Valve Not Even Bothering With The PS3 Any More

Technoob

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Nobody was bitching about Xbox user base when it only had 23 million sold. Why at 23 million sold does all of a sudden the PS3 have a small user base not worth developing for?

By that logic, why aren't they making Wii games. Or DS games?

Valve throws out xbox games because it's easy and they don't need extra staff duplicating efforts. They can develop their pc games like they always have, and toss an easy port to the 360 architecture. If the next nintendo or sony device has the same simplicity of porting, I have no doubt we'll see valve games on those platforms. If MS decides to go more proprietary, I have no doubt that valve won't make xbox games.

People get so caught up in fud about this because they're personally offended that valve won't develop for their favorite platform, it's all about easy. They've never said the ps3 (or wii...ps3 fans always ignore this) are pieces of shit.
 

Nembot

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Sadly HL2 runs beautifully on this computer but TF2 performance is abysmal because of the 1.83 c2d. I've never figured out why the same engine runs so much different between the two games (or why TF2's multicore support is so useless.)

Valve's graphics engines are rather cpu bound as far as I know, are you overclocking that lil'6300?
 

Ozymandias

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Nobody was bitching about Xbox user base when it only had 23 million sold. Why at 23 million sold does all of a sudden the PS3 have a small user base not worth developing for?

The comparisons aren't equal at all. MS tossed tons of money at the original Xbox and at developers to make it into the big leagues. They got some of the most anticipated games behind the Xbox by aggressively wooing developers and making it easy to code for, advertising the hell out of it, and then they debuted it at a price in line with their competitors'. The Xbox division didn't even turn a profit until last year, despite your 24 million Xbox 1's.

Sony has made the PS3 hard to code for, so for 23 million potential consumers, it's simply not worth Valve's time to create an excellent port in-house. Even gaming revenues have taken a hit recently, so it's time for belt-tightening. Valve doesn't code for the Wii (even though it has a huge user base) because it's not worth their time to redo everything so it runs on the Gamecubex2.
 

Gorankar

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Valve's graphics engines are rather cpu bound as far as I know, are you overclocking that lil'6300?

TF2 is extremely CPU bound even when compared to other Source titles. Especially in 32 person servers when all hell is breaking loose and people are chatting up a storm over voice.

Thinking out loud, I have always been curious about the CPU usage of Source's net code. Issues relating to games being CPU bound that are not as apparent in the HL2 series games or Bloodlines seem readily apparent in TF2, CS:S and to a lesser extent L4D and HL2 DM as well as many of the multi player mods. Ehh, just always wondered if it was that or the physics engine or both that was sucking up the CPU cycles.


Back on topic: Why is anyone bothering to be annoyed at Gabe's statement? All he said was, "Uh, no. Not in any real way". He was asked a question and answered it. It's not like he called a press conference and said, "ZOMG!!!! teh P$3 sux0rs, only a duma$$ n00b would bother coding for dat trash".
 

Serpico

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Back on topic: Why is anyone bothering to be annoyed at Gabe's statement? All he said was, "Uh, no. Not in any real way". He was asked a question and answered it. It's not like he called a press conference and said, "ZOMG!!!! teh P$3 sux0rs, only a duma$$ n00b would bother coding for dat trash".

He was actually very clear if anyone bothered to actually watch the interview. They did PC and 360 development internally while they farmed out The Orange Box PS3 port to an outside EA developer. They had little control over it and the port was a disaster. Valve doesn't want their name associated with disasters but they also don't want to expand their internal staff to take care of PS3 ports, so they decided on no more PS3 ports. Simple.

I don't think anyone will argue that the PS3 is different to develop for, its why PC and 360 ports don't always work out for the best (at best they are on par with the others, but they can also fall short), but at the same time why PS3 exclusives can look so amazing (in the best cases it exceeds anything I've seen on the 360). If you're not coding strictly for it then it seems that developers are in for a world of hurt.

That doesn't help since this is now a cross-platform world. Look at id, trying to concurrently bring their games to the PC, Mac, 360, and PS3.
 

michael.pa2

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I'm sure anyone who shelled out the bucks for a PS3 has a stake in it's survival,but let's face it - it's a distant third in the console race,it's overpriced in a bad economy,and it's harder to program games for it.Those are three big strikes that game developers are going to take notice of.Obviously Valve has,and decided the costs of programing for it exceed the reward.
 

