Valve Slammed over “Horrendous” Steam School-Shooting Game

Status
Not open for further replies.
SickBeast said:
The law is clearly not effective enough or else these things would not keep on happening again and again.
Click to expand...
The law is effective, period. If you're cataloged in NICS as a mental defective, it works 100% of the time. What you're saying is that people are not being cataloged as a mental defective as the sheriff failed to do with Cruz. That has nothing to do with the law. That has to do with people exercising discretion to decide if they want to get someone declared a mental defective.
 
SickBeast said:
It is clearly not sufficient or else we would not see so many of these horrible things happening with guns the shooters purchased themselves legally in stores.
Click to expand...
Except that is not what we are seeing. These crimes are typically not being committed with firearms legally acquired by the criminals. You have to be 18 to legally acquire a long gun and 21 to legally acquire a pistol in most states. You also have to fill out a 4473, (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Form_4473), and have an NCIS check, to purchase a firearm from a store.
Jim Kim said:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...g-school-shootings-its-guns-not-mental-health
The profile of your average shooter angry, aggressive, marginalized, isolated, and having access to firearms.
The Secret Service concluded, this profile characterizes so many millions of adolescents and young adults, that we can never predict who is going to take murderous action. Mental health is easy to see as the target of root cause and preventative efforts. But it misses the boat.

What we need is less firearms.
Click to expand...

The root cause is not firearms, nutters are. What we need, is fewer nutters. Your source has a vested interest in mental health pros not taking the blame for nutters.
Inanimate objects do not commit crimes. People do. Yes a knife, or a club, or a gun makes it easier. But it is still people.

Do any of you guys actually know what you are going on about? Are you pulling it straight from the MSM, that we already know, has no clue what they are going on about?

Am I just feeding trolls here?
 
Kaitian said:
Well congratulations for Japan, I don't care. They have more suicides per capita than the United States does even greater than the amount of suicides by firearms. Again, you keep playing the heartstring game which it's not going to work. Do I care about the deaths? Yes.

Am I willing to accept a constitutional change to the US Constitution regarding the right to bear arms?
NO
Click to expand...
So you think mentally deranged people should be allowed to purchase and own guns?
 
SickBeast said:
The law is clearly not effective enough or else these things would not keep on happening again and again.
Click to expand...
Effective? Do you live in a dream world? You really think any system is 100% effective?
School shootings are so low on the amount of people killed list it's not even funny.
 
tangoseal said:
You don't understand anything about our military. Our military is 100% volunteer and they/we take an oath to support and defend our constitution and bill of rights from all enemies foreign and domestic. You as typical with all non Americans do not understand that we are absolutwly unique in the world. I have absolutely no fear of my brothers in the military and I know if we face a tyranny of our very own government I would be right there alongside them fighting to defend our families and countrymens liberty. Again something a non American has no concept of and I forgive you all for it as you just don't understand.
Click to expand...

lol not sure where you ever got the impression that I wasn't American. I'm definitely American. My whole post was making a point that ordinary citizens don't really stand a chance against the US military. The whole "well regulated militia" argument of the 2nd Amendment is bs, imo. Maybe a hundred years ago? But today, the disparity of hardware available to the common man vs available to the government is so huge that it seems almost pointless to make the case that the common man could defend the country against tyranny.

I think people should be able to own guns. I own several. I just think that we need to make some changes so that these school shootings stop. It used to be that we look at our military as those who die for our freedoms. Now it feels like it's our kids. Kinda fucked
 
SickBeast said:
So you think mentally deranged people should be allowed to purchase and own guns?
Click to expand...
Where did I say that I think they should be allowed to purchase and own guns? I already told you what the law is. You can do the math here.

No wait, you've already proven that you can't understand anything on what the law is. No, the mental defective should not be able to own firearms and should have them confiscated provided that they are legally declared a mental defective.
 
