UT3 failure is the fault of pcgaming, not epic.

Discussion in 'General Gaming' started by AfterAnn, Feb 14, 2008.

UT3 is AAA?

  1. Yes

    47 vote(s)
    17.3%
  2. No

    225 vote(s)
    82.7%
  1. TomGreen321

    TomGreen321 Gawd

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    They can say whatever the hell they want about pc gaming...Just keep bringing me more Gears of War.
     
  2. BladeVenom

    BladeVenom [H]ardness Supreme

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    The game didn't do much better on the PS3, did they ever complain about the PS3 or Sony.
     
  3. hfk

    hfk Gawd

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    UTIII is rediculously bad CONSIDERING what UT2004 delivers in comparison. You failed as a developer when everything except the graphics (SLIGHTLY) is WORSE in your sequel.
     
  4. knob

    knob Limp Gawd

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    Having logged about 70 hours in UT3, I know there exist many faults in the game... ie the server browser and much less useful menu UI. I liked the music soundtracks in 2k4, and wished they wouldn't have changed that, either. Heck, I listen to the 2k4 soundtrack when I'm driving my car...

    I still love UT3 though - vehicles have much better control. I like the super sharp textures, even if the color vibrance of 2k4 is missing. (I have post-proc effects on 'intense' and think the game looks good. I don't even fault them for leaving out AA...) I think many of the level designs are appropriate and cool. Sandstorm is a cool vctf. Even suspense is cool in its simplicity. I think the announcements sound much better in UT3 than 2k4 (pancake!)

    I do miss the other game types... assault, mainly. So, at lans, we play assault in 2k4 then boot up UT3 for some (v)CTF and DM action (morbias remade, anyone?)

    Epic's biggest mistake was this: there wasn't anything dashingly new (except the bugs... many, i think, at the fault of UAC). Though this was new, and kind of annoying, the AI bots are much more smart now than in 2k4 (i.e., a skilled bot from 2k4 would lose badly to a skilled bot in UT3).

    My $0.02 and to each his own :)
     
  5. relapse808

    relapse808 [H]ard|Gawd

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    The game was a peice of crap. I have always loved unreal tournament since the first one. I even tried to force myself to like UT3 and I cant, its crap. The instagib feels off. The lack of modes compared to 2k4 is just wack. Seriously if you are going to buy this because of fond memories of 2k4 dont waste your money.
     
  6. Sixthsense

    Sixthsense I Suck Fat Ones

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    The problem with twitch shooters is they aren't fun for new players. Give someone who's quite good at modern FPSes a copy of Quake 3 and put them on a random server and they'll get constantly hammered and have no fun. The only failure here is the community.Survey says..


    [​IMG]


    Nearly 3/4 of the most popular pc games played online are some form of SLOW military based shooter, sad isn't it?
     
  7. Injection of <3

    Injection of <3 Gawd

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    Not really true. Good reaction time and aiming skills are just as important in all FPS games. The reason minimalist fps games like Q3 dont get made/played as much anymore is because the trend nowadays is for more "realistic" and complex shooters like CoD4 and others. Newer players tend to jump into newer games, and because there are no new minimalist shooters coming out the only ones left playing them are those who started a long time ago.
     
  8. Blackstone

    Blackstone 2[H]4U

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    UT3 is what I call a confused product. It isn't Battlefield, it isn't Team Fortress, and it isn't Quake 3 or classic UT, but it wants a piece of all that action. It also is a game that really, really, wants to look like Gears of War. But it isn't Gears of War either.

    First of all I don't believe a game can have as many modes as UT3 and be successful. Team Fortress 2 has modes, but really, it has a few maps that play a little differently. But you get all the modes in the same server browser, so you don't have this fragmentation. They want you to mix it up. With UT3 you have to make this comitment as to what mode you are playing and more importantly what mode your server is hosting. So you get this fragmentation of the player base. Nobody really knows where to throw themselves.

    UT3 is actually pretty solid with respect to gameplay. My biggest complaint about it is that NOBODY plays it online, so basically it is useless. Seriously, there is almost never anyone playing CTF and it is the best mode in the game.

