Valve to Face Antitrust Lawsuit Over Steam Gaming Platform

[vegeta535]

I find it funny how some of you people defend Valves practice but yet buy your keys from other sites. Primarily from questionable grey key sites. What ever makes you feel good on the inside I guess.

 

[ZodaEX]

I'd love for Steam to go out of business. Not having a customer support phone number is unacceptable when their online support is as bad as it is.

 

[DukenukemX]

If you’re buying a CD key that is usable ‘everywhere’ the implication is that the dev gets 100% of the money.

If you cut out the middle man like Steam then yes.

aw
Or alternatively if the cd key seller makes some fraction of the sale, since all keys would become valid everywhere, it would be a race to the bottom in terms of “cd key” prices. Meaning basically grey marker sellers win the day.

Consumers would win as well.

Why would Valve want to support anyone that has paid them no money? Why should they be forced to provide a service for someone who has paid them no money?

Who says Valve would be involved? Let the content creators host their own games. It's not hard or even costly considering how many methods that's used to do it. Pirates do it all the time out of the goodness of their hearts. All Steam would be needed is to point consumers to the right host. Lots of websites do it just for the data collection they can sell.

It would be better to just be a key seller that doesn’t have to provide any of the hosting, advertising, support, or other services. Go back to letting the devs provide all that then.

Yes

What happened? So far all I can see is that Epic is bleeding cash through giving out free games and paying for lock-ins

This is not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about how Epic created a price war that really needed to happen because Steam was so dominant. Not just Steam but Apple and Google as well. Now the money goes to the people who deserve it, the game developers. Epic spending money to make money is not something anyone should shed a tear over.

(Tim Sweeney himself stating that the Epic game store is a loss leader and likely will be for some time) and that most of the community is annoyed at 1 year lock-ins and more or less just waits for games to be available on Steam.

Time Sweeney has a conflict of interest here, so anything he says is worth shit. This is the same guy who said the PS5's SSD was the best thing since sliced bread, and then we find out he's been working with Sony for years.

You want market share then do it the right way. Go out and make new games. Epic's Unreal engine is named after their Unreal game, which they haven't made a sequel to the franchise, let alone a good one in over a decade. Buying up games and then taking them away from customers is a great way to piss them off. I'm still not happy losing Rocket League on Linux, because Epic has no Linux Launcher, won't likely have one in the foreseeable future. Valve at least spent money on developers that nobody else would. Valve didn't buy Portal, they funded Portal's creation, as well as many other games like Counter Strike, DOTA, and etc.

Oh and that there is no games provided on any other launcher that isn’t also on Steam other than Epics paid for time launches? If Epic is so great why not just be exclusive with them forever then and always get the bigger cut? Simply because you make less money.

Epic's problem with retaining customers has a lot more problems than just giving developers better cuts of the sales.

As much as you don’t want to admit it, getting a bigger cut from Epic pales in comparison from the much larger amount of total sales devs get from Steam. You’re acting as if Epic is Valve’s first competition. They’re not and they’ve done little to disuade people from shopping and preferring Steam.

I didn't say I wanted to or not. I'm just stating that Epic started a pricing war and that's a good thing for everyone. We don't lose. Consumers don't lose. Epic may lose but Epic has a lot to learn when it comes to making an online store work. Epic was hoping their Fortnite games success would rub off onto their store, and that didn't work out that way. They started buying other games preventing customers from buying them at other stores. Their store lacks features that Steam has like Linux support.

Heck, I bet CDPR gets more money from Valve than they do from GOG.

Basically the Epic Games store is a joke. You’re trying to use it as an example, but frankly it’s a completely unsustainable business model. If Epic didn’t have money pouring in from the Unreal Engine, there wouldn’t even be a TGS. A failing business is not a replacement for a good one.

You're missing the point here. We don't care how profitable they become, we just care they are there to give competition. It's not my or your job to care how profitable they are. That's their job, and if they can't do it then hire someone who can. Last I remember people loved GOG, but hated Epic. I can give them advice on what they're doing wrong but again that's not what we're talking about here. If Steam was the only game in town then who's going to regulate their prices? If Tim Sweeney wants to throw his money around to buy up current existing IP and games offered to other stores without providing any sort of benefit to the consumer then that's his mistake. You don't see GOG doing that.

Keep in mind that Steam's popularity for a lot of people is the ability to redeem keys bought from other sources. I haven't bought a game directly from Steam in many years. You know, those websites people hate because the keys may or may not be stolen? This also includes websites like Humble bundle, though I haven't bought a game from them in years. They just started to suck in my opinion. In any cause, most of those keys are only redeemable on Steam. You don't see that with Epic games, though I've seen some for GOG. MAMA raise no fool, so I do shop around. I never pay full price, and I never buy the first thing I see. Maybe another reason Epic isn't gaining any popularity?

