Upgrade or wait: i7 7700k vs i7 8700k vs i7 930

edo101

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Hi all

After getting my 1080 Ti and trying to game at 4K3D, i;ve noticed some hiccups on my old X58 rig

I have avoided the upgrade itch for years now and honestly would rather spend the money on other parts of my life but I can afford a little spending despite not wanting to.

The delima here now is, I can buy a used system for 600 bucks that includes an i7 7700k, its water cooler, ram and mobo for 600 bucks: MAXIMUS IX FORMULA
i7 7700k
Corsair cooling system
Vengeance ram sticks

or I can buy a new retail box i7 8700k and Asus Z370-A II mobo for 440. Would have to buy ram and cooler

or I can stay the current path with my 1080 Ti and i7 930 and wait for another year after I get a full time job and think about an upgrade. And or look at Ryzen

Any input?

I was pondering a Xeon upgrade but I don't think it'll help me much with 4K3D seeing as its the same architecture
 
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cjcox

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Since money is tight, my best advice, wait. While any CPU would likely be an upgrade from your old i7 930, the longer you wait the cheaper "yesterday's best" will become. And there won't be a huge difference between 7, 8 or even 9th gen CPUs (depending on how much you want to spend of course!).

There are some "nice" feature differences... but you don't have those needs today, it would only be if suddenly you think you "need" those features.

Other option. Upgrade to a 3rd or 4th gen on the cheap (buy a cheapy used system). That's gets you where you want to be performance wise (well, better anyhow) and allows you to still save some money for a "new" machine down the road.

(Sandy Bridge, 2nd gen, just saying, was probably the biggest gen-to-gen jump)
 

edo101

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Since money is tight, my best advice, wait. While any CPU would likely be an upgrade from your old i7 930, the longer you wait the cheaper "yesterday's best" will become. And there won't be a huge difference between 7, 8 or even 9th gen CPUs (depending on how much you want to spend of course!).

There are some "nice" feature differences... but you don't have those needs today, it would only be if suddenly you think you "need" those features.

Other option. Upgrade to a 3rd or 4th gen on the cheap (buy a cheapy used system). That's gets you where you want to be performance wise (well, better anyhow) and allows you to still save some money for a "new" machine down the road.

(Sandy Bridge, 2nd gen, just saying, was probably the biggest gen-to-gen jump)


I might lean towards waiting for that full time job. It's hard now though. Got a decent internship right now and trying to play some games in 3D with the 930 is a little painful haha

But yeah i wanted to throw it out there cause those seemed like decent deals but then agian I've been out of the game for a long time and don't know what features I'd be getting with one vs the other. Also don't know much about AMD's stuff lately

But the techs that are important to me is finally getting front header USB 3.0, native SATA 3 support, 4K and 3D Blu Ray support. I've also noticed that some of my older games can't utilize my 1080 Ti past 40 percent like COH2. its annoying as it drops to the 40s at 1440p!

Some games bug out with 3D so my GPU usage drops. All of these point to my old 930 of course. Then you have one or two games like AC Origins that want more cores and stronger single thread peformance on vanilla 4K.
 

jardows

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I favor buying new rather than used, unless you need it now and your budget only allows for the used stuff. Ryzen 2 is competetive with the latest i7's, and the upcoming Ryzen 3 with the x570 chipset should be a compelling option in the price to performance option. That should be coming out later this year, and would give you a clear look at what is available by then.
 

edo101

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I favor buying new rather than used, unless you need it now and your budget only allows for the used stuff. Ryzen 2 is competetive with the latest i7's, and the upcoming Ryzen 3 with the x570 chipset should be a compelling option in the price to performance option. That should be coming out later this year, and would give you a clear look at what is available by then.

That 8700k and mobo combo is new in retail box according to him
 

Spartacus09

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I just bought myself a new 9th gen combo coming in this weekend.
If you need something to tide you over till they release 10nm, I'll have a 3rd gen 3770 kit w/16g of ram available soon if you're wanting about a 60% upgrade for pretty reasonable cost (I may have a cooler, not sure though).
 

edo101

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I just bought myself a new 9th gen combo coming in this weekend.
If you need something to tide you over till they release 10nm, I'll have a 3rd gen 3770 kit w/16g of ram available soon if you're wanting about a 60% upgrade for pretty reasonable cost (I may have a cooler, not sure though).

