Update on my Amazon Payments dispute with beautypc

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Jeffman

Gawd
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Well, I won the dispute. I wouldn't say I "won", since it costed me $10 to have Amazon fight it for me.

The bad news, is the deadbeat opened ANOTHER dispute on the SAME TRANSACTION. Now Amazon wants another $10 to fight a second dispute on the same transaction. At this point, after paying them the second $10 fee, I'll have only made $5 on the entire transaction, and overall a loss on the product.

I hate this so much. I really wish very bad things on this man.
 
Just got off the phone with Amazon Payments. It sounds like they're going to waive the fee for me this round, and she sent all the same info up to fight the charge. I mentioned that he's been doing this to others as well, and asked her to see if there was anything they could do to prevent him from doing any more chargebacks on this transaction.

Hope nobody else has the same problem with this guy. I know there were 2 others that had chargeback problems with him, here's to hoping he doesn't try multiple chargebacks after losing.
 
Never know that you can dispute a transaction again after losing the first one.
 
PreOmegaZero said:
Makes you just want to close your Amazon Payments account, doesn't it?
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PreOmegaZero said:
Makes you just want to close your Amazon Payments account, doesn't it?
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A little. They've been good, other than charging me to fight it. I understand the charge though, since it wasn't a dispute opened with them, it was opened with the CC company.

Really though, I'm done selling. Unless people want to pay me cash, I'm finished. ~ 10 years with selling stuff online, this is the first problem I've had. Some would say I'm lucky for that, however this process has been an absolute nightmare. Never again...
 
Jeffman said:
A little. They've been good, other than charging me to fight it. I understand the charge though, since it wasn't a dispute opened with them, it was opened with the CC company.

Really though, I'm done selling. Unless people want to pay me cash, I'm finished. ~ 10 years with selling stuff online, this is the first problem I've had. Some would say I'm lucky for that, however this process has been an absolute nightmare. Never again...
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If this transaction happens with Paypal, its even worse. Paypal will not do anything and rule in favor of the buyer. Then, you will be left with negative balance in your account and the buyer would ship you a piece of rock.
 
bail_w said:
If this transaction happens with Paypal, its even worse. Paypal will not do anything and rule in favor of the buyer. Then, you will be left with negative balance in your account and the buyer would ship you a piece of rock.
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True that...
 
bail_w said:
If this transaction happens with Paypal, its even worse. Paypal will not do anything and rule in favor of the buyer. Then, you will be left with negative balance in your account and the buyer would ship you a piece of rock.
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It's about to get this way. After paying to ship him the item, and paying what would have been $20 in fees to Amazon, I'd have made $5. So...not much different.

Just glad Amazon has been decent about it.
 
This is another reason not to allow credit card paypal payments. Everything thinks it's because of the (old) fees, but in reality, if someone pays you from their paypal balance or checking account, then there is one less option for "chargebacks" since the CC company isn't an option, and they won't even stop to ask for both sides of the story, they'll just halt the payment into Paypal.
 
Also Paypal charges $20 to fight for you. So Amazon's $10 is better than paypal
 
Jeffman, if I had any money right now I'd offer to buy something from you, just so you'd have a transaction to smile about. Unfortunately I'm tapped flat out :(

I hate it when bad things happen to nice people...
 
Jeffman said:
A little. They've been good, other than charging me to fight it. I understand the charge though, since it wasn't a dispute opened with them, it was opened with the CC company.

Really though, I'm done selling. Unless people want to pay me cash, I'm finished. ~ 10 years with selling stuff online, this is the first problem I've had. Some would say I'm lucky for that, however this process has been an absolute nightmare. Never again...
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Don't let this stop you from selling. I get a "feel" for people and determine whether or not to do business.

If they take the "money order only, wait till it clears, will ship within 3 days route" then I don't purchase.

If I PM them and they are short with me like I'm bothering them then I don't purchase - You are the one trying to sell stuff dude, not me. I can buy this stuff anywhere.

If they take some sort of electronic payment, they are communicative in emails/PM's. Promise to send out that day or next with tracking. Willing to provide tracking # plus a working phone #, then I do business.
 
starhawk said:
Jeffman, if I had any money right now I'd offer to buy something from you, just so you'd have a transaction to smile about. Unfortunately I'm tapped flat out :(

I hate it when bad things happen to nice people...
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Thanks, lol. You're one of the guys I'd have no doubt in trusting.

