Untangle Appliances NG-50F Start to a Review - PICS!!

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marley1

Supreme [H]ardness
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So end of year came and I got a few jobs that I needed a firewall/UTM device. I haven't used Untangle at any of my clients because I didn't feel confortable selling a machine I built from Newegg to the end user and being responsible for warranty work from many providers. So I started talking with Jim @ Untangle Appliances.

I have a client that has two offices and needed a good secure VPN solution for 25 field laptops. I looked at some offerings from a dedicated VPN device and couldn't find something that would fit the budget. I decided OpenVPN would be great at this, and to also create a Site to Site between the other office. I decided I might as well go UTM and get the extra features into the network to protect them. So that got me to order 2 NG-25 units. I then had a client that wanted web filtering and better protection, so that got me the 3rd NG-25, and then I just needed a UTM router to install at a lawyers office, the 4th NG-25. These are not NG-25, Jim had a manufacturing delay on the NG-25 and decided to send me the NG-50F units. I got one today and dediced I would open her up and take a peak.

So first off, great construction, heavy metal, smaller foot print then I imagined. You can see the comparison with my Droid X on top or with the Sonicwall TZ180 above it.

Spec wise we have a Atom D510, 1GB, 30GB SSD, CF for disaster recovery, 6 Intel Nics. We have a locking power connector on the back and VGA and USB. Note the VGA cutout is a little rough, the vendor didn't stamp the metal so Jim had to dremel it. The next run should be corrected. Unit comes shipped in a thick box, in a styrofoam casing, a red network cable, console cable, and power cord.

The unit is silent, the only way I knew it was on was with the orange light and the beep I heard when it started. You have diagnostic lights on the front, and even putting ear up to the fanless model I hear nothing. Once you plug in the power it starts to boot. Took about ~ 2 minutes to boot up, and you get into the default Untangle screen, version 8 is pre loaded and the standard apps are loaded.

More to come once I configure for the client and start messing with it.

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Ooooooo! I so want one of those to play with but I cannot convince anyone else to buy one. Yet. :D
 
Build quality looks excellent, and the price seems very competitive. Did he mention the warranty options?
 
Default is 1 year, I believe has a 3 year warranty option but not sure on cost.
 
looks like a sharp piece of hardware, let us know how it goes!

queue dashpuppy fapping all over this thread in 3..2..1..
 
Looks pretty skippy. I just tossed together an untangle box myself, and didn't spend less than one of those.
 
can you post a pic of the external power adapter?

Hate it when the device is tiny, and then the power adapter is about the same size.
 
yeah i spoke with Jim about a month ago, yeah there was a manufacturing delay for the NG-25. I've actually already ordered 7 NG-25's from him..i guess they are back ordered.

I also, ordered a NG-100 and NG-500 from JIm as well, still waiting on those to arrive. Jim seemed very nice, very smart, and i look forward to buying more devices from him in the future.

Also, JIm has a business partner out in Arizona that sells the untangle devices as well.

Also, I was told that untangle.com is going to be selling these appliances on their site as well, But, the hardware is coming directly from untangleappliances.com..so it looks like untangle themselves are impressed with their work
 
There was a manufacturing delay. We are receiving 15 units on Friday. So your order will ship early next week. The NG 100's and 500 show as delivered. Please check your PM box for info. If there is a problem contact me at 724-237-2277
 
Proactivens said:
There was a manufacturing delay. We are receiving 15 units on Friday. So your order will ship early next week. The NG 100's and 500 show as delivered. Please check your PM box for info. If there is a problem contact me at 724-237-2277
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PM sent back. thanks for sending that..... Jim is fast..Jim FTW
 
Nice MavsX. I think he found a new distributor for the NG-25. The power adapter is small, nice with the locking adapter.
 
zomg, another Untangle thread!!!111

Can I use Untangle to filter Untangle threads? I think I could create a custom Cisco IPS signature for repeated use of the word "Untangle" in HTTP responses to drop the traffic. Let me know if anyone is interested. :p
 
mattjw916 said:
zomg, another Untangle thread!!!111

Can I use Untangle to filter Untangle threads? I think I could create a custom Cisco IPS signature for repeated use of the word "Untangle" in HTTP responses to drop the traffic. Let me know if anyone is interested. :p
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You could do that, but then we might all ask you to make one to drop traffic for Cisco. :p
 
I'd like to take a third option and write some rules for Squid that will block Untangle _and_ Cisco threads.

