:blink: :blink: Ok, it's pretty clear you don't understand any of this and because of that an intelligent discussion would be impossible. Have a nice life.
![[H]ard|Forum](/styles/hardforum/xenforo/logo_dark.png){kind=logo}
Using Facebook to Find Female Draft Dodgers
- Thread starter HardOCP News
- Start date
Runningflame570
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2008
- Messages
- 493
I'm not sure that I agree with gaspah, but I will say that Israel is way more messed up than most are willing to admit.
There is no such thing as a secular marriage in the country, they routinely inflict disproportionate death and destruction on Palestinians and are more often than not the ones to break a ceasefire, their policy on settlements is disapproved of by just about everyone in the world except for them, and their policy of strip and cavity searching children is definitely one of the more repugnant things I've heard of before.
The above is a small sampling, unfortunately.
But as far as this particular method of catching people trying to dodge military service goes, I see no problem with it. What I see a problem with is the idea that only a certain class of a certain religious category is exempt from service.
There is no such thing as a secular marriage in the country, they routinely inflict disproportionate death and destruction on Palestinians and are more often than not the ones to break a ceasefire, their policy on settlements is disapproved of by just about everyone in the world except for them, and their policy of strip and cavity searching children is definitely one of the more repugnant things I've heard of before.
The above is a small sampling, unfortunately.
But as far as this particular method of catching people trying to dodge military service goes, I see no problem with it. What I see a problem with is the idea that only a certain class of a certain religious category is exempt from service.
We actually have something like that here. If you serve in active duty for two years, the Army will provided you with financial assistance for college.
I'm not sure how it is with the other branches and don't know any of the specifics, but when I was applying for schools, the counselors mentioned that was an option.
Good to see that you're strong in your opinions and not at all duped by political propaganda spread to prevent disillusion of the american people's support for the united states' economic and military stronghold in the region.
israel is a racist nation it surpasses that displayed by japan and other nations of extreme provincial demographics. if you're an ancestral inhabitant of the land now politically defined as israel you don't even have the right to visit land that was owned by many successive generations of your family until the world's superpowers stole the land and gave it to the jewish people. however if you are of jewish decent from anywhere in the world with no traditional ties with israel you are given land by the government. but of course you must be jewish.
imagine china takes control of the world and decides to take away america from the american people, give it to the native americans and force all non-indigenous people into isolated heavily militarized zones then giving away that land to anyone of a similar genetic heritage (eg east asian people decent from the atlas mountains region) including chinese people and not allowing americans to even visit their historic land. now despite american families living on the land for hundreds of years this still isn't equal to the israeli/palestini conflict as the palestini people lived on this land far longer than the americans have lived in america.
now you expect people who aren't observant jews to defend the zionist state state of israel in defence of the religious beliefs of the jews and the economic interests of the americans?
explain justification.
Posted via [H] Mobile Device
larryBird44
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2003
- Messages
- 5,353
I don't see why you have haters gaspah, what you say makes sense to me and I believe it to be true.
Runningflame570
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2008
- Messages
- 493
See, what the person you're quoting is failing to notice by being far too full of his own **** is that I and many others are contributing. We're contributing by repaying debts to the government (with interest) and by advancing our skills to obtain higher paying roles which means more tax revenue each and every year for said government.
By increasing our skills we're also making the nation's workforce more competitive and giving less of an excuse for companies to try to expand the number of work visas granted to foreign workers.
There are far more ways to contribute than by serving in the military directly as a pawn to a global military/economic hegemonic agenda.
some clarifications:
1) ALL of Israel's army is "homeland". there has never been any military incursion into a non-neighboring enemy country.
2) Since it's inception, Israel has been in a constant state of war with Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Jordan (peace @ 1994), Egypt (peace @ 1978).
3) Mandatory service from age 18, excluding Arab-Israelis and ultra-religious orthodox jews (a concession made by Ben-Gurion, the first PM, to a small minority. nowadays this minority has grown dramatically in size, and is a source of great political confllict).
4) Women can declare they are practicing religion and be exempt, while the threshold for Men is set at actually attending a religious Yeshiva school up to age 23, I think.
5) since a simple declaration is sufficient for women, some have abused this loophole. a few have even gone as far as starting a modeling career - surely the sign of a true zealot...
6) as any army, it consists of many non-fighting positions - logistics/medical/transportation/education/instructors/Intelligence etc...
Traditionally, women served in these capacities. However, since the 1980's women have been encouraged to take part in more combat oriented positions - there is now a female infantry battalion, female fighter-jet pilots, female artillery officers, etc..