Puterguru said:
Don't let this stop you from selling. I get a "feel" for people and determine whether or not to do business.

If they take the "money order only, wait till it clears, will ship within 3 days route" then I don't purchase.

If I PM them and they are short with me like I'm bothering them then I don't purchase - You are the one trying to sell stuff dude, not me. I can buy this stuff anywhere.

If they take some sort of electronic payment, they are communicative in emails/PM's. Promise to send out that day or next with tracking. Willing to provide tracking # plus a working phone #, then I do business.
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Yeah, I did get a bit sloppy there, and am willing to take responsibility. But even after the fact, I checked the guy out a little more. Short of doing a search for his real name on here, I'd have never known he was like this. He had a decent [H] account, and while it wasn't very much Heatware, it was all positive. He was quick in a response to my PM, and the transaction went smooth. Nothing seemed weird about it until 30 days later when I got notice of a chargeback. Losing the $30 isn't going to kill me, and even losing the $5 in shipping and whatever I lose in paying Amazon, won't kill me either. I don't need the money THAT bad. It's the principal that he's trying to screw people, and he's doing it to more than just me, and he's done it before. It's got to stop.
 
Jeffman said:
Thanks for the info, I was not aware of that. It sucks either way, but that does make Amazon a bit more appealing.
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And most of the time, you still lose paypal claim. It does not matter what you do. They side with the buyer 99.99% of the time.
 
hajalie24 said:
What are you talking about? Is this something new or are you just making things up?
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This was always the case. Once buyer opens a charge back, paypal charge you $20 to fight. No pay-no fight. It has been since I signed up with them. My first chargeback was 5-6 year ago, sold something on ebay internationally to india. almost 3 months later they opened a chargeback case. ALthough I followed the seller protection guideline and buyer signed for it, I lost the claim.
 
TurK-FX said:
This was always the case. Once buyer opens a charge back, paypal charge you $20 to fight. No pay-no fight. It has been since I signed up with them. My first chargeback was 5-6 year ago, sold something on ebay internationally to india. almost 3 months later they opened a chargeback case. ALthough I followed the seller protection guideline and buyer signed for it, I lost the claim.
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From all the paypal disputes against me not once has paypal told me to pay any money to even dispute it, of course I never won but I still never had to pay anything for them to "review" it and make their decision.
 
hajalie24 said:
From all the paypal disputes against me not once has paypal told me to pay any money to even dispute it, of course I never won but I still never had to pay anything for them to "review" it and make their decision.
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I'm assuming here, but I think the difference is a PayPal dispute VS a credit card chargeback. Disputes through PayPal, they have the say in a dispute between two parties. Credit card chargebacks, PayPal can only fight for you, but they have no say in what happens since it's up to the bank/credit card company. I think this is the case where PayPal would charge you to fight on your behalf.

In both cases, PayPal would be the middle man. But in a dispute, they don't have to do anything other than look at what both parties submit and decide. In a chargeback case, they have to represent you since they are having to fight the bank.
 
Jeffman said:
A little. They've been good, other than charging me to fight it. I understand the charge though, since it wasn't a dispute opened with them, it was opened with the CC company.

Really though, I'm done selling. Unless people want to pay me cash, I'm finished. ~ 10 years with selling stuff online, this is the first problem I've had. Some would say I'm lucky for that, however this process has been an absolute nightmare. Never again...
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This is basically why I stopped selling.
Puterguru said:
Don't let this stop you from selling. I get a "feel" for people and determine whether or not to do business.

If they take the "money order only, wait till it clears, will ship within 3 days route" then I don't purchase.

If I PM them and they are short with me like I'm bothering them then I don't purchase - You are the one trying to sell stuff dude, not me. I can buy this stuff anywhere.

If they take some sort of electronic payment, they are communicative in emails/PM's. Promise to send out that day or next with tracking. Willing to provide tracking # plus a working phone #, then I do business.
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If you can't trust me with a mo, I won't sell to you anyway.
 
Puterguru said:
A MO protects who? The Seller only.
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Not really. It protects nobody because protections means it is from a 3rd party. There is simply no such entity for MO.

Nobody is, or can, force a buyer to use MO. He/she chooses to trust the seller to deliver.
If you don't, just don't buy.
And why bother buy online anyway? Furthermore, why even bother to buy online from an individual instead of a large company?? To save money!