CousinVin

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ok... who plays ps3 anyway? :rolleyes:


sarcasm aside, valves console games for the most part havent been anything to rave about. Their PC games are really what shine.
 

YeuEmMaiMai

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I've lost almost all respect for Valve. Not only after the whole L4D crap but now they're being lazy programmers just because PS3 isn't like PC, boohoo. Mr. Gabe is also constantly running his fat mouth. They also horrible with delays and setbacks and can't keep their schedule strait.

lol you have two similar systems PC and XB360 and you have one that is a total PITA to program for. A company needs to make money and with PS3 sales in the shitter, why in the world would valve bother to develop for them?

Wii 50million
X360 30million
PS3 22million
 

Kowan

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You forgot the PC numbers. Since the XBox360 is the easiest to port over, they go were the bank for the buck is.
 
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lol you have two similar systems PC and XB360 and you have one that is a total PITA to program for. A company needs to make money and with PS3 sales in the shitter, why in the world would valve bother to develop for them?

Wii 50million
X360 30million
PS3 22million

By your numbers.. they should be racing to get something out on the Wii..
 

ICOM

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...Back on topic: Why is anyone bothering to be annoyed at Gabe's statement? All he said was, "Uh, no. Not in any real way". He was asked a question and answered it. It's not like he called a press conference and said, "ZOMG!!!! teh P$3 sux0rs, only a duma$$ n00b would bother coding for dat trash".

I don't think anyone is annoyed. Relieved is more like it.

I know Gabe didn't say "ZOMG!!!! teh P$3 sux0rs, only a duma$$ n00b would bother coding for dat trash"...but I'm guessing that's what he was thinking. I'm pleased his not wasting his time with that console. The vast majority of games for that POS are asinine.
 

piscian18

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So PS3 is the new Sega Saturn? Good fuck Sony, thanks for ruining two consoles for me with your monopolizing bullshit.

I got the impression from the video that on top of the developmental issues Sony kinda snubbed Valve, which wouldn't surprise me. Valve has don't wonders for the PC and look at the weekend deal for Christs sake! Sony would never do something like that.
 

gdonovan

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L4D2 coming out so soon is not a big deal to me, but on the delays, I am with you. Valve time is so well known it even has a wiki page.

Don't care how long it takes as long as it is done right.

How long did we have to wait for Half Life? Worth every damn minute.
 

djoye

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So PS3 is the new Sega Saturn? Good fuck Sony, thanks for ruining two consoles for me with your monopolizing bullshit.

I got the impression from the video that on top of the developmental issues Sony kinda snubbed Valve, which wouldn't surprise me. Valve has don't wonders for the PC and look at the weekend deal for Christs sake! Sony would never do something like that.
Ruined two consoles? Are you saying that they ruined the Saturn because the PS2 did well but then they ruined the PS3 because they effed it up with it being too expensive and it's not a leader anymore? That's the way I see it anyway.

Valve has definitely helped the PC, though. I like buying stuff from Steam (that I typically wouldn't buy) especially if I think I'm getting a deal.
 

piscian18

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Ruined two consoles? Are you saying that they ruined the Saturn because the PS2 did well but then they ruined the PS3 because they effed it up with it being too expensive and it's not a leader anymore? That's the way I see it anyway.

Valve has definitely helped the PC, though. I like buying stuff from Steam (that I typically wouldn't buy) especially if I think I'm getting a deal.


It's more than that Sony monopolized developers. Still does to a certain point. Anyway, the Saturn was difficult to develop for in some respects same as the PS3 thats why I make analogy. Though sega was never high and mighty enough to just assume that everyone would flock to their system because it was their system.
 

MrLonghair

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Sony did shady deals behind the scenes in the PS1 Saturn era which locked the Saturn out of many ports and localizations. Having two CPUs and baffling all developer teams who hadn't worked with it before (ie the STV-Titan arcade hardware original) really did not help though. It's sort of like the Wii, Nintendo know the hardware in and out and use it.

If Valve had enough time, money and people we'd see PS3 and if they felt it had enough power, Wii ports. I want Motion+ crowbar action.
 

Vorazan

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I don't love Valve. They're a bunch of lazy fucks. I was following Half-Life 2 storyline religiously until they messed shit up with their 3 hour "episodes" every 3 years. I want Half-Life 3, a proper game on a new engine.