    Also, and I think people overlook this aspect, the stock maps are absolutely terrible looking and playing. They don't have any retro UT charm whatsoever. Get on a good custom map server, with some people actually playing, and some remakes of classic maps, and this game is better than the original UT ever was. When you get on a map that is styled more like old school UT, the game really pops visually. I think this is a game that really depends heavily on mod and custom map support and the community just is not there.

    Another thing is that the one thing you can't complain about is dumbing down with respect to actual gameplay. You need ninja PC shooter skills to be good at this game and even though I can't do it consistently, I can once in a while really tear it up in this game. This game requires you to blast your way into the flag room, take out 2 or 3 defenders and then shoot your way back to your home base, and most normal human beings do not have those types of skills with a mouse and keyboard. If anything they overestimated the skill level of the average gamer, or utterly disregarded it. This game is a challenge...that nobody plays.

    Team Fortress is a much better game overall, and it does a much better job of forcing teamwork, but UT3 is a great game if you want to feel like a one man army for a few minutes at a time.

    But of course, again, NOBODY PLAYS IT!

    Developers these days really don't understand their core fanbase as well as they THINK. They don't understand the nostalgia associated with things like maps, visual style, game music, ect. When they reinvented UT3 with this gritty Gears of War style they blew it for me, but some of the custom indoor maps look really, really good.
     
  9. Obi_Kwiet

    Obi_Kwiet 2[H]4U

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    The thing is, it would have taken very little to make it successful on both console and PC. The Beta testers outlined exactly what needed to be done, and all of the requests were very reasonable. Epic basically said screw you, and proceeded to ignore them, and, of course, the game sucked.
     
  10. Ripskin

    Ripskin 2[H]4U

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    I remember when I first started playing UT99 online, loved every second of my 300+ dial up ping, being new to the game I sucked compaired to the people nailing shock combo's from across the map on facing worlds but this weird thing happened as I played.

    I got better, I learned that running in a straight line is stupid, that those little purrple balls flying at me can be shot by me as well....and it was fun. Using the excuse that a game that requires skill is no fun for new peopls is stupid, we couldnt play any game as each one requires some skill to do anything in.

    I looked forward to UT3 until I played the demo, it was very pretty, ran very well but was boring, dumbed down and felt "rushed" or cheap to me. I wouldnt buy it for a dollar, not while UT99 is still on my HD and still gets played because its fun, delivers the gameplay. UT2k4 was very fun and wonderful, if you compair how good it was (skip 2k3 since it wasnt much IMO) overall 2k4 was a great jump ahead from UT99, and UT3 delivered nothing other than eye candy IMO.

    TF2 delivers the gameplay that makes it fun, I loved TFC and played it relentlessly, played FF (tfc source but better) and since its the same style got bored quickly. Yeah anyone can jump in and play and be usefull, but there is so much in it that requires skill it gives advantages to the good players and allows new players a small learning curve.

    I wouldnt waste hard drive space for UT3 if you gave me a copy for free.
     
  11. j0j081

    j0j081 Gawd

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    I agree with a lot of the constructive thoughts in this thread but for all of you posting two liners about how much UT3 sucks you also say you barely played the game. Things have improved dramatically with the first two patches. Even if you played the game on and off for a month that wasn't really long enough to give it a fair assessment given the horrible state it was released in. My bet is Epic just wanted to rush it for the holiday season after already having several delays.

    The core gameplay in UT3 is great. A lot of the people who thought UT2K4 was inferior to the original find UT3 a fresh restart. There are more people playing UT3 than you might realize but most of the decent people aren't playing in pubs, they are finding private matches over irc. Regardless of how few people play the DM numbers at least are slowly increasing and all you really need is one good server to have fun.

    Over at the Epic forums hundreds of people report having trouble playing the game but then they are attempting to do so with 3 year old hardware so no wonder they end up going back to UT2K4. Also, the UT series in general isn't very noob friendly so to speak. If you've never played this type of game before you won't be able to do much in an average dm server which is probably another reason people only give it a short amount of time. Other games like COD4 you can be pretty decent after a couple of weeks.
     
  12. number69

    number69 [H]ard|Gawd

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    There are a few good CTF servers but not that many...there's enough for me personally to save as favorites and enjoy it online. As for the custom map community I think i've downloaded about 12-15 really good custom maps to date..all from the UT forum. So the custom mapping community isn't what it was but it's not horrible. In fact the custom maps that I did download extended my interest in the game.

