UniFi

[QwertyJuan]

Anyone familiar??

Wanting to set one of these networks up... from my understanding, it's as easy as running cat5 from a POE hub and programming the units using the included software?

Want to make sure I know what I am in for before I go ahead and purchase.

Thanks.

 

[Jay_2]

yes, it really really easy, it uses MAC addresses I think to tell between the APs it picks up the config and its done.

 

[QwertyJuan]

So I plug let's say 10 of these into my network, install the software on my workstation, then set them all up at once? That easy?

 

[Nate7311]

That's it. Although if the controller software is running on a Windows Box, you'll want to open some ports or disable the firewall for proper detection and provisioning. Those ports are 8080, 8081, 8443, 8880, and 8843.

Keep in mind that you'll need to use the Pro's or AC units or POE adapters with the Classic or LR units in order to use standard POE switches. If you use the Classic or LR units the use a 24v system and you can find 24v injector setups on Amazon. I can link it if you need it.

 

[QwertyJuan]

So with the "Pro" version... any standard POE switch will work?

 

[Nate7311]

Yup, or you need a $20 adapter for the original 2 models for use with POE switches. THIS is what I was referring to about the injector for the original/classic models.

 

[dave99]

yeah, the pro is 802.3af standard. I have a number of these (well the basic unifi's, not pros) for clients, so I use a amazon AWS instance to manage them all from 1 place. Pretty cool to just add an option 43 in the dhcp at the client, the AP boots up, gets the mgmt server ip address from dhcp and logs in. Adopt then manage, piece of cake.

 

[QwertyJuan]

yeah, the pro is 802.3af standard. I have a number of these (well the basic unifi's, not pros) for clients, so I use a amazon AWS instance to manage them all from 1 place. Pretty cool to just add an option 43 in the dhcp at the client, the AP boots up, gets the mgmt server ip address from dhcp and logs in. Adopt then manage, piece of cake.

I am missing the "option 43" thing ... on Windows Server, option 43 under DHCP is "vendor specific info".

 

[dave99]

yeah, you need to put a custom string in there, in hex, that tells the AP what IP to check in with. If your controller is going to be on the same subnet as the AP's, then I don't think you need to do that.. Since mine are out on AWS, I use that. You can also just ssh into the AP's and set the IP manually when it first boots up, but dhcp is easier once I figured it out.

 

[Nate7311]

The controller doesn't have to be on the same subnet/VLAN and depend on ARP to discover the APs. Using Option 43, you can tell the AP's where the controller is. In Dave's example, his client's DHCP servers are set to hand out the Controller's IP to the AP's as they boot up even though it resides in an AWS instance.

 

[QwertyJuan]

So you are saying that I shouldn't just let these things get a random IP address from DHCP, but should instead "hard-code" them? Or does that matter?

 

[Nate7311]

Doesn't necessarily matter. That's more a matter of organizing your network. It's easiest to setup a controller and adopt the units into it and hard set the IPs that way if your wish. Or I like to just use DHCP Reservations to steer mine to certain ranges in subnets.

 

[QwertyJuan]

Doesn't necessarily matter. That's more a matter of organizing your network. It's easiest to setup a controller and adopt the units into it and hard set the IPs that way if your wish. Or I like to just use DHCP Reservations to steer mine to certain ranges in subnets.

But... all of this can be done from a workstation running the software, correct?

 

[dbwillis]

Yes, its easy to setup, plug them into the network, install the software, then configure the settings, then add the AP's to the software.
The software doesnt need to be running for the AP's to work either (PC doesnt even need to be on as well)

 

[dave99]

So you are saying that I shouldn't just let these things get a random IP address from DHCP, but should instead "hard-code" them? Or does that matter?

it's fine with dhcp for the device IP address (I use reservations just to keep them organized), but the IP we are talking about is the controller IP address (called the inform address). The AP needs to know how to find a controller to get configured. You can use them on a local subnet out of the box, enter the IP manually via ssh, or use dhcp option 43 to hand it out automatically.

