VA better than IPS for eye comfort and reading?

FOSS-I

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I've read conflicting things. The latest Asus Eye Care monitors are IPS at 75 Hz. There's a previous generation that is still readily available that's VA at 60 Hz. What is the rationale for why VA sometimes is considered more comfortable? Just higher static contrast? And is 75 Hz noticeable for office work in terms of reducing stress on the eyes?
 

ors

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In my experience it's the other way around. IPS will top VA screens for office work any day. Only thing going for VA there is it's price, which usually is lower. And no, the extra 15Hz won't help with stress on eyes. But 60Hz is adequate for office work anyway since you don't have as much continuous movement as in a FPS game... What has a much bigger impact for office work is PPI, the higher the better, and make sure you get a "flicker free" monitor as they advertise them now (no PWM used for brightness control).
 

FOSS-I

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In my experience it's the other way around. IPS will top VA screens for office work any day. Only thing going for VA there is it's price, which usually is lower. And no, the extra 15Hz won't help with stress on eyes. But 60Hz is adequate for office work anyway since you don't have as much continuous movement as in a FPS game... What has a much bigger impact for office work is PPI, the higher the better, and make sure you get a "flicker free" monitor as they advertise them now (no PWM used for brightness control).
That sounds totally sensible, but I've read numerous anecdotes, including on this forum, saying things like:

"Fully agree with you. The only aspect of the monitors I've been trying in the past year that still remains problematic, is IPS glow. There's no other explanation as to why I've had such problems with all my IPS panels. Back on the 40" VA and I feel mostly fine after a few days."

"It's been a couple of more weeks. Still no eye fatigue from a VA monitor. And I did end up staying with the 32UD60, despite the uniformity issue. Eye comfort is way more important to me. And after years of dealing with eye fatigue from monitors, no way I would go back to IPS or TN."

"I must admit that VA are in some way more like flat surface in that eyes have at least surface to focus at, unlike IPS which seems to be more like watching transparent mosaic of colored glass. "

"Low constrast or not, on the VA panel I feel much less like I'm looking at the backlight than the panel itself. And even within my lower contrast setup for text, there is much more range on the VA than on IPS. For example, I have a slightly lighter active line color than the background color set up in my text editor. On IPS, I can just barely make out the active line color. On VA, the active line color is very obvious."

"I am 100% sure IPS technology somehow negatively affecting my eyes. I can't sit in front of IPS panel any longer than 30 mins. My eye start burning and tearing. I had 3 IPS monitors, which are returned now to a shop due to the same eye strain. They were perfectly calibrated with ideal color temperature and NO PWM. Before IPS monitors I had low quality TN panel with a strong blue tint on my older laptop, I was able to sit in front of it 24/7 without any discomfort. Now, after I returned 3 IPS monitors, I bought TN panel and I feel such a GREAT RELIEF on my eyes , as I can easily work for 8 hours without any problems."

"I've had the same experience. Last Spring I was shopping for a new ThinkPad and tried several different machines before reluctantly deciding to beef up my aging T530. The TN panel on my T530 doesn't cause me any fatigue whatsoever, but every model I tried with an IPS panel really punished my eyes."
 

FOSS-I

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Here's another user complaining about eye strain from a Dell UltraSharp IPS:

"Bought u2715h dell ultra sharp 2560x1440 ips. Eye strain nearly immediately even at 15% brightness."
Someone else asks: "Did you figure out why? I've been using this monitor for the last couple of weeks and I'm having serious eye strain."

He says, "no not really though i assume its the ips panel as much of a bummer that is... i bought an ultrawide 3440x14400 samsung after that and had 0 issues with eye strain. its a VA panel..though i took it back because of colour banding/dithering/black crush issues."
 

ors

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That is very strange since the u2715h doesn't use PWM for backlight dimming, so should be good for eye strain. Regarding seeing lines better on VA than IPS I again have the opposite experience. When viewed off angle VA panels wash out more, so on a big screen edges will be harder to read on VA vs IPS. IPS glow is only a problem if you want to use dark themes at night, in a (well) lit room it's not a problem though. Currently I'm using VA screens only (a 32" 4k lg and a 32" 1440p aoc) since IPS I deem overpriced in 32" screens currently, but for general use I want to move to a 32" 4k IPS as soon as prices become affordable since the lg VA has horrendous smearing even in the browser, not to mention games...

Had a dell u2311h before, that one uses PWM for dimming and is IPS and still had no eye fatigue problems with it at all. Recently had to change over to dark theme on my 32" 4k lg since my eyes were shot (felt like staring into the sun although I always have brightness close to minimal), no problems since though, granted due to the virus lock down I had been using the screen even more than before...