7) as a nation constantly under threat, deserting from duty - and I do mean it in the literal state, it is a duty to the men, women and children of the state - means endangering them all, and burdening the load on others.
1) ALL of Israel's army is "homeland". there has never been any military incursion into a non-neighboring enemy country.
2) Since it's inception, Israel has been in a constant state of war with Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Jordan (peace @ 1994), Egypt (peace @ 1978).
3) Mandatory service from age 18, excluding Arab-Israelis and ultra-religious orthodox jews (a concession made by Ben-Gurion, the first PM, to a small minority. nowadays this minority has grown dramatically in size, and is a source of great political confllict).
4) Women can declare they are practicing religion and be exempt, while the threshold for Men is set at actually attending a religious Yeshiva school up to age 23, I think.
5) since a simple declaration is sufficient for women, some have abused this loophole. a few have even gone as far as starting a modeling career - surely the sign of a true zealot...
6) as any army, it consists of many non-fighting positions - logistics/medical/transportation/education/instructors/Intelligence etc...
Traditionally, women served in these capacities. However, since the 1980's women have been encouraged to take part in more combat oriented positions - there is now a female infantry battalion, female fighter-jet pilots, female artillery officers, etc..
7) as a nation constantly under threat, deserting from duty - and I do mean it in the literal state, it is a duty to the men, women and children of the state - means endangering them all, and burdening the load on others.
I feel everyone in the world should have to spend a few years in their countries military. Lets face it, there is so many people that take the freedom they have for granted. Someone somewhere has to protect that freedom you enjoy every day. Either it be the military or even your local police force.
That is a consequence of war. you don't suppose an Iroqui can lay claim to
Wall St. just because an ancestor owned land there, do you? because that is what is demanded as the "right of return" by the PLO. the fact that some of them can't even visit is purely a matter of security.
I'm sure you know that this "land" was simply a small part of the Ottoman Empire, conquered by England during WW1. there have always been Jews living there. The region was quite barren and populated sparsely until the very late 19th century. a concentrated effort was made by wealthy jews to buy as much land as possible from the Ottomans, led by the Rothchilds, the Jewish Joint, and more. a population boom in the beginning of the 20th century was derived by immigration, while the English mandate produced caps for Jews (the White books) to keep the Arabs happy and not risk their oil interests. Nevertheless, jews fleeing from a hostile europe entered illegally by ships (some caught and detained in camps on Cyprus). in 1948 the UN has decided on the partition plan, the formation of a state of Israel and a state for Arabs. The Arab population, led by Husseini, refused, and launched an attack aided by Jordan, Syria, Egypt, etc. Israel won.
Israel is defined by the UN resolution as a home for the Jewish people. as a result, any Jew is intrinsically tied to it by international law. Immigration laws give a full citizen status to any Jew that can prove his origin. they are not given land. at best, they may apply for a rehabilitation grant.
1) during the Cold War, do you suppose Russians were allowed to visit their Alaskan ancestors' homes? during WW2, could German descent Americans return to their lovely homes and businesses in Berlin? Can Millions of Mexicans relocate and lay claim to Texas?
2) What are "heavily militarized" zones?
3) If you read history you will know that there has never ever been a defined Palestinian people with an independent state. it was always a part of a much greater nation. other than a few key cities, the land of israel/palestine was largely devoid of settlers for hundreds of years. most of the so called Palestinian people immigrated from Tureky/Syria/Egypt/Lebanon/Jordan as soon as 40 years before the formation of the state of Israel, after the mass Jewish immigrations of the turn of the 20th century brought an economic boom.
I'm well aware of the history of Palestine, I need not be schooled on it thankyou.
in the time before the 1948 exodus the Jewish population was ~10% it is now ~75%
I'm sure the Arabs were very happy about their land being stolen and forced into isolated pockets.
As for 'consequences of war', the Jews didn't wage the war, it was waged for them and is continued to be waged for them by means of extreme foriegn finance (ie USA).
Yes a stamp from Roosevelt's United Nations makes it all kosher, there is absolutely no conflict of interest in that transaction. So you're saying that if Asia created something analguous to the UN the above exodus of the united states would be fair if they stamped their approval?
Siting other injustices doesn't justify this injustice. However, now that time has past, can the Russians visit Alaska and even buy property there provided they get their visa in order? or how bout the German-Americans can they return to Berlin? These conflicts are of a simmilar age yet Israel is still going strong. I do believe that they did something to that Berlin Wall... what was it again... erm.. I believe they knocked that fucker down.
As soon as 40 years before Israel perhaps but people lived migrated there / lived there long before that. They didn't stop any specific demographic from living there.