    Also the gameplay is solid as others have mentioned, I think UT3 is suffering from the same problem Vista was suffering from for a while...people ragging on it, people read all the ragging and decide not to give the game a shot. There are legit beefs like the UI but I got over that since I look at it for all of twenty seconds before I join a match.
     
  13. lopoetve

    lopoetve Imhotep

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    I've played it post last patch, multi and single.

    Compared to every other FPS out there released recently, it's subpar in almost every way, still. The interface is horrible, the gameplay is stilted towards weapons over reacting and manouvering. graphics are mediocre. The maps are boring, trite, and uninteresting with a few small exceptions, and the gameplay is just bland. There's no reason to play it with TF2 and /or COD4 out. Or even UT2k4.

    This is why sales have been slow. The game is nothing new - we've all seen it before, adn done better, by the same company.
     
  14. Sixthsense

    Sixthsense I Suck Fat Ones

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    The one complaint I never understood was the GUI/ interface whining. This is a minor issue and there were alot of other games that had more significant issues such as EA's Battlefield 2 (no widescreen support). The GUI/interface complaints is nitpicking in my eyes. What cannot be done in the interface can be accomplished in the ini. The default maps concern is debatable, as stated earlier there are numerous custom maps out. They even re-made the majority of UT2k4's maps with the UT3 engine. I believe someome even made a remake of Q3's Longest Yard.

    All games require some form of skill, although the skill and mindset for twitch shooters is entirely different .

    Agree with some of the points made by Blackstone

    I believe this will be perhaps the last twitch shooter we will see for quite sometime


    True to some extent, it's just easier to lead and aim when your target's movement is considerably slower.
     
  15. Leepox

    Leepox Limp Gawd

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    Easier to aim but by no means an easier game.

    I love UT because its a run and shoot game basically. Fast paced but sometimes i do prefer to play a slower game like CS where timing is very important

    I wonder what UT4 would be like... plus i cannot imagine why they designed a twitch game for a console. Analogs are the worst way to aim a gun (although im pretty good at it mind you lol)

    But im sure epic are still scratching their heads trying to make all sorts of excuses. What i think the problem really is that they should built the core of the game around the PC and NOT the console. It should be a PC port rather than the other way around, after all, this is where it all started
     
  16. Krenum

    Krenum [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Wrong. UT , UT2K3 and 4 were innovative and good games. Epic just didn't care and decided to create a pile of shit and call it "UT3". They prayed on the good judgment of the people knowing that they would buy whatever they put out. I for one am glad I didn't buy it and I will never purchase another Epic game.
     
  17. Silus

    Silus [H]ardness Supreme

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    Which is exactly why the expression "EPIC FAIL" applies so well in this case.

    And their comments about how PCs are not good for gaming and that they are focusing their development almost exclusively on consoles, while being part of the PC Gaming Alliance, is really nothing short of an EPIC FAIL of insane proportions.
     
  18. JaYp146

    JaYp146 [H]ardness Supreme

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    It's a good multiplayer game that debuted at the same time as a bunch of better multiplayer games. Had it been released prior to TF2 and COD4 (think months in advance), I think the PC and console gaming community would likely have embraced it a bit more.
     
  19. Replicant1911

    Replicant1911 Gawd

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    I hate it when developers blame some scapegoat (in this case, the pc platform) for their inability to put out a good product.
     
  20. Mohonri

    Mohonri [H]ardness Supreme

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    It would seem I'm a bit odd around here, as I enjoyed both UT99 and UT2004, but didn't like UT3. And I think this is UT3's problem: its biggest competition is UT2004. Epic did a good job of recognizing some of the failures in UT2004. The hoverboard helps when you're on a big map with not enough vehicles--no more hiking across the map, or trying to cram three people on top of a Scorpion. Merging the lightning gun and sniper rifle. Bringing back the Enforcer.

    However, while they fixed a few old, minor issues, they introduced big new ones.

    First of all, I'm a bigger fan of Assault and Onslaught than I am of DM. While the elimination of Assault bothered me, I was willing to give the new Warfare a try...until it became clear that Epic decided to exclude Warfare from the demo. The inclusion of Assault and Onslaught in the 2004 demo is what sold me the game. The UT3 demo, on the other hand, had...DM, CTF, Team DM, vCTF...and the maps included were, for me, uninspiring.

