U3011 Downgrading

cybertron

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Hey guys, I have a question for anyone who has used a U3011 and is possibly now using something else. I currently have a U3011 and I'm finding it too big for gaming as I can't see everything going on in my peripheral view.

I'd like to downgrade to the U2412M and I'm wondering if anyone has compared the two? I'm not seeing a lot of comparisons out there as these two are sort of in different classes. But the 2412 has 16.7M colors and the U3011 has 1+billion. That fact alone scares me a bit as I've become very happy with my uber high resolution wallpapers from StuckinCustoms.com. I can live without the stellar colors, but I'm wondering if anyone else has made the downgrade and regrets it? Or if there is another monitor that fits the bill but also is decent for gaming.

Thanks in advance.
 

jeremyshaw

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Don't worry too much about it, since you're likely not using Deep Color ("30bit color") in any game, :p



As for downgrading, I dunno; would putting the monitor further back help ya? :) Or maybe lowering the resolution and sitting back? There are quite a few things I'd rather do than downgrade my current monitor :D
 

BassDX

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If you have to downgrade, I would suggest getting the U2711. You still get 90% of the resolution of the U3011, but the 27" panel is compact enough that everything should fit in your peripheral view.
 

Wage

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I agree on the U2711.

Also, if you decide to downgrade, you should sell that 3011 to me. Just sayinz ;)
 

e2g

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I currently have a U3011 and I'm finding it too big for gaming as I can't see everything going on in my peripheral view.

I know it has been said already but would like to say it one more for that +1 effect,

why not push it back further? Do you have a 24" deep desk that you can't push it back further (24" is for exaggeration purposes)? Goodluck with whatever you decide.

Oh, what about getting an arm for it so you can suspend it and possibly overhand it off the desk? or possibly mounting it on the wall, and pushing your desk further from the wall (if you can). I would imagine you already explored all of this, so nevermind.
 

Wage

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Also, since you just got it you may just need a couple of days to get used to it. Any big change is going to require some adjustment, unless you were previously using a 27" or something very similar in size.
 

Corvette

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Wall mount that bad boy and pull the desk back for maximum affect. Not to mention more desk space.

On the other hand, more performance at native res. with a smaller monitor.

I sit 29" from my 24".
 
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Toonie

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Switched to an 750D from a U3011, don't miss the 30" one bit when you have vibrant colors with 120hz
 

Wage

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Switched to an 750D from a U3011, don't miss the 30" one bit when you have vibrant colors with 120hz

What in the hell?....

Just because a monitor has 120hz does not mean it has vibrant colors. Please explain to me how a 120hz TN monitor can exceed the color accuracy of an S-IPS panel, because I've yet to read of this revelation, which might as well be dubbed "The Godsend for gamers who would've loved their 30in S-IPS if only they spent as much time researching high speed RAM as they did looking up how to calibrate their display settings".

Seriously, just wtf @ this statement. I might as well have written *brain explode*. Or did you mean vibrant colors AND 120hz? In that case, I take back the stuff I said, since 120hz is important for people only buying a monitor for gaming.
 

Wage

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Fair enough, if that's the case, as I'm beginning to be bothered by this on my current ZR22w. All that means is that I'm about to open it up and take off the AG coating, though, not go backwards in time with my flux capacitor and buy a TN panel ever again in my life!
 
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cybertron

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Thanks for the replies guys. Actually, I've had this one for about year now. And my desk is an ikea galant, and i cannot move it back any further or I won't be able to read the font. And I refuse to lower the resolution and I'm anal as hell about crisp text, and anything lower than recommended is fuzzy to some degree.

That being said, I forgot to mention one major thing. I will be purchasing 2x U2412M as I really prefer having the dual monitor setup opposed to one single huge monitor. If I really have to have the color depth, I think i'd go with the U2410. Or some other 10-12bit panel out there. Problem is, I will be spending every penny plus some on this switch, and I know I can get about $1k for this monitor.

Anyway, my desktop is set to 32bit true color, is there any way to test what 16.7m colors will look like on this monitor?
 

NCX

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What in the hell?....

If you check