Unreal Engine 5 Revealed! Running real time on Playstation 5

polonyc2 said:
so the future is now Lumen and Quixel?...I thought the future was tessellation?...then the future became photogrammetry...Vulkan...then ray-tracing
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Those are just engine names. Tessellation was a way to put back in real time what the developers removed in terms of triangle count in order to enable their game to not run like crap. It seems like hardware and engines have arrived at post tessellation... where the engine and hardware will now dynamically remove the triangles you don't need. Its basically anti tessellation. lol

Really though this just halved the work most modelers have been doing. Model out your wicked cool bajillion billion poly asset.... and forget about building out a game optimized version that looks 90% as good. The team just uses your wicked cool massive model and lets the game engine dynamically carve it up. Its pretty crazy.... I mean this video is marketing and I still find it hard to believe game developers won't try and optimize their assets at least a little. If it really does work perfectly though ya its industry changing stuff.
 
Marees said:
This is 1440p 30fps on PS5

When you play this on 3080ti then, with DLSS 3.0, you should be able to play at 4k 120fps
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That's not true unless he wants lesser quality, epic here used their own special sauce up sampler algorithm based on temporal data and if you read or watch the digital foundry video you will see that it "defies pixel counting efforts" even when looking at actual raw PNG files of the 4k output, the reason for this being better than dlss is simple, it is in engine so it has access to all kinds of buffers that the engine uses to create the scene very specially it has access to the velocity buffer so it doesn't have to guess in which direction is everything going the next frame while Nvidia's dlss has to work only with the already finalized image so it has a vastly incomplete amount of data.

What you may be able to do is indeed use internally a higher than 1440p resolution with the same in engine temporal upsampler producing also a 2160**p with slightly more small detail definitions. Or maybe instead increase the speed if the total system allows it, we may need to pair back a bit of the details of the quixel scans or the models or the textures not because of the gpu but maybe due to the slight difference in the storage and i/o stack (although this could potentially change as usual just give it a bit more time and with advancements pc can go above and beyond with raw strength)


** edit, wrote 1440p when it was 4k aka 2160p which is the output of the upsampler. Also a theoretical 3080ti could potentially upscale beyond 4k since the initial internal resolution would be better, this completes the usual pc trade-off of choice by the user, higher speed, higher resolution or higher details and stability at same resolution.
 
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Looks great, but I've been pretty torn on UE4 games. Stuff like PUBG looks like shit and stutters like crazy. Have to run all low to get high FPS even on a high end system. I know other UE4 games have better implementations and PUBG is probably an outlier. I have been a huge fan of the tomb raider games and this looks really cool. Though hard to say if it really looks any better than shadow of the tomb raider, which already looks amazing.
 
I'm also rather skeptical of anything Epic does these days, since their meddling with the Epic Store. I really wish Epic had stayed focused on their engine instead of getting into the rest. For all the supposed cross-platform benefits of Unreal Engine 4, it seems that all platforms are not exactly supported equally and I worry nothing will change with UE5. Linux (and to a lesser extent, Mac) is not given the same kind of support in UE and all of its related tools. I've not looked at the particulars for awhile so some things may certainly be updated, but between UE being used as a first step toward luring others to the Epic Store, the overall hostility of EGS toward non-Windows OS especially Linux (not simply comments by Epic management, but the lack of a Linux client for EGS, and perhaps worst of all refusing to offer the Linux version of games that otherwise support the OS when available via other stores - Slime Rancher is one example) , Epic's acquisition of Easy Anti Cheat which neither supports Linux natively thus keeping games that use it from being ported and worse, continuing to treat those who attempt to play them with Wine / Proton as hostile/cheaters despite pleas from players and in some cases developers alike, I can't be very optimistic about UE5.

I have no doubt that UE5 will look good and likely be monetized in a way making it very attractive to publishers, but nice tech demos don't make up for some pretty horrid policies that, in my opinion, have a negative effect on PC gaming as a whole. I hope that they will change course, but seeing what we've seen thus far, its hard for me to see UE5 and Epic higher ups praising the PS5 - another proprietary, locked down console - as though its something unique and special above the PC (claims that, as others here have postulated are tenuous at best) and not be even more concerned how this could be used to pull PC gaming even farther down the wrong path.
 
elite.mafia said:
Looks great, but I've been pretty torn on UE4 games. Stuff like PUBG looks like shit and stutters like crazy. Have to run all low to get high FPS even on a high end system. I know other UE4 games have better implementations and PUBG is probably an outlier. I have been a huge fan of the tomb raider games and this looks really cool. Though hard to say if it really looks any better than shadow of the tomb raider, which already looks amazing.
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PUBG sounds a lot like ARK...
Unreal engine 5 would be great for remakes of these games!
 