My understanding is that Cisco and Untangle specialize in IP (and in Cisco's case, Ethernet/WAN/Telephony equipment) networking hardware. I was not aware that they were a religion as well.
 
Lets try to keep the thread on point. Will post results hopefully next week.
 
I would very much like to see your review. Maybe one of these days I'll find a client who needs more than a small UTM appliance. :)

A while back I debated deploying the NG25, but the cost was too high. I ended up deploying a R210 with all the goodies for less than the NG25. If Untangle Appliances can get the price down to under $500.00 for one of those little devices I'll be the first to line up and buy one (if not two or three).
 
Striker109 said:
I would very much like to see your review. Maybe one of these days I'll find a client who needs more than a small UTM appliance. :)

A while back I debated deploying the NG25, but the cost was too high. I ended up deploying a R210 with all the goodies for less than the NG25. If Untangle Appliances can get the price down to under $500.00 for one of those little devices I'll be the first to line up and buy one (if not two or three).
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That was my issue too, it was over 500$ + and i couldn't justify it, and it would be hard to sell to my clients.

Nice unit, just a bit pricy at this time!
 
x86 is just too expensive to custom manufacture for. All your astaro and like appliances that are sub $500 are all run off ARM type processors. We cant run Untangle off an ARM or cadvium, so were out of luck.
 
Proactivens said:
x86 is just too expensive to custom manufacture for. All your astaro and like appliances that are sub $500 are all run off ARM type processors. We cant run Untangle off an ARM or cadvium, so were out of luck.
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astaro uses intel cpu's.
 
not in their 110 and 120 appliances. I believe they use single core celerons in their 220 and 320 appliances. The ASG 425 is the model where they start referencing "multi-core" cpu in their technical information part of the website.
 
The Astaro 110/120 uses a VIA C7 CPU (which is a x86 processor). This has been confirmed on their community message board.
 
Striker109 said:
I would very much like to see your review. Maybe one of these days I'll find a client who needs more than a small UTM appliance. :)

A while back I debated deploying the NG25, but the cost was too high. I ended up deploying a R210 with all the goodies for less than the NG25. If Untangle Appliances can get the price down to under $500.00 for one of those little devices I'll be the first to line up and buy one (if not two or three).
Click to expand...

I will say a cheap dell server can be useful for things like this.

Anyway Dan I'm semi interested in these once you have had more time to mess with them.

Also kinda susprised to see you with a sonicwall sitting on your desk. I know you have expressed that you are not a big fan of them.
 
swatbat said:
I will say a cheap dell server can be useful for things like this.

Anyway Dan I'm semi interested in these once you have had more time to mess with them.

Also kinda susprised to see you with a sonicwall sitting on your desk. I know you have expressed that you are not a big fan of them.
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or scrap pieces to build one, 1000gbit nic's are 20$ cpu's are cheap mini atx boards are cheap too.

I built mine with all free parts except the nic's & case Free cor2 duo dual core 2 gigs ram norco 2u case and 2 intel g-bit pci NICS.

80gig hdd free too!

Running strong even till this day.
 
The things to remember, when people are trying to compare this to an ultra budget server...

*Small, this appliance is properly router/switch sized, not a gigantic pizza box like a 1U server such as a Smell r210. Many clients of ours...smaller businesses, where would you stick a full sized 1u server? Now where can you place a smaller unit like these NG units?

