Valve: Steam Machines "Front and Center" at GDC

The reason SteamOS exists is because Valve can't compete against consoles when their SteamBoxs have to include an expensive Windows OS. Also Valve isn't a big fan of Microsoft and their Windows 8. So for you, yes you can go ahead and use Windows and have a better experience. But JoeSixPack is looking to spend no more than $500 for a game machine, and Windows would be the tipping point that would exceed the price beyond that of console prices.

It's a $50 difference for OEM's to include Windows over Linux. I think Steamboxes are the only thing platform wise that could legitimately win some console gamers however they really do need some exclusives and games that really make use of VOIP...despite those that support it, most PC gamers don't talk much. Exclusives really do drive gamers towards specific platforms but price is a big factor as well and this is where a console like the PS4 is always going to win because it's at least $100 cheaper and it's graphics are very comparable...most gamers don't care about TXAA or other small details that break the difference of high end PC's vs consoles and despite the debates, they don't seem to mind 30fps in all reality, they just like to complain publicly.
 
It's a $50 difference for OEM's to include Windows over Linux. I think Steamboxes are the only thing platform wise that could legitimately win some console gamers however they really do need some exclusives and games that really make use of VOIP...despite those that support it, most PC gamers don't talk much. Exclusives really do drive gamers towards specific platforms but price is a big factor as well and this is where a console like the PS4 is always going to win because it's at least $100 cheaper and it's graphics are very comparable...most gamers don't care about TXAA or other small details that break the difference of high end PC's vs consoles and despite the debates, they don't seem to mind 30fps in all reality, they just like to complain publicly.

I look at the cost of the small tablets and laptops with free windows on them that are recently introduced like HP's stream tablets and laptops and other maker's small tablets, the cost of Windows on a system is more than $50. Maybe a license is $50 but then their are other costs like training, tech support, or whatever rolled in as an additional cost.
 
We all hashed this out the first time this was announced.

It was dead then, it is dead now, and it is dead in the future.

Pretty much only diehard Windows haters are going to choose Linux as a gaming OS, when there are 100 times more games on Windows.

This is little more than an angry desperation move on Gabes part, overreacting to the potential of the Windows store cutting into his Steam Cash cow.

This pretty much how I see it. And if the rumors about W10 & Xbox crossbuy and crossplay on Win Store,are true, then that would be a fucking huge shift in digital distribution tipping in MS favor over time.
 
I look at the cost of the small tablets and laptops with free windows on them that are recently introduced like HP's stream tablets and laptops and other maker's small tablets, the cost of Windows on a system is more than $50. Maybe a license is $50 but then their are other costs like training, tech support, or whatever rolled in as an additional cost.

It's a floating per volume price segment and depends on the device. For regular desktop's, it's typically around $50 without Office but they do occasionally drop it depending on sales. For devices packing an ARM based processors, OEMs will be required to pay between $50 and $65 USD for using both Windows RT and Office 13 on each device.

Songhurst went on to reveal a number that Microsoft has made a point not to disclose to the general public: how much it charges OEMs for Windows. "If you think of the $1,000 PC, which has kind of been the benchmark for the last decade or so, then we've always charged about $50 for the copy of Windows for that PC," Songhurst revealed.
 
It's a floating per volume price segment and depends on the device. For regular desktop's, it's typically around $50 without Office but they do occasionally drop it depending on sales. For devices packing an ARM based processors, OEMs will be required to pay between $50 and $65 USD for using both Windows RT and Office 13 on each device.

The particular pricepoint of a Windows OEM license isn't the main issue here. Valve's goal in branching out to SteamOS and Linux in general was really more about their distro platform not being solely dependent on the underlying platform (Windows) of another corporation (Microsoft) whose marketing department may decide at any time they want to take the platform 'in a different direction'. Such was the case when Windows 8 launched and Microsoft telegraphed their intentions to begin moving Windows toward a closed and locked down "store" and ecosystem ala Xbox.

The fact that in the preceding years Metro was universally panned and Windows 8 was a failure doesn't erase Microsoft's initial intention - only delayed it. But it opened Valve's eyes to the vulnerability that a dependency on another platform owner with its own interests presented for the longterm viability of their company.

So Valve wants better top to bottom control of the stack, plain and simple. Its not just about trying to "cut $50" from the BoM.
 
So Valve wants better top to bottom control of the stack, plain and simple. Its not just about trying to "cut $50" from the BoM.

The "cut $50" just seems to be the main rallying cry of those who think this has more than a snowballs chance of succeeding, and that will give it the edge it needs.