Mchart said:
Epic has no reason to lie here in my opinion because devs would find out fast if they were.
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If I remember Jensen unveiled the Gigaray speech and then demod the SW scene live claiming a single GPU did this, when in fact it was rendered on a DGI rig.
 
elite.mafia said:
Looks great, but I've been pretty torn on UE4 games. Stuff like PUBG looks like shit and stutters like crazy. Have to run all low to get high FPS even on a high end system. I know other UE4 games have better implementations and PUBG is probably an outlier. I have been a huge fan of the tomb raider games and this looks really cool. Though hard to say if it really looks any better than shadow of the tomb raider, which already looks amazing.
Click to expand...

PUBG is definitely an outlier. The devs were trying to do something hard and complicated and didn't know what they were doing. You can compare what they did in PUBG to Fortnite which was made by Epic themselves and easily runs at very high framerates. Thousands of games use Unreal Engine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unreal_Engine_games
 
sharknice said:
PUBG is definitely an outlier. The devs were trying to do something hard and complicated and didn't know what they were doing. You can compare what they did in PUBG to Fortnite which was made by Epic themselves and easily runs at very high framerates. Thousands of games use Unreal Engine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unreal_Engine_games
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Fortnite also has much more basic cartoony graphics, and the maps I believe are a lot smaller. But yeah, the devs of that game are a bit... shit.
 
It's not the engine. PUBG was just shoddy optimization.

I tried playing it when it came out and I couldn't even get 60 fps on medium settings 1080p with a Titan X Pascal. Not even worth it.

Look at some of the AAA games using Unreal. They look amazing and can be well optimized, like Hellblade.
 
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Mchart said:
Epic has no reason to lie here in my opinion because devs would find out fast if they were.
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There's an unwritten rule that devs don't badmouth industry partners, so devs finding out something isn't living up to marketing claims doesn't mean we'd ever know about it.

I hear all kinds of gripes and dirty laundry internally at a major game dev, but it's nothing that anyone is going to stick their neck out and put on blast on Twitter - there's no upside and there are potential legal ramifications as well.

That said, this looks pretty great - any innovation at all is still the right direction, even if it's going to need more iterations to reach peak performance.
 
elite.mafia said:
Looks great, but I've been pretty torn on UE4 games. Stuff like PUBG looks like shit and stutters like crazy. Have to run all low to get high FPS even on a high end system. I know other UE4 games have better implementations and PUBG is probably an outlier. I have been a huge fan of the tomb raider games and this looks really cool. Though hard to say if it really looks any better than shadow of the tomb raider, which already looks amazing.
Click to expand...

As much as it would be cool, you just can't load UE and press a "make me a game button" and have a perfect game come out. You still need an army of developers who know what they're doing. PUBG was clearly made by armatures who were not experienced in game design and it shows. UE is supposed to be fairly easy as far as games go, and has good support from Epic. Game engines are about making things easier and simpler to do. The tech wasn't just showing off eye candy, but how it in theory will be easier to obtain said level of eye candy with less time and more ease.
 
A game like PUBG is where UE5 should theoretically shine for developers. Instead of understanding how to optimize for a certain engine, and generally understanding how to do long distance LOD tricks - A developer theoretically only needs to work with the same art, put it in, and the engine handles everything concerning LOD. So a game with inexperienced developers like PUBG would run out of the box great.

Obviously, there will still be optimization tricks, but the fact that devs won't need to waste time making multiple versions of the same assets is a huge deal.
 
odditory said:
There's an unwritten rule that devs don't badmouth industry partners, so devs finding out something isn't living up to marketing claims doesn't mean we'd ever know about it.

I hear all kinds of gripes and dirty laundry internally at a major game dev, but it's nothing that anyone is going to stick their neck out and put on blast on Twitter - there's no upside and there are potential legal ramifications as well.

...
Click to expand...

It's time to use your position here of relative anonymity to relay what those people have aired within your earshot. No one need know the devs involved, just the gossip. Spill it!
 
https://mobile.twitter.com/Byooler/status/1260983582115467264

This is one of the engineers that worked on the demo explaining that the squeeze was not to mask loading times, they wanted to show the assets going fluidly from far to up close, and the changes in sound and context aware animation. They were initially scared of loading because exactly they didn't believe Sony but it really was not an issue.
 