    The gameplay mechanics themselves weren't bad; in fact, they were pretty enjoyable. However, in order for Epic to get me to part with my hard-earned cash, the game has to offer more than my tried-and-true UT2004. No, wait, let me rephrase: the demo for the game has to convince me that the game has more to offer than UT2004.

    For me, that's exactly what the demo didn't do.
     
  21. TomGreen321

    TomGreen321 Gawd

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    Like Cod4, it almost seems like it was made for the consoles, and just realeased on the pc as not to piss off pc gamers. If it failed, blame the pc platform so the next games they already have a "reason" only to release for consoles. Hell they openly admitted Ue4 is being designed mainly for consoles.

    I think they need new PR peple.
     
  22. Proxy

    Proxy Pumpkin Ghost

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    Doom 3, UT3, and Crysis just to name a few CoD3. Some developers will never learn that pretty graphics won't make up for bad game play.:rolleyes:
     
  23. j0j081

    j0j081 Gawd

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    YEAH! Most people have said UT3 gameplay is fine. It is everything else that is broken.
     
  24. zero002021

    zero002021 [H]ard|Gawd

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    The main problem with UT3 is the lack of creativity/originality that Epic has been known for. Many of the maps in UT3 are severely lacking and seem uninspired compared to the maps in UT and UT2K4. Not only are the maps lacking, but there aren't enough of them. I understand that the level of graphical detail may have prevented Epic from shipping the game with the same number of maps as in previous UT games, but they aren't nearly enough, and they aren't anywhere near as good as maps in previous UT games.

    The other big problem? The lack of game modes. Seriously, what the fuck happened? Where are all the game modes that were featured in UT2K4? Nobody wanted Epic to merge Assault and Onslaught into one game mode. They should have kept them separate, and brought back all the other classic game modes that were cut.

    I'm not crapping on UT3 just because everyone else is doing it. Heck, the original Unreal Tourmament is the game that got me into PC gaming in the first place, and I consider it my favorite game of all time. It's disappointing to see what has become of the UT series after being a fan since day one.

    I will admit that for as much as Epic got wrong, they got a few things right. The core of the gameplay is still very much Unreal Tournament, and if you can overlook the games flaws (poor map design and selection, lack of game modes), it's still the same fun game it's always been. The inclusion of the hoverboard is also a great idea and one that I hope they will carry on when they make the next UT game. Yes, I'm still looking forward to the next game in the series. Why? Everyone makes mistakes, and hopefully Epic will learn from the mistakes they have made with UT3 and deliver a game that is a worthy successor the next time around.

    It seems to me that the majority of people disappointed with UT3 have been complaining about it being more of the same. They say the game features nothing new or original. That's not the problem. I would have been more than happy with "more of the same". In fact, that's really all I was expecting, more of the same with better graphics. Instead of getting UT/UT2K4 with better graphics, we were given a stripped down version of UT with a visual style that belongs in Gears of War and has no purpose in a UT game. With UT3, Epic has delivered a game that is "less of more of the same".
     
  25. Conker

    Conker 2[H]4U

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    thats for sure ;)

    Forget epic though, without us all their games will fail. We are the core reason they are here today in this world of ours. Whos gonna give a crap after they just release a console game probably all watered down and child like controls with autoaim to the max. Epic was screwed up by microsoft and sony i think since they were giving them cash advances on ut3 on the consoles. I bet they were paid to do this to the pc also. Forget them then. We have better games to play with anyways than a 3 servers in ut3. The ut3 engine sucks anyways compared to some of the other engines out there anyways. It was good at its prime in a tech demo 4 years ago but now its just average.
     
  26. Blazestorm

    Blazestorm [H]ardness Supreme

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    UT3 simply offers nothing over UT2004 but better graphics, and that's sorta meh too...

    It felt like a Gears of War mod for UT2004 with an updated engine... For some reason Epic got this great idea that GoW did good on the console, it must have been because of how the game looked! RIUGHTZ?