But I don't think saving 50$ on a gaming PC will make the slightest difference.

SteamOS is the next OUYA.
 
Irrational fear on Valve's part as Windows 10 proves but Windows has always been closed OS so no clue what you mean there but is not remotely similar to Xbox. Xbox one uses 3 OS's btw. What does changing a UI or adding an App store for mobile apps have anything to do with the ability for developers to create and make money off of software? Valve even made Steam support for Metro so you can pin your games and make use of the live tiles. There is, nor ever was any indication that MS would make Windows in such a way as to cause a threat to the Steam client or it's ability to play games.

Complete FUD mixed with irrational fear.
 
Not the Xbox One or PS4. Google it. They don't profit however but no loss.

$40 isn't minor when the whole machine has to reach a price point. Though more expensive Steam Machines are likely to dual boot Windows with SteamOS.

That's definitely one of the reasons, but Windows is also a constant changing environment. A Windows update with driver update and virus's can turn a gaming machine into a brick. Linux is far more stable of a platform compared to Windows. Another reason Valve went with SteamOS is that they have total control over those things. They won't update the driver unless they feel the driver won't cause issues, including OS updates. Where with WIndows if you update the OS it may not boot next time. If you don't update the OS it may get infected and things really get out of control.

Why spend money for an OS that isn't very friendly towards Steam? They probably have to put just as much effort into Windows without Microsoft being very cooperative. And if Xbox One does fail, Microsoft could turn around and bring Xbox gaming to Windows. For whatever reason Microsoft hasn't, and thank god. Let them think Xbox One has a chance at succeeding.

Can you imagine the technical support nightmare that comes with Windows. With 14 year old boys using their SteamBox to surf to porn that suddenly infects their machine with pop ups and malware. Be fun having to play a game and suddenly a pop up message appears reminding you that your PC is running slow and should download more speed or ram. Better yet Windows update downloads a bunch of stuff and reminds you to reboot the machine constantly. God help you, anti-virus software that decided to scan just as you start the game which slows everything down.

For you and me, we don't worry about those things. But 14 year old Billy who thinks he's smart and found out the SteamBox can also be used as a PornBox, has been surfing away and infecting his machine. It wouldn't take long before Steam just didn't work at all. You wouldn't have those problem with SteamOS.

Just because the BOM is lower than the sale price doesn't mean its not a loss leader. The reality is neither Sony nor MS can make money just selling consoles they have to sell their forced subscriptions and tons of over priced games too. That is a loss leader. Contrast that with dell or HP whom cannot and will not sell hardware with a steam or anyone else store on it at break even or even close to it. The fact of the matter is the penguins in your glasses are blocking your view of reality. No one except valve can afford to sell steam machines as cheap as the major console makers with or without windows. And lets not forget in this console war the Sony and MS always have the option of waiting for valve to release steam machines and then gutting the prices on their latest gen even more and screwing them over.

This is why I clearly point out that valve cannot and should not be trying to compete directly with consoles. Raising the price of a steam machine less than a single console game price to gain a library of 6000 games is a no brainer. Heck most of the console makers give a free game with many console bundles why cant valve consider windows the free item. Make deals with players like Riot/blizzard and get the mega hit games on steam to push more interest. Don't confuse the shit out of your less than savvy customers leaving them stranded with an anemic library of old has been games on Linux. After you make a name for yourself sure go ahead and try a Linux push. Doesn't bother me one bit. Unlike you I have PC gaming as a wholes best interest at heart all you have is your Linux bias.
 
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Steam Machines are ultimately not just a good thing, but the potential to be a great one in terms of furthering adoption of tech I generally approve of. Lets not forget that a Steam Machine is simply a HTPC running a Debian Linux derivative with pre-installed gaming-friendly packages , Steam for Linux + Big Picture as default UI, capable of streaming media and even Windows games from an existing PC on the network, and ready for use with either an existing or new controller.

For years, we in the enthusiast community have been looking for a better HTPC experience. We've been building them, but getting "joe user" onboard has been difficult because aside from self-builders, they're not exposed to the public. Steam Machines expand said exposure. On the software side, many people say they want more "console like" HTPC interactions. Well, this is the way to go. Big Picture mode on Steam fulfills that need, plus encourages developers to make "living room co-op" style games and have them debut on Steam.

