V.A.T.S. in VR is Awesome

FrgMstr

Just Plain Mean
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Fallout 4 is one of the few desktop games I have played in the last few years all the way through to the finish. And as you likely know, Bethesda is still stoking the game with "free upgrades" to keep folks interested. glixel is reporting that Fallout 4 will be playable from start to finish in VR soon.

We spoke with Howard again this week, who provided a brief update on the project, and it seems his team is on track to achieve what it set out to do. "Fallout is going great. There's a lot of work to be done, but it's super exciting. We are doing the whole game," he assured us. "You can play it start to finish right now, and the whole thing really works in terms of interface and everything."

VR enthusiasts will be glad to know that your Pip-Boy is going to be right there on your wrist working as it should and will be very helpful in keeping control of the gameplay flow.

When we asked him about the challenges of porting a game designed as a "traditional" first person game to a virtual reality environment, he was unphased by the challenges. "I will say that Fallout works because of the interface," he explained. "The Pip-Boy is on your wrist and we've been able to present so that it works the way you expect. You look and there it is. The fact that the gunplay is a bit slower than in a lot of games has certainly helped us but we have V.A.T.S., so you can pause or slow down the world," he says, describing the Vault-Tec Assisted Targeting System that allows you to freeze real time combat and target specific areas of enemies before unfreezing the action and watching it play out. "I assure you, V.A.T.S. in VR is awesome. We love it."

I am surely up to give Fallout 4 another go in VR. Can't wait. Will it be the first Triple A title to make it to the HMD?
 
If it has the same amazing optimisation as the original fallout 4, I'd just avoid it. Since a small hiccup in framerate can make people puke while using VR, the random fps drops of fo4 will leave many lying on the floor in a puddle... I love fo4, but it's really quite bad when it comes to performance.
 
If it has the same amazing optimisation as the original fallout 4, I'd just avoid it. Since a small hiccup in framerate can make people puke while using VR, the random fps drops of fo4 will leave many lying on the floor in a puddle... I love fo4, but it's really quite bad when it comes to performance.
I would suggest that given your ill-informed comments, that you do not have a Vive or Oculus.
 
If it has the same amazing optimisation as the original fallout 4, I'd just avoid it. Since a small hiccup in framerate can make people puke while using VR, the random fps drops of fo4 will leave many lying on the floor in a puddle... I love fo4, but it's really quite bad when it comes to performance.

FO4 runs great on my system, although I am curious if they will uncap the framerate since Gamebyro doesn't run properly over 60 FPS.
 
If a person is really sensitive to stutter I can see how VR could amplify that and leave someone feeling a bit nauseous in games with frame-pacing issues. Same with inconsistent frame rates in general.
Yes, I would agree. But here is a person just telling people to avoid it that has no real world experience with the title in VR. Fake news.
 
I've been playing Fallout 4 for about 3 weeks and I really enjoy the game but I recently found out something a little disturbing. I picked the girl as a character because I would rather look at a pretty girl than a guy and I almost picked the oriental girl (because asian chicks are hot) but I stayed with the default girl because she was the cutest. Last week my aunt visited my mom so I went by to see them and I found out my second cousin is a model and does television commercials and my second cousin is the Fallout girl... Moi, the lecherous old man, has been staring at the ass of my second cousin for the last 3 weeks...
 
I cannot wait for FO4 in VR. The game runs great (70/100FPS) at 3440x1440 with mods so it should run perfect on the Vive. Only thing I am curious about is how they will do the player movement.

It seems that people don't understand VR is in its infancy and needs a beast of a machine/card to run it properly. I think many of the people having poor experiences or getting nauseated aren't running high end cards or are using a "Premium VR experience" card. I went from the 980TI to the 1080 and found a rather good leap in performance. If you want to run a $800 HMD then you should expect to need a high end card like the 1080.

Maybe in 3-4 years you can use a mid-range but for now top tier are a must IMO.
 
Wasn't FO4-VR more like a rail-shooter?


Not that I can run FO4 to play it at all... because it refuses to stop crashing. *mumbles*

@Crackmonkey: This is inherit problem with VR currently. The cost of entering is high. Too high for most people. You've got to figure in the hardware.