Kaitian said:
The law is effective, period. If you're cataloged in NICS as a mental defective, it works 100% of the time. What you're saying is that people are not being cataloged as a mental defective as the sheriff failed to do with Cruz. That has nothing to do with the law. That has to do with people exercising discretion to decide if they want to get someone declared a mental defective.
Click to expand...
You are full of it.
 
Kaitian said:
Where did I say that I think they should be allowed to purchase and own guns? I already told you what the law is. You can do the math here.
Click to expand...
You are advocating for the status quo when deranged people are killing hundreds of innocent Americans every year. Advocating that position is on your conscience, not mine. The same goes for your lack of honesty.
 
SickBeast said:
You are full of it.
Click to expand...
Okay, where did the NICS law fail then in regards to Cruz?

Was he declared a mental defective? No.
Did NICS have him listed as a mental defective? No.
Why? Because he wasn't declared a mental defective.
Ergo the law worked.

Did the Broward County Sheriff have the ability to get him declared a mental defective? Yes. And did they have enough information to get him declared one? Yes. They simply chose not to get him declared in the legal system to get him declared a mental defective. That has nothing to do with NICS. If he had been declared a mental defective, the court system would have automatically reported him to NICS.
 
SickBeast said:
You are advocating for the status quo when deranged people are killing hundreds of innocent Americans every year. Advocating that position is on your conscience, not mine. The same goes for your lack of honesty.
Click to expand...
Prove I have a "lack of honesty". I told you the law. You simply do not understand that law. We get that.
 
Hagrid said:
Did you not read, there is a law on it.
Click to expand...
According to the article from February of this year:

"In most states, the authorities often can do nothing to prevent even an obviously troubled person from possessing firearms."

So if there is a law now, it sucks basically, and this problem needs to be addressed properly.
 
SickBeast said:
According to the article from February of this year:

"In most states, the authorities often can do nothing to prevent even an obviously troubled person from possessing firearms."

So if there is a law now, it sucks basically, and this problem needs to be addressed properly.
Click to expand...
Obviously troubled how? That is the part where it might be a bit hard.
 
SickBeast said:
People are free to read the last few pages of this thread. Your comments speak for themselves.
Click to expand...
Yes, I told you the law and you are ignorant to what the law is. You are playing the heartstring game by attacking my character by trying to insinuate I don't care for the deaths. Prove that I don't care about the deaths.

When was Cruz declared a mental defective?
 
Kaitian said:
Yes, I told you the law and you are ignorant to what the law is. You are playing the heartstring game by attacking my character by trying to insinuate I don't care for the deaths. Prove that I don't care about the deaths.

When was Cruz declared a mental defective?
Click to expand...
All the activity on him, he should of been flagged. The LEO, FBI, etc kind of failed on this. They should of been allowed to flag him.
 
Hagrid said:
All the activity on him, he should of been flagged. The LEO, FBI, etc kind of failed on this. They should of been allowed to flag him.
Click to expand...
I get that. But that has nothing to do with the NICS law. What you're talking about is the failure on the part of law enforcement and anyone who was directly involved failing to take the necessary steps to get him declared mentally defective. NICS has nothing to do with it. NICS is just there for law enforcement as a tool to enter into their system that a person is a mentally defective and to prevent them from purchasing a firearm from a FFL dealer. The NICS law does not specify anything how does one get legally declared a mental defective. What SB seems to want is someone to be declared a mental defective outside of the legal system by fiat.
 
Kaitian said:
You really do not know how NICS works, do you? They can lie on the form all they want, who cares. You can mark everything to favor you and NICS will still ding you. If you are cataloged as "mental defective" in NICS, they will prevent the transaction. The questions is just a first layer of prevention. You cannot fill out the Form 4473 and get a gun. It doesn't work like that.
Click to expand...

Does he not know about the phone call after you fill out the form? Does he also not know that you can get busted to the slammer for knowingly lying on that form?
 
