I would guess that it is utilizing some ray tracing methods but they have internalized some optimizations for their implementation of it.
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Unreal Engine 5 Revealed! Running real time on Playstation 5
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OutOfPhase
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Also interesting - the royalty-free zone is now $1mill. That's a really nice way of making it a reasonably safe choice for smaller firms / titles who would be worried about engine costs for smaller efforts.
Well this does a lot to tackle that development time, I would assume that there isn’t a huge difference between 4 and 5 in terms of front end programming so it’s not like their developers are going to have to relearn everything just the new stuff. But I would guess there are far too many changes to the back end for them to call it an iteration of 4 with out slaughtering their support structures.
The PS5 SSD’s we’re clocked around 5.5GB/s, on PCIe 3 you are going to be in the mid 3’s. The top end PCIE 4 SSD’s are upwards of 7 GB/s but those aren’t cheap or plentiful by any means.
bigdogchris
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And I think Sony is requiring that speed. It's going to be intesting to see how it's implemented. If games are being designed for 5.5GB/s but someone slaps in a crappy SSD it obviously would drastically lower performance. I wonder if Sony will either be certifying specific part#'s and blocking non-certified, or doing some type of benchmarking before the drive can be enabled?
About the ps5 SSD remember that it has a couple tricks up its sleeve due to the system integration, it has natural compression support on the i/o that allows it to output 8-9 gbps of useful data instead of the 5.5 it is rated at, without the cost of cpu cycles.
Also due to the nature of videogames it has a file system optimized exclusively for reads so it is not playing in the same field as a "must do everything good enough" pc ssd //file system, just saying that for this particular job it is indeed quite a bit better than currently available for consumers but that's the point of specializations, not magic just extra add-ons for one particular task at hand
Also due to the nature of videogames it has a file system optimized exclusively for reads so it is not playing in the same field as a "must do everything good enough" pc ssd //file system, just saying that for this particular job it is indeed quite a bit better than currently available for consumers but that's the point of specializations, not magic just extra add-ons for one particular task at hand
sharknice
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I'm guessing it's mostly the same as UE4 but with certain things removed and certain things added so it is no longer compatible with UE4.
They got rid of all the old lighting options and only have global illumination. Some of the features might not be able to scale down enough to run on old hardware.
Euro Gamer said that this is without any raytracing effects
The stones falling on the head with 3d audio effects. I am not sure I want to play this !!!
pendragon1
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enviro looks great, character looks great but together they look off. the character looks off when interacting with the enviro, looked like a game character in a real world, stood out too much. imo.
What drives from a decade ago were capable of 5.5GB/s? Also, current consumer drives top out at 5GB/s (unless there's a faster one I haven't run across).
I think there are will be a test once installed to verify if it is capable. If it fails it will not allow to use it. Sony is supposedly going to release a lost of approved drives once they start becoming available. Currently there isn't any consumer drives available that meets the specs. They are going to be expensive drives I am sure. I hope their compression tech and optimization significantly reduce game sizes cause 800gb isn't enough when games are reaching 100gb now.
There’s some further differences for the PS5 however. Namely the controller allowing 6 levels of priority (I believe it was priority) compared to the typical 1-2 on consumer SSDs.
As it is the PS5 is at 5.5GB/s throughput which is quite high, and considering current PCI 4 nvme drives are hitting around 5GB/s it’s still faster. The spec does however go up to 7GB/s is my understanding. For once it kind of makes sense for Sony to be vetting drives for use in the PS5 rather than just saying put it whatever fits.
As per Eurogamer some form of Temporal aliasing is used for Lumen effect. Also dynamic scaling is used while playing in PS5. The scenes go as low as 1440p at 30fps
Archaea
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A RAID array of Fusion IO drives would get you there, or reasonably close enough.
2011 -
https://www.storagereview.com/review/fusion-io-iodrive-duo-review-640gb
2013 - (5.8GBps benchmarked RAID 0 array)
https://www.storagereview.com/review/fusion-io-ion-data-accelerator-review
2014 - RAID 0 pair
https://www.storagereview.com/review/fusion-iomemory-sx300-review
I'm sure this wasn't the fastest stuff - it's just what I'm familiar with because I own a 3.2TB one that I picked up in the last six months for $200. Which by the way these drives are $200-$250 on ebay now - as enterprise datacenters decom them, and they offer a heck of a price/performance pang for buck for a game drive for even a 2020 enthusiast. IE for $400 you can get a 6.4TB Fusion IO drive with 2600MB/s read/write speeds. These were $10-$15k new, and have 20PB endurance ratings. Mine came with 97% life remaining.
https://hardforum.com/threads/3-2tb-ssd-for-240.1991865/
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That's RAID, not a single drive.