I have a feeling it'll become like games are now. You can use a mid-range card to run games (VR). But don't expect to run the latest games with the highest eye candy and expect good performance. We'll always be pushed harder to upgrade our video cards from 2-3 years out to upgrading every year.
 
Wasn't FO4-VR more like a rail-shooter?


Not that I can run FO4 to play it at all... because it refuses to stop crashing. *mumbles*

@Crackmonkey: This is inherit problem with VR currently. The cost of entering is high. Too high for most people. You've got to figure in the hardware.

One of the demo's was rail-based until the devs put in teleportation. Teleporting is aimed to keep any motion sickness down but the latest updates are pointing to full movement as well.

I personally don't like teleportation to get around in an FPS and would like to see full movement controls. I also hope they make it possible to play standing or seated like Arma 3.

You are right with VR being expensive but it is that way with most new gaming tech. 4k monitors, ultrawide monitors, and surround gaming were all expensive when launched and required substantial hardware. Over time the cost and hardware requirements have dropped. Same will happen with VR.
 
One of the demo's was rail-based until the devs put in teleportation. Teleporting is aimed to keep any motion sickness down but the latest updates are pointing to full movement as well.

I personally don't like teleportation to get around in an FPS and would like to see full movement controls. I also hope they make it possible to play standing or seated like Arma 3.

You are right with VR being expensive but it is that way with most new gaming tech. 4k monitors, ultrawide monitors, and surround gaming were all expensive when launched and required substantial hardware. Over time the cost and hardware requirements have dropped. Same will happen with VR.

I'm hoping that it's like Arma3. I've never had experience with it, but playing seated would be more preferable than standing and having to move around. I don't have the space for that. It would be fantastic if you could use a controller. I've read that you can't use controllers or keyboard and mice.

Yeah, spending money on VR tech is something that just with being a visitor of [H]. But I'm sure that we're the niché on the internet. We either void warranties, shell out lots of cash, or you shell out lots of cash while voiding warranties. Surround Gaming, as it sounds cool, just sticks in the real world. Hub problems plague it. If video games could do these things, I think we could really squeeze the most performance out of everything we have:

1. Game on more than 1 core.
2. Use more than 1 GPU split down the middle.

I'm not a programmer so I couldn't even guess at why it's not possible yet.
 
I have to say I bought Fo4 for £15 in October. I have now played 440 hours! I still have Far Harbour and Nukaworld to go. Best £15 worth of entertainment I've paid in ages.

Now if you'll excuse me I have some gorillas to catch!
 
My point was more towards how there are quite often performance (and quite a lot of general) issues with Bethesda titles and how VR is sensitive to framerate and framepacing. The fact that the original pretty much had to be locked to 60fps to make sure the physics don't go all wonky makes me even more concerned about it. Sure, they may be able to rewrite/fix the issues, but Bethesda seems to need modders to fix their games (see "Skyrim Enhanced eidition" with all the bugs of the original). I should have been more clear.
I am fairly sure that Bethesda is aware of the issues surrounding VR framerates that are needed.
 
If a person is really sensitive to stutter I can see how VR could amplify that and leave someone feeling a bit nauseous in games with frame-pacing issues. Same with inconsistent frame rates in general.
I doubt a little stutter here and there will make someone instantly puke. Nausea after some use I can see. If that's the case VR is not for you anyway.
 
I doubt a little stutter here and their will make someone instantly puke. Nausea after some I can see.
I know people who were nauseous after playing a demo where you walk around a house in less than a minute. I know someone who can't watch people play FPS games on a TV - they get sick. I got a headache when I had to play Asetto Corsa at ~30-40fps. It depends on the person, depends on the game - everyone has different sensitivity levels.
 
My point was more towards how there are quite often performance (and quite a lot of general) issues with Bethesda titles and how VR is sensitive to framerate and framepacing. The fact that the original pretty much had to be locked to 60fps to make sure the physics don't go all wonky makes me even more concerned about it. Sure, they may be able to rewrite/fix the issues, but Bethesda seems to need modders to fix their games (see "Skyrim Enhanced eidition" with all the bugs of the original). I should have been more clear.

