Valve confirms Half-Life: Alyx

MavericK

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So you want to play VR and see your whole body standing in front of you? VR mimics reality. What do you see in front of you?
Most 2D FPS show your arms holding a weapon. How is this any different?
I guess he wants the arms, too? Raw Data does this and honestly it's not that much more immersive. You're not standing there looking at your arms, you're playing the game.
 

funkydmunky

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I guess he wants the arms, too? Raw Data does this and honestly it's not that much more immersive. You're not standing there looking at your arms, you're playing the game.
Oh I see now. In VR you just see the hands, but feel your arms move so it is seamless to me. Like you said, your focusing on the game. I guess the arms would block too many visuals and suck up processing power unnecessarily.
I get your point Flogger23m. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Trust me though, it is a non issue in VR.
In fact the first time I saw my hands in VR then brought them up to my face and examined them in detail, my mind was blown!
 

M76

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Your hands are your hand where ever you place them by extension of holding the controller. Do you not like seeing your own arms/hands in front of you in real life? Bizarre!
I'd be freaked out if my arms were invisible in real life.
 

Flogger23m

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I'd be freaked out if my arms were invisible in real life.
Indeed. Maybe it doesn't break immersion for some people but it does for me. And the arm movements look anything but realistic.

Yes, new technology that will get better over time. But lets not pretend it isn't an issue. Of course this game looks passable as expected. And outright great in others. It certainly is far above similar games as expected. Even if Valve's recent games are lackluster, they do have millions to throw around.
 

M76

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Lol where did you get the low Rez screen grab.
I typed "arizona sunshine" in google, how else?
I have also watched a few gameplays and my image is more representative of the game, than the I assume promo images you did. The actual game is somewhere in between from what I saw. Either way it does not look like a system seller.
 

odditory

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I couldn't focus on anything else during this trailer.
Indeed. Maybe it doesn't break immersion for some people but it does for me. And the arm movements look anything but realistic.
You guys sound like virgins talking about how much they hate condoms.

The only real immersion breaker is never having tried VR.
 

M76

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You guys sound like virgins talking about how much they hate condoms.

The only real immersion breaker is never having tried VR.
You want to sell me something I don't think is worth buying. I already said what I need to get into VR: AAA quality games. That won't change no matter how obnoxious you act.
 

Jim Kim

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Trailer looks amazeballs.
With VR stuff like this coming out in it's infancy I can't wait to see what we will be able to play 5-10 years from now.
 

trandoanhung1991

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If my g/f ends up playing this, will need to resist urge to grab top of her head at exact moment she's jumped by VR headcrab. Unfortunately I'm still working out some kinks in the strong self-control department.
A swift kick to the nuts would iron out those kinks pretty quickly me thinks :D
 

elvn

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Why don't you have a body? Is this normal for VR games? The floating hands are creepy.

I think this will be a limitation for a while yet. Only the head and the hands are tracked like a Muppet with control rods on the wrists. What's really needed is more motion capture points like elbow straps/pads, a belt, knee straps/pads , and ankle straps but that would require a higher end VR kit with several motion capture sensors and more expensive of course. It might also have higher demand on the cpu considering. Personally I'm not a fan of the floating rayman hands if I had the choice for arms but it works. I'd also like to see the body when I look down but it is what it is for now. People do mixed reality on twitch using a green screen so theoretically in the future you could map the imagery of the actual person playing onto the game character mesh with a surround mocap setup + cameras and wearing enough capture points for the skeleton of the mesh.

I'm hearing two different complaints.. one is it costs too much (when it's about the cost of a decent gaming monitor) and the other is that its not sophisticated enough - yet people don't want to pay for that sophistication. You don't get a full home theater big screen oled tv with 9.2 surround reciever and decent speakers plus atmos speakers in the ceiling and an all in one remote system for the price of a console but that seems like what some people are demanding. The 400 oculus s or linked oculus quest is good but it doesn't have the handful of wall mounted motion capture sensors that a $1000+ value vr kit would. Games have to work with the current limitations and keep it relatively affordable. For a $400+ oculus quest plus an oculus link cable I'll deal with the hands for this generation.
 