Kaitian said:
I get that. But that has nothing to do with the NICS law. What you're talking about is the failure on the part of law enforcement and anyone who was directly involved failing to take the necessary steps to get him declared mentally defective. NICS has nothing to do with it. NICS is just there for law enforcement as a tool to enter into their system that a person is a mentally defective and to prevent them from purchasing a firearm from a FFL dealer. The NICS law does not specify anything how does one get legally declared a mental defective. What SB seems to want is someone to be declared a mental defective outside of the legal system by fiat.
Click to expand...
Nope. I am saying if you want to buy a gun, then you should have to go to the doctor first and have the doctor declare you mentally competent before you are allowed to make the purchase.
 
SickBeast said:
Nope. I am saying if you want to buy a gun, then you should have to go to the doctor first and have the doctor declare you mentally competent before you are allowed to make the purchase.
Click to expand...
That's unconstitutional. And that has nothing to do with NICS. If you know someone that is mentally defective, get them legally declared.
 
SickBeast said:
Nope. I am saying if you want to buy a gun, then you should have to go to the doctor first and have the doctor declare you mentally competent before you are allowed to make the purchase.
Click to expand...
Nobody can fool the shrink right?
 
Kaitian said:
I know, it's amazing you know nothing about the US Constitution.
Click to expand...
I know about it. I am saying that the second amendment is flawed in its current form. If my own country's constitution was flawed also I would advocate to change it.
 
SickBeast said:
I know about it. I am saying that the second amendment is flawed in its current form. If my own country's constitution was flawed also I would advocate to change it.
Click to expand...
No, it's not flawed in its current form. It's your opinion that it should be done away with.
 
SickBeast Why are you advocating a 'guilty (mentally defective) until proven innocent (sane)' approach here?

It's always 'innocent until proven guilty', unless you are a member of the court of popular opinion.
 
Kaitian said:
No, it's not flawed it its current form. It's your opinion that it should be done away with.
Click to expand...
Not done away with. Altered. And yes it's flawed if it does not allow people to be declared mentally competent prior to purchasing a gun. What else should they be allowed to buy? A tank? An aircraft carrier? Nuclear weapons?
 
SickBeast said:
It wouldn't be fool-proof but it would be better than what exists now.
Click to expand...
The cost would be way to high as well. And before you say it could save lives, the same could be for owning a car which kills 999999999999999x more than school shootings.
 
SickBeast said:
Not done away with. Altered. And yes it's flawed if it does not allow people to be declared mentally competent prior to purchasing a gun. What else should they be allowed to buy? A tank? An aircraft carrier? Nuclear weapons?
Click to expand...
That means done away with. Our legal system already gets people legally declared a mental defective. It works.
 
atp1916 said:
SickBeast Why are you advocating a 'guilty (mentally defective) until proven innocent (sane)' approach here?

It's always 'innocent until proven guilty', unless you are a member of the court of popular opinion.
Click to expand...
Because it works in Japan. They have almost zero gun deaths per year.
 
Hagrid said:
The cost would be way to high as well. And before you say it could save lives, the same could be for owning a car which kills 999999999999999x more than school shootings.
Click to expand...
Oh right, you guys have a broken health care system there also. I almost forgot. Perhaps adopt universal coverage. We pay half as much per capita for health care here in Canada and everyone has coverage. We don't have people dying of curable diseases simply because they are too poor.
 
So.... SickBeast you assume something that works in another country, another culture, another medical system ... would work over here in this country, this culture, and this expensive-@$$ medical system.

We are x3 the population of Japan.
 
SickBeast said:
Oh right, you guys have a broken health care system there also. I almost forgot. Perhaps adopt universal coverage. We pay half as much per capita for health care here in Canada and everyone has coverage. We don't have people dying of curable diseases simply because they are too poor.
Click to expand...
Yeah, we do need a better health care system, but I like having freedoms. They come with a cost, but nice to have. ;)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top