 

[Armenius]

People unwilling to buy from anywhere but Steam because they want all their stuff in the same place is what gives Valve the power to demand such high cut, and allegedly bully developers around by not allowing them to sell for cheaper elsewhere.

If people didn't have that mentality there could be much better competition between stores, not only directly to consumers, but also between the develoeprs and the stores.

A lot of people don't care where they buy a game, but there are also a lot of people that want them all on Steam.


I don't know if that makes anything Valve did illegal or whatever, but I know for certain it has negative affects that far outweight the positive.

Competition requires a compelling product. EGS is basically featureless when compared to Steam. Why would I all of a sudden start buying games from Epic when they can't compete on the most basic levels?

This is not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about how Epic created a price war that really needed to happen because Steam was so dominant. Not just Steam but Apple and Google as well. Now the money goes to the people who deserve it, the game developers. Epic spending money to make money is not something anyone should shed a tear over.

Remember when Swiney promised lower game prices for the consumer due to the lower revenue sharing model? Still waiting for that to happen. Epic's business model is causing developers to take the bribes and pocket the extra profit from additional sales, whatever sales there are to be had beyond the conditions of said bribes. Price war, my ass. Steam has literally done nothing to answer Epic since the EGS came onto the scene, and their customer base just continues to swell.

Epic's problem with retaining customers has a lot more problems than just giving developers better cuts of the sales.

Yes, they fostered a community who demands the latest AAA games all be given away for free. None of Epic's users want to spend money on their shitty launcher.

You're missing the point here. We don't care how profitable they become, we just care they are there to give competition. It's not my or your job to care how profitable they are. That's their job, and if they can't do it then hire someone who can. Last I remember people loved GOG, but hated Epic. I can give them advice on what they're doing wrong but again that's not what we're talking about here. If Steam was the only game in town then who's going to regulate their prices? If Tim Sweeney wants to throw his money around to buy up current existing IP and games offered to other stores without providing any sort of benefit to the consumer then that's his mistake. You don't see GOG doing that.

That would be fine if Epic were actually providing competition, but they're not. The only thing Epic is doing is being a thorn in everybody's side, trying to force the market to move their way through frivolous lawsuits and backdoor deals.

 

[Lakados]

Remember when Swiney promised lower game prices for the consumer due to the lower revenue sharing model? Still waiting for that to happen. Epic's business model is causing developers to take the bribes and pocket the extra profit from additional sales, whatever sales there are to be had beyond the conditions of said bribes. Price war, my ass. Steam has literally done nothing to answer Epic since the EGS came onto the scene, and their customer base just continues to swell.

What if they can’t because lowering the price in EGS would cause it to get pulled from Steam? So they have to price match as the OP states.

 

[Armenius]

What if they can’t because lowering the price in EGS would cause it to get pulled from Steam? So they have to price match as the OP states.

Then lower the base price everywhere you sell the game.

 

[Lakados]

Then lower the base price everywhere you sell the game.

but if 75% of your sales come from steam and the remaining 25% from everywhere else (as is the current situation for most developers) then how much could you lower it on steam to maintain your margin?
Assuming an initial price of $69.99, and that 75% of the sales come from Steam and the remaining 25% from everywhere else they could drop their price $2.50.
Assuming an initial price of an indie game to be ~$30, they could drop the price a dollar give or take $0.10
Not exactly something meaningful assuming they have to keep their prices the same across all of them, but if they were allowed to have different prices across the platforms you could in theory see price differences as much as 20% between the stores, so a AAA title in Steam would normally launch for say $69.99, but on EGS could then sell for $56

 

[Newbie_52]

But do any of the other stores allow this, i doubt epic would allow too many devs to have their games on other storefronts with a standard lower price than egs?

 

[Lakados]

But do any of the other stores allow this, i doubt epic would allow too many devs to have their games on other storefronts with a standard lower price than egs?

Given EPIC's take on the sales, it would be very very hard for anybody to currently sell it for less than they could, with the exception of maybe Microsoft in their store without actually taking a loss on it. But in the brick-and-mortar world, there is almost always somewhere you can find the same item cheaper. So you support the business you want to, but if prices are fixed everywhere are you going to shop at the nice fancy building that is well maintained and has everything you want under one roof, or are you going to the beat-up Kmart on the other side of town?

 

[sharknice]

Competition requires a compelling product. EGS is basically featureless when compared to Steam. Why would I all of a sudden start buying games from Epic when they can't compete on the most basic levels?

Remember when Swiney promised lower game prices for the consumer due to the lower revenue sharing model? Still waiting for that to happen. Epic's business model is causing developers to take the bribes and pocket the extra profit from additional sales, whatever sales there are to be had beyond the conditions of said bribes. Price war, my ass. Steam has literally done nothing to answer Epic since the EGS came onto the scene, and their customer base just continues to swell.