    UT2004 Demo had me hooked, I played Torlan so many times because of that Demo... It was an awesome map, awesome game-mode, and a shit-ton of fun. UT3 Demo was... meh... it didn't make me wanna buy the game...
     
  27. Nomjr1

    Nomjr1 [H]Lite

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    UT99 was the UT to play. It has never been as intense and seemed to have it all just right in the original. RIP UT :(
     
  28. sculelos

    sculelos [H]ardness Supreme

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    I tried playing it and really couldn't get the feel for it either. Unreal Tournament 2004 was a much better game at least judging by the demo.
     
  29. jamsblast

    jamsblast [H]Lite

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    x2... ut2004>>>ut3
     
  30. Gorankar

    Gorankar [H]ardForum Junkie

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    The funniest part of it is that the game made money. While not a wild success financially, it was not a failure. This time around Epic can not depend on the mod community to support their game as they did with UT99 and 2k4.

    The mod community, the community in general, is what keeps copies of your games selling month and even years after release. Epic has forgotten that. Anyone that focuses on the consoles will quickly find out that long term sales of their games is unlikely at best. As a general rule, it is here and then forgotten a few months later. Everyone is waiting on your next release, unless your game sucked. In which case you are forgotten period.

    In my honest opinion, Q3, and the UT series were only the long term successes that they were because of the mod community. Something the console still does not properly offer. "PS3 can use the pc mods" Oh, yeah, what a joke that is. PC mods/maps have to be watered down to work within the PS3's mem and processing budget. How wonderful. :rolleyes:
     
  31. Blackstone

    Blackstone 2[H]4U

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    You know, thinking about this issue again, I don't think UT3 is an indicator that PC gaming is in trouble. If you look at a game like Gears of War for Windows, it may be a little buggy but it is a really solid port of a really solid game, they did implement DX10 and anti-aliasing, additional content that you can't get on console, and one of the best online multiplayer co-op modes that I have ever seen. I mean I have actually never played Gears of War without some completely random person joining me online. And the game itself is just a blast. Really fun voice acting and gameplay. It looks fantastic too, runs great, ect. If Gears II was just more of the same I would not be disappointed.

    So it isn't like the games that are worth playing are languishing on PC. Call of Duty 4, Battlefield 2, Gears of War, Blizzard's games, and Orange Box all sold well and enjoy a thriving online community. There is certainly no shortage of TF2 and Call of Duty servers. 2007 was pretty cutthroat. The games that are worth playing are getting played. Show me a game that is really, really good that nobody is buying.

    Also, look at Supreme Commander: Forged Alliance. That game has absolutely BRUTAL system requirements and as far as learning curve goes, it is about as hard as it gets in my view. This game is like two or three years ahead of its time. People are playing that game online 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, all over the world. I have never not been able to find an 8 player game. If a game like that can thrive, we are in ok shape.

    The fact of the matter is that interest in the Unreal franchise has always been a bit soft--UT2004 was lauded by critics but the online community for that game died out very fast. It gets a lot of attention in enthusiast circles because a lot of us have a sentimental attachment to the original Unreal and Unreal Tournament games which were totally awesome in their day (10 years ago?). A lot of the core fan base for that series is like pushing 30 years old and probably just does not have the time and money for Unreal in addition to everything else out there. But it was always a game that appealed to only the most hardcore gamers--everyone else was playing counterstrike and team fortress. I knew people in college who would play counterstrike but I couldn't even get them to look at unreal, just because of its sci-fi theme.

    There are games that I think you can use a indicators. If we NEVER get Grand Theft Auto 4 I would then be a little worried--because I'd like to see the PC as a high-end alternative to the XBOX/ PS3. Until that happens I say chill.
     
  32. ellover009

    ellover009 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Pc gaming is nowhere near dead, just look at the versions of GTA for the PC, they had mods that extended the life of those games and it also gave some ideas for the newest version.

    1) I find that part of the problem with the UT series is that if you play one you played them all.
    2) Most ppl that used to mod for the original UT's have a more limited schedule, aka college or real life is kicking in.
    3) This game was designed console oriented, just look at the menus, not as pleasant to use.
    4) Steep requirements when it came out, altho most ppl should have pc's able to handle it by now, I know my could run it.
    5) It's a bit harder to tell bots from real ppl since back in the day you would see 0 pin or bot somewhere when you checked the score. I creamed some opponents last night I can guess they were either noobs or bots since they were non responsive.
     