ECONOMIC BOOM? Are you serious? That's justification for tearing people away from their homes? That 'economic boom' may have had just a little to do with unbelievably massive foreign injection of funds into the country. Very biased injection of funds for Jews and Jewish businesses.
Heavy militarized zones (aka de-militarized zones)
heres a few pics
There's a little game you can play looking at these photos. It's called guess who's the israelli and who's the palestinian... It's a fun game if you're able to isolate your emotions from human misery.
in the time before the 1948 exodus the Jewish population was ~10% it is now ~75%
I'm sure the Arabs were very happy about their land being stolen and forced into isolated pockets.
As for 'consequences of war', the Jews didn't wage the war, it was waged for them and is continued to be waged for them by means of extreme foriegn finance (ie USA).
Yes a stamp from Roosevelt's United Nations makes it all kosher, there is absolutely no conflict of interest in that transaction. So you're saying that if Asia created something analguous to the UN the above exodus of the united states would be fair if they stamped their approval?
Siting other injustices doesn't justify this injustice. However, now that time has past, can the Russians visit Alaska and even buy property there provided they get their visa in order? or how bout the German-Americans can they return to Berlin? These conflicts are of a simmilar age yet Israel is still going strong. I do believe that they did something to that Berlin Wall... what was it again... erm.. I believe they knocked that fucker down.
As soon as 40 years before Israel perhaps but people lived migrated there / lived there long before that. They didn't stop any specific demographic from living there.
ECONOMIC BOOM? Are you serious? That's justification for tearing people away from their homes? That 'economic boom' may have had just a little to do with unbelievably massive foreign injection of funds into the country. Very biased injection of funds for Jews and Jewish businesses.
Heavy militarized zones (aka de-militarized zones)
heres a few pics
There's a little game you can play looking at these photos. It's called guess who's the israelli and who's the palestinian... It's a fun game if you're able to isolate your emotions from human misery.
ah, so we've started a propaganda campaign.
posting pictures out of context is not a valid form of discussion.
be that as it may, i'd like to answer a few of your earlier points:
1) the United Nations Special Committee on Palestine wrote in 1947:
http://www.mideastweb.org/unscop1947.htm
there were over 60% Jews in the are of the proposed Jewish state, and 50% in Jerusalem.
2) As i've stated, huge swaths of land were legally bought and paid for by organized Jewish groups from the Ottoman Empire, as can be evidenced by the Kushans. the partition plan was based on that premise, plus the actual population demography - even though most Arabs residing on the land did so illegally (ie, without actually owning the land or getting permits. the English did little to change that).
3) as for the blank disregard of the UN, look how all of these members voted:
* 30 countries (54%) initially in favour:
o Australia, Belgium, Bolivia, Brazil, Belorussian SSR, Canada, Costa Rica, Czechoslovakia, Denmark, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, France, Guatemala, Iceland, Luxembourg, Netherlands, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Norway, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Poland, Sweden, South Africa, Ukrainian SSR, United States of America, Soviet Union, Uruguay, Venezuela.
* An additional 3 (5%) switched to in favor:
o Haiti, Liberia, Philippines.
Against, (13 countries, 23%):
* Afghanistan, Cuba, Egypt, Greece, India, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Turkey, Yemen.
Abstentions, (10 countries, 18%):
* Argentina, Chile, Republic of China, Colombia, El Salvador, Ethiopia, Honduras, Mexico, United Kingdom, Yugoslavia.
Absent, (1 countries, 0%):
* Thailand
4) when you are in a state of war, you don't let enemy nation's citizens visit freely. all the wars you've cited have since ENDED.
5) the British imposed QUOTAS for Jewish immigration. There were none for Arabs.
6) Arabs immigrated TO Palestine because of the economic boom. of course the influx of cash was "biased" as it came from Jews! you are not "entitled" to cash just because of your heritage. Jews actively and painstakingly gathered huge portions of their wealth to support the growing Jewish settlements.
posting pictures out of context is not a valid form of discussion.
be that as it may, i'd like to answer a few of your earlier points:
1) the United Nations Special Committee on Palestine wrote in 1947:
http://www.mideastweb.org/unscop1947.htm
there were over 60% Jews in the are of the proposed Jewish state, and 50% in Jerusalem.
2) As i've stated, huge swaths of land were legally bought and paid for by organized Jewish groups from the Ottoman Empire, as can be evidenced by the Kushans. the partition plan was based on that premise, plus the actual population demography - even though most Arabs residing on the land did so illegally (ie, without actually owning the land or getting permits. the English did little to change that).