Long story short, I don't really think there is a sure way of knowing how a panel will be for eye strain, other than the obvious: Hz is not king like on CRT anymore for eye strain (but you really want 60 minimum), avoid PWM screens, adjust brightness to your needs, make sure you have as little glare into the monitor as possible from external light sources, if reading all day on it prioritize high PPI.
 
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IdiotInCharge

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since the lg VA has horrendous smearing even in the browser, not to mention games...
Even their 1440p version has this in spades. I honestly have no idea how reviewers weren't screaming about it, coming from a 27" IPS myself, it was a shock!

I've stuck with it enough to read a few guides to minimize the effect and I guess get used to it, as it's not too bad in games once calibrated, and text needs some ClearType tuning to look good (enough) on the desktop... but if I don't get an OLED next, I'll get an IPS. Price be damned.

He says, "no not really though i assume its the ips panel as much of a bummer that is... i bought an ultrawide 3440x14400 samsung after that and had 0 issues with eye strain. its a VA panel..though i took it back because of colour banding/dithering/black crush issues."
To expound: a VA may be made to measure well, and many users will not notice the deficiencies, but as a life-long gamer and veteran amateur photographer with good eye acuity and color perception, they fall very short of the mark.

For text clarity and just overall comfort for desktop use, get an IPS. I have a pair of 32" VA panels on my desk right now, a 27" IPS in the other room, a 30" IPS dinosaur my wife is using (that at ten years old still calibrates well), and the cheap 24" IPS that I bought for US$100 as one of two side monitors is still perhaps the most comfortable screen to read on!
 

Yuriy83

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Refresh rate doesn't cause eye strain on LCD panels because the backlight is not synced with it (unless it's ULMB in gaming monitors). However 75Hz is noticably smoother than 60Hz in my opinion and is nice to have.
"Comfort" is very subjective. If we're talking eye strain / head aches then from my experience panel technology has nothing to do with it. If anything texts can look pretty bad on VAs due to its pixel layout.

I've used 9 LCDs in the past 10 years 3 TNs, 2 VAs, 4 IPS. My impressions in terms of comfort:

TNs: 1 excelent, 1 unusable, 1 very good.
VAs: both good, no eye strain, but fuzzy texts.
IPS: 1 unusable, 1 excelent, 1 excelent (old HP ZR22w) still use it for everything other than gaming, 1 tolerable (some discomfort).

There are more things to displays like panel quality, coating, Vcom, pixel layout etc. It all comes down to particular model. You can't really tell unless you try it. But in general no, IPS is not worse than VA in terms of comfort.
 
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Snowdog

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I've read conflicting things. The latest Asus Eye Care monitors are IPS at 75 Hz. There's a previous generation that is still readily available that's VA at 60 Hz. What is the rationale for why VA sometimes is considered more comfortable? Just higher static contrast? And is 75 Hz noticeable for office work in terms of reducing stress on the eyes?
Most people have no flipping idea what causes their issues, and probably only tried one of each type.

Many things that can influence eye fatigue that have nothing to do with panel type:

Brightness, Color temperature, PWM. - backlight related items.

Screen coating (glare reduction of various strengths). Early IPS monitors (10+ years ago) had particularly grainy coatings that annoyed a lot of people. People may still be remember their one IPS panel from a decade ago, when they aren't actually like this today.

Next you might have pixel structure anomalies, non standard sub-pixels, can make pixels fuzzy, but this is again more rare today.

When you get to the actual LCD types, I have owned them all, and I only had problem with VA, and I understand exactly what caused my problem with VA.

VA has the strongest horizontal contrast shift of any LCD panel type. People say viewing angles don't matter if you sit straight behind the monitor, but that isn't true.

If you sit typically close to a VA monitor, the horizontal viewing angle weakness is strong enough, that each eye will be a different angle to the screen, that different angle means each eye sees a different brightness. This can create weird edge artifacts and false 3D effect that shifts with small changes in head position. Most people aren't sensitive to this, but I am, so VA will give me headaches because of this, and I can't use them for very long. Again this doesn't seem to bother most poeple.

I don't know of any unique issues IPS/TN technology that would cause eye strain, its mostly backlight/coating related, and that can impact any panel type.
 

kasakka

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Maybe I am not sensitive to any of this but using an IPS laptop screen and tablet, VA monitor at home, 5K IPS at work while also owning a TN monitor and VA and OLED TVs, I really don't see any difference between these when it comes to text quality etc when properly configured. TN has noticeable color shift but the ASUS PG278Q I have is not too bad at this as long as you don't put it in portrait orientation. It also has the grainiest antiglare coating, being the oldest of the monitors. The VA TV is BGR so it needs to be configured with that in mine, my VA super ultrawide is RGB so no issues there. I had to look at solid color test photos to even see horizontal color shift on it.