This is just the same as a seller assumes a lot of risk by trusting a buyer not to do dishonest disputes/chargeback if Paypal or CC is used. Again, nobody is, or can, force a seller to take PP or CC.

If PP or CC company can do their dispute/chargeback more fairly, we would not have this dilemma.
 
[L]imey;1041010691 said:
This is another reason not to allow credit card paypal payments. Everything thinks it's because of the (old) fees, but in reality, if someone pays you from their paypal balance or checking account, then there is one less option for "chargebacks" since the CC company isn't an option, and they won't even stop to ask for both sides of the story, they'll just halt the payment into Paypal.
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How would you know what method the buyer used for Paypal payment?
 
Jeff, glad to hear you won the first dispute. I submitted my info to paypal and they are reviewing. Paypal did not charge a fee regarding this dispute yet and it didn't mention anything about that so I assume no fee for the time being. Will update when I get a response.
 
^Good luck man! Hope he doesn't pull this shit on you too.

Meeho said:
How would you know what method the buyer used for Paypal payment?
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I'd also be interested in this. I assume PayPal lists it somewhere?
 
This is why i get so upset at theft. I hate shoplifters and thats basically what this is
 
Puterguru said:
A MO protects who? The Seller only.
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I disagree. The twice I was scammed and paid with a money order, the perp ended up having to refund me from his jail cell. Granted, it took leg work but the scammer ended up in jail for federal mail fraud.

The problem is people want to send money to random people on the internet but don't want to be held accountable for the risk. They want someone else to cover the loss if it doesn't pan out rather than doing the leg work up front researching the person before making the deal. I have no problem with paying or receiving a money order so long as the person has some rep and passes my sniff check. If I get the savings, I assume the risk. That's all part of the game, don't want to do the work or assume the risk, buy retail.
 
Gillbot said:
I disagree. The twice I was scammed and paid with a money order.
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Exactly, you were the buyer. I said a MO protects the seller.

I see a red flag when I see "MO only" as a form of payment. To me it MIGHT possibly mean that " I want there to be almost no way for this guy to get his money back if there is a problem".

I'm not saying I wouldn't buy from someone asking for MO only but, its a possible red flag for me if say they have only been on this forum for a short period of time.

If they are asking for MO only have been on this site quite some time. Don't have an attitude. Communicate well in PM's then sure, I'll buy.
 
But the protection goes both ways if a MO is used, because you were defrauded. Period. The point is that a mail service was used to conduct the transaction so it goes both ways. If the seller cashes the MO and doesn't hold up to their side of the deal, that's also intent to defraud. It just makes everyone involved do more legwork and not be lazy.

So many of the scams lately are all originating from the buyers side so no wonder people want MO only. If you take any electronic payment as a seller, you are flat asking for it. I only take electronic payment in certain circumstances, if they won't pay with a MO I don't sell. I've had buyers feel uncomfortable with that so I'll offer to call and speak to them on the phone. I'll give them my info to show I'm not a scammer and not going to hide. A simple google search with my info will yield all the details you need to know about me. This is something that used to happen all the time but paypal made people lazy. Now scammers can open a new paypal and continually rip people off because it's easier to remain anonymous.
 
Just heard back from Amazon. I lost. This piece of shit won his dispute and took me for a grand total of $45 after the Amazon fees. He's extremely lucky he lives 1000 miles away from me.

I'm just glad it's done. 2 weeks of stress for nothing. I know it's not a lot of money, and he CLEARLY needed it more than I do. I feel sorry for the pathetic loser, if this is what he needs to resort to so he can make ends meet, he must be living a pretty hard life.

In the end, I can say I've learned a LOT about online transactions, and considering the transactions that I do are small, just to get rid of old parts out of my closet, I think it's going to be done. I'd rather just throw this stuff away then deal with "selling" it, then getting screwed out of the money I got, paying out of pocket for shipping it to the buyer, and to fight the charges, and also for 1-2 weeks of being stressed and feeling abused.

Karma's a bitch man. This scumbag will get what he deserves in the end.
 
Jeffman said:
Just heard back from Amazon. I lost. This piece of shit won his dispute and took me for a grand total of $45 after the Amazon fees. He's extremely lucky he lives 1000 miles away from me.