Archaea
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What will be of interest to me here is that the Xbox Series X will have half the drive speed - clicked in the 2-3GB/s range, but a bit faster GPU and CPU clock. I suspect that the Xbox Series X drive is fast enough - and we'll see overall better performance out of the Xbox. Drive speed has never really mattered that much for gaming. Once you got to SSD you were pretty much golden. The difference between playing a modern PC game on a last gen SSD with 500MB/s and a brand new fourth gen SSD is frankly pretty much 'meh'. I'll be curious to see what Sony can do with it that makes it go from Meh to Wow! Especially telling will be the delta between the two consoles on a identical game.
Archaea
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No enthusiast or datacenter runs RAID? So that disqualifies it?
What about SLI or Crossfire? That disqualified too for benchmarking and performance testing?
No enthusiast or datacenter runs RAID? So that disqualifies it?
What about SLI or Crossfire? That disqualified too for benchmarking and performance testing?
When you're trying to downplay how fast a single drive is by claiming SSDs from a decade ago could reach it then, yes, using multiple SSDs to reach that disqualifies the claim.
Go read what game developers have said, drive speed matters, the games you have gotten up to now have all been constrained by slow hdd that's why "it only matters when loading", and like I said in this very thread, Star Citizen is the first pc game shunning HDDs, on a HDD it stutters since the asset streaming can't keep up, on a sata SSD it smooths out, now imagine that the minimum isn't a SATA SSD but the decompressed output of the XSX at 4.8gbps, it isn't only asset quality, it is variety, shape of the visible world, length of it, speed at which you can travel, etc etc.
sabrewolf732
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Afaik, Sony is doing some fancy pants compression work with dedicated processors an approaching near 10GB/s which is twice what mainstream nvme pci-e 4.0 drives push
Also, pci-e and even nvme drives are not mainstream. Developers have not been developing with high speed storage in mind, that's changing due to the accessibility of consoles.
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5150Joker
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Fastest consumer NVME drive I know of is the Sabrent Rocket, which just hits 5 using PCIE 4, but on paper the PCIE 4 spec tops out in the 7's but Sony has stated a number of times they are using a custom interface so not necessarily following the PCIE 4 or 5 specifications, and they are running all sorts of compression algorithms and fancy tricks to make that memory as fast as they can. I haven't been super interested in consoles in a while but this one is catching my interest.
Rockenrooster
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Holy crap! thanks for that!
3.2TB for $200!!!!!!!!!!!
Mchart
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That outdoor portion near the end was incredible.
Can't wait to see the same thing running on a PC with a higher end CPU & high end GPU. The fact that developers won't need to really waste time creating different assets for different quality levels means that as hardware gets better older games developed on this engine should have scale in quality improvement as well if the developer isn't concerned with storage space.
PC's finally won't be held back by console development as time moves on now like it is currently where the graphics really only get better with each major console release.
This also means the console could likely be updated more often and run existing titles better without those titles needing to be updated and users would see a quality improvement.
Finally, this really calls into question the short/mid-term need for raytracing from what I can see. It should still be a long term goal, but the biggest selling point of raytracing currently, the dynamic global illumination, is pretty much made irrelevant with the technology here.
Can't wait to see the same thing running on a PC with a higher end CPU & high end GPU. The fact that developers won't need to really waste time creating different assets for different quality levels means that as hardware gets better older games developed on this engine should have scale in quality improvement as well if the developer isn't concerned with storage space.
PC's finally won't be held back by console development as time moves on now like it is currently where the graphics really only get better with each major console release.
This also means the console could likely be updated more often and run existing titles better without those titles needing to be updated and users would see a quality improvement.
Finally, this really calls into question the short/mid-term need for raytracing from what I can see. It should still be a long term goal, but the biggest selling point of raytracing currently, the dynamic global illumination, is pretty much made irrelevant with the technology here.
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Yeah that stuff was pretty interesting stuff, I remember working with it, it did what it was supposed to well enough but keeping data in sync in the raid arrays were difficult, it was faster than a lot of the CPU's trying to coordinate it so if the machine got busy trying to do something else for whatever reason it would lose sync and you would get corrupted data but yeah it was the fastest thing you could get your hands on at the time.
About the ps5 SSD remember that it has a couple tricks up its sleeve due to the system integration, it has natural compression support on the i/o that allows it to output 8-9 gbps of useful data instead of the 5.5 it is rated at, without the cost of cpu cycles.
Also due to the nature of videogames it has a file system optimized exclusively for reads so it is not playing in the same field as a "must do everything good enough" pc ssd //file system, just saying that for this particular job it is indeed quite a bit better than currently available for consumers but that's the point of specializations, not magic just extra add-ons for one particular task at hand
This makes me wonder how hard it would be (or what would be needed) to accomplish the same on a pc.