Yes, they fostered a community who demands the latest AAA games all be given away for free. None of Epic's users want to spend money on their shitty launcher.

That would be fine if Epic were actually providing competition, but they're not. The only thing Epic is doing is being a thorn in everybody's side, trying to force the market to move their way through frivolous lawsuits and backdoor deals.

Nah. You are very oppinonated on things that the majroity of people don't care about or even disagree with.

I've bought more games of EGS recently than Steam.

I actually prefer EGS over Steam now. I can download and update/install games about 5X as fast on EGS over Steam. That's basically all I care about. EGS isn't missing any features that I want.

Steam has a ton of features but to me it's just bloatware filled with things I don't care about.

I rarely even open Steam anymore. I used to have it running all the time mostly for the friends list, but Discord has taken that over and is much better at it than Steam. There is nothing I use Steam for anymore, all the games I play right now are on EGS or their own branch specific launchers. I even switched from launching Smite on Steam to EGS because Steam would occasionally cause crashes, and EGS updates the game faster.

I don't even load up Steam to look at the Steam sales anymore. Instead of paying a few dollars to add games to my library I'll never play EGS has supplied me with 100s of free games I never play. Actually some of them are great and I play them a lot. I've been playing a lot of Second Extinction lately.

 

[Ranulfo]

How large of a simple of games of Wolfire level of publisher size/power did you bought at a significant lower price elsewhere ?

Eh, lots of them over the past 3-5 years through humble bundles and other bundle sites. Are you going to go after the consoles too for their 30% cut and pricing structure? In most cases for PC games, especially new ones if I want to buy on GoG I am paying more to get the DRM free version because there are so many discount stores like Humble, Greenman gaming or Fanatical. This is especially true during the big Steam sales as its the devs/publishers who seem to have wonky pricing on GoG. Last holiday sales it was literally cheaper to rebuy Wasteland 3 on Steam for the gold/ultimate edition than the $20 Season pass only on GoG where I owned the base game. That usually happens with all Paradox and Slitherine published games on GoG vs Steam too.

Rimworld is sold on the dev's website and Steam or Gog. The dev's site will grant you Steam keys too. However, they never have sale prices. I've seen GoG, Steam and Steam key sellers put Rimworld on sale for 10-20% off at times.

TLDR: For all their complaining these game makers play the pricing game on their products all the time, no matter the store. Marketing 101 and PR nonsense in the end to maximize their profits.

 

[LukeTbk]

Are you going to go after the consoles too for their 30% cut and pricing structure?

What do I have to do with anything ? I did not do anything I am not sure I have any opinion on the subject. One it depend how true the allegation are but even if true, I fully understand why a selling but do more than that platform would ask their sellers those conditions, specially when the visibility to be on such platform has a lot of value by itself.

Paradox is a big one versus (it is an international studio that publish other people game has well, I would not imagine they got spoken too like a Wolffire Games) and I would imagine a lot of those unwritten condition could be time limited if they exist, not something they hold them for years.

 

[Newbie_52]

Given EPIC's take on the sales, it would be very very hard for anybody to currently sell it for less than they could, with the exception of maybe Microsoft in their store without actually taking a loss on it. But in the brick-and-mortar world, there is almost always somewhere you can find the same item cheaper. So you support the business you want to, but if prices are fixed everywhere are you going to shop at the nice fancy building that is well maintained and has everything you want under one roof, or are you going to the beat-up Kmart on the other side of town?

But which is it? They are saying valve is controlling prices and not allowing sales cheaper than steam store. But it seems epic is cheaper?

 

[Gorankar]

Lets get rid of Valve so something exactly like it, but less useful, or nothing at all, can take it's place?
Not saying there is no case to be made and that maybe Valve couldn't be a bit more generous with it's terms, but I don't see Valve being broken up, restructured, or castrated benefitting me or other consumers.
If Valve was gone tomorrow, I would be using GOG or Torrent/Usenet, not EGS, or direct from the site of some indie dev I have never heard of. So it's not benefitting indie dev I never heard of either.

I suspect Epic is bankrolling this suit. Staying tuned.

 

[Lakados]

But which is it? They are saying valve is controlling prices and not allowing sales cheaper than steam store. But it seems epic is cheaper?

Valve probably stops caring about competing prices after a year. Something like 90% of the sales from a game happen in that first year after that your fighting over peanuts and there’s no point. But that’s what their claiming so?? That’s on them to prove, I fall into that remaining 10%, hell I’m looking forward to finally getting around to Dragon Age Inquisition this weekend.

 

[GiGaBiTe]

I'd love for Steam to go out of business. Not having a customer support phone number is unacceptable when their online support is as bad as it is.