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Armenius

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As a Samsung Odyssey+ (one of the best bang for buck HMD out there) I hope Valve doesn't pull some proprietary BS. I don't think they can or will though as they will want the sales. But there could be some behind the scene deal. Vive and Index only if they are wanting to block out Occulus and WMR.

As a side note I only buy VR games now, and I believe user for user VR owners buy more games. Same logic that RTX-2080ti owners buy more games then an iGPU user. Those who invest in the hardware are more likely to exploit it with purchases. I don't think Valve is risking much on this VR only title. It will be a must have for most.
Unlike Facebook, Steam supports an open VR ecosystem. SteamVR can be made to work with any HMD through their SDK called OpenVR. Valve also supports the Open Source Virtual Reality Project (OSVR).
 

Krazy925

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I typed "arizona sunshine" in google, how else?
I have also watched a few gameplays and my image is more representative of the game, than the I assume promo images you did. The actual game is somewhere in between from what I saw. Either way it does not look like a system seller.
Sure you did anything to try to prove a point I take it, even when you go out of your way to find the shittiest blurry picture, one that looks nothing like how the in game experience looks. Sad.
 

Jim Kim

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Why don't you have a body? Is this normal for VR games? The floating hands are creepy.
That's something that looks jarring on a normal monitor, but in VR it's WAY better than modelling actual arms.

You have to keep in mind you're moving your real arms, and the hands are perfectly placed in the game space relative to where you "feel" your hands moving in the real world. Since arms aren't tracked, putting in "game arms" throws the experience off since they don't line up well enough with what you feel your body doing.

Also your brain just kind of fills in the placement of your arms, you don't even really notice the floaty hands. It's weird.


Quoted from Drayth bluesnews forums
 

rudy

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I hope that they let people play this on a regular mouse and keyboard even if the controls are not perfect. I really see no reason it cant be done.
I also hope that some sort of FPS multiplayer will come out of this. Halflife produced the best multiplayer games I have ever played in my life without valve even trying. No I mean literally they didnt even try they just slapped the MP together threw it out there and were done with it and yet somehow it was better than almost any other game I played from a raw game play experience. The polish and support sucked though.
 

Armenius

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I hope that they let people play this on a regular mouse and keyboard even if the controls are not perfect. I really see no reason it cant be done.
I also hope that some sort of FPS multiplayer will come out of this. Halflife produced the best multiplayer games I have ever played in my life without valve even trying. No I mean literally they didnt even try they just slapped the MP together threw it out there and were done with it and yet somehow it was better than almost any other game I played from a raw game play experience. The polish and support sucked though.
If the gameplay mechanics are solid then you really shouldn't need to put in any extra work for a multiplayer mode. I think old id games like Doom and Quake are a testament to this. In my opinion the biggest mistake modern games make is to try and make everything "balanced."
 
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elvn

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pillow fights aren't my thing anymore and I am very glad this is not being marketed as some battle royale spaz fest personally. This game is looking like it's got a lot of soul, supspense, story, impact. Hopefully it uses the storytelling and in the world personal experience VR can provide much better than pancake screens. There are plenty of other games for smash up derby gameplay. If anything a coop mode like remnant from the ashes might be interesting mp wise.
 

Youn

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remember Valve has two other VR games in the works, I wouldn't be surprised if one of them is left 4 dead or some other multiplayer thing (ricochet 2?)
 