I'd be interested. My goal was to make one upgrade and forget it for another 5 yers like i did with my 930 but this 3D stuff is starting to wear on my patience
 

Archaea

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Buy a Ryzen 1700x for $150 (8 core 16 thread)
https://www.microcenter.com/product/485473/ryzen-7-1700x-34-ghz-8-core-am4-boxed-processor

OR 1700 for $136 (8 core 16 thread)
https://slickdeals.net/f/12908395-a...-processor-135-99-free-shipping?src=frontpage

or 1600 for $80 (6core 12 thread)
https://slickdeals.net/f/12905065-amd-ryzen-5-1600-79-99-microcenter-free-store-pickup?src=frontpage

A x470 Gigabyte gaming ultra for $100
https://www.microcenter.com/product/600975/x470-aorus-ultra-gaming-am4-atx-amd-motherboard

16GB of ddr4 3000 Ram for $77
https://slickdeals.net/f/12908338-1...top-memory-73-94-free-shipping?src=SiteSearch


DONE


Hell of an upgrade from what you got for $250-$350



Need some cool RGB fans that can be controlled by the Gigabyte x470 motherboard?
3 RGB addressable fans for $23
https://slickdeals.net/f/12912883-d...ase-fan-kit-22-99-free-shipping?src=frontpage
 
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kirbyrj

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Well, I mean if you upgrade to a Xeon you'd get 50% more cores. I got a X5660 that did 4.2Ghz for $22 on Ebay. If you're leaning on waiting anyway, I'd at least upgrade a little to a hex core.
 

jardows

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That 8700k and mobo combo is new in retail box according to him
I was referring to the used i7 7700k system you mentioned. Between those two, I'd go with the upgrade route, due to the new components. But, with the Ryzen 3 coming out, and waiting being one of your options, I'd wait. Plus, if you're going to wait for a year, and Ryzen 3 is as great as some people are hoping, you'll also have the option of whatever Intel comes out with in response. Right now, if you can hold off for at least half a year +, I think you'll be in great shape.
 

MMitch

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4K3D is your goal from what I read. XEON is definitely not a gaming CPU (yeah it can do it).
At 4K you won't be CPU limited for your 1080ti.
As others mentioned, AMD would be cheaper and a better option for 4K. I would also side with wait for Zen 2 and go for not bleeding edge but above middle range.
If you can wait a few months you'll get best bang for your bucks and also RAM price may decrease more and allow at least 16 if not 32GB.
 

Spartacus09

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Well, I mean if you upgrade to a Xeon you'd get 50% more cores. I got a X5660 that did 4.2Ghz for $22 on Ebay. If you're leaning on waiting anyway, I'd at least upgrade a little to a hex core.
This is actually your most economical route if you're cpu limited (assuming multi-thread workloads), you could get a 6 core 12 thread W3680 for about $50, if you want to stick in the i7 market the i7-970 is about $75 on the bay.
Additionally ram is plenty in the DDR3 market, especially 2 gig sticks, grab another 3x 2gb set or a 3x 4gb.
 

Archaea

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There's also some decent deals on slick deals today on the Intel side, but Intel just costs significantly more.

There is a ASrock 370 mobo with 8GB RAM for $130 at newegg. + 9600K CPU for $220.

That's $350 for 6 cores 6 threads with 8GB of 3000 RAM for Intel 9600K
vs. $300 for 8 cores 16 threads with 16GB of 3000 RAM with AMD 1700.

Hard to justify Intel IMO with that delta.

Plus the AM4 socket x470 board can be upgraded to a 12 core 5Ghz processor with Ryzen three if the rumors hold true when they come out later this summer if you find the Ryzen 1700 lacking at some point in the future.


I own an Intel 6850K system right now - but it's REALLY hard to justify Intel with AMD's pricing unless you game at 1080P and are looking for the absolute highest frame rate possible. If you game at 4K or 3440x1440 - the difference is moot.
 

edo101

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4K3D is your goal from what I read. XEON is definitely not a gaming CPU (yeah it can do it).
At 4K you won't be CPU limited for your 1080ti.
As others mentioned, AMD would be cheaper and a better option for 4K. I would also side with wait for Zen 2 and go for not bleeding edge but above middle range.
If you can wait a few months you'll get best bang for your bucks and also RAM price may decrease more and allow at least 16 if not 32GB.
This is actually your most economical route if you're cpu limited (assuming multi-thread workloads), you could get a 6 core 12 thread W3680 for about $50, if you want to stick in the i7 market the i7-970 is about $75 on the bay.
Additionally ram is plenty in the DDR3 market, especially 2 gig sticks, grab another 3x 2gb set or a 3x 4gb.

Thats what everyone says but I wish there were actual figures to support this. And to see how much I am losing with my 930. To know if there is a point in sidegrading to Xeon.