 

[Nate7311]

Yes, as an example, I have deployed the controller software on both individual workstations and of Servers depending on the environment. The APs do NOT necessarily need the controller running to serve clients. The controller is required for configuring, provisioning, statistics and Captive Portal functionality. The AP's still depend on standard a standard IP infrastructure to operate.

From unboxing to configuration here's what happens:
1) Unbox and physically install AP.
2) Connect to Network and Power.
3) AP sends DHCP request for initial IP address. (It can be passed Option 43 info or Reserved IP at this time)
4) AP receives DHCP Request and configures itself for the subnet.
5) Once you have installed the Software, Run the program and log into the interface.
6) If the new AP is on the same Subnet, the Controller Software should detect it and show it as available for adoption.
7) If the AP is NOT on the same subnet, that's where the L3 deployment and DHCP Option 43 stuff Dave mentioned comes into play. This is useful for offsite management or VLAN separated management
8) Once the AP is adopted, the Site configuration of SSID's is pushed to the AP and it reboots with the site config.


All of this adds up to why you've seen the storm of UniFi reccomendations. It's ridiculously easy to install and configure. Snag one and play

 

[QwertyJuan]

So the software doesn't just "scan" to find available AP's?

 

[Nate7311]

That's 1, but not the only function. You need to controller software to configure the APs also. Is this for a business or for Home use?

 

[QwertyJuan]

That's 1, but not the only function. You need to controller software to configure the APs also. Is this for a business or for Home use?

It's small business... we are currently running just a bunch of soho routers (all hard coded) and have been for um.... 10 years maybe? Just wanting to upgrade to something a bit more robust, BUT wanted to see how well these things worked.

I had "assumed" I could just plug these puppies in, install the software.... "scan" to find the AP and then configure it from there??

 

[/usr/home]

You can also create a DNS entry of "unifi" that points to the controllers IP.

None of that matters if they are local though.

 

[QwertyJuan]

You can also create a DNS entry of "unifi" that points to the controllers IP.

None of that matters if they are local though.

Everything will be local... I have 60 computers, "maybe" 60 phones/ipads/etc.... and I'm just using one subnet.

 

[/usr/home]

Everything will be local... I have 60 computers, "maybe" 60 phones/ipads/etc.... and I'm just using one subnet.

Then it'll be a matter of plugging them out and the controller will find them automatically.

Also, with that many devices, the recommended max is 30 active clients per AP. If it's a dual band AP, the 30 on 2.4 + 30 on 5.8 = 60 total ACTIVE users. You may have more or less, but that's just a general rule.

 

[Nate7311]

I had "assumed" I could just plug these puppies in, install the software.... "scan" to find the AP and then configure it from there??

That's exactly how it works. It'll take you about 5 minutes to figure out and you'll look at the screen thinking, "That's it?!" when yer done and have 10 APs up and running. There's also a ton of walk throughs on youtube like THIS one, if you are still nervous. I install the crap out of these for clients. Cheap, reasonably bulletproof, and cake to install.

 

[QwertyJuan]

That's exactly how it works. It'll take you about 5 minutes to figure out and you'll look at the screen thinking, "That's it?!" when yer done and have 10 APs up and running. There's also a ton of walk throughs on youtube like THIS one, if you are still nervous. I install the crap out of these for clients. Cheap, reasonably bulletproof, and cake to install.

I'm not really nervous when it comes to networking... I've used DOZENS of Dlink, Linksys, Asus wifi access points/routers over the last 10 years or so. Just wanting something a bit better.

Thanks for all the help!

 

[QwertyJuan]

Then it'll be a matter of plugging them out and the controller will find them automatically.

Also, with that many devices, the recommended max is 30 active clients per AP. If it's a dual band AP, the 30 on 2.4 + 30 on 5.8 = 60 total ACTIVE users. You may have more or less, but that's just a general rule.