At least they're trying. Imperfect FO4-VR > No FO4-VR. I'd rather have the option available even if it does end up requiring better hardware to avoid frame dips.

The original game is already long shipped so they didn't even have to bother with a VR version - it's certainly not going to lead to a sales boom. We're lucky a big publisher is even taking the time and that someone high enough up made it a passion project.

We can't on one hand complain that "VR sucks cuz no AAA's", then nitpick when a publisher tries to bring VR to an AAA.

Not to mention, if they can work out the VR kinks with FO4, then the next Elder Scrolls could have it from day one.
 
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This is pretty awesome.

Stuff like this is what it's going to take to get me to buy VR hardware. Major titles that interest me with support.

Now we just have to get to the point where they support it at launch.
 
This is pretty awesome.

Stuff like this is what it's going to take to get me to buy VR hardware. Major titles that interest me with support.

Now we just have to get to the point where they support it at launch.

Still waiting on MS to get us Minesweeper and Solitaire in VR.
 
I know people who were nauseous after playing a demo where you walk around a house in less than a minute. I know someone who can't watch people play FPS games on a TV - they get sick. I got a headache when I had to play Asetto Corsa at ~30-40fps. It depends on the person, depends on the game - everyone has different sensitivity levels.

Are these people you know 6 year old girls not yet out of petticoats?

When frame rates drop at best it's slightly annoying, at worst it's disorienting. The whole nausea thing is way overblown. I've had a Vive for ages, and friends of all ages and gaming ability round to have a go. Not a single person I've met has vommed. Some people fall over and a few get a bit starry eyed, all of them were impressed/amazed.
 
Are these people you know 6 year old girls not yet out of petticoats?

When frame rates drop at best it's slightly annoying, at worst it's disorienting. The whole nausea thing is way overblown. I've had a Vive for ages, and friends of all ages and gaming ability round to have a go. Not a single person I've met has vommed. Some people fall over and a few get a bit starry eyed, all of them were impressed/amazed.

Damn man, you are really trying to defend VR hard, eh? Dude, different people have different levels of sensitivity to these sort of things. Are you saying that people do not get majorly motion sick when flying or because of motion blur in games? Yes, folks get motion sick. How about you go hop in an F16 and tell me how that works for you. (Or even an F16 in just VR.)

Edit: The only thing that interests me in VR is flight simming and I know I would get motion sick so, no thanks. :D :sick::vomit:
 
I may have dramatised a bit.
But, I had borrowed my friend's oculus to play around and I found it quite distracting when the framerate changed. Especially if there was a tiny stutter here or there. It was some time ago - maybe things are better now, but, as far as i know from reading things around the web, it is still very important yo have a steady framerate. Fo4, for me, does not give a steady framerate, especially in the city. My PC isn't beastly, but it should be enough for that game. I do want to buy a vive and am trying to follow vr news, it's a bit weird that I am uninformed, then.

I can kinda see what you are saying, i find project cars with my oculus completely unacceptable and its a game i really want to play. it looks sooo good on my 2560x1080 29" monitor. However, my AMD r9 390, rx480, or AMD Fury just cant handle it in VR. I havent played fall out 4, but i have a good feeling it will be more enjoyable then project cars at least on AMD cards.
 
Can I get Xcom 2 with VR support? I'd be in like Flynn (although still have to convince the wife that somehow VR will help my kids get to college and back...)
 
Damn man, you are really trying to defend VR hard, eh? Dude, different people have different levels of sensitivity to these sort of things. Are you saying that people do not get majorly motion sick when flying or because of motion blur in games? Yes, folks get motion sick. How about you go hop in an F16 and tell me how that works for you. (Or even an F16 in just VR.)

Edit: The only thing that interests me in VR is flight simming and I know I would get motion sick so, no thanks. :D :sick::vomit:
It could also be that his hardware in incapable of driving it fully.(or others)
If you want VR to run at it's best, IMO, you want a 980ti/1070 or higher.
 
I personally don't like teleportation to get around in an FPS and would like to see full movement controls. I also hope they make it possible to play standing or seated like Arma 3.