I agree that for most people panel type would not be a factor in eye comfort. Don't run the display at high brightness in a dark room, avoid displays with PWM backlight.
 

FOSS-I

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Thanks for the informative replies. All are valued, particularly from those with multiple displays who really know what they are talking about.

Someone else says, "I have also found polarisation to be a common theme in my screen problems, OLED and LCD screens can cause me problems, both of which use polarisation, E-Ink and plasma are fine, neither of which use polarisation. I personally find I can use certain TN type LCD screens without issue, but cannot use any IPS type screens, you may find this to be useful avenue to explore."

And then someone says, "Hey everyone, couple of things I thought id share. I bought a Benq eyecare monitor yesterday, just a cheap one at $159. It uses a VA screen instead of IPS. I've used it for over 6 hours today and can report very minimal eyestrain, actually the best experience with any screen I've had in over a year. Thanks Seagull for suggesting trying out a non-IPS."

For whatever reason, I've read many cases of users going from an IPS to a VA and finding relief from the VA. Here is a long thread from an experienced user who found relief from a high-end VA:

"Eyestrain solved after 6 years and multiple panels - LG 32gk850g"
https://ledstrain.org/d/379-eyestrain-solved-after-6-years-and-multiple-panels-lg-32gk850g


Something I've noticed in my own case is that the biggest help is keeping the brightness low AND also keeping the contrast low enough to match the ambient lighting. Right now I'm literally sitting in the dark. That might not seem ideal, but I have the brightness on 0 and contrast at only 13, and this is working fine for me in this environment. Therefore, I wonder if those who know enough to know brightness causes eye strain are also toning down the contrast level, which seems to function as a secondary brightness control. I tend to do well keeping brightness at 0 in any environment, and then using the contrast control to get the picture right.

In my experience this helps a lot.

Saying that, VA definitely is a different technology versus IPS, so it's plausible some people could find it more suitable. Also, historically IPS panels were 6 bit + FRC while VA has much more often been true 8 bit. The lack of dithering could help some people.

The other thing about VA is that static contrast is usually quoted at 3000:1 versus the IPS standard of 1000:1. That's 3X as much, so that's a great difference, and that could make the screens more enjoyably usable when brightness is cranked down.
 

CraigHB

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I bought an IPS monitor recently and was wondering if I should have bought a VA. I had read VA is best for comfort and quality. Sounds like IPS is as good or better. I'll probably just stick with IPS then, I need a new monitor for another desktop machine.
 

Snowdog

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Saying that, VA definitely is a different technology versus IPS, so it's plausible some people could find it more suitable. Also, historically IPS panels were 6 bit + FRC while VA has much more often been true 8 bit. The lack of dithering could help some people.
This is not true. IPS has traditionally been the preferred choice for color work, and are usually 8 bit panels. TN panels were the one that were usually 6 bit + FRC.
 

XoR_

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Refresh rate on LCD does not affect eye fatigue because LCD only refreshes orientation of liquid crystals. Backlight flickering might however affect eye-fatigue but it have nothing to do with screen refresh rate. Should not be issue on most new monitors today anyway.
Contrast ratio required to read text is like 50:1 so it cannot be contrast either and CRT's with their haloing and such had somewhere around this if not less ;)
IPS glow shouldn't cause eye fatigue either.

I made remark about pixel structure as possible culprit for some people liking different panels more. To me it seems my eyes focus differently on IPS than VA. Having matte AG over screen surface also affect this a little and hard matte coating can make your eyes focus on it instead of layer beneath. I remember seeing comments of people complaining about eye strain issues from IPS displays which had very hard matte coating like Dell U2410/U2711 and the same people claimed other IPS monitors with more reasonable coatings were ok for them. I had Dell U2410 and never had any eye fatigue problems from it... then again I have excellent eyesight with very precise autofocus 🙂

I would say the best solution for eye strain issues would be to not assume that just because you see something clearly you use eyes/focus properly and spend some effort calibrating your eyes. My own experience tells me that I am able to focus on screen surfaces in wrong way and still see clear image and if I was using eyes in this way I would have eye strain issues!

Brightness, Color temperature, PWM. - backlight related items.
I would add light spectrum here also.
W-LED monitors are pretty terrible when it comes to light spectrum and my eyes will not tolerate brightness levels on this technology they can on different technologies with better light spectrum.

Screen coating (glare reduction of various strengths). Early IPS monitors (10+ years ago) had particularly grainy coatings that annoyed a lot of people. People may still be remember their one IPS panel from a decade ago, when they aren't actually like this today.
I had Dell U2410, AG coating on this thing was so overdone it looked pretty ridiculous :ROFLMAO:

If you sit typically close to a VA monitor, the horizontal viewing angle weakness is strong enough, that each eye will be a different angle to the screen, that different angle means each eye sees a different brightness. This can create weird edge artifacts and false 3D effect that shifts with small changes in head position. Most people aren't sensitive to this, but I am, so VA will give me headaches because of this, and I can't use them for very long. Again this doesn't seem to bother most poeple.
This effect never really gave me eye fatigue and I used VA panels for few years. It was however extremely annoying and completely ruined image quality.
 