Revdarian said:
https://mobile.twitter.com/Byooler/status/1260983582115467264

This is one of the engineers that worked on the demo explaining that the squeeze was not to mask loading times, they wanted to show the assets going fluidly from far to up close, and the changes in sound and context aware animation. They were initially scared of loading because exactly they didn't believe Sony but it really was not an issue.
Click to expand...

You'd think people would realize Epic wasn't worried about loading when it filled a room with legions of statues that amounted to billions of pixels, or showed a complicated environment stretching several hundred feet. Some people are just desperate to be the "gotcha!" type.
 
Yeah, Tim Sweeney has been under PCMR attacks on Twitter and had to explain that current ssd speeds on pc are theoretical and only up to a certain point, then they need to pass through software decompression, the hardware stack is less direct to system memory /video memory and the associated latency is much bigger.


https://mobile.twitter.com/TimSween...iframe/2/twitter.min.html#1260984437862432769

Yes, pc is slower in this one specific case, unavoidably so, but PCMR needs to focus back on the strength of their platform of choice, that's, it is more than just for gaming. (Also moddable).
 
Revdarian said:
Yeah, Tim Sweeney has been under PCMR attacks on Twitter and had to explain that current ssd speeds on pc are theoretical and only up to a certain point, then they need to pass through software decompression, the hardware stack is less direct to system memory /video memory and the associated latency is much bigger.


https://mobile.twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/1260984437862432769?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1260984437862432769&ref_url=https://s9e.github.io/iframe/2/twitter.min.html#1260984437862432769

Yes, pc is slower in this one specific case, unavoidably so, but PCMR needs to focus back on the strength of their platform of choice, that's, it is more than just for gaming. (Also moddable).
Click to expand...

Considering games fully utilizing UE5 features won't be available until 2022, PC will be more than ready by then.
 
polonyc2 said:
so the future is now Lumen and Quixel?...I thought the future was tessellation?...then the future became photogrammetry...Vulkan...then ray-tracing
Click to expand...

The future is photogrammetry, the problem is the workflow on it is absolutely shit, plus you can't actually render the detail that you get (see all the nonsense with Euclideon vs reality), it generally gets turned into a low quality mesh that takes ages to clean up and doesn't texture easily. They're basically saying they have answers to that problem. If we really can just scan / image to dot point and import, you don't need meshes because of the tiny polygons and the lighting solves the texturing fidelity issue. Holy crap. Would need some good middleware to make sure you can sort reflection properties of the import easily but my mind is blown at the possibilities.

Looks like fortnite giving Epic frightning amounts of money is gonna do some good :D
 
Revdarian said:
Yeah, Tim Sweeney has been under PCMR attacks on Twitter and had to explain that current ssd speeds on pc are theoretical and only up to a certain point, then they need to pass through software decompression, the hardware stack is less direct to system memory /video memory and the associated latency is much bigger.


https://mobile.twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/1260984437862432769?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1260984437862432769&ref_url=https://s9e.github.io/iframe/2/twitter.min.html#1260984437862432769

Yes, pc is slower in this one specific case, unavoidably so, but PCMR needs to focus back on the strength of their platform of choice, that's, it is more than just for gaming. (Also moddable).
Click to expand...

IO is even extra terrible on Windows under certain circumstances. Lots of small files is an obvious one.

One real world example that I've noticed is that if you've ever done web development, you're probably aware of the node_modules folder. My dog shit laptop running Linux manages to blow away the directory almost instantly. Meanwhile my Windows 10 desktop that's hilariously more powerful has to sit and fucking grind on it for like 40 seconds. Both are on SSDs and are working on the same project.

Every time I see it I always think "why the fuck is this still a problem" but here we are. I'm assuming it will never be solved because it's "good enough" for most cases as is. Not really a PC problem per se, but Windows is ultimately the dominant platform so...
 
Yeah, it's getting kind of old on Reddit mostly, PCMR folks can't fathom how PS5 might have an upper-hand for a moment.
 
JasonLD said:
Considering games fully utilizing UE5 features won't be available until 2022, PC will be more than ready by then.
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Yeah release is mid 2021, and it will take a while until the various systems are fully built. A lot of games need to do a lot of in house work as well to get their game concept to work on UE to. We probably won't see a game on UE5 until 2022 at the earliest, but probably closer to 2023. 2023 or later for most AAA titles.
 
Well Epic said the upgrade process from UE4 to UE5 is easy, so many games already using UE4 might be able to upgrade before launch.

That said, for a game that fully utilizes the software, yeah we could be talking years.
 