I'd love for steam to die off too. The software has always been a bloated and buggy pile of trash that drastically affects system performance. Back when it came out in 2002/2003, computers with 256 MB of RAM were the norm, and Steam ate up a significant chunk of that. I remember constantly fighting with "out of memory" problems due to Steam having horrible memory leaks and not being able to launch HL. I played on the WON version of HL up until it was turned off because performance of that version of HL was so much better.

Every iteration of Steam since then has gotten progressively more bloated with useless features, until the current version which is basically a web browser modified to look like a program. "steamwebhelper" not only uses absurd amounts of memory *doing absolutely nothing*, it also eats tons of CPU and even GPU time. Even if you put Steam in "small mode", it doesn't kill off the steamwebhelper and it will continue to eat system resources. I have to go into the task manager constantly and kill all of them because they'll chew up so much GPU time that my web browsers video decoding will turn into a slideshow, and I have a GTX 1070 Ti, to put it into perspective how shit Steam still is after TWENTY YEARS.

 

[Newbie_52]

I'd love for steam to die off too. The software has always been a bloated and buggy pile of trash that drastically affects system performance. Back when it came out in 2002/2003, computers with 256 MB of RAM were the norm, and Steam ate up a significant chunk of that. I remember constantly fighting with "out of memory" problems due to Steam having horrible memory leaks and not being able to launch HL. I played on the WON version of HL up until it was turned off because performance of that version of HL was so much better.

Every iteration of Steam since then has gotten progressively more bloated with useless features, until the current version which is basically a web browser modified to look like a program. "steamwebhelper" not only uses absurd amounts of memory *doing absolutely nothing*, it also eats tons of CPU and even GPU time. Even if you put Steam in "small mode", it doesn't kill off the steamwebhelper and it will continue to eat system resources. I have to go into the task manager constantly and kill all of them because they'll chew up so much GPU time that my web browsers video decoding will turn into a slideshow, and I have a GTX 1070 Ti, to put it into perspective how shit Steam still is after TWENTY YEARS.

Not sure if serious, I think i have all the launchers running at same time usually and they have little to no impact to my system. Maybe I'm lucky

 

[GiGaBiTe]

Not sure if serious, I think i have all the launchers running at same time usually and they have little to no impact to my system. Maybe I'm lucky

Steam in small mode doing fuck all with nothing else open USING 2,152 MEGABYTES OF RAM.

Steam is a steaming pile of shit.

And no, this is not a Linux specific problem. Windows machines have the exact same problems.

 

[NightReaver]

View attachment 473119

Steam in small mode doing fuck all with nothing else open USING 2,152 MEGABYTES OF RAM.

Steam is a steaming pile of shit.

And no, this is not a Linux specific problem. Windows machines have the exact same problems.

Huh, that's odd. My steam is using about 500mb tops while playing a game. Main client around 350mb and a few webhelpers starting at 100, then 25, and then into single digits from there.

 

[GiGaBiTe]

Huh, that's odd. My steam is using about 500mb tops while playing a game. Main client around 350mb and a few webhelpers starting at 100, then 25, and then into single digits from there.

Every machine I've installed Steam on, or seen Steam installed in the past 20 years has ALWAYS had stupid high memory, CPU and with Webkit now, GPU usage. Always doing absolutely nothing sitting in small mode.

It's trash software made by a trash company. If you've ever looked at the HL and HL2 engine source code, it gives plenty of hints as to why software written by Valve is absolute garbage. Every piece of software they touch turns into bloated rot full of ugly hacks and bolted on kludges to work around prior problems, they never go back and try to fix things the right way.

 

[UnknownSouljer]

was

I'd love for steam to die off too.

Use something else. Killing Steam for everyone just because it bugs you is pretty absurd.
Not that either of our opinions matter here.

Lets get rid of Valve so something exactly like it, but less useful, or nothing at all, can take it's place?

Basically this.

 

[NightReaver]

Every machine I've installed Steam on, or seen Steam installed in the past 20 years has ALWAYS had stupid high memory, CPU and with Webkit now, GPU usage. Always doing absolutely nothing sitting in small mode.

It's trash software made by a trash company. If you've ever looked at the HL and HL2 engine source code, it gives plenty of hints as to why software written by Valve is absolute garbage. Every piece of software they touch turns into bloated rot full of ugly hacks and bolted on kludges to work around prior problems, they never go back and try to fix things the right way.

I mean hey, you posted your numbers so I don't doubt ya. It's just weird I'm using 1/4 of the ram lol.

 

[Newbie_52]

That is still odd, i've never seen steam use that much memory on any machine i've ever used, even linux machines. mine was using about only 400mb, even got it down to around 60 mb when using this launch option. it removes the webhelper processes - "C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steam.exe" -no-browser +open steam://open/minigameslist

 

[GiGaBiTe]

was

Use something else. Killing Steam for everyone just because it bugs you is pretty absurd.
Not that either of our opinions matter here.