XoR_

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Someone else says, "I have also found polarisation to be a common theme in my screen problems, OLED and LCD screens can cause me problems, both of which use polarisation, E-Ink and plasma are fine, neither of which use polarisation. I personally find I can use certain TN type LCD screens without issue, but cannot use any IPS type screens, you may find this to be useful avenue to explore."
Unlikely cause. I would rather suspect light spectrum.
W-LED light spectrum:
800px-White_LED.png
Older CCFL LCD's were much more comfortable at very high brightness levels than W-LEDs and back them pretty much nothing was PWM-free... though flickering was less harsh due to how fluorescent lamps like these works.


And then someone says, "Hey everyone, couple of things I thought id share. I bought a Benq eyecare monitor yesterday, just a cheap one at $159. It uses a VA screen instead of IPS. I've used it for over 6 hours today and can report very minimal eyestrain, actually the best experience with any screen I've had in over a year. Thanks Seagull for suggesting trying out a non-IPS."
Benq is strongly invested in A-MVA panels.
I cannot comment on this particular monitor but I had Benq A-MVA monitor and it had pretty clean sharp image with very clean semi-glossy AG coating. LEDs used on this monitor were pretty terrible but they changed this aspect numerous times so this "eyecare" model might use good LED's and blue light blocking filters or something.

For whatever reason, I've read many cases of users going from an IPS to a VA and finding relief from the VA. Here is a long thread from an experienced user who found relief from a high-end VA:
Like I mentioned in previous post VA seems to need slightly different eye focus and they tend to use lightest AG coating.
Probably the best to try it out for yourself.

Something I've noticed in my own case is that the biggest help is keeping the brightness low AND also keeping the contrast low enough to match the ambient lighting. Right now I'm literally sitting in the dark. That might not seem ideal, but I have the brightness on 0 and contrast at only 13, and this is working fine for me in this environment. Therefore, I wonder if those who know enough to know brightness causes eye strain are also toning down the contrast level, which seems to function as a secondary brightness control. I tend to do well keeping brightness at 0 in any environment, and then using the contrast control to get the picture right.
If you need to lower brightness to the levels where almost nothing is seen then this sounds either like monitor you are using have ridiculous HDR-like brightness or serious issues with eyes. Do you use corrective glasses?

Saying that, VA definitely is a different technology versus IPS, so it's plausible some people could find it more suitable. Also, historically IPS panels were 6 bit + FRC while VA has much more often been true 8 bit. The lack of dithering could help some people.
IPS were always considered superior to VA in color quality and were 8bit. Around 10 years ago panels with 6-bit + A-FCR started appearing but those were mostly cheapest models. There were also VA models that used 6bit + A-FCR like Samsung cPVA used in Samsung F2380. I even had this monitor and if not for the totally screwed up gamma response I would say it was superb monitor when it comes to text clarity, better than A-MVA panels. I also used CCFL backlight and had near perfect sRGB coverage. But yeah, gamma response was terrible so I do not recommend it. It was also like really really slow, rivaled only ba passive matrix laptops from 90's...

The other thing about VA is that static contrast is usually quoted at 3000:1 versus the IPS standard of 1000:1. That's 3X as much, so that's a great difference, and that could make the screens more enjoyably usable when brightness is cranked down.
Better to get monitor which can go to very low brightness just using backlight/brighness...
 

Comixbooks

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You just need to let your eyes burn a bit this is why I use a 21.5 asus for everything. I have two backups it's the smaller size that works. I just unboxed my 2016 1440p TN 24 inch played a minute of Borderlands 3 on it it's just so yellow compared to my vertical alignment Samsung 24 inch.

I would stick to 1080P if anything for general use and use as bigger monitor for gaming maybe even get a laptop for general use my dad has no issues with his.
 

CraigHB

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I like 1080p a lot. If I were to go to a bigger resolution like 1440p, I would need a proportionally bigger screen and that might cause problems for comfort having a view space that large. 1080p fits just right. Using a 27", replaced a 24", like the 27" better.

My laptop has a 17", I knew I would need the biggest screen I could get when I went laptop shopping. That one is a bit rough for me to use long periods, it's just too small. Still it's pretty luxurious for a laptop.
 
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Snowdog

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I would add light spectrum here also.
W-LED monitors are pretty terrible when it comes to light spectrum and my eyes will not tolerate brightness levels on this technology they can on different technologies with better light spectrum..
Yeah, I was actually thinking about Wide Gamut panels when I wrote color temperature. Backlight spectrum is the real issue.
 