You should try the demo of Astral Domine, it has the closest thing I have found to a traditional WASD FPS movement system (hopefully it gets copied in other games)

You just hold the left trigger and tilt the left controller in the direction you want to go (movement speed is proportional to the amount of tilt from vertical). The sensation is a bit like standing (or sitting) on an invisible flying carpet floating just above the ground. It may cause motion sickness for some people, but an experienced FPS player shouldn't have any problem with it.
 
It could also be that his hardware in incapable of driving it fully.(or others)
If you want VR to run at it's best, IMO, you want a 980ti/1070 or higher.

This is my system and I still get some missing frames, but its still perfectly playable.

Neither the CPU or GPU are officially VR approved, I was just trying to be cheap (and reuse my existing socket AM3 MB).

The Vive probably cost more than the whole PC (which is a hard price to pin down, as my computer is an ever-evolving thing with some parts, like the case and keyboard, being more than 2 decades old)

A faster CPU with less cores would probably work better

SteamVR Test.jpg
 
Are these people you know 6 year old girls not yet out of petticoats?

When frame rates drop at best it's slightly annoying, at worst it's disorienting. The whole nausea thing is way overblown. I've had a Vive for ages, and friends of all ages and gaming ability round to have a go. Not a single person I've met has vommed. Some people fall over and a few get a bit starry eyed, all of them were impressed/amazed.
No need to get so aggressive. I didn't say they vomit. I said they get nauseous - dizzy. And no, they are not children. The person who can't play VR for any time is my fiancee, 26yo. She games quite a bit, but much less than I do. The person who can't even watch people play fps on tv is 24, my friend's gf. I ran the oculus on a 3570k and a 980ti (and recently with a 5820k and a 980ti).
This is the same issue as people getting dizzy in cars - I don't get it, others do.
I'm not saying I don't want fo4 in VR - of course it's better to have the option than not, especially for a triple A game. I'm sorry for being sceptical about a company that's hyping up an upcoming release, even though they are used to shipping games that need modders to make them work correctly. It seems any other opinion than "omg this is awesome" is a wrong one and taking things with a grain of salt is out of the question.
 
Damn man, you are really trying to defend VR hard, eh? Dude, different people have different levels of sensitivity to these sort of things. Are you saying that people do not get majorly motion sick when flying or because of motion blur in games? Yes, folks get motion sick. How about you go hop in an F16 and tell me how that works for you. (Or even an F16 in just VR.)

Edit: The only thing that interests me in VR is flight simming and I know I would get motion sick so, no thanks. :D :sick::vomit:

Are you comparing buzzing around in an F16 pulling massive G's to using a Vive to play stupid fun games in your living room?

Every time VR gets raised a bunch of people start moaning about nausea. You then tend to find these people haven't even tried it, or at least have some kind of negative nay-sayer opinion. I'm sure the odd person probably does get motion sickness, but that odd person that does doesn't really explain the panic that flies around about it. Like I say, I've had dozens of people use mine, including people who do get travel sick, because they told me before they went on it. Nobody has gotten sick or even slightly nauseous.

Honestly, you people sound like the same types of people that used to say women would faint and mens hearts would explode if they went above 100mph on a speed train. It's like some kind of mass hysteria.
 
Pretty nifty.

But my current biggest VR Dream would be, most likely, SW games, especially Flight sims like XWA
 
I'm a bit concerned that normal gunplay might suffer under VR.
They big up VATs so much that it appears to be their preferred way to play.
I rarely use VATs because I prefer the head on flow of excitement, hopefully this translates well to VR.

ps really stoked this game is coming to VR, this is more like it !!
Woe is my 'real' life.
 
This is my system and I still get some missing frames, but its still perfectly playable.

Neither the CPU or GPU are officially VR approved, I was just trying to be cheap (and reuse my existing socket AM3 MB).

The Vive probably cost more than the whole PC (which is a hard price to pin down, as my computer is an ever-evolving thing with some parts, like the case and keyboard, being more than 2 decades old)

A faster CPU with less cores would probably work better

View attachment 17495
I would try a new GPU.
Yeah, the Rift/Vive are a bit pricey. Luckily my son bought the setup and I just needed to pay for controllers and an extra sensor.
 