Jim Kim

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remember Valve has two other VR games in the works, I wouldn't be surprised if one of them is left 4 dead or some other multiplayer thing (ricochet 2?)
Maybe something with 3 at the end of it.
oh, who am i kidding.:(
 

rudy

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If the gameplay mechanics are solid then you really shouldn't need to put in any extra work for a multiplayer mode. I think old id games like Doom and Quake are a testament to this. In my opinion the biggest mistake modern games make is to try and make everything "balanced."
Ya balance in modern games is actually a lie, what they mean is they just keep changing shit just to change it, no other reason.
remember Valve has two other VR games in the works, I wouldn't be surprised if one of them is left 4 dead or some other multiplayer thing (ricochet 2?)
I could see L4D but not Ricochet, that game was a total failure and no one played it and typically valve doesn't double down on such games.
 

Krazy925

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Ya balance in modern games is actually a lie, what they mean is they just keep changing shit just to change it, no other reason.


I could see L4D but not Ricochet, that game was a total failure and no one played it and typically valve doesn't double down on such games.
I completely forgot about ricochet. That game was hella fun. I remember playing 2 player but wasn’t it 4 player as well?
 

Flogger23m

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Sounds confident for a guy who didn't produce an A-list single player game for 15 years.
It is simply a limitation of the technology at the moment. The hand and weapon manipulation looks so unnatural. Does it have some benefits? Sure. But to say there aren't negatives of the current implementation is absurd. If jazz hands and weightless guns are your thing then more power to you. I'd certainly play the game, but crappy animations and invisible arms are still crappy animations and invisible arms.

Obviously there will be some people who argue that floppy hands and invisble arms are worth the downsides, which is a perfectly fine opinion. Some people think cartoon stuff like TF2 or Fortnite, MP only free to play games with dozens of monetized microtransactions and cosmetics are the future to. :p
 

readeh

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Ya balance in modern games is actually a lie, what they mean is they just keep changing shit just to change it, no other reason.


I could see L4D but not Ricochet, that game was a total failure and no one played it and typically valve doesn't double down on such games.
Recochet was such a damn funny game. Me and my friends spent hours playing that game while talking trash to each other.

On another note.. What VR need is some way of moving around in game without teleporting! Popping in and out with teleporting just takes me out of it. I don't care if I have to buy some kind of shoe sensors for moving or if I have to sit in a giant baby jumper that is attached to the ceiling while getting my balls crushed as long as it's fully immersive! PLUG ME INTO THE MATRIX, GABEN!
 

Youn

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What VR need is some way of moving around in game without teleporting!
VR games nowadays often provide a few movement options other than teleportation. in HL:A you can also do smooth transition and free movement with analog stick.
 

elvn

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VR games nowadays often provide a few movement options other than teleportation. in HL:A you can also do smooth transition and free movement with analog stick.
Back when I used to play "The Fight: Lights Out!" on ps3 move with two wand controllers I always thought the inclusion of a tilt plate foot pedal would have been a great addition. One where you rock the plate with one foot (or both feet) at any angle for a motion vector. It wouldn't have to be an extreme tilt that would throw off balance in order to work, especially if only using one foot. Perhaps something between a shallow dinner plate and a skateboard. It wouldn't need much height, just enough to sense weight shift. Using the hand controllers to move as well as box/street fight was not a good sysytem.
 
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Youn

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I think I saw that before but could only find this:
https://www.fitness-gaming.com/news...lance-training-for-patients-and-athletes.html

There have been a few other similar solutions here and there for VR, like a sorta wobbly stool that senses rotation and tilt, but with movement comfort improving with these better screens, refresh rates, and other techniques I'm not sure it'll be needed. Cool ideas to play around with though
 
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Dayaks

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Recochet was such a damn funny game. Me and my friends spent hours playing that game while talking trash to each other.

On another note.. What VR need is some way of moving around in game without teleporting! Popping in and out with teleporting just takes me out of it. I don't care if I have to buy some kind of shoe sensors for moving or if I have to sit in a giant baby jumper that is attached to the ceiling while getting my balls crushed as long as it's fully immersive! PLUG ME INTO THE MATRIX, GABEN!
A lot of games offer a joystick (or touchpad) option for moving.

Or find a field and setup VR there ;)
 

elvn

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A lot of games offer a joystick (or touchpad) option for moving.