FOSS-I

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W-LED monitors are pretty terrible when it comes to light spectrum and my eyes will not tolerate brightness levels on this technology they can on different technologies with better light spectrum..
Aren't they all W-LED now? Even the latest Asus Eye Care say W-LED:
https://www.displayspecifications.com/en/model/45991b94

So why are they using these backlights if they are "pretty terrible" as you say?

As for my eyes, I'm sure they have their issues. I find benefits as I say from running 0 brightness and using the contrast level to find a suitable brightness based on the ambient lighting in the room.

Which monitors use better backlight technology than W-LED? That new Asus though using W-LED says: "VA24EHE has undergone stringent performance tests to be flicker-free and to emit low blue light levels."
 

FOSS-I

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So I see an obvious reason why people might be saying VA is more comfortable than IPS: if they're all using "terrible" backlights, namely W-LED, then with the VA screen you turn it way down without as much compromising the picture quality since static contrast is 3X higher.
 

MistaSparkul

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For whatever reason, I've read many cases of users going from an IPS to a VA and finding relief from the VA. Here is a long thread from an experienced user who found relief from a high-end VA:

"Eyestrain solved after 6 years and multiple panels - LG 32gk850g"
https://ledstrain.org/d/379-eyestrain-solved-after-6-years-and-multiple-panels-lg-32gk850g
I'm sorry but I totally gotta disagree with that post as someone who used to own an LG32GK850G. When I first got it, I noticed that text clarity was blurry but I just assumed that it was all down to the monitor being lower PPI than what I had been used to in recent years (Dell S2417DG with 123 PPI). But then after I got my first 240Hz monitor which was a 23.8" 1080p TN screen which has very similar PPI to the LG, I IMMEDIATELY noticed that text clarity was far better on the TN panel so I knew right away that PPI had nothing to do with the LG being blurry, it just has poor text quality in general so I'm not sure how that guy found it to be the solution to his problem.
 

FOSS-I

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I'm sorry but I totally gotta disagree with that post as someone who used to own an LG32GK850G. When I first got it, I noticed that text clarity was blurry but I just assumed that it was all down to the monitor being lower PPI than what I had been used to in recent years (Dell S2417DG with 123 PPI). But then after I got my first 240Hz monitor which was a 23.8" 1080p TN screen which has very similar PPI to the LG, I IMMEDIATELY noticed that text clarity was far better on the TN panel so I knew right away that PPI had nothing to do with the LG being blurry, it just has poor text quality in general so I'm not sure how that guy found it to be the solution to his problem.
Probably because text clarity had nothing to do with his eye strain. For the record, are current generation TN screens good for office work? How are the viewing angles?
 

MistaSparkul

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Probably because text clarity had nothing to do with his eye strain. For the record, are current generation TN screens good for office work? How are the viewing angles?
That guy's findings makes zero sense to me as both the PG27Q and LG32GK850G both use W-LED type backlights and guess what? The MINIMUM brightness of the LG is 67 nits while the Asus has a minimum of 51 nits....so he's saying the BRIGHTER monitor is the more comfortable one when he was complaining about the Asus being TOO bright...funny. Unless his Asus unit in particular just had really fudged brightness and the minimum brightness was like 100 nits or something.

1590528836546.png
1590528803546.png


Anyways when it comes to modern TN panels I would say they are fine for office use. Viewing angles have improved but are still not up to IPS levels of course, they are still much better than old TN panels and should be good enough.
 

FOSS-I

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What stands out in your chart is the much higher contrast of the VA panel, and also the much lower black point at each brightness level. Therefore the screen may be run at lower brightness without ruining the picture quality. What do you think of that? By the way, where did you find that useful data?
 

MistaSparkul

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Could be. It's just as others have mentioned that there are so many variables in determining what makes a monitor easy on the eyes.
 

FOSS-I

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Another interesting comment I read:

"IPS has the most thick layer of all, so requires stronger backlight/ LEDs, power consumption is generally higher on IPS with the same performance in brightness.
I do use IPS but even on the lowest back light level, it still "burns" my face for extended periods of time, TN and VA are quite less agressive in this regard.
I think the best technology for the majority of people right now is VA, a high end VA panel can have great contrast performance decent, response time, wide color gamut, high brightness levels, and to me the most important aspect is color volume IPS has gigantic problem with color volume, it needs to be a certain brightness level to achieve high color performance, but VA generally a more consistent color range in different brightness settings."
 