Could MB makers have custom Motherboards with a special m.2 nvme ssd slot for specialized ssd drives that were optimized in a similar manner? Same with the MB maker installing the same sorts of i/o compression support on the MB so that it too can effectively double the bandwidth with no hit to performance? Would windows need to be updated? The cpu/gpu makers?
And in fact, can't they do the same thing for some specialized hybrid system/gpu memory? Where the cpu and gpu would not only have access to their standard system and direct gpu memory pools, but a shared pool where information did not have to shift around for improvements? Or is all that just not worth it?
I don't want consoles to have an edge anywhere.
Yes but, the only reason it works as well as it does is because of the insane read speeds from the HDD containing all that data. If I understand how this is working much of that magic is being done in advance by their quixil software in conjunction with lumen, it doesn't at all detract from the technical feat but I am not sure there is enough data shared here to say it is or isn't "Ray Tracing" it very well may not be Ray Traced in the technical sense but it very well could be using what ever version of what ATI has called their equivalent of the Tensor Core. There is some sort of graphical voodoo going on here and it is wicked impressive, but I would not hold out hope for anything of this detail or quality on something that doesn't have nVidia's RTX or AMD's RDNA2 toys cooked into it.
defaultluser
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About the ps5 SSD remember that it has a couple tricks up its sleeve due to the system integration, it has natural compression support on the i/o that allows it to output 8-9 gbps of useful data instead of the 5.5 it is rated at, without the cost of cpu cycles.
Also due to the nature of videogames it has a file system optimized exclusively for reads so it is not playing in the same field as a "must do everything good enough" pc ssd //file system, just saying that for this particular job it is indeed quite a bit better than currently available for consumers but that's the point of specializations, not magic just extra add-ons for one particular task at hand
You know we've had real-time compression SSD controllers for as decade now, right?
https://www.kingston.com/us/company/press/article/40478
They weren't very fast for accessing already-compressed data , so they didn't make much headway against Samsung SSDs. But they were amazingly fast at mixed data loads.
Unfortunately, most of the large data stored on a computer is already heavily-compressed.
Game designers are way lazier about compressing their assets stored on BluRay, so there's a corner-case for game loads.
If game reads become a priority for most SSD buyers, real-time compression could make a comeback. But It's a corner case (and it's effectiveness really depends on how lazy the game designer is)
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A decade ago we were using ramdrives but it was completely useless at the time for me so I stopped pretty quickly.
You can with Intel's Optane setups, they were getting those speeds on PCIe3 or darned close too it, once they start getting their PCIe4 stuff out the door I would guess it should match or beat it. They may be skipping 4 for 5 however because of their fab issues.
if that's what it looks like on a PS5 then I'm really impressed...how much better can it look on PC...for many the differences might not even matter
the end of that demo with the character flying around that crumbling city was stunning...the lighting, textures etc were truly jawdropping
the end of that demo with the character flying around that crumbling city was stunning...the lighting, textures etc were truly jawdropping
OutOfPhase
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Honestly, I'm mostly interested in the improvements to GI. Abusing poly counts and / or textures has a sharp level of diminishing returns. You give that scene they mention which has Eleventy Billion polygons to a developer right now and they will produce something visually indistinguishable - with orders of magnitude fewer polygons and intelligent normal mapping.
I'm not pooping on the tech at all, quite the opposite - I get that the point is that asset makers might theoretically be able to skip that step in favor of the engine kinda doing it on the fly. That's cool stuff.
But the lighting, presumably with RT offload when appropriate, will be what defines the next generation IMO.
I'm not pooping on the tech at all, quite the opposite - I get that the point is that asset makers might theoretically be able to skip that step in favor of the engine kinda doing it on the fly. That's cool stuff.
But the lighting, presumably with RT offload when appropriate, will be what defines the next generation IMO.
Yeah, I have to think it does the process in reverse, instead of creating a mesh than applying a texture this takes the textures and generates the mesh.
probably waiting to see when HL3 launches so they can plan theirs for a few weeks ahead of them to beat them to the punch for those sales numbers.
I know, the ps4 has zlib naturally in a chip and all, btw the drive you linked had nothing regarding compression.
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BTW the point of having the compression algorithm in the form of a chip is exactly to not cost anything to the cpu, the compression isn't added because developers are lazy, they are not, it's added to free up significantly cpu resources (for example the kraken chip of the ps5 is over provisioned in that sense, it's designed to be able to output up to 22 gbps but the actual average effective data output is between 8 and 9 gbps for the average game).
Developers always use some form of compression, if you see how the game files pre install is smaller than post installation is exactly because they used compression, and they usually leave the files uncompressed post install to avoid wasting cpu cycles on that and instead using it more on the actual game logic.
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Well played sir, I'll let you get back to Fortnite.
Too old for that, I can't keep up with those youngins and PvP titles are too stressful, its why I had to give up EvE, bad for my health