Hmmmmm..... really eh? There are times when I could "easily" be pushing more than that when it comes to wireless clients. (tons of people in and out with phones/ipads... I could see times of 45-50 "devices" on at a time) so is this "max" of 30 the same when it comes to everybody else's(dlink/linksys/asus) AP's??

 

[dave99]

You can get more, just really depends on what they are doing. 50 ipads doing background email sync on 1 AP isn't a problem, 30 people streaming 1080p youtube is. Remember that is per AP, not the system as a whole, if you have 50 people spread all over the building, you won't have any problems. If they are all crammed in a small cube farm, then plan on more than 1 AP covering the area.

The AP's are cheap enough (especially the basic non-pros), that you solve this with more points and reduce the output power.

 

[QwertyJuan]

You can get more, just really depends on what they are doing. 50 ipads doing background email sync on 1 AP isn't a problem, 30 people streaming 1080p youtube is. Remember that is per AP, not the system as a whole, if you have 50 people spread all over the building, you won't have any problems. If they are all crammed in a small cube farm, then plan on more than 1 AP covering the area.

The AP's are cheap enough (especially the basic non-pros), that you solve this with more points and reduce the output power.

Good idea! (reduce power and more APs) Never thought of that actually.

And yes... these are iPads/iPhones/Android/BB/etc... 90% of which would be just periodically checking emails, etc... NOT all pulling and yanking at the same time.

 

[QwertyJuan]

Just doing some reading.... the standard versions(which are the cheaper ones) have poe adapters included? So they won't run from a standard POE switch? Is that correct? And the Pro and AC version WILL run from a standard POE switch?

Thanks.

 

[QwertyJuan]

So I can use http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA1EA0TX6677 to power the "cheaper" non-pro units??

 

[klank]

the standard versions(which are the cheaper ones) have poe adapters included?

All UniFi APs include Ubiquity PoE injectors.

So they won't run from a standard PoE switch? Is that correct?

The UAP and UAP-LR will not work on a 802.3af or 802.3at PoE switch as the APs are non-standard PoE.

And the Pro and AC version WILL run from a standard PoE switch?

The UAP-PRO is 802.3af standard PoE. The UAP-AC is 802.3at which is high power PoE. If you go the UAP-AC route you need to make sure you either use the supplied PoE injector or have a switch that can supply 802.3at.

So I can use http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA1EA0TX6677 to power the "cheaper" non-pro units??

Yes, it can even power about 6 of the UAP-AC APs.

 

[QwertyJuan]

I definately don't want to use the power injector(especially if I go with 8-10 of these things).. what a mess of wires that would be at the switch! Yuck!

 

[klank]

I definately don't want to use the power injector(especially if I go with 8-10 of these things).. what a mess of wires that would be at the switch! Yuck!

I don't blame you. I have 3 UAP-LRs in my house and it is a little messier than I would like due to the PoE injectors.

How much of an area are you trying to cover? Floor plans available to critique the AP layout? I understand that you estimate 60 users; it is best to double that number to allow for growth. If you are going to have 8-10 APs you need to make sure that you are choosing AP locations wisely and channel planning to optimize the network performance as co-channel interference will bring your network to a crawl fast.

 

[QwertyJuan]

I don't blame you. I have 3 UAP-LRs in my house and it is a little messier than I would like due to the PoE injectors.

How much of an area are you trying to cover? Floor plans available to critique the AP layout? I understand that you estimate 60 users; it is best to double that number to allow for growth. If you are going to have 8-10 APs you need to make sure that you are choosing AP locations wisely and channel planning to optimize the network performance as co-channel interference will bring your network to a crawl fast.

Area of one building is 80x120?? And the other 50x80?? (sizes are approximate) they are side by side(within 20 feet of each other). I am covering these buildings with two RT-AC68 right now, and they seem to work well, however not enough range. "We'd" like more range and "I" would like something easier to manage. (plus the wireless handoff would be AWESOME in this environment)....