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cybereality said:
Yeah, it's getting kind of old on Reddit mostly, PCMR folks can't fathom how PS5 might have an upper-hand for a moment.
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I can imagine it, I just want to know how to compensate for it. How much faster would the ssd speeds need to be on pc to compensate for the structural differences in how the hardware is setup? I'm not above brute forcing a deficiency on top of taking advantage of the other areas where the pc is vastly superior.

And it would be useful to see real world examples. How large of a game world and distance level can be achieved with something like the PS5's hardware setup vs a high end gaming pc? I want to see the edge cases where the ps5 is pushed to the limits of its capability to see where the pc is lacking and has to be constrained, and then know if there was a straight forward way to get around that.
 
Well if it works as well as they claim, and PS5 is a success, I wouldn't be surprised if devs try to bring that over to PC.

Especially for the cross-platform games they will have to figure out something. Then you will see SSD speed as a min req.
 
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cybereality said:
Saw it this morning, I'm blown away.

This is the next-gen I was waiting for.
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Man... Ive been into PC gaming since the early days... and I havent genuinely been impressed with graphics in a long time. Seemed like every generation in the beginning added something crazy or everything took a massive step forward and then stagnated.

That demo was legit AF. Im not blown away but my eyes widened and I got a tickle in my pickle.
 
"You could render a version of this [demo on a system with an HDD], it would just be a lot lower detail," said Sweeney.

The idea behind UE5 is to let developers import the highest quality assets they have, and then automatically scale everything to fit the hardware being used, all the way down to phones.

If high-end graphics are your goal, however, this is another indication that an NVMe drive should be a must-have in your next build. It won't just be about how fast you can load a Rainbow Six Siege map, but about how detailed a scene can look.

https://www.pcgamer.com/fast-ssd-st...e-5-demos-super-detailed-scenes/#comment-jump
 
Marees said:
"You could render a version of this [demo on a system with an HDD], it would just be a lot lower detail," said Sweeney.

The idea behind UE5 is to let developers import the highest quality assets they have, and then automatically scale everything to fit the hardware being used, all the way down to phones.

If high-end graphics are your goal, however, this is another indication that an NVMe drive should be a must-have in your next build. It won't just be about how fast you can load a Rainbow Six Siege map, but about how detailed a scene can look.

https://www.pcgamer.com/fast-ssd-st...e-5-demos-super-detailed-scenes/#comment-jump
Click to expand...

If you wanted to play the game in PC with the same level of details but at double the frame rate (say 60 fps) would you need a SSD that is twice as fast as the one in PS5 ?
 
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Marees said:
"You could render a version of this [demo on a system with an HDD], it would just be a lot lower detail," said Sweeney.

The idea behind UE5 is to let developers import the highest quality assets they have, and then automatically scale everything to fit the hardware being used, all the way down to phones.

If high-end graphics are your goal, however, this is another indication that an NVMe drive should be a must-have in your next build. It won't just be about how fast you can load a Rainbow Six Siege map, but about how detailed a scene can look.

https://www.pcgamer.com/fast-ssd-st...e-5-demos-super-detailed-scenes/#comment-jump
Click to expand...

I think we're approaching that inflection point, it's going to increasingly come down to how quick you can feed the GPU beast, whether a i/o stream from your disk or the internet. Almost like a level 1, 2, 3 cache of gpu, local drive and remote

All the governments that said that 25mbit would be enough are going to be looking pretty silly I feel.
 
PhaseNoise said:
From a co-worker: "Will it make better pr0n?"

As with all new technology, I have to answer, sadly, "probably".
Click to expand...

Well yeah, natural looking skin is basically a lighting limitation so it should be doable.

UE5 engined Leisure Suit Larry anyone?
 
This might be the first console generation I pick up, since the PS2.... It won't ever surpass a 35" ultra wide experience, but for casual couch gaming at 1080p/~4k, I'm rather interested. Just need a 55" 4K screen that surpasses the blacks of a basically new panasonic ST plasma, before I consider that upgrade, though.

Sweeney's assertion that "Nothing on the PC approaches the PS5's level of storage access, at any price point" is absolute BS, though... From a technical standpoint, perhaps he's right. The SSD controller in the PS5, and the metal access between data assets and working memory might very well be unparalleled compared to most common gaming systems... But, by the PS5's launch, with better data access programming, and even current (expensive) solutions - that's clearly PS5 fanboyism. "Any price" includes a $4kUSD 700gb RAM drive that blows the access time/transfers of the PS5 out of the water... But I'm excited for engines to resolve assets from mass storage with better intelligence, compared to current systems.

The slowest online storage I currently have is a 3.47gbps NVME ssd, though, so... Like.. Cmon Tim. We're talking percentage points here.
 
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