Could care less about TF2.
 

R0N1

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They've been pretty much against the PS3 the whole time. Thinking it's not worth developing games for it because additional costs via training and learning and so on.. It's just easier porting over for the x360.

I actually think Valve made the rights choice, I'm all for it. Hopefully also we pc gamers get something real soon.
 

chrnochime

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A friend in the industry say's its still a coding nightmare. Seriously hope Sony withers away because of the PoS 3. Now only if Xbox and Nintendo can join forces somehow...

Just what a MS fanboy would say. Yes Sony withering away is great for the MS fanboys. And there's no way in hell Nintendo would stoop to MS level. Ingenuity on one hand and can't innovate just keep copying others doesn't mix, thankfully.
 

htpc_user

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I just think the developers are getting lazy. I don't buy the "too hard to code for" BS. I by no means can do what they do...but that is what they do. If it was that bad there'd be no to few games for the PS3. How many years has it been out and they still claim to not know what they're doing? I've played both the 360 and PS3 and although I haven't played every game on both systems, the ones I have played there is very little difference. It's just a matter of which controller you prefer.
 
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I've played both the 360 and PS3 and although I haven't played every game on both systems, the ones I have played there is very little difference. It's just a matter of which controller you prefer.

Facepalm.png

Just because they play alike doesn't mean that they are both equally easy to code for. To make the game play how you see it is completely different for each console.
 

Elios

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porting games to and from PC <-> 360 is farly trivial same SDK mostly just compile time changes
compared to porting to PS3 which calls for a full code re-write

this is why PS3 support is being dropped
 

Elios

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I just think the developers are getting lazy. I don't buy the "too hard to code for" BS. I by no means can do what they do...but that is what they do. If it was that bad there'd be no to few games for the PS3. How many years has it been out and they still claim to not know what they're doing? I've played both the 360 and PS3 and although I haven't played every game on both systems, the ones I have played there is very little difference. It's just a matter of which controller you prefer.

go get a PS3 dev kit and 360 dev kit
and tell me which you would ranter code for
for place like Valve that has background in PC games the 306 dev kit uses the same DX SDK and tools

were for PS3 its totally different and has its own way of doing things
lots of stuff has to be hacked and hand coded were for PC and 360 its all the same
 

Elios

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It's more than that Sony monopolized developers. Still does to a certain point. Anyway, the Saturn was difficult to develop for in some respects same as the PS3 thats why I make analogy. Though sega was never high and mighty enough to just assume that everyone would flock to their system because it was their system.

i used to be a sega fan boy looooge ago but Saturn was a dog
3d was a hack it use squares not triangles
it was meant to be a uber 2D game system and it did it so well they faked 3D with 2d sprites

PS1 was far far better system hardware wise N64 was techicly better but the lack of an optical drive killed it
PS2 was good too gamecube came late with no good games and Xbox was a joke at the time

PS3 really came a gen to soon imo
and should of waited for FFXIII for a launch game the price would been much lower but dont this will stop sony from PS4 or what ever
but if that fails it might be the end of SOE
 

htpc_user

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Facepalm.png

Just because they play alike doesn't mean that they are both equally easy to code for. To make the game play how you see it is completely different for each console.

My original comment about how a game plays was toward all the people who claim games are better on the 360, not how easy or hard they are to code for.
 

Yaka

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well i wouldn't be that hard to find peeps to code for the ps3, valve would easy nock up 2 maybe 3 million in sales on ps3 alone.



still what shocks me more than anything was valve arnt bother how shit a job EA did on the orange box port.
 

Technoob

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still what shocks me more than anything was valve arnt bother how shit a job EA did on the orange box port.

Says who? What are they supposed to do about it? Besides not letting it happen again with one of their big games, like L4D...which they haven't.
 

LOCO LAPTOP

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Maybe other game developers will catch on :D

I hope so. Sony brought it upon themselves for making coding so hard that a company like Valve says fuck it.

PS: I own a PS3 and almost never use it. PC Gaming for life.
 

zero2dash

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Does Valve need the Ps3, or does the Ps3 need Valve? No and no.
/thread
 

TheCAD

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Valve's games are designed and meant to be experienced on the PC.

