Upgrading 2nd Rig for Rift

J

just1tree

Weaksauce
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Apr 4, 2007
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So I've been playing Rift, and surprisingly this game is really punishing on my systems. When playing it on my Q9550 + HD 6950 (flashed 6970) i get solid frame rates with little to no dips. But unfortunately my wife doesn't prefer that I play in my bedroom for too long because my kids tend to destroy things when I'm out of sight :eek:. The other system I have is a core 2 duo e6750 overclocked to 3.00 ghz with a radeon 5870. Afterburner shows that my gpu isn't always maxxed, but the cpu is slammed at 100%.

So I wanted to hold out for bulldozer, but that's a few months of time that I'd have to deal with slower frame rates. So I was looking for some feedback on these ideas:

Should I just jump on the SB train and upgrade my primary system from q9550 to a 2500k or 2600k and just roll the q9550 to the older system? Or could i swing one of the AM3 boards that may or may not get by with BD and a cheap phenom II x4 for that system to get me by? Or should I just suck it up and wait. Thanks for the thoughts.
 
Yeah, just throw in a core2 quad. Hell, even a 6600 OCed to 3ghz should be fine (even though it's a cpu that I hate).
 
GregP24 said:
In answer to the OP's question, why not just upgrade your e6750 to a q9550?
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For Rift? Bad idea. Rift is fairly CPU intensive, but unfortunately it is also very single threaded. So what matters is speed, not total power. That would end up being almost no upgrade when you get down to it.

I'll post results later today but I upgraded from a Q9550 to a 2600k yesterday and it resulted in a very large FPS jump.

If Rift is your goal then you want whatever gives you the best single threaded performance. Currently the 2600 is the absolute best, but on a budget you'd want a faster dual core rather than a slower quad core.

Now of course remember that applies to Rift, not to all other games. Bad Company 2, for example, loves it some quad core. You want a quad for it much more than a dual, even if it is a bit slower.

Also with regards to speed remember that with each generation, CPUs get faster per clock. A 3GHz Sandy Bridge is faster than a 3GHz original i7 is faster than a 3GHz Core 2. That doesn't mean OMG YOU NEED SB!!!!11 but it does mean that you need to consider that when thinking speed. Don't say "Well this core 2 is 3.2GHz and the new SB I'm looking at is only 3.4GHz, that's not much of an increase." Actually that is a massive increase since the SB is much faster per clock.
 
I'd buy a 2500K setup unless you need 8 threads for something else besides gaming. A budget P67 board with 2500K plus 4gb ddr3 would play Rift very well.
 
With my 2500K and GTX 470 Rift can still chug. Granted I am running Ultra settings @ 1900x1200 but I just don't understand. Performance should be better. Major Rift's still bog my system down :(
 
Vengance_01 said:
With my 2500K and GTX 470 Rift can still chug. Granted I am running Ultra settings @ 1900x1200 but I just don't understand. Performance should be better. Major Rift's still bog my system down :(
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OC that cpu to at least 4ghz.
 
Yah I wanted to avoid further upgrades for my 775 setups, the 680i A8N32-E SLI SPP runs really hot. I've been on the fence about SB but I definitely want a quad core minimum. I think the main reason I see such better FPS in rift on the Q9550 is because it is clocked where it is. I would think a good mobo + 2500k at 4.6+ would handle rift much more efficiently. Vengeance, I'm curious if your running AA or High AF with ultra settings as I hear those are big fps hits. AA mainly because it's supersampling, and AF due to optimizations or something. I had to turn AA off even on my quad rig due to it's FPS hit esp during big rifts.
 
rift is way more gpu intensive. with an i7 and 4850 the game chugs on my mac (my pc is out - no room for my monitors atm). i would stick with the 775 for now and get a good card that can carry over to a future build (at least until summer).
 
I posted this in the main thread, but it bears repeating here:

So, RIFT is for sure CPU limited if you've a good video card. I just did a test after upgrading, and it makes a major difference in FPS. Basically I ran around and used the game in game FPS to check. It is kinda like a HardOCP test in that this is actual gameplay, not a benchmark. I did one test in Meridian, out in the courtyard, around lots of people. The other I did out in Iron Pine Peaks, alone with just some mobs.

In both cases AA/AF was off in Catalyst, so it was set to whatever level the detail in game dictated. Textures were set to quality, surface format optimization on. Mipmaps were high quality, vsync was off unless the app asked for it. These results are within days of each other.

The Results:

System before the upgrade

--Core 2 Quad Q9550 @ 2.8GHz (stock).
--Radeon 5870 1GB @ stock.
--8 GB DDR2 800MHz RAM.
--Windows 7 SP1 64-bit

Meridian Low: 33-45fps, 38ish average
Meridian High: 23-32fps, 28ish average

IPP Low: 66-90, 73ish average
IPP High: 41-61fps, 60ish average

System after the upgrade

--Core i7-2600k @ 3.4GHz (stock).
--Radeon 5870 1GB @ stock.
--16 GB DDR3 1600MHz RAM.
--Windows 7 SP1 64-bit

Meridian Low: 55-67fps, 60ish average
Meridian High: 44-60fps, 51ish average
Meridian Ultra: 35-48fps, 40ish average

IPP Low: 118-151fps, 125ish average
IPP High: 65-76fps, 69ish average
IPP Ultra: 55-71fps, 62ish average


As you can see, the processor upgrade sped things up a lot. In particular, it is really noticeable when lots is going on. Out in the wilderness, maybe you get more GPU limited. However when there are lots of characters around, your CPU needs to step up to the plate.