AC Origins chugs when I play it and a lot of times I don't see GPU usage at 100%. settles around 80%. in 3D some games have some bugs which make single thread performance very important even at 4K. So because of the 3D aspect of things, I'm leaning more towards stronger core performance even at 4K. I do also sometimes play on my 1440p monitor, espcially for RTS but mostly when the 4K TV is around i play at 4K
There's also some decent deals on slick deals today on the Intel side, but Intel just costs significantly more.

There is a ASrock 370 mobo with 8GB RAM for $130 at newegg. + 9600K CPU for $220.

That's $350 for 6 cores 6 threads with 8GB of 3000 RAM for Intel 9600K
vs. $300 for 8 cores 16 threads with 16GB of 3000 RAM with AMD 1700.

Hard to justify Intel IMO with that delta.

Plus the AM4 socket x470 board can be upgraded to a 12 core 5Ghz processor with Ryzen three if the rumors hold true when they come out later this summer if you find the Ryzen 1700 lacking at some point in the future.

If you game at 4K or 3440x1440 - the difference is moot.

So it would seem that getting that 8700k deal is not that optimal then. I guess I'll have to wait for what Ryzen holds and see how prices drop then. I legit thought the 8700k would be a good deal. I'll ask around the 3D vision forums if Ryzen plays well with 3D
 

MMitch

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Well, what are your real goals right now ? (And budget)

If you shoot for immediate performance at a discount, Intel i7 used on ddr3 platform. Somewhat future proof, i7 with ddr4 from a few gen or Ryzen 1600/1700(X).
If you want best solution and can hold a few months while gathering more budget, time will tell.

At this point you need to decide if you buy now, or later and new or used. There's pro's and con's to each.

I still don't think XEON is a good a choice for only gaming build. Do you do anything else with the PC (More demanding)?
 

Archaea

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Lots of videos on YouTube comparing x58 to whatever

Here’s on comparing x58 hex core to i7 9900k

 

edo101

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Well, what are your real goals right now ? (And budget)

If you shoot for immediate performance at a discount, Intel i7 used on ddr3 platform. Somewhat future proof, i7 with ddr4 from a few gen or Ryzen 1600/1700(X).
If you want best solution and can hold a few months while gathering more budget, time will tell.

At this point you need to decide if you buy now, or later and new or used. There's pro's and con's to each.

I still don't think XEON is a good a choice for only gaming build. Do you do anything else with the PC (More demanding)?

Mainly gaming. I should also mention I am an intern at INtel so we do get like half off product
 

Archaea

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Great price. Yes it’s worth it.

Can you buy more than one? You’d have guys a mile long lining up at that price.
Myself included.
 

edo101

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Great price. Yes it’s worth it.

Can you buy more than one? You’d have guys a mile long lining up at that price.
Myself included.


Yeah we have a limit on how many things we can buy total. I think 3 is the max from components total.

What about this 10nm thing you guys are talking about?
 
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Archaea

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Nothing from AMD is going to solidly best that 9900k for less than $250 anytime soon.

Jump on that and don’t look back. That chip will last as long as your i7-930 did IMO.

8 cores, at 5Ghz outta be good for a long long time.
 

MMitch

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At that price, we all have to side with 9900K :eek:
You could probably get some money selling your old rig too.
 

edo101

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At that price, we all have to side with 9900K :eek:
You could probably get some money selling your old rig too.

I hope I can maybe get 300 bucks for it with my R9 290. would help offset the cost and guilt of buying a Z390 mobo and DDR4 ram.

So you guys would recommend a 9900k given its increased mobo cost
 

Spartacus09

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I hope I can maybe get 300 bucks for it with my R9 290. would help offset the cost and guilt of buying a Z390 mobo and DDR4 ram.

So you guys would recommend a 9900k given its increased mobo cost
Yes, its really not that much higher costs when you consider you'd be spending more in the CPU to get an equivalent processor on the AMD side so it'd balance out.
Theres still great boards in the $200 range for the 9900k, I grabbed the EVGA Z390 ftw for $230 on Amazon.
 

edo101

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Yes, its really not that much higher costs when you consider you'd be spending more in the CPU to get an equivalent processor on the AMD side so it'd balance out.
Theres still great boards in the $200 range for the 9900k, I grabbed the EVGA Z390 ftw for $230 on Amazon.