3) as for the blank disregard of the UN, look how all of these members voted:
* 30 countries (54%) initially in favour:
o Australia, Belgium, Bolivia, Brazil, Belorussian SSR, Canada, Costa Rica, Czechoslovakia, Denmark, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, France, Guatemala, Iceland, Luxembourg, Netherlands, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Norway, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Poland, Sweden, South Africa, Ukrainian SSR, United States of America, Soviet Union, Uruguay, Venezuela.
* An additional 3 (5%) switched to in favor:
o Haiti, Liberia, Philippines.
Against, (13 countries, 23%):
* Afghanistan, Cuba, Egypt, Greece, India, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Turkey, Yemen.
Abstentions, (10 countries, 18%):
* Argentina, Chile, Republic of China, Colombia, El Salvador, Ethiopia, Honduras, Mexico, United Kingdom, Yugoslavia.
Absent, (1 countries, 0%):
* Thailand
4) when you are in a state of war, you don't let enemy nation's citizens visit freely. all the wars you've cited have since ENDED.
5) the British imposed QUOTAS for Jewish immigration. There were none for Arabs.
6) Arabs immigrated TO Palestine because of the economic boom. of course the influx of cash was "biased" as it came from Jews! you are not "entitled" to cash just because of your heritage. Jews actively and painstakingly gathered huge portions of their wealth to support the growing Jewish settlements.
ChairmanMiau
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2009
- Messages
- 370
Such crap.
Losers.
Just another clear sign that facebook does more bad than good (if any) for almost all people that use it...
I take facebook as "good for nothing" since I email/chat/picture msg with all my true friends instantly, without any problems (via my phone AND/or PC)
Facebook is clearly, and most obviously a big melting snowball of hype right now.... I give it 2 to 3 years tops before the fatcat supporters(e.g: Microsoft "owns" 1.0% of facebook) back out their big money for facebooks spamlike advertising, which in turn will put facebook into the "been there, done that" bucket with myspace, friendster, etc where it truly belongs.
Just another clear sign that facebook does more bad than good (if any) for almost all people that use it...
I take facebook as "good for nothing" since I email/chat/picture msg with all my true friends instantly, without any problems (via my phone AND/or PC)
Facebook is clearly, and most obviously a big melting snowball of hype right now.... I give it 2 to 3 years tops before the fatcat supporters(e.g: Microsoft "owns" 1.0% of facebook) back out their big money for facebooks spamlike advertising, which in turn will put facebook into the "been there, done that" bucket with myspace, friendster, etc where it truly belongs.
Facebook IS a fad... the only thing different they did is they spam cable TV shows (tell me you have not heard, JOIN US ON FACEBOOK AND TWITTER a few hundred times?). That has already started being less popularly said on shows now, and I noticed people with 300+ friends EVER get more than 5 comments on their page LOL!
From 2006 - "Friendster losing steam, is myspace just a new fad?"
http://www.danah.org/papers/FriendsterMySpaceEssay.html
Retronym
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2007
- Messages
- 13,605
Heroism of soldiers better when it isn't a conditional contribution to society.
stealthy123
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2005
- Messages
- 3,149
if I was israeli I would draft dodge too.
screw their inhumane policies. It's a terrorist state.
screw their inhumane policies. It's a terrorist state.
stealthy123
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2005
- Messages
- 3,149
you don't try to force western capitalism on another culture and then say, "we gave them a chance to abandon their values and conform, they didn't so fuck em"
the audacity of capitalistic "freedom" pushers is sickening.
the audacity of capitalistic "freedom" pushers is sickening.
piscian18
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2005
- Messages
- 11,021
Which I'm 100% for.
If I were drafted, I would dodge it. I fight my enemies and my enemies only.
Also, never went to college, and never in my adult life took one cent of public money for anything. I pay my own way, in my own way.
There is always another choice.
My "tribe" is who I say it is, not the horde of nameless people that I couldn't give a toss about who just happen to live within the boundries of the same squiggly line on some map.
no way, females have the same responsibilities as males in Israel?
The one good thing about it is the relative (though far from complete) equality.
A large portion of my aversion to military service in the US stems from the disgusting level of bigotry and bias.
NKDietrich
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2004
- Messages
- 5,442
In Israel they draft you to run over protestors and force civilians out of their homes.
TheWeazmeister
<a href=http://www.blogcdn.com/www.parentdish.com/
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2010
- Messages
- 3,346
Going back to what the thread was about to being with, LOL at people thinking that facebook is somehow a "safe zone" where whatever it is they don't want authorities to know about would be ok to post about. I think it's far more interesting the criteria they used to find out they weren't orthodox/hasidic.