Secondly.... how do I determine channel interference?

 

[klank]

Area of one building is 80x120?? And the other 50x80?? (sizes are approximate) they are side by side(within 20 feet of each other). I am covering these buildings with two RT-AC68 right now, and they seem to work well, however not enough range. "We'd" like more range and "I" would like something easier to manage. (plus the wireless handoff would be AWESOME in this environment)....

Three APs in the large building and two in the smaller building will be more than enough to cover range and capacity. (Depending on what the building interiors of the buildings are made of (i.e. concrete, drywall, metal stud, glass, etc.) Also you will not have to worry about co-channel interference as you will have enough separation between the APs. You can obviously change it around to fit your needs.


This is something that I threw together as an example, your actual floor plan may differ.

How do I determine channel interference?

The use of inSSIDer (The new version is pay but you can download the slightly older version for free here). When you use inSSIDer it will show signal level of each AP. You don't want too many APs on the same channel with really high signal (i.e. -70 or better)

You need to play around with AP placement on your floor plan and map out your channel numbers so you get the least amount of overlap. 1, 6 and 11 are the only non overlapping 2.4Ghz channels, 5Ghz has 21 usable non-overlapping channels in the US.

There are numerous other factors to consider as well (which will take a long time to discuss), but with careful channel planning and AP placement you should have a reliable and fast Wi-Fi network.

Then again with the additional information you posted co-channel interference should not be an issue.

 

[Red Squirrel]

I would try to see if you can have a dedicated box so the software runs all the time. It provides nice stuff like stats and what not. Also I think it's needed if you do multi vlan or multi AP.

Just need a basic windows box for the software. I just have a 2003 VM for mine. (it's used for other stuff too. XP is probably fine)

 

[QwertyJuan]

I would try to see if you can have a dedicated box so the software runs all the time. It provides nice stuff like stats and what not. Also I think it's needed if you do multi vlan or multi AP.

Just need a basic windows box for the software. I just have a 2003 VM for mine. (it's used for other stuff too. XP is probably fine)

I've got 3 servers... so I could easily leave the software running on one of those.

 

[QwertyJuan]

Three APs in the large building and two in the smaller building will be more than enough to cover range and capacity. (Depending on what the building interiors of the buildings are made of (i.e. concrete, drywall, metal stud, glass, etc.) Also you will not have to worry about co-channel interference as you will have enough separation between the APs. You can obviously change it around to fit your needs.


This is something that I threw together as an example, your actual floor plan may differ.

The use of inSSIDer (The new version is pay but you can download the slightly older version for free here). When you use inSSIDer it will show signal level of each AP. You don't want too many APs on the same channel with really high signal (i.e. -70 or better)

You need to play around with AP placement on your floor plan and map out your channel numbers so you get the least amount of overlap. 1, 6 and 11 are the only non overlapping 2.4Ghz channels, 5Ghz has 21 usable non-overlapping channels in the US.

There are numerous other factors to consider as well (which will take a long time to discuss), but with careful channel planning and AP placement you should have a reliable and fast Wi-Fi network.

Then again with the additional information you posted co-channel interference should not be an issue.

So when you mentioned interference you meant between APs and not other things in the area?

 

[klank]

So when you mentioned interference you meant between APs and not other things in the area?

Technically its both. Your main source of interference is going to be your own APs. If you have a chance take a scan with inSSider and look to see if the RF environment is congested. Assuming that this building is urban and not rural.

 

[QwertyJuan]

Very rural actually... like middle of nowhere!

But I will still do the scan. Great idea, and something I didn't know about previously. Thanks!

 

[ComputerBox34]

To make it easier for your AP's to find the pc/server you have the Unifi software installed on, setup a static dns entry called "unifi" that points to the IP of the server. I find this the easiest way to get AP's to talk to a server on a different VLAN/subnet