XoR_

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I'm sorry but I totally gotta disagree with that post as someone who used to own an LG32GK850G. When I first got it, I noticed that text clarity was blurry but I just assumed that it was all down to the monitor being lower PPI than what I had been used to in recent years (Dell S2417DG with 123 PPI). But then after I got my first 240Hz monitor which was a 23.8" 1080p TN screen which has very similar PPI to the LG, I IMMEDIATELY noticed that text clarity was far better on the TN panel so I knew right away that PPI had nothing to do with the LG being blurry, it just has poor text quality in general so I'm not sure how that guy found it to be the solution to his problem.
Actually some VA panels (eg. all Samsung S-PVA) were known for having worse text clarity due to how pixel brightness is controlled by two sub-sub-pixels within one sub-pixel
This model seems to have the same issue (you can see how font edges use half of pixel height)
32gk850g-cleartype-on-large.jpg

Incidentally this suggest that the panel have better viewing than models without it angles because panels with this design have less gamma shift.
I owned S-PVA and gamma shift was there sure but it was not as terrible as later on two VAs with cPVA and A-MVA which had nicer subpixel structure but gamma shift was atrocious.

EDIT://
something to read: https://forum.pcmonitors.info/topic/text-rendering-on-va-panels/
 
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FOSS-I

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Some more comments worth sharing:

"I have and use (and have used) many IPS displays between home and work. And what I notice in comparison to my current VA display is that my eyes get fatigued faster with IPS. I have ditched a number of devices with IPS displays at this point, not just monitors, because of eye fatigue from those devices. For phones, my eyes have been more comfortable with OLED than IPS. For laptops, my eyes have been more comfortable with TN than IPS. For monitors, my eyes have been more comfortable with TN and VA than IPS. And on backlighting, my eyes have been more comfortable with CRT and CCFL than W-LED. And I never once got eye fatigue from either. I did get dry eyes from CRT though."

"I agree with you. VA is regularly far easier for me to look at than IPS. At the same time, the OLED display in my current Moto Z2 Play is a million times easier to look at than any other IPS phone I've used. Again, I think it has to do with contrast, although OLEDs do tend to be warmer than WLED backlights. But yeah, the evidence is there also in my own experience to conclude that the panel technology has a noticeable effect in eye-strain."

"In my experience eye fatigue has been the worst with the combination of IPS/W-LED."

"But something that I notice with VA is the soft appearance of text edges. Keep in mind that I turn off text anti-aliasing (cleartype in windows; I run both windows and linux). But even with anti-aliasing off, text isn't sharp on a VA. Also keep in mind that I just gave a 4K VA monitor a try to see if there was any improvement. Nope. There is a higher DPI with 4K that allows for less jaggy text with anti-aliasing off, but there is still a softness to text edges.

At this point I am considering giving a smaller TN monitor a try. Color accuracy and viewing angles are very low priority to me. And I can definitely give up some screen real estate for any gain in eye comfort. But ultimately, I think the elephant in the room is reading lots of text from a backlit monitor (no non-backlit monitors exist) and the light spectrum of W-LED adding to that. I also think that any sort of flashing adds to it (PWM, dithering).

It's crazy to me that even crappy newspaper print is far and above more comfortable to read than the best technology available today."

"Real world: I swapped back in my U2515H to try it again this morning with fresh eyes. This thing is earaching my eyes..."

"Right away I feel like my eyes are being assaulted. Despite this thing having a higher DPI and very noticeably sharper text (at ~ the same text size as what I used on the VA), and my eyes can't hold focus. Changing the text size doesn't matter. The color is setup warm and changing it doesn't matter. The room has good ambient lighting. Viiewing distance doesn't matter. The only notable change here is swapping monitors (VA for IPS). And what's odd is that I can't identify any problem, other than the IPS glow. This monitor has good uniformity, as good as the VA. But it has that overall silvery sheen glow to it that I see on all IPS displays, and my eyes can't deal with it. And when this monitor was released, reviewers gave it a big thumbs up. I have since learned that for the use case of working with text and eye fatigue, monitor reviewers have nothing of any real benefit to offer. Personal experience and discussion with other people (whatever the product) is much more fruitful."

"The points which I constantly see when arguing the merits of IPS are color correctness and viewing angles. But for working with text, those points don't amount to anything. Working with text doesn't require best color, and with sane monitor sizes, it doesn't require best viewing angles. What does matter when working with text much more than any other aspect is eye comfort. Right now, I have two VA's (1440 and 4K) and a TN (laptop) that are much more comfortable on the eyes than three IPS displays (monitors and phone). And I have looked at many other monitors and use a number of other monitors at work."

"I owned two IPS panels and found them harder on the eyes than their TN counterparts."

Refer to this thread: https://hardforum.com/threads/eye-strain-with-new-monitor-how-did-you-deal-with-it.1978812/page-2
 
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Yuriy83

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I think the best technology for the majority of people right now is VA, a high end VA panel can have great contrast performance decent, response time, wide color gamut
I wouldn't listen to someone who advocates wide color gamut.
 