*Lower power consumption...savings over time

*Noise...you can place one of these NG appliances near people, in a nice office environment. One of those full sized servers...gotta stick it out back or in a closet or something..where the airport like noise won't bother people

*Built in 5 port LAN ports....and Intel based. Gives you more flexibility in setting up your LAN..such as one client I'll be using one for...plug in 2 access points...1 for main office, and 1 for guests....that cannot access main LAN.

*SSD instead of HDD, longer and more problem free life expectancy.

A long time ago, back in the earlier days of Untangle, on their forums a lot of us Untangle resellers were expressing the desire for a smaller unit...more "router/switch size". I specifically mentioned a few times something just like a Linksys/Cisco RV0 series....small, and multiple LAN ports. Lo and behold....look at the NG series!
 
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I dunno how they are selling R210 so cheap, retail for cheapest I thought was 750...and if selling at premier pricing then where is the profit? From a consultant end I sell products and servic, too busy to develop a unit. Parts alone for a Atom unit cost about you like 400 not including research time and build and install.

I will be setting up one hopefully next week.

chris I still hate sonicwall only in office from being pulled from another job
 
The R210 is starting at 499 on a special for a while...but the starting configuration sure isn't "server grade"...you get a Celery processor, 1 gig of RAM, single basic SATA drive, and a single Broadcom NIC.

Spec it out properly to more standard server specs....up the processor, put in a pair of Intel NICs, and an enterprise HDD...and now we're equal in price...and the NG logically becomes the better deal.
 
marley1 said:
I dunno how they are selling R210 so cheap, retail for cheapest I thought was 750...and if selling at premier pricing then where is the profit? From a consultant end I sell products and servic, too busy to develop a unit. Parts alone for a Atom unit cost about you like 400 not including research time and build and install.

I will be setting up one hopefully next week.

chris I still hate sonicwall only in office from being pulled from another job
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I take donations.....

Yea I agree with you on building your own stuff. I've built a bunch of captive portals over the years using parts from logic supply. Reason was that I couldn't find exactly what I wanted. When possible though I'd much rather go with a well designed product ready for the job. For a standard small business one of these appliances looks a lot better then a 1u server unless they have a server rack somewhere.

I just wish untangle was a little better on their service pricing.
 
I use Dell r210's, typically get them off of outlet for $500-$700.

Last one I deployed runs esxi and has UT+win2k3 box on it.
 
YeOldeStonecat said:
A long time ago, back in the earlier days of Untangle, on their forums a lot of us Untangle resellers were expressing the desire for a smaller unit...more "router/switch size". I specifically mentioned a few times something just like a Linksys/Cisco RV0 series....small, and multiple LAN ports. Lo and behold....look at the NG series!
Click to expand...

Don't get me wrong I think the NG series is an excellent product. However, trying to convince a client to opt for it over a R210 is hard when you show them the price difference. If it were in the $500.00 range I could sell them all day long.


marley1 said:
I dunno how they are selling R210 so cheap, retail for cheapest I thought was 750...and if selling at premier pricing then where is the profit?
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I guess it all depends on your representative. I deal with the medium business division so they usually have more leeway when it comes to discounts.


YeOldeStonecat said:
Spec it out properly to more standard server specs....up the processor, put in a pair of Intel NICs, and an enterprise HDD...and now we're equal in price...and the NG logically becomes the better deal.
Click to expand...

The problem with that statement is most small businesses don't have a need for all that extra hardware. The R210 already comes with two NICs and is backed by a 3 year warranty. If the hard drive goes out just drop in another SATA to get you by until Dell replaces it.