Or find a field and setup VR there ;)
moving with the same controller hand you are using for two handed gunning, boxing, swords or sword and shield, etc with a directional isn't a good method. I'd really like a tilt foot pedal as a cheap solution outside of an expensive omni treadmill or suspended socks/rollers slider pad, etc.

I do happen to have a two pedal USB controller though so maybe I can map that to forward and backward at least.

I think I saw that before but could only find this:
https://www.fitness-gaming.com/news...lance-training-for-patients-and-athletes.html

There have been a few other similar solutions here and there for VR, like a sorta wobbly stool that senses rotation and tilt, but with movement comfort improving with these better screens, refresh rates, and other techniques I'm not sure it'll be needed. Cool ideas to play around with though
That's the general idea. Thanks. :)

https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16826880001
 
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elvn

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https://www.3drudder.com/pc-gaming/

https://shop.3drudder.com/default/products/3drudder-black-edition-bundle.html

Edit:

Even for games that don't have native support you can keyboard map all of the different controls on the 3drudder. It also has a mouse mode. They keyboard mapping sold me on it so I'm going to pick one up for sure. We won't have the oculus quest here utnil xmas since it's a gift however.

https://www.3drudder.com/accessibility-pc-games/
This review has a PiP of his feet during the review. Even though it's the psvr version it shows what the device can do pretty well. Unfortunately you can't map the playstaion or pc versions of the device to the other system unless you use something like a titan one or titan two crossover gaming adapter.
 
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elvn

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I think this will be a limitation for a while yet. Only the head and the hands are tracked like a Muppet with control rods on the wrists. What's really needed is more motion capture points like elbow straps/pads, a belt, knee straps/pads , and ankle straps but that would require a higher end VR kit with several motion capture sensors and more expensive of course. It might also have higher demand on the cpu considering. Personally I'm not a fan of the floating rayman hands if I had the choice for arms but it works. I'd also like to see the body when I look down but it is what it is for now. People do mixed reality on twitch using a green screen so theoretically in the future you could map the imagery of the actual person playing onto the game character mesh with a surround mocap setup + cameras and wearing enough capture points for the skeleton of the mesh.

I'm hearing two different complaints.. one is it costs too much (when it's about the cost of a decent gaming monitor) and the other is that its not sophisticated enough - yet people don't want to pay for that sophistication. You don't get a full home theater big screen oled tv with 9.2 surround reciever and decent speakers plus atmos speakers in the ceiling and an all in one remote system for the price of a console but that seems like what some people are demanding. The 400 oculus s or linked oculus quest is good but it doesn't have the handful of wall mounted motion capture sensors that a $1000+ value vr kit would. Games have to work with the current limitations and keep it relatively affordable. For a $400+ oculus quest plus an oculus link cable I'll deal with the hands for this generation.
Quoting myself there but I'm learning more about what's available for VR as I go. Apparently the Vive does have mocap straps you can buy.

Unfortunately they are $100... EACH. So having one on each ankle or foot, one on each knee, each elbow, and one on a belt on your waist would be another $700 + tax (with the head and hands covered by the vr headset and vr controllers). Some people use 3 for VR chat I guess, 1 for waist/hip and 1 for each foot which is $300+ tax obviously.

So there is a big disconnect between what people WANT from VR and the fact that a lot of people think a really good VR setup should be free or $100 total or something... o_O


reddit /r/ValveIndex/comments/c2k6i9/full_body_tracking_with_vive_trackers/
AerialShorts
13 points · 5 months ago
I believe the turquoise Vive logo means 2.0 tracking and if so, then they would work with 1.0 and 2.0 bases.

But if you get a full Index kit, you will have 2.0 bases, in which case trackers that are only 1.0 gen won’t be able to use 2.0 base's tracking and won’t work.