Now one thing to note if you are thinking about upgrading is that Rift is heavily single core. It does make use of more than one core, but not that well. Most of what it does is on one. So what this means is to upgrade, you need faster cores. If you have a 2.8GHz Core 2 Duo, going to a 2.8GHz Core 2 Quad will gain you nothing. However do remember that between generations the CPUs do more per clock. A 2.8GHz Core i7 is a good bit faster than a 2.8GHz Core 2.

With a Sandy Bridge, it seems like it is more the GPU limiting things again, as it should be.

So, if you have a good video card, but your RIFT FPS are dragging, have a look at the CPU. That is probably your issue. It certainly was mine.
 
I have read a lot of post that said rift was a cpu hog.
Some were even shouting a lot of it could have been offloaded to the gpu but they built for the least comon denominator and gpu's were way down on the list.
big thanks to Sycraft for clearing a lot of it up.
 
Another thing I've experienced in MMOs is that they depend a lot on RAM, particularly when there's a lot of players around. RAM prices are cheap so I'd probably splurge on that too if you can.
 
Sycraft, that's some great information and that verifies my suspicions that i'm cpu bound. Now if I can find a decent P67 board to go with a SB. Is the advantage of cache and hyperthreading of 2600k a value in this case or would a overclocked 2500k be plenty?
 
just1tree said:
Sycraft, that's some great information and that verifies my suspicions that i'm cpu bound. Now if I can find a decent P67 board to go with a SB. Is the advantage of cache and hyperthreading of 2600k a value in this case or would a overclocked 2500k be plenty?
Click to expand...

I would think a 2500K overclocked or not would be sufficient. Granted I would overclock it anyway since they are very easily done with a decent mobo.
 
GregP24 said:
This is the "PC Gaming & HARDWARE" subforum. Since the OP's question directly relates to PC gaming, I think he's fine posting here.

In answer to the OP's question, why not just upgrade your e6750 to a q9550?
Click to expand...

The Q9550 is so expensive today that it's just not worth it. Might as well spend a tiny bit more and get a proper 2500K in there.
 
People also forget how important the hard drive is for games like MMO's, a SSD will provide you with a noticeable improvement not just in your all around computing experience, but also in MMO's since MMO's tend to be constantly accessing your hard drive to load areas, textures, and whatnot more than any other kind of game out there. A SSD will decrease your load times significantly over a mechanical drive.

I would definitely get a SSD to improve your overall gaming experience for this type of game. Prices have fallen quite a bit recently, so now's a good time to take the plunge.
 
Thanks for the suggestion, only downside I think is the motherboard itself just won't give me much over clocking headroom. I know the E6750 can do a higher overclock than 3.0 ghz, but to get there I have to bump the voltage up on the board and it creates too much heat on the southbridge that the system will lock up.
 
just1tree said:
Thanks for the suggestion, only downside I think is the motherboard itself just won't give me much over clocking headroom. I know the E6750 can do a higher overclock than 3.0 ghz, but to get there I have to bump the voltage up on the board and it creates too much heat on the southbridge that the system will lock up.
Click to expand...

I see, bummer. :(
 
just1tree said:
Sycraft, that's some great information and that verifies my suspicions that i'm cpu bound. Now if I can find a decent P67 board to go with a SB. Is the advantage of cache and hyperthreading of 2600k a value in this case or would a overclocked 2500k be plenty?
Click to expand...

A 2500k would me more than plenty. I got a 2600 because, well, that is just how I am :). It was 100% the case of "I want" not "I need." A 2600 is really not worth the extra money, so if money is a concern, then get a 2500 and be happy.

Also overclocking the SB is not necessary. I haven't yet, and may not for now, since stuff is not at all CPU limited using it.

In terms of boards I got an MSI P67A-GD65. It is... Acceptable. What I mean by that is it works very well and uses top notch components, but I wish I had got an Intel board because what I value is different. It is an overclocker board that presumes you want control of everything. I want a nice business board. My two issues with it are:

1) The UEFI is all kinds of ugly/clunky. Intel's are all text mode like old BIOS, but they are streamlined and easy to use. The UEFI could use work on this board. Everything you need (and plenty you don't) is in there, it is just kinda clunky.

2) It does not thermally control fan speeds. You set the speed yourself in the BIOS or its control centre. Well I don't want fixed fan speeds, I want it to set it automatically. Speedfan will do it, but you have to load it manually and it isn't as responsive as teh native control on my old Intel board was.

However it does work fine, and apparently OC's well (HardOCP liked it).
 
just1tree said:
Yah I wanted to avoid further upgrades for my 775 setups, the 680i A8N32-E SLI SPP runs really hot. I've been on the fence about SB but I definitely want a quad core minimum. I think the main reason I see such better FPS in rift on the Q9550 is because it is clocked where it is. I would think a good mobo + 2500k at 4.6+ would handle rift much more efficiently. Vengeance, I'm curious if your running AA or High AF with ultra settings as I hear those are big fps hits. AA mainly because it's supersampling, and AF due to optimizations or something. I had to turn AA off even on my quad rig due to it's FPS hit esp during big rifts.
Click to expand...

You can't put a Q9550 in that board, 680i doesn't support it. That should end the conversation.
 
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