A R210 configured with a Xeon 3430 CPU, 2 gigabytes of RAM, 250 gb hard drive, and a 3 year warranty for 600.00 (or less) is a good deal and cheaper than the NG25. I would personally love to spec out the NG25 as the base model for all my installations, but my clients balk at spending that much money. That is of course if I can even convince them to deploy a UTM device instead of a basic firewall. In this economy my clients are looking at the bottom line more now than ever. It's tough out there. ;)
 
yeah if the currently have a rack guess it makes sense, if not added cost for that. But again you are talking premier pricing, so you are giving the product at a lower then dell.com. where is the profit? If you go at dell.com price that should be sold for $7xx

only other way I would do is a sff optiplex add nic, but then could have incompatibility issues.
 
marley1 said:
yeah if the currently have a rack guess it makes sense, if not added cost for that. But again you are talking premier pricing, so you are giving the product at a lower then dell.com. where is the profit?
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I don't profit off hardware. I almost always setup a Dell credit account through my representative for that client. I order hardware on behalf of the client and it is charged to them. This also allows the client to order anything they want from Dell and I don't have to be around to do it. My money is made from installing and configuring the hardware and software ordered.
 
Striker109 said:
I don't profit off hardware. I almost always setup a Dell credit account through my representative for that client. I order hardware on behalf of the client and it is charged to them. This also allows the client to order anything they want from Dell and I don't have to be around to do it. My money is made from installing and configuring the hardware and software ordered.
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This is exactly what i do, i don't do any mark up on hardware, i charge customer my price + shipping & HST, they all know it. I make my money configuring and installing, to witch they see my quote, some times it goes by faster some times it takes longer.
 
Striker109 said:
Don't get me wrong I think the NG series is an excellent product. However, trying to convince a client to opt for it over a R210 is hard when you show them the price difference. If it were in the $500.00 range I could sell them all day long.

The problem with that statement is most small businesses don't have a need for all that extra hardware. The R210 already comes with two NICs and is backed by a 3 year warranty. If the hard drive goes out just drop in another SATA to get you by until Dell replaces it.

A R210 configured with a Xeon 3430 CPU, 2 gigabytes of RAM, 250 gb hard drive, and a 3 year warranty for 600.00 (or less) is a good deal and cheaper than the NG25. I would personally love to spec out the NG25 as the base model for all my installations, but my clients balk at spending that much money. That is of course if I can even convince them to deploy a UTM device instead of a basic firewall. In this economy my clients are looking at the bottom line more now than ever. It's tough out there. ;)
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That's where you must first educate yourself as to which is better, and then educate your clients. And then cultivate your clients so that you have more which allow you to trust you and put in what's best for the the job. The uber cheap clients that try to beat you up on prices....I don't want those clients wasting my time, I go for the clients that trust me, and allow me to control their IT..they know I recommend what's best for them.

Once you configure that Dell with a decent processor, upgraded RAM, and Intel NICs...we're not longer talking about a 150 dollar price different, we're talking about...nearly equal, or 50 bucks at most. Are you including rails in there for the price? Don't forget the power cord.

Lets say we get the price difference down to 100 bucks...the Dell being still 100 bucks less (even though I know once it's configured properly it's nearly identicle. Think about the savings of the NG in monthly electricity, versus a Xeon powered Dell server. probably 30 bucks a month less in juice...several months go by, oooh....the NG has lower long term costs. ;)

And the reliability of an enterprise grade drive is important for a firewall, talk to a client about the cost of lost business for 1x day until you got a replacement in there due to drive failure and they won't have a problem paying for reliability. The Dell R200's that I used Untangle on in the past, I always did hardware RAID 1. I'd not use a single SATA drive for a firewall unless it was an enterprise drive like a WD RE3 or a Seagate ES class.
 
dashpuppy said:
This is exactly what i do, i don't do any mark up on hardware, i charge customer my price + shipping & HST, they all know it. I make my money configuring and installing, to witch they see my quote, some times it goes by faster some times it takes longer.
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I make money of of reselling Dell..why not? You're sitting there spending time looking at Dells site configuring it. I charge what Dell has on their public website for prices...once I configure the hardware to my specs. I then submit the cart to my Dell rep, and he spits back what I pay for it...the difference is my GP.
 
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