In short, just buy 2.0 trackers and you are good no matter what bases you have.

level 2
Donut_2_Ninja
7 points · 5 months agoBlue means it's 2.0 tracker which is backwards compatible with 1.0 lighthouses. You do need 3, (hip and both feet) and using them in VRChat you need to go into bindings and set each Puck to default so one of them doesn't become your hand. Trust me when I say, once you play VRC with full body you'll never want to play it any other way. I'd recommend getting lipstick battery packs so when they start to die you can plug them in while still wearing them. Battery life on them is about 4-5 hours and I'd also recommend just buying the straps that are made for them. They're super comfy and really well built. I made my own but after my design kept breaking I said screw it and just bought the straps. Which I wish I would have done from the start . If you haven't already, grab Playspace Mover as well
 
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5150Joker

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So which do I buy?? Samsung Odyssey+, Oculus Rift S or Oculus Quest w/the USB 3.0 cable?? Index is way the fuck out of my price range for a peripheral, I've got bills to pay.

Here's what I've read so far:

Quest: AMOLED displays which are better than Rift S but right now the USB 3.0 wire is in beta and performance hooked to a PC seems a little worse than Rift S but not really by much. It's also cheaper than Rift S.

Rift S: Older hardware but built for the PC with good controllers and tracking.

Odyssey: AMOLED, feels better to wear than Rift, not very good tracking like Rift S has.

Vive: Trash

So I'd say I'm really split between Rift S and Quest as they're my two contenders.
 

Ricky T

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So which do I buy?? Samsung Odyssey+, Oculus Rift S or Oculus Quest w/the USB 3.0 cable?? Index is way the fuck out of my price range for a peripheral, I've got bills to pay.

Here's what I've read so far:

Quest: AMOLED displays which are better than Rift S but right now the USB 3.0 wire is in beta and performance hooked to a PC seems a little worse than Rift S but not really by much. It's also cheaper than Rift S.

Rift S: Older hardware but built for the PC with good controllers and tracking.

Odyssey: AMOLED, feels better to wear than Rift, not very good tracking like Rift S has.

Vive: Trash

So I'd say I'm really split between Rift S and Quest as they're my two contenders.
Quest and Rift S have the exact same controllers. If you don't plan on gaming anywhere but at your gaming PC then the Rift S is the better choice. It has slightly better tracking with its additional camera and you won't have to worry about the image or tracking being compromised like it will be using Link on the Quest. And most people find the Rift S to be far more comfortable than the Quest for longer gaming sessions. The Rift S will be $349 next week so maybe that'll help with your decision.
 
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elvn

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From what I saw the S and the Quest were essentially the same price new ~ $400 depending which model you got of the quest. The 64gb version of the Quest is $400 at major retailers new. Of course either could go on sale at some time or another. I went with the Quest after watching a few vids about the link cable and the fact that it's OLED is a big plus to me. I'm done with ips and tn black depths and contrast ratios. Combined with the fact that it's sort of a VR "switch" portable unit in it's other role it seems like a much better deal overall for our usage scenarios which include some fitness type games standalone untethered and taking the headset along to show VR off to friends and family I guess too. It's sort of a household xmas gift though so I won't be able to give any personal impressions until after xmas.

I agree that the index let alone index + added quality peripherals is a lot of money. That's into larger purchase territory like a large high end tv.. which is worthwhile to some people but VR doesn't have the library and advancement just yet to justify that kind of price to most people at this point I'd guess. For now $400 + a cable and a peripheral seems more reasonable to me. If I got the index I'd end up blowing several hundred more on misc stuff for it too I'm sure.

Perhaps if VR gaming was at the point where I would choose a higher end VR kit over getting a big gaming monitor upgrade (a hdmi 2.1 4k 10bit 444 chroma 120hz VRR HDR OLED tv/monitor in 2020 once 3080ti gpus are out) I would reconsider. That would be an either/or scenario though not both and at this point I don't see that leap happening. They are both in the same price range more or less ($1100 - $1300 each). I'll already be shelling out for a 3080ti in 2020 which is sort of doubling down already on display + big gpu upgrade. I don't need to triple down :yuck:
 
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