I'm just glad it's done. 2 weeks of stress for nothing. I know it's not a lot of money, and he CLEARLY needed it more than I do. I feel sorry for the pathetic loser, if this is what he needs to resort to so he can make ends meet, he must be living a pretty hard life.

In the end, I can say I've learned a LOT about online transactions, and considering the transactions that I do are small, just to get rid of old parts out of my closet, I think it's going to be done. I'd rather just throw this stuff away then deal with "selling" it, then getting screwed out of the money I got, paying out of pocket for shipping it to the buyer, and to fight the charges, and also for 1-2 weeks of being stressed and feeling abused.

Karma's a bitch man. This scumbag will get what he deserves in the end.
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Sorry to hear about all your hassle, and losing.

I 100% believe in Karma, it will coma back on him. I do agree with what you said about tossing stuff out. Most of the stuff I have ends up in the trash. I hardly ever sell anything. Life is just easier that way.:(
 
Jeffman said:
Just heard back from Amazon. I lost. This piece of shit won his dispute and took me for a grand total of $45 after the Amazon fees. He's extremely lucky he lives 1000 miles away from me.

I'm just glad it's done. 2 weeks of stress for nothing. I know it's not a lot of money, and he CLEARLY needed it more than I do. I feel sorry for the pathetic loser, if this is what he needs to resort to so he can make ends meet, he must be living a pretty hard life.

In the end, I can say I've learned a LOT about online transactions, and considering the transactions that I do are small, just to get rid of old parts out of my closet, I think it's going to be done. I'd rather just throw this stuff away then deal with "selling" it, then getting screwed out of the money I got, paying out of pocket for shipping it to the buyer, and to fight the charges, and also for 1-2 weeks of being stressed and feeling abused.

Karma's a bitch man. This scumbag will get what he deserves in the end.
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Very sorry to hear but I welcome you to the screw it, chuck it in the trash club. What really sealed the deal for me was a dispute on an item I sent gratis in the freebie thread. They did a paypal chargeback for the $2 I was sent for the postage because the item wasn't what they needed.
 
Gillbot said:
[...] What really sealed the deal for me was a dispute on an item I sent gratis in the freebie thread. They did a paypal chargeback for the $2 I was sent for the postage because the item wasn't what they needed.
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That's a truly appalling level of petty. It's also pretty pathetic.

I'll be honest with everyone here... my household income is right under double the official poverty line for one person under 65 (that would be $1k/mo per person) and I'm in a two-person household. The people who come up with that poverty line are a little disconnected from reality, because ~$1k/mo/person is nearly impossible. "Eating out" is Burger King, once a month, with a coupon. We are lucky as shit to even have our home still. (We fought the bank, and we won -- by the way, don't ever pick a fight with my mother, you will lose, because she fights to win. Primo example: Deutsche Bank lost the foreclosure suit. Mom did most of the work, because the lawyers we got were basically burnt out. Good thing Mom is a former lawyer herself!)

Yet, despite all that, I would never even *consider* doing a chargeback or a paypal claim for something like that. Even I can eat a $2 mistake.

More than that, though, what rubs me is the lack of responsibility on the part of the person doing that.

If I purchase an item and it gets here and it's not what I need -- that's my damn fault because I didn't do enough research to know what I needed and to verify that what I was buying was in fact the thing I needed to buy. If I don't do my homework, and I screw myself in failing to do that -- that's on me. One hundred percent. There is no getting around that.

Now get off my lawn :p
 
Its truly unfortunate what happened, and how a few people can ruin it for everyone else. I've bought and sold on here and have been fortunate to have good experiences on both sides of the fence. But to be honest with the recent issues it makes me want to think twice about trading/selling/buying online at all.
 
Wow, the nerve of some people. I am really glad that I read this today. I just finished building a "new to me" computer consisting of parts that I purchased from various members here. Fortunately, all of my purchases worked out flawlessly.

I was considering parting out my old rig and selling the parts here. I think after reading this I will just keep it together and re-purpose it and save myself the agony..................

OP, I am sorry that you have been through this hell. Thank you for sharing.

Fish :cool:
 
Bitcoin is great for a trusted seller.
No charge-backs on that one. No counterfeits. Fast payments.
 
I wish I'd seen this thread earlier. He pulled a chargeback on PayPal for $50 for two transactions I made with him a month ago.
 
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