What about waiting for 10nm? And Ryzen 2
 

Spartacus09

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At half price you’re still gonna come out ahead the 10 nm probably isn’t going to be available until 2020 likely, and anything Ryzen 3 is still going to be higher priced on average when you factor in your discount. You working for them would probably have a better idea than us on what to expect for the next gen/s.
 

edo101

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At half price you’re still gonna come out ahead the 10 nm probably isn’t going to be available until 2020 likely, and anything Ryzen 3 is still going to be higher priced on average when you factor in your discount. You working for them would probably have a better idea than us on what to expect for the next gen/s.

Lol I'm just an intern. I work in registery architecture. I guess I could ask around lol.

I guess it would be only slightly more because of the mobo and half ofd 9900k
 

Nenu

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I wouldnt touch anything on the market atm unless desperate.
Intel has too many unfixed security issues and AMD cant match Intels IPC.
Also AMD cannot match the memory speeds Intel can achieve with the same ram.
The next Zen CPU from AMD might close the gap enough, it will take a few years for Intel to sort things out.

I want to upgrade too but luckily I'm not so bad off with a 6700K.
I'm waiting.
 

MMitch

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I wouldnt touch anything on the market atm unless desperate.
Intel has too many unfixed security issues and AMD cant match Intels IPC.
Also AMD cannot match the memory speeds Intel can achieve with the same ram.
The next Zen CPU from AMD might close the gap enough, it will take a few years for Intel to sort things out.

I want to upgrade too but luckily I'm not so bad off with a 6700K.
I'm waiting.

Blablabla, so every computer is trash today lol ? If he can wait then yeah but from the grasp of it, he wants an upgrade and has privileged price.
Intel has mitigated the flaw thru SW, microcode, etc. yeah it affects performance but I would assume that latest review uses patched windows version...
AMD may not match IPC but they offer more cores and lower price.
AMD may not match memory speed but at this point, we're talking 1440P/4K/3D gaming.
 

Archaea

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Do you get a employee discount on any Intel branded motherboards. If there is even such a thing anymore?

Zen 3 is rumored to potentially have a 5Ghz flavor like the 9900k, but I suspect it will be more than $250, and it is looking to at least end of q2 before we have more info. For gaming you won’t need or benefit from more than 8 cores / 16 threads for a long time to come. Probably at least 5 years.

That is because the next generation gaming consoles that haven’t even been formally announced yet have both confirmed they will be using Ryzen 8 core CPUs. (Xbox and PlayStation). So they’ll come out in the next year or two, and then the next 4 years will have game engines being optimized for 8 core/16 thread. So I personally wouldn’t buy less than a octo core right now for fear you may be left sitting with two few cores for new game engines developed for the new consoles

But any modern Ryzen 8 core of Intel 8 core is a good choice for future proofing at least five years for gaming.

—— if value is the name of the game though the 6 core Ryzen is sooo cheap you can’t ignore it. you could consider buying a x470 Gigabyte gaming Ultra for $100 and a Ryzen 1600 for $80 (6 cores / 12 threads) and $75 for 16GB PC 3000 ram.
Thats $250 for a screaming system right now. That is NOT currently limited in core count for any games — especially at 4k.

When Ryzen three comes out in six months or a year or whenever you feel the need you can upgrade in place to the new CPU and get your 8 cores or 12 cores near 5Ghz. It’s a cheap upgrade now and a easy/cheap upgrade later.

The 9900k will still probably be a hair faster, but like I showed in the TechPowerUp video at 4k it just doesn’t matter how fast your CPU is because the 1080TI is your clear bottleneck.

So a 9900k is $250, and motherboard is $230, and that same 16GB of 3000 Mhz RAM is $75.
That’s $580.

$580 with no upgrade cost for 5+ years pretty clearly!

Or $250 for the hex core AMD with an upgrade path in a year or two to 8 core as needed.

You can pick your path. Both are good paths
Heck the Ryzen 1700x that is $150 right now is a 8 core 16 thread CPU that would also be good for five years for a middle option.
$100 motherboard
$150 CPU
$75 RAM
= $325


Just comes down to how much you wanna spend really.

Your 9900k price is the only reason I can justify an Intel purchase in this thread. Otherwise Intel is just too pricey over what you get from AMDs value offerings that are still amazing performers!
 
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Nenu

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Blablabla, so every computer is trash today lol ? If he can wait then yeah but from the grasp of it, he wants an upgrade and has privileged price.
Intel has mitigated the flaw thru SW, microcode, etc. yeah it affects performance but I would assume that latest review uses patched windows version...
AMD may not match IPC but they offer more cores and lower price.
AMD may not match memory speed but at this point, we're talking 1440P/4K/3D gaming.
You seem out of touch with reality.
 

N4CR

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Definitely upgrade right now a few months before takes a colossal AMD shit on Intel.
 
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