There's no reason Steam or other platforms trying to be Steam to ever have existed in the first place. You don't need a resource siphoning application always running in the background just to run a game, application or play media. The only reason Steam exists is because of DRM. All of the other features it provides are not required and are covered by many other programs and services that you don't need running all the time.

Computer games got along fine for decades before Steam existed, and will continue to do long after Steam ceases to exist at some point in the future.

 

[NightReaver]

There's no reason Steam or other platforms trying to be Steam to ever have existed in the first place. You don't need a resource siphoning application always running in the background just to run a game, application or play media. The only reason Steam exists is because of DRM. All of the other features it provides are not required and are covered by many other programs and services that you don't need running all the time.

Computer games got along fine for decades before Steam existed, and will continue to do long after Steam ceases to exist at some point in the future.

Eh, I like steam workshop. Sue me.

 

[UnknownSouljer]

There's no reason Steam or other platforms trying to be Steam to ever have existed in the first place. You don't need a resource siphoning application always running in the background just to run a game, application or play media. The only reason Steam exists is because of DRM. All of the other features it provides are not required and are covered by many other programs and services that you don't need running all the time.

Computer games got along fine for decades before Steam existed, and will continue to do long after Steam ceases to exist at some point in the future.

No. The reason why Steam exists is to be a form of distribution that bypasses the need for the physical distribution of media.
Simply by giving access to anyone to purchase games, not needing to print or create anything, and cutting out physical retailers have allowed game manufacturers to go from losing 60% to Steam's much more reasonable 30% and increased possible sales exponentially. And by doing this, lower the barrier to entry so that basically any tiny company can make and deliver a game with reasonable assurance.
Things like DRM are "features" that got added along the way - which isn't really something Valve pushed for, but is something their partners (IE game devs and/or Publishers) have requested.

Again: there is nothing preventing you from using something else to get games. And if the particular game you want isn't available on the platform you want, in the way you want, that has little to do with Steam - and has everything to do with that vendor not placing their games on a platform that doesn't have these things you view as problems.
Steam dying wouldn't magically give you a different or other platform that doesn't already exist to get your games.

 

[GiGaBiTe]

No. The reason why Steam exists is to be a form of distribution that bypasses the need for the physical distribution of media.

The point you're trying to make is? Digital downloads of games existed long before Steam ever came along, and they didn't require intrusive bloated always on launchers to be run in the background. The only purpose of Steam is DRM. Steam's DRM also existed from the beginning of the platform, long before any third parties ever started using it.

Simply by giving access to anyone to purchase games, not needing to print or create anything, and cutting out physical retailers have allowed game manufacturers to go from losing 60% to Steam's much more reasonable 30% and increased possible sales exponentially. And by doing this, lower the barrier to entry so that basically any tiny company can make and deliver a game with reasonable assurance.

You don't need a always on parasitic application running in the background for digital game distribution. Case and point, GOG.com. But even long before they existed, digital game and game content downloads existed. Retail was certainly a requirement back in the day though because most people were on dialup or ISDN lines that were 128k at best. But many game companies could be ordered from directly, they weren't always hit with retail tax.

Things like DRM are "features" that got added along the way - which isn't really something Valve pushed for, but is something their partners (IE game makers) have requested.

Completely false. Steam has had DRM from the beginning when the platform was launched. It was a requirement for Steam to be running and connected to the internet for the original HL games to run on Steam. While Offline mode was a thing, it did not work well, and still required the user to connect to Valve's servers at least once for it to work for a variable period of time.

The original WON release of HL games had no such requirements, you could play the games the moment you finished installing them from the CD.

 

[UnknownSouljer]

The point you're trying to make is? Digital downloads of games existed long before Steam ever came along, and they didn't require intrusive bloated always on launchers to be run in the background. The only purpose of Steam is DRM. Steam's DRM also existed from the beginning of the platform, long before any third parties ever started using it.



You don't need a always on parasitic application running in the background for digital game distribution. Case and point, GOG.com. But even long before they existed, digital game and game content downloads existed. Retail was certainly a requirement back in the day though because most people were on dialup or ISDN lines that were 128k at best. But many game companies could be ordered from directly, they weren't always hit with retail tax.



Completely false. Steam has had DRM from the beginning when the platform was launched. It was a requirement for Steam to be running and connected to the internet for the original HL games to run on Steam. While Offline mode was a thing, it did not work well, and still required the user to connect to Valve's servers at least once for it to work for a variable period of time.

The original WON release of HL games had no such requirements, you could play the games the moment you finished installing them from the CD.