XoR_

[H]ard|Gawd
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I wouldn't listen to someone who advocates wide color gamut.
Wide gamut is not ideal for text rendering as it messes with ClearType which is calibrated for sRGB. This is why I didn't get wide gamut for my main text monitor...

For color quality wide gamut are more accurate, at least as long as sRGB emulation is present as decent.
Native sRGB monitors almost never hit chromatic target and all W-LED monitors will have oversaturated blue.
 

Snowdog

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Some more comments worth sharing:

"I have and use (and have used) many IPS displays between home and work. And what I notice in comparison to my current VA display is that my eyes get fatigued faster with IPS. I have ditched a number of devices with IPS displays at this point, not just monitors, because of eye fatigue from those devices. For phones, my eyes have been more comfortable with OLED than IPS. For laptops, my eyes have been more comfortable with TN than IPS. For monitors, my eyes have been more comfortable with TN and VA than IPS. And on backlighting, my eyes have been more comfortable with CRT and CCFL than W-LED. And I never once got eye fatigue from either. I did get dry eyes from CRT though."

"I agree with you. VA is regularly far easier for me to look at than IPS. At the same time, the OLED display in my current Moto Z2 Play is a million times easier to look at than any other IPS phone I've used. Again, I think it has to do with contrast, although OLEDs do tend to be warmer than WLED backlights. But yeah, the evidence is there also in my own experience to conclude that the panel technology has a noticeable effect in eye-strain."

"In my experience eye fatigue has been the worst with the combination of IPS/W-LED."

"But something that I notice with VA is the soft appearance of text edges. Keep in mind that I turn off text anti-aliasing (cleartype in windows; I run both windows and linux). But even with anti-aliasing off, text isn't sharp on a VA. Also keep in mind that I just gave a 4K VA monitor a try to see if there was any improvement. Nope. There is a higher DPI with 4K that allows for less jaggy text with anti-aliasing off, but there is still a softness to text edges.

At this point I am considering giving a smaller TN monitor a try. Color accuracy and viewing angles are very low priority to me. And I can definitely give up some screen real estate for any gain in eye comfort. But ultimately, I think the elephant in the room is reading lots of text from a backlit monitor (no non-backlit monitors exist) and the light spectrum of W-LED adding to that. I also think that any sort of flashing adds to it (PWM, dithering).

It's crazy to me that even crappy newspaper print is far and above more comfortable to read than the best technology available today."

"Real world: I swapped back in my U2515H to try it again this morning with fresh eyes. This thing is earaching my eyes..."

"Right away I feel like my eyes are being assaulted. Despite this thing having a higher DPI and very noticeably sharper text (at ~ the same text size as what I used on the VA), and my eyes can't hold focus. Changing the text size doesn't matter. The color is setup warm and changing it doesn't matter. The room has good ambient lighting. Viiewing distance doesn't matter. The only notable change here is swapping monitors (VA for IPS). And what's odd is that I can't identify any problem, other than the IPS glow. This monitor has good uniformity, as good as the VA. But it has that overall silvery sheen glow to it that I see on all IPS displays, and my eyes can't deal with it. And when this monitor was released, reviewers gave it a big thumbs up. I have since learned that for the use case of working with text and eye fatigue, monitor reviewers have nothing of any real benefit to offer. Personal experience and discussion with other people (whatever the product) is much more fruitful."

"The points which I constantly see when arguing the merits of IPS are color correctness and viewing angles. But for working with text, those points don't amount to anything. Working with text doesn't require best color, and with sane monitor sizes, it doesn't require best viewing angles. What does matter when working with text much more than any other aspect is eye comfort. Right now, I have two VA's (1440 and 4K) and a TN (laptop) that are much more comfortable on the eyes than three IPS displays (monitors and phone). And I have looked at many other monitors and use a number of other monitors at work."

"I owned two IPS panels and found them harder on the eyes than their TN counterparts."

Refer to this thread: https://hardforum.com/threads/eye-strain-with-new-monitor-how-did-you-deal-with-it.1978812/page-2
You keep scouring for repetitive quotes stating the same thing. Are you trying to convince us or yourself?
 
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FOSS-I

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It just shows there really are some who claim IPS strains their eyes while VA doesn't.

Here's anoother comment:

"There is 0 IPS panels which I can currently use. The only screens I can use are VA or AMOLED panels. I haven't experimented enough with TN. I would say that when done properly AMOLED is even more comfortable for me than VA. Several times I thought a monitor or phone with an IPS display was "the one" but always it becomes painful after a few weeks maximum timeframe. There is something sharp about the display and I feel like I can't focus on it well."

I'm not looking to offend those who've invested significant dollars on IPS equipment. Just wanting a reasonable discussion.

