started in EQ Beta 1). We are roughly one expansion behind current content so we're not fanatical hardcore people but we are definitely not casual players either. That's for perspective.

I've been following Vanguard's development for years. Vanguard is FAR and away more stable than EQ was at this stage. It also has more depth and a smoother overall design. The $s to enjoyment ratio of EQ has is at least twice of ANY other game I've ever played and I generally go ahead and buy and play them all, at least all the big named titles. A dozen plus games a year. Nothing compares to EQ in time of not being bored and enjoying myself.

I would imagine there are enough people like me to keep Vanguard rolling just fine. If the small amount of money that it requires to play stings your budget, then by all means don't buy it. If you're not giving the company your $s on principle... then I think you're a bit too uptight to be a gaming enthusiast and you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

Being self righteous about a video game seems a bit out of perspective to me but that's just my opinion. It's PURE entertainment at these points. There is no real redeeming quality to the products. Complete escapism and hedonism at it's most basic level.

I buy a few games a year just because I thought one portion of the game design was novel or interesting even though the overall game experience was poor. New approaches and interesting ideas are the kind of thing I'd like to support in the industry.

If it's bad enough it'll flop and they'll have to go through larger hurdles to get the next one made so the industry's perverted evolution will run it's course. Sigil has my cash for a collector's edition and a year's subscription even if the game sucks at release. Hopefully it'll be half as fun as EQ has been.

p.s. My Beta experience has been fairly good so far other than poorer FPS than I would expect out of my hardware but that has been improving. I'm not playing heavily, just doing whatever stress tests they ask of us because I'm waiting for most of my friends to play. It always seems that the folks that don't hook up with good people in MMOs are always the ones complaining about how bad they suck. I don't think that's a coincidence.
 
diableri said:
Just so you know where I'm coming from, I'm still playing Everquest mostly a raider with a solid long time group of friends online. I've maintained my account since release and generally played every few days for four hours or so and for progression stints I've played nightly when RL allowed (I got started in EQ Beta 1). We are roughly one expansion behind current content so we're not fanatical hardcore people but we are definitely not casual players either. That's for perspective.

I've been following Vanguard's development for years. Vanguard is FAR and away more stable than EQ was at this stage. It also has more depth and a smoother overall design. The $s to enjoyment ratio of EQ has is at least twice of ANY other game I've ever played and I generally go ahead and buy and play them all, at least all the big named titles. A dozen plus games a year. Nothing compares to EQ in time of not being bored and enjoying myself.

I would imagine there are enough people like me to keep Vanguard rolling just fine. If the small amount of money that it requires to play stings your budget, then by all means don't buy it. If you're not giving the company your $s on principle... then I think you're a bit too uptight to be a gaming enthusiast and you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

Being self righteous about a video game seems a bit out of perspective to me but that's just my opinion. It's PURE entertainment at these points. There is no real redeeming quality to the products. Complete escapism and hedonism at it's most basic level.

I buy a few games a year just because I thought one portion of the game design was novel or interesting even though the overall game experience was poor. New approaches and interesting ideas are the kind of thing I'd like to support in the industry.

If it's bad enough it'll flop and they'll have to go through larger hurdles to get the next one made so the industry's perverted evolution will run it's course. Sigil has my cash for a collector's edition and a year's subscription even if the game sucks at release. Hopefully it'll be half as fun as EQ has been.

p.s. My Beta experience has been fairly good so far other than poorer FPS than I would expect out of my hardware but that has been improving. I'm not playing heavily, just doing whatever stress tests they ask of us because I'm waiting for most of my friends to play. It always seems that the folks that don't hook up with good people in MMOs are always the ones complaining about how bad they suck. I don't think that's a coincidence.
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Good post. This game is not for everybody. If you like wow, keep playing it. If you are board of wow, give it a try. Stop listening to people stating their opinions on the game and test drive it yourself.

You may hate it or love it, you never know till you try.:)
 
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