I mean that is pretty hilarious, I wonder what degree of accuracy they have on some of these criteria to determine if someone was orthodox/hasidic or not. Reminds me of the West Wing episode of Shibboleth.
I mean that is pretty hilarious, I wonder what degree of accuracy they have on some of these criteria to determine if someone was orthodox/hasidic or not. Reminds me of the West Wing episode of Shibboleth.
PooprScooper
Weaksauce
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2010
- Messages
- 66
What if a woman actually was practicing religion and then changed her views on religion later? Why should you be forced to continue being brainwashed by your parents for life?
WBurchnall
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2009
- Messages
- 2,622
"People can get out of it" if they are religious. Those who are not religious have manditory military service. Therefore, those ppl who are not religious are forced to serve in the military no matter what but those who are religious can apply not to have to serve. See the whole, discrimination because you don't believe in the same god, aspect of this type of exemption/argument?
The US equivilent would basically be:
Ohh what's that, you don't believe in Jesus? Well I'm sorry but your joining the military and risking your life in Iraq for 4 years whether you want to or not. Unless of course, you convert to Christanity in which case you can apply not to go as long as you go to church every Sunday, never dress in revealing clothing, follow the bible strict, observe all holidays, raise your kids to have the same belief, you also agree not to use any electronics during given periods of time of the week, etc.
If this ever occurred in the US, you'd have outrage at A. Manditory drafting and B. Manditory drafting applying to only those who don't celebrate Jesus. Aka Manditory drafting for non-christians. This would of course include: Your jewish? off to Iraq. Islamic? off to Iraq. Buddist? off to Iraq. Spiritual but you don't believe in Jesus? off to Iraq.
In that case, I'm sure you'd have people claiming this non-jesus manditory draft unless you become a 'believer' would be described as religiously oppressive, anti-semitic, etc etc.
It's odd how many people JUMP to defend manditory drafting of this type in Isreal though.
SS_Wehrwolf
Gawd
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2005
- Messages
- 632
Isnt human stupidity one of the best traits in the world to be publicly guilty of? LOL
Social Media.. Redefining Stupidity One Post at a Time.
Social Media.. Redefining Stupidity One Post at a Time.
While I applaud your sense of individuality, it's apparent you live a very sheltered life.
1) i'm not sure how Israel's service causes soldiers to fight against someone who is not their enemy. The terrorist organization Hezbollah, which has fired thousands upon thousands of shrapnel filled high-explosive rockets on Israeli cities the last few years (one of which shattered my uncle's car windshield and opened bullet-like holes in his door, luckily he wasn't in it at that time. another landed in the street next to mine, but thanks to the air-raid sirens everyone were at their bomb shelter). Hezbollah is also the second largest political party of the Lebanese parliament. After a bloody coup, Hamas took control of the entire Gaza strip, and still to this day fire rockets and mortars into bordering Israeli towns. Before the separation barrier was erected, Hamas also spearheaded a decade long suicide attack campaign which had cost the lives of thousands.
2) unless you live in cave, you use A LOT of public money. roads, electric infrastructure, water and sewage infrastructure - and the maintenance of the above. there's also phone/internet/cellular - ALL made possible by banding together and pooling community resources. and if we're on the subject - what about police/fire brigade/healthcare/military ? it was just a few years ago that the Soviet Union was prepared to take over your house, you know...
3) the question is not whether you consider yourself an integral part of the "tribe", but whether another tribe considers you an enemy just because of your supposed tribe affiliation. I trust that if Mexicans suddenly decided to start a national campaign of ambushing American highways with AK47s, you WILL feel the pain.
MrGuvernment
Fully [H]
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2004
- Messages
- 21,797
You do know you can server your country in other ways beside joining an army and such, just because someone doesn't wish to see the battle field doesn't always mean they aren't doing something else to help their country.
Personally to me people who blindly join the forces to "server their country" are the idiots who need to learn to think for themselves instead of believe what ever their government tells them and thinks is right and best for them.
Those that choose to join knowing what they are getting into, i salute them, it is a hard decision. I find it amusing those people who loose someone in war and then complain about it because they "only joined to get an education"....
these types of people would be living in a hole somewhere with their 5 family members eating berries and squirrels. They don't seem to understand the basic idea that if you live in a country and enjoy your life there enough to stay, that you must help defend that country. If you live in Israel and want to stay then you must join the military, otherwise gtfo. If he saw Mexicans with aks on the highway he would most likely begin yelling whatever spanish words he knew out loud and then put on that mexican soccer jersey he keeps in the trunk for times like these lol.