If it has the same amazing optimisation as the original fallout 4, I'd just avoid it. Since a small hiccup in framerate can make people puke while using VR, the random fps drops of fo4 will leave many lying on the floor in a puddle... I love fo4, but it's really quite bad when it comes to performance.
Lol. I played last night because of this thread (hadn't played since the flood) and the stutter in Far Harbor was just ridiculous. The game really just doesn't run well at all for the visuals it provides.
 
Lol. I played last night because of this thread (hadn't played since the flood) and the stutter in Far Harbor was just ridiculous. The game really just doesn't run well at all for the visuals it provides.
4GB not good for the UHD pack.
You need a better gfx card.
 
Omg. If this comes out and isn't complete trash I WILL buy a Vive. This one game would be the tipping point.

FYI frame drops and stutters can be aleaveated in Bethesda games with faster memory. I've played 200 hours with the rig in my sig. All capped at 85fps. It will dip down to as low as 60 in the city worst case scenario.
 
I dont have the UHD pack, Nenu. I've read about the faster memory, but I'm not spending the money to upgrade DDR3 on this platform. This game has 2010 level visual fidelity and it shouldn't chug on a Haswell system with a 290. Period.
 
I dont have the UHD pack, Nenu. I've read about the faster memory, but I'm not spending the money to upgrade DDR3 on this platform. This game has 2010 level visual fidelity and it shouldn't chug on a Haswell system with a 290. Period.
Unfortunate.
Did you try disabling crossfire?
 
Are you comparing buzzing around in an F16 pulling massive G's to using a Vive to play stupid fun games in your living room?

Every time VR gets raised a bunch of people start moaning about nausea. You then tend to find these people haven't even tried it, or at least have some kind of negative nay-sayer opinion. I'm sure the odd person probably does get motion sickness, but that odd person that does doesn't really explain the panic that flies around about it. Like I say, I've had dozens of people use mine, including people who do get travel sick, because they told me before they went on it. Nobody has gotten sick or even slightly nauseous.

Honestly, you people sound like the same types of people that used to say women would faint and mens hearts would explode if they went above 100mph on a speed train. It's like some kind of mass hysteria.
The problem is IF you get nauseous it tends to be really bad. I own a vive and for the most part I have been pleasantly surprised at my tolerance to VR motion sickness, but Flight Sim (DCS World) and Race Sim (Project Cars) hit me very hard. I love flight sims but as much as the situational awareness really is amazing with a vive on your head, I can't play it for more than 10-15 minutes if I do anything but fly straight ahead. I get air sick for real and VR makes me feel exactly the same. Similarly with car sims. It's generally fine but as soon as I start doing lots of rapid turns, hills with up and down sections or if I spin out the headset is coming off very quickly. I have tested this even with people who don't get motion sick and for the most part most of them can't tolerate the flight sims for long. I always tell them that they should stop immediately if they start to feel it because VR nausea has one big drawback in that it lasts a real long time if you try to "power through it".

Interestingly though, teleporting which is the default in almost everything VR, is 100% OK no nausea at all for me. Walking type movement (ie onward like) is good too though I'd say more like 95% OK. I have issues with it in some very specific circumstances like if movement is triggered unexpectedly or off from my intended direction or vision is occluded by an object when movement is expected can tend to trigger some slight disorientation and can cause a slight feeling of oncoming nausea if not corrected quickly. Arm swinging (as done in H3VR) is surprisingly 100% good for me when I tried it. Maybe the motion of the arm swinging is fooling my inner ear to negating the onset of nausea, similarly in the onward type movement some relief can be had if you march in place during movement. Only real drawback to it is it can fatigue you if you play long VR sessions. But still a good workout or a horrible sweat creating system depending on your point of view. :)

Either way the point is, VR nausea is very real and if it affects you in the type of game you like then it's a very real problem and there is no real indicator that it will or will not affect you ahead of time till you actually spend a bit of time playing a title you most like. I could say I let lots people try VR and it didn't affect them and that would be true especially if I only let them play something like space pirate trainer or one of the other wave shooters that basically let you only teleport to a spot then shoot things. But I can tell you it's a completely different experience when dealing with fast fluid motion like in a flight sim or race sim. Flight sim has higher chance of causing nausea, while racing sim is more dependent on the type of course. That has been my experience.