/thread

I had an AIM conversation with a friend that went like this:

Me:Yeh TF2 is great, we should play some time.
Him: Sure lmk when you are on xbox live and we will play.
Me:lol gtfo...its a PC game.

I don't care what console they do or do not port their games too.
I'm gonna play em on PC anyway.
 

polonyc2

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forget the PS3, I'm more concerned with EP3...when the heck are they going to release this?...they keep working on sequels to games that came out later then Episode 2 such as Left 4 Dead and Portal...what about the game that built the Valve franchise?...release HL2: Episode 3 already
 

kllrnohj

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I just think the developers are getting lazy. I don't buy the "too hard to code for" BS. I by no means can do what they do...but that is what they do. If it was that bad there'd be no to few games for the PS3. How many years has it been out and they still claim to not know what they're doing? I've played both the 360 and PS3 and although I haven't played every game on both systems, the ones I have played there is very little difference. It's just a matter of which controller you prefer.

There is a *HUGE* difference between knowing what you are doing and being easy to code for. Systems that are hard to code for never get easier to code for, no matter how good you are. They are *always* hard to code for (unless Sony releases a new SDK or something like that, but that would be more abstraction to hide that hard parts at the expense of speed). Microsoft has some of the best coding and debugging tools around. The only 360 dev work I have done was with XNA, but Microsoft also has been putting out some very good and logical SDKs and libraries over the past ~5 years. Sony is a hardware developer first and foremost, they don't know software nearly as well as Microsoft. Microsoft knows what developers want, Microsoft HAS what developers want. Microsoft made their hardware for their easy to code for software (aka, mimic'd the successful PC hardware layout). Sony made their hardware to cram as many new acronyms and tech in it as possible with the largest numbers possible - even if it has no place being there.

Also, it isn't a matter of developers being unable to or lazy or any of that bullshit, it is a matter of simply not being worth the COST. It all comes down to COST. Harder to code for == buggier code == longer debug times == more dev money spent. Games are *VERY* expensive to create.
 

michael.pa2

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Does Valve need the Ps3, or does the Ps3 need Valve? No and no.
/thread

Not quite.Valve was doing just fine long before there was a PS.But given their present position in the console race,Sony needs all the help they can get.
 

nissanztt90

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Valve is mainly PC. They are too shorthanded to code for the PS3, which isnt entirely unbelievable. The PS3 is not hard to code for when games like Uncharted: Drakes Fortune look wonderful and run well from little known name developers, available very soon after the console was released, and about to release a sequel. Or when the Ratchet and Clank series developers can release a PS3 game coming right from PS2, with ease.

Maybe the PS3 is harder to code for, but its not impossible.
 

nissanztt90

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lol you have two similar systems PC and XB360 and you have one that is a total PITA to program for. A company needs to make money and with PS3 sales in the shitter, why in the world would valve bother to develop for them?

Wii 50million
X360 30million
PS3 22million

Nice one champ. Statistical number skewing FTL. The 360 has sold 30 million vs the PS3's 22 million...dont forget to account for the extra year of sales time.

The 360 has been out since November 2005, 3.75 years, with 30 million sold. Thats 8 million per year.

The PS3 was released November of 2006, 2.75 years, with 22 million sold. Thats 8 million per year.

Both consoles are selling at the same rate, as per your numbers. Your arguement = epic fail.
 

gdonovan

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Both consoles are selling at the same rate, as per your numbers. Your arguement = epic fail.

I'll politely point out that Sony is losing money on every unit sold no?

Not a great business model for staying in business.

The drop in BR player prices is helping to kill the PS3, I'm told it was a good value in that regard.
 

zero2dash

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Not quite.Valve was doing just fine long before there was a PS.But given their present position in the console race,Sony needs all the help they can get.

Sony's in their position because the console costs more than it should at this point, and they have very few console exclusives. Even if Valve's games ran on the Ps3 like they run on the PC, and were supported similarly - it still wouldn't put Sony in 2nd place.

Once the slim comes out (and at $299 based on rumored prices and speculative pics/info), the Ps3 will make up some ground. Once God of War III comes out, that will help them as well. With most games going multiplatform these days though, Sony won't have a cakewalk like they did in the 64bit era.

~my $0.02 cents (as an owner of all 3 systems, plus 2 gaming PC's and several portables :))
 
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