Also read this: "In theory a native 8-bit display (most VA panels, some high-end IPS) SHOULD eliminate dithering."

I'm seeing more low-end IPS screens with true 8 bit. Asus' latest Eye Care release is supposed to be true 8 bit, and it's a budget offering. However, historically at the lower end only VA were true 8 bit. Low end IPS have been 6 bit + FRC. Samsung's latest business offerings are still 6 bit + FRC for around US$200.
 
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Snowdog

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It just shows there really are some who claim IPS strains their eyes while VA doesn't.
So? There are many that claim the earth is flat. That doesn't actually mean the earth is flat.

It's probably just other obsessives, apparently like you, that read bad IPS claims from a decade ago, and with the power of the placebo effect have convinced themselves that IPS is bad, and now can't look at one...

You are scouring the internet for hearsay, and repeating it over and over, and you do it again in this post.

You have pretty much had the explanation from many in this thread sharing their experience.

Do you think you are going to change our experience with your repetition.
 
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FOSS-I

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Either way, VA is a different panel technology versus IPS. It has unique characteristics, so it may work better for some, and worse for others. If an IPS screen is bothering you, it's worth trying a VA screen. I've read many anecdotes of people doing that and finding eye strain relief. Like the man says, eye strain isn't something you can necessarily notice within the first 15 minutes of using a screen. It's something you notice when repeatedly working on the screen day after day. Some screens are less irritating than others.
 

Snowdog

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Either way, VA is a different panel technology versus IPS. It has unique characteristics, so it may work better for some, and worse for others. If an IPS screen is bothering you, it's worth trying a VA screen. I've read many anecdotes of people doing that and finding eye strain relief. Like the man says, eye strain isn't something you can necessarily notice within the first 15 minutes of using a screen. It's something you notice when repeatedly working on the screen day after day. Some screens are less irritating than others.
Well none of us is having this problem. Are you?
 

XoR_

[H]ard|Gawd
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Either way, VA is a different panel technology versus IPS. It has unique characteristics, so it may work better for some, and worse for others. If an IPS screen is bothering you, it's worth trying a VA screen. I've read many anecdotes of people doing that and finding eye strain relief. Like the man says, eye strain isn't something you can necessarily notice within the first 15 minutes of using a screen. It's something you notice when repeatedly working on the screen day after day. Some screens are less irritating than others.
The issue here is that you are focusing on wrong characteristics...
And focusing in the wrong way in general.

I find it terrifying how ignorant people are when it comes to their own sight.
I often talk with people who are wearing glasses or complaining about worsening eye sight and they never give any thought to how they use eyes, how others do it, what can be improved, etc.
For whatever reason people seem to prefer to rather go blind than think about sight.

It is not surprising then that people will blame monitors and try to find anything else and call it culprit as long as it is not directly related to how they fail in using eyes properly.

At this point I would not be surprised if at least some people were inflicting eye strain on themselves to prove their assumptions...
 

CraigHB

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I have an IPS monitor and it seems fairly comfortable. So I guess if I don't have a complaint about comfort, I should stick with it for better color and image, yeah?

I use a warm color setting and I run the brightness/backlight only as bright as needed. Seems to be working out okay. My back gets me sitting in my office chair before eye strain does. I've had eye strain before though. Setting the brightness/backlight only as high as needed seems to help a lot with that.
 
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ors

Limp Gawd
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I should stick with it for better color and image, yeah?
And don't forget panel response time. Most VAs have very spiky response times on darker content which results in smearing and other artifacts. IPS at least is consistent, so even a slow panel will show much less artifacts. Only few VA screens have acceptable response even today...
 

FOSS-I

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And don't forget panel response time. Most VAs have very spiky response times on darker content which results in smearing and other artifacts. IPS at least is consistent, so even a slow panel will show much less artifacts. Only few VA screens have acceptable response even today...
For desktop usage in a professional work environment, you really expect to be bothered by the limitations of 60Hz VA vs 75Hz IPS?
 

ors

Limp Gawd
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you really expect to be bothered by the limitations of 60Hz VA vs 75Hz IPS?
Not by that, but by smearing images and text when scrolling, yes. And this is happening on my LG 32UD59-B (https://www.dropbox.com/s/hehorwkyoi35ky9/ImageBleedScrolling.MOV?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/xhtn37hfl6e7ixc/Slashdot.orgScrolling.MOV?dl=0), while one can live with it, one can not unsee it. Granted this is unusually bad even for VA, had 2 other VA screens that didn't show it to this extent in desktop use, but am yet to see a VA that has no visible and annoying smearing in games...
 
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FOSS-I

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The video doesn't work for me. I'd like to see what you mean. I wonder if it's psychological that I experience more eye fatigue when I take my screen down to 50Hz.
 
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