My response is: ok.
I don't think there is really a point in discussing any of your other points and the validity of them.
Buy from somewhere else. Steam doesn't need to die for you to find a different platform. If you hate them as much as you purport, it should be pretty easy to avoid. End of story.

 

[ZodaEX]

My response is: ok.
I don't think there is really a point in discussing any of your other points and the validity of them.
Buy from somewhere else. Steam doesn't need to die for you to find a different platform. If you hate them as much as you purport, it should be pretty easy to avoid. End of story.

That's like saying "It should be pretty easy to avoid having to pay child support. Just don't stick your dick in a girl in the first place".
We've already clearly already obtained some games on Steam. Once one of your games is already on Steam, it's not necessarily easy to get the game off of it.

 

[DooKey]

I mean hey, you posted your numbers so I don't doubt ya. It's just weird I'm using 1/4 of the ram lol.

His problem is a Linux problem. Steam on Windows only uses around 500mb of RAM in small mode.

 

[Lakados]

View attachment 473119

Steam in small mode doing fuck all with nothing else open USING 2,152 MEGABYTES OF RAM.

Steam is a steaming pile of shit.

And no, this is not a Linux specific problem. Windows machines have the exact same problems.

Have you disabled animated avatars and GPU browser acceleration?? That causes webhelper to absolutely shit the bed in Linux.

taskkill /F /IM "steamwebhelper.exe"

Is your friend.

 

[Armenius]

Nah. You are very oppinonated on things that the majroity of people don't care about or even disagree with.

I've bought more games of EGS recently than Steam.

I actually prefer EGS over Steam now. I can download and update/install games about 5X as fast on EGS over Steam. That's basically all I care about. EGS isn't missing any features that I want.

Steam has a ton of features but to me it's just bloatware filled with things I don't care about.

I rarely even open Steam anymore. I used to have it running all the time mostly for the friends list, but Discord has taken that over and is much better at it than Steam. There is nothing I use Steam for anymore, all the games I play right now are on EGS or their own branch specific launchers. I even switched from launching Smite on Steam to EGS because Steam would occasionally cause crashes, and EGS updates the game faster.

I don't even load up Steam to look at the Steam sales anymore. Instead of paying a few dollars to add games to my library I'll never play EGS has supplied me with 100s of free games I never play. Actually some of them are great and I play them a lot. I've been playing a lot of Second Extinction lately.

Then you are in the minority. Money spent on third-party games in 2021 dropped to $1.55 per user. People are spending less on the EGS as time goes by.

https://store.epicgames.com/en-US/news/epic-games-store-2021-year-in-review

Completely false. Steam has had DRM from the beginning when the platform was launched. It was a requirement for Steam to be running and connected to the internet for the original HL games to run on Steam. While Offline mode was a thing, it did not work well, and still required the user to connect to Valve's servers at least once for it to work for a variable period of time.

DRM is completely optional on Steam. Cyberpunk 2077 on Steam is DRM-free just like the GOG version. You can launch it without Steam running. It's the decision of the developer/publisher if they want to use DRM in their games, Steamworks or otherwise.

https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/The_big_list_of_DRM-free_games_on_Steam

 

[Bankie]

His problem is a Linux problem. Steam on Windows only uses around 500mb of RAM in small mode.

The hilarious part is that Linux would still be nigh unusable for gaming if not for Valve's efforts.

 

[DukenukemX]

Remember when Swiney promised lower game prices for the consumer due to the lower revenue sharing model? Still waiting for that to happen.

There was a time when Epic did have a sale on a number of games that angered some publishers because they didn't want lower prices to be the norm. Epic was even the ones who paid for the difference out of their pocket. So it did happen but the publishers are being assholes about it.

Epic's business model is causing developers to take the bribes and pocket the extra profit from additional sales, whatever sales there are to be had beyond the conditions of said bribes. Price war, my ass. Steam has literally done nothing to answer Epic since the EGS came onto the scene, and their customer base just continues to swell.

I think what Epic has done certainly caused a market response. Even Microsoft is trying to play the same game.

Yes, they fostered a community who demands the latest AAA games all be given away for free. None of Epic's users want to spend money on their shitty launcher.

Epics problem, not ours. We're not here to foster their business model. We're consumers and we shouldn't care how the product gets to our hands. If they fail then they fail, and someone else will pick up where they left off.

That would be fine if Epic were actually providing competition, but they're not. The only thing Epic is doing is being a thorn in everybody's side, trying to force the market to move their way through frivolous lawsuits and backdoor deals.

Again, this is Epics problem. They need to learn to fund new games instead of taking existing games away from other stores. You know, like how Microsoft and Sony are doing by buying up major studios like Zenimax, Activision-Blizzard, and Bungie. Does anyone here really believe that Fallout 5 and World of Warcraft won't be Xbox/PC exclusive? Or whatever Bungie makes with Sony won't be Playstation exclusive? I don't see many people upset about that, and it's because Epic's purchases have an immediate impact on where you can buy your games.

Also Epic's lawsuits aren't frivolous and you should be happy that they're doing this. The problem with these stores is that they're a form of techno feudalism, in that once you step in, capitalism steps out. There's no competition. These stores can giveth and taketh away. Apple Google and Microsoft has certainly shown that they can remove apps you installed onto your device without your permission. This is why I'm afraid of Windows 11 because I think the reason for TPM 2.0 and secure boot is that Microsoft is planning to turn Windows 11 into the same kind of ecosystem as Android and iOS. Especially like iOS which is by far the worse offender of this. Can you imagine using your Windows 11 PC and then watch as emulators you installed are forcefully removed without your awareness? You can't install any applications outside of the app store, including even from Steam. You couldn't even install adblock plugin into your web browser, even none Edge based browsers. That's the hell that goes on iOS devices and what Microsoft wants to bring with Windows 11. The frivolous lawsuit that Epic is doing is challenging this notion and will hopefully have more of an effect outside of mobile stores.

 

[UnknownSouljer]

That's like saying "It should be pretty easy to avoid having to pay child support. Just don't stick your dick in a girl in the first place".
We've already clearly already obtained some games on Steam. Once one of your games is already on Steam, it's not necessarily easy to get the game off of it.

I don’t think you’ve paid attention to our conversation thread.
Gigabyte’s solution is that Steam should die. So, using your analogy that’s like “murdering your girl after knocking her up.”

You’re talking to someone that doesn’t have a problem with any of this stuff vs someone that claims it’s all the worst thing ever. I don’t know what to tell you here. Make better choices? Stop caring? Move on with your life?

If you hate Steam that badly then any and all decisions to not use Steam including buying your entirely library over again should be more than acceptable. As for everyone else, we’re happy living with it. To again continue with your analogy. “Get a divorce and then get a different girl.” Which would include buying stuff over for. Otherwise what are you expecting? Pie in the sky impossible solutions that will never come?

Steam isn’t dying any time soon, and if it does we can more or less expect it’s because Valve died at the same time. I wouldn’t hold my breath for anything else. In which case you’d have to get all your games over again on another platform anyway.

 

[UnknownSouljer]

There was a time when Epic did have a sale on a number of games that angered some publishers because they didn't want lower prices to be the norm. Epic was even the ones who paid for the difference out of their pocket. So it did happen but the publishers are being assholes about it.

Ah, acknowledgement that it’s about greed and not valves pricing model.

I think what Epic has done certainly caused a market response. Even Microsoft is trying to play the same game.

Microsoft like Epic just wants a bite at the pie. You think this is altruism? They see a massive game market that they could be making a percentage sale off of and they’re simply using whatever tools they can do to do so. However like your EGS example, don’t expect prices to ever drop. Publishers will just want to make more money rather than ever pass on a discount.

Epics problem, not ours. We're not here to foster their business model. We're consumers and we shouldn't care how the product gets to our hands. If they fail then they fail, and someone else will pick up where they left off.

It matters since if you actually invest in them, and EGS dies, you’ve lost your game library.

Again, this is Epics problem. They need to learn to fund new games instead of taking existing games away from other stores. You know, like how Microsoft and Sony are doing by buying up major studios like Zenimax, Activision-Blizzard, and Bungie. Does anyone here really believe that Fallout 5 and World of Warcraft won't be Xbox/PC exclusive? Or whatever Bungie makes with Sony won't be Playstation exclusive? I don't see many people upset about that, and it's because Epic's purchases have an immediate impact on where you can buy your games.

I care about it because with each progressive buyout, companies like Blizzard and iD, have become less Mac and Linux friendly. The market has shrunk by multiple OS’s due to Bethesda, Activision, etc until eventually Microsoft’s buyouts.

Also, there is precisely nothing preventing Microsoft from pressing their monopoly once they have all of these studios. Much like Origin did. Origin only failed because people refused to buy titles on it. But if Microsoft has all the titles? They stand to make 100% of the profit and cut everyone out while also forcing their methods down the consumers throat.

Which more or less we can expect to be a Windows only Xbox only future.

Also Epic's lawsuits aren't frivolous and you should be happy that they're doing this. The problem with these stores is that they're a form of techno feudalism, in that once you step in, capitalism steps out. There's no competition. These stores can giveth and taketh away. Apple Google and Microsoft has certainly shown that they can remove apps you installed onto your device without your permission. This is why I'm afraid of Windows 11 because I think the reason for TPM 2.0 and secure boot is that Microsoft is planning to turn Windows 11 into the same kind of ecosystem as Android and iOS. Especially like iOS which is by far the worse offender of this. Can you imagine using your Windows 11 PC and then watch as emulators you installed are forcefully removed without your awareness? You can't install any applications outside of the app store, including even from Steam. You couldn't even install adblock plugin into your web browser, even none Edge based browsers. That's the hell that goes on iOS devices and what Microsoft wants to bring with Windows 11. The frivolous lawsuit that Epic is doing is challenging this notion and will hopefully have more of an effect outside of mobile stores.

You’re having to take a lot of long leaps to arrive here. But my very short response is that if that is what you fear, you should move to another OS and hope and pray that Microsoft’s 20 year stranglehold on the PC gaming market would die. Because they are directly responsible for all the terrible business practices, as well as terrible API’s, inefficient code, and as you note user control that basically no one else even does. Heck, macOS is more open than Windows even without Windows 11 being on the table.

Windows 10 introduced an uninstallable, unmanageable spyware onto everyone’s computers (telemetry) as well as forced updates that just as often broke installs as much as “improved security” or “added features”. I had multiple windows installs basically nuke themselves due to “security updates”. And trying to prevent updates being impossible.

You’re fighting a losing battle. Enjoy techno-feudalism until enough people wake up and get tired of it to move to something else. More or less meaning that people will have to stop caring about their “beloved franchises” enough to abandon them for totally different OS’.

 

[GoodBoy]

View attachment 473119

Steam in small mode doing fuck all with nothing else open USING 2,152 MEGABYTES OF RAM.

Steam is a steaming pile of shit.

And no, this is not a Linux specific problem. Windows machines have the exact same problems.

You are on Linux? Might be your distro, or maybe the linux client isn't as polished as the Windows one.
I use steam on Windows, I was one of the beta testers, and it has never caused a cpu or ram issue for me.

I don't have "small mode" set, never heard of it

That's 377.6 Mb, and 0% cpu.

Game on Windows. Then you can have Steam and all of the other launchers.

Steam Die? No thanks.

 

[GiGaBiTe]

His problem is a Linux problem. Steam on Windows only uses around 500mb of RAM in small mode.

Your problem is a reading comprehension problem. You seem to have entirely glossed over the fact I said it was also a Windows problem.

And no, this is not a Linux specific problem. Windows machines have the exact same problems

Here, I brought out my Windows gaming rig just for you:


Oh, no. It's using 1.33 GB of memory in Windows vs 2.1 GB of memory in Linux, still doing absolutely nothing sitting in small mode.

DRM is completely optional on Steam. Cyberpunk 2077 on Steam is DRM-free just like the GOG version. You can launch it without Steam running. It's the decision of the developer/publisher if they want to use DRM in their games, Steamworks or otherwise.

https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/The_big_list_of_DRM-free_games_on_Steam

According to Statista, there are over 12,000 games on Steam as of earlier this year.
https://www.statista.com/statistics...nitially released just,on the platform so far.

The page you posted is at most a couple of hundred games, and many of those are not DRM free without significant effort by the user to extract files out of the steam file caches to make a separate quasi-legal steamless version. Let's throw out an estimate of the games on that list as 200, compared to 12000 games on the platform. That's just 1.6% of the games that might be DRM free with significant effort by the user.

The terrible argument you're trying to make is "because this one random game I know of on Steam is DRM free, so are all others" Which is completely false. Try running the Steam version of Half-Life without steam, it's not going to work. And the Steam version of Half-Life is distinctly different from the 1998 WON version, so they're not all comparable now.

You are on Linux? Might be your distro, or maybe the linux client isn't as polished as the Windows one.
I use steam on Windows, I was one of the beta testers, and it has never caused a cpu or ram issue for me.

I like the hilarious denial from all of the Steam die hards "oh because I don't have a problem means nobody else should either" while simultaneously offering known solutions to reduce memory usage because high resource usage in Steam is a known widespread problem. I don't need to post more examples, you can look them up by the thousands on the Steam Community message boards and forums all over the internet. The fact that users have to expend significant effort to curb bugs and high resource usage in Steam, plus people here offering solutions to reduce memory usage vindicates my original point that Steam is a bug ridden pile of trash software that eats excessive system resources.

I don't have "small mode" set, never heard of it

Thanks for letting us know you were not a beta tester, because Small Mode has been a feature since the very first releases. The larger full page mode wasn't a thing until Steam 2.0, and Big Picture mode came even later.

Now:


In 2002/2003: (bottom left window)

 

[1_rick]

Oh, no. It's using 1.33 GB of memory in Windows vs 2.1 GB of memory in Linux, still doing absolutely nothing sitting in small mode.

I get your point here, but what's the CPU utilization of those processes? The memory's probably swapped out. (Oh, and below is my system, while running Terraria. No idea why it's using so much less RAM.)

 

[Gorankar]

Actually wondering why everyone else has such high usage.