Back on topic: I can't wait to try out FO4 in VR :)
 
The problem is IF you get nauseous it tends to be really bad. I own a vive and for the most part I have been pleasantly surprised at my tolerance to VR motion sickness, but Flight Sim (DCS World) and Race Sim (Project Cars) hit me very hard. I love flight sims but as much as the situational awareness really is amazing with a vive on your head, I can't play it for more than 10-15 minutes if I do anything but fly straight ahead. I get air sick for real and VR makes me feel exactly the same. Similarly with car sims. It's generally fine but as soon as I start doing lots of rapid turns, hills with up and down sections or if I spin out the headset is coming off very quickly. I have tested this even with people who don't get motion sick and for the most part most of them can't tolerate the flight sims for long. I always tell them that they should stop immediately if they start to feel it because VR nausea has one big drawback in that it lasts a real long time if you try to "power through it".

Interestingly though, teleporting which is the default in almost everything VR, is 100% OK no nausea at all for me. Walking type movement (ie onward like) is good too though I'd say more like 95% OK. I have issues with it in some very specific circumstances like if movement is triggered unexpectedly or off from my intended direction or vision is occluded by an object when movement is expected can tend to trigger some slight disorientation and can cause a slight feeling of oncoming nausea if not corrected quickly. Arm swinging (as done in H3VR) is surprisingly 100% good for me when I tried it. Maybe the motion of the arm swinging is fooling my inner ear to negating the onset of nausea, similarly in the onward type movement some relief can be had if you march in place during movement. Only real drawback to it is it can fatigue you if you play long VR sessions. But still a good workout or a horrible sweat creating system depending on your point of view. :)

Either way the point is, VR nausea is very real and if it affects you in the type of game you like then it's a very real problem and there is no real indicator that it will or will not affect you ahead of time till you actually spend a bit of time playing a title you most like. I could say I let lots people try VR and it didn't affect them and that would be true especially if I only let them play something like space pirate trainer or one of the other wave shooters that basically let you only teleport to a spot then shoot things. But I can tell you it's a completely different experience when dealing with fast fluid motion like in a flight sim or race sim. Flight sim has higher chance of causing nausea, while racing sim is more dependent on the type of course. That has been my experience.

Back on topic: I can't wait to try out FO4 in VR :)

That makes total sense to me.

Motion is the problem. I get motion sick, even playing an FPS with KB/Mouse, but I was OK playing FO3 from couch with XB controller.

So any breakdown between VR motion and IRL motion would definitely make me sick.

But I would LOVE to play Fallout in VR, but I really can't see how to get around the motion problem with current tech/controls. Roomscale with lots of teleportation seems kind of wonky and tiring for an open world game, and doing fetch quests on a treadmill has ZERO appeal.

I am thinking once wireless VR is common, that using a special swivel chair, you could simply have the game orient your VR presence to your physical body for rotation. So turning won't be an issue. You can even do some side to side strafing by moving your chair side to side. So all that is left is motion for walking/running.

You could have a tilt sensor on the chair. Lean forward and you move forward in the direction you are facing, lean more and move faster. We tend to lean in the direction we walk and lean more when we run, so I think it could be easily adapted to.

Lean back to slow, stop, and even walk backwards.

I think with the proper tracking of turns, the lean forward/back for motion in the direction you are facing could be enough to get locomotion in FPS games without making too many people sick. Needs testing though.

I am sure someone will do this eventually. It could really make full on open world FPS viable, without needing teleportation/large space or a treadmill.
 
Asynchronous reprojection will be a must to get this game working right on the Vive, I have spent a crazy amount of time in this game with 2 full playthroughs and have not seen the big drop in frames some of you have spoken about. The tough thing will be getting the movement right. I don't know how it will go when running around in power armor but I am looking forward to it! I have not had any Motion sickness due to frame rate after the Asynchronous reprojection update. AMD will need to get their act into gear. Interleaved reprojection drops frames when its turning off and on too much and that's what was making people feel sick with asynchronous the only time i have seen dropped frames was when I had a scene change with a loading screen
 
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