  33. Wildace

    Wildace [H]ardness Supreme

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    ut failed for me after the first one, from then on it was RTCW, SOF2, BF1942, BFV, BF2, and now im waiting for the next big thing
     
  34. WITHTEETH

    WITHTEETH Limp Gawd

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    I was all hyped about UT3... until i played it. It lacked the pazzaz it had in 2K4 i believe. Not as fast and the emphasis is on close range weapons instead of a lightening gun. The sniper rifle is just like any other game, nothing unreal about it. The Shock Rifle feels sluggish. Im not a spammer, im a scanner.
     
  35. Baker

    Baker 2[H]4U

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    I liked UT3.... theres just to many other great games out at the same time.
     
  36. Darundal

    Darundal Limp Gawd

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    Well, one of the most glaring issues I haven't seen mentioned is the fact that they made making certain types of custom content more difficult than with the previous versions. It seems like every patch they add more fixes to make the game as moddable as the previous versions, which is kind of sad. Also, for some reason, I can never find a UT3 server with a decent ping. I don't have that problem with any other game.
     
  37. spine

    spine 2[H]4U

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    Unreal III is just a simple shallow boring game.

    Unreal Tournament was good in it's day, but it's just too simple these days. It's like taking Pong and doing up all the graphics and music. You're still left with Pong and it's boring. Cod3, BF series all have so much more depth to them hence their popularity. You play one round of UT3 and you've seen it all. Truly Tedious.
     
  38. Big D.

    Big D. Gawd

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    Spine, that's completely false.

    Onslaught was much more complex than what BF1942 and BF2 had. Not-to-mention it had assault and all the basic modes too. (Onslaught had vehicles like BF games but you had to link them in order to advance and destroy the enemy core/base. BF2142 copied UT's Assault mode too btw.)

    Warfare is exactly Onslaught...I don't know why they changed the name since it's the same mode but with some extra (and very cool) vehicles, a ball that can destroy a node instantly and a hoverboard. Oh and lots of glowing arrows and messages to make sure you always know what you're supposed to do. (lack of this made UT2004 seem too complicated for a lot of people)

    Anyway the main problem is they released a shit demo. The UT2004 DEMO is still played TODAY just because it had ONE Onslaught map. Take a hint, Epic. How they didn't think to add a Warfare map is just unbelievable.

    People tried the demo, it looked and played great, but once they saw the Deathmatch, there was nothing left. Everything else is Deathmatch with teams, Deathmatch alone or Deathmatch with a flag. The Warfare mode would have gotten them tons of sales, but they blew it.
     
  39. pigpen

    pigpen 2[H]4U

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    To put it bluntly, UT3 is a shit game. That's why it didn't do well. The developers are high on ego if they truly believe otherwise.
     
  40. Godmachine

    Godmachine [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Apr 7, 2003
    UT3 is the most disappointing Unreal Tournament period. They took out one of the best gameplay types (assualt) and basicly butchered the game down. It runs like crap, the hoverboard idea was dumb as well considering one shot made you a sitting duck for about 3-4 seconds (which in MP is a death sentence).

    UT3 is ALL Epic's own failure.. CliffyB ( I refuse to call him by anything else since he is the idiot that came up with this moronic cut of his own name which he has now decided to recant) has done nothing but condem PC gaming since UT3 failed period. He has gone on record stating that he thinks PC gaming is dieing and that consoles are the future product. Ya .. its dieing alright , Sins Of Solar Empire just sold a crap ton of copies , Age of Conan is the fastest selling PC game of all time now I believe (dont quote me on that) outselling GTA4 in europe this past week (a CONSOLE title).

    I'm so sick of developers turning against PC gamers the moment there game doesnt sell well ( 90 precent of the time because it sucks ) cause of the following excuses :

    1.Piracy
    2.People dont play PC games anymore.
    3.People cant run the game cause of the extensive hardware requirements.
    4.Did I mention Piracy?

    Just keep something on the brain , the most successful game of all time right now is a PC GAME developers (WoW if you live under a rock) raking in nearly a Billion dollars in subscription collection alone in a year.. that doesnt count any other earnings from this franchise alone.