For Linux aficionados like myself, Steam Machines are all powered by SteamOS, which is a Debian distro with Steam For Linux installed natively. We've already seen how the presence of Steam For Linux and the advent of Steam Machines has encouraged huge strides forward in Linux driver improvement - Valve themselves have put money into it, and this has lit a fire under Nvidia's ass (which was comfortably resting on its laurels) and moved AMD even further ahead (AMD being the company of the two that has been more interested in Linux improvements. For instance, their next gen cards will likely run entirely on an open source Catalyst full 3d driver!). This has also tapped into other needed driver improvements like within audio subsystems and banking on existing advances for WiFi/Bluetooth chipsets. This is to say nothing for the massive increase in Linux native clients for gaming, which comes down to pretty much Valve, Humble, some brave indie devs, and a handful of AAA's like CDProkjekt leading the charge. Steam for Linux / SteamOS being able to play even Windows titles so long as there is a Windows PC on the same network is a great boon as well - its a much simpler way to go about it than WINE, provided everything lines up correctly. All great improvements for Linux adoption and entertainment. Personally, I hope to see SteamOS also merge in easy-to-use (via a controller) video/audio entertainment media as well. If you not only provide games, but say... XBMC or some such, giving the potential to play local and streaming video, as well as local/streaming audio... that's going to be a great feature. I really wish that Valve could put some cash/emphesis into getting Netflix on Linux natively for instance - providing a Steam Machine as an all in one HTPC from the start will be even better. Of course, interested users can still add whatever programs they wish since SteamOS is a full Linux distro, but having things set from the beginning and with complimentary UIs will really help.

Finally, we come to the controller. I don't know what form the final Steam controller will be; lets hope it is worth all the time invested certainly. I'm relatively sure that it will be made in such a way to allow for say, XInput mapping by default - lets hope they don't cheap out anywhere in hardware or otherwise and that it is fully open in all specs necessary. Of course, for users who already have controllers they want to use Linux does a great job supporting them. Xbox360 / XboxONE controllers work pretty much flawlessly, PS3/PS4 Dual Shocks and Nintendo Wii/WiiU controllers have great FOSS drivers for Bluetooth and/or USB use and much of the time emulation for XInput for games that focus upon it. Its rather a pity that Sony and Nintendo don't go out of their way to make an easy driver/SDK for PC use though, but the community has taken up the slack. Having another great controller made for the PC will only be a boon.

Success of Steam Machines should be sought by the entire community, even if you'd never just buy one yourself. Valve's success in this arena will have great benefits, widely reaching many of the things we care about.
 
Success of Steam Machines should be sought by the entire community, even if you'd never just buy one yourself. Valve's success in this arena will have great benefits, widely reaching many of the things we care about.

Many people do not want to hear it. That's why they aren't just sowing their seeds of doubt (which is fair), but they are presenting these doubts with almost unbounded glee.

These are people that are completely satisfied with the mediocrity of the status quo, and are terrified of the apple cart being overturned. And in much of it is a latent Windows fanboyism that sees in Steam Machines a sort of attack by Valve on Microsoft. You're not dealing with logic here, but a sort of betrayal that a teenager feels when a girl goes with somebody else.
 
And in much of it is a latent Windows fanboyism that sees in Steam Machines a sort of attack by Valve on Microsoft.

Some of us are just pointing out an obvious flop. If I were a Windows Fanboy I wouildn't have even more stridently calling Windows RT a total flop before it shipped as well.

IMO, it is more often fanboyism that sees success where there is no real chance of it actually happening.

Just as with RT, there are just to many obvious hurdles for this to be success. Those blinded by Linux passion, or Windows hate (etc) will just handwave away the serious impediments as if the don't exist.
 
Many people do not want to hear it. That's why they aren't just sowing their seeds of doubt (which is fair), but they are presenting these doubts with almost unbounded glee.

These are people that are completely satisfied with the mediocrity of the status quo, and are terrified of the apple cart being overturned. And in much of it is a latent Windows fanboyism that sees in Steam Machines a sort of attack by Valve on Microsoft. You're not dealing with logic here, but a sort of betrayal that a teenager feels when a girl goes with somebody else.

Bingo. If all someone ever wants to do is game on Windows, and the idea of an open and moddable console in the living room for couch gaming is something that doesn't appeal to them, they should at least be happy that any inroads SteamOS makes and any Windows gaming marketshare it may steal might actually compel Microsoft to respond by bolstering support for their own PC gaming platform, one that they've pretty much abandoned for the past decade because Xbox-Xbox-Xbox. And no, an incremental update to DirectX every 2-4 years to try to compel Windows upgrades doesn't count for much. Keeping their own game titles off Windows speaks much louder than any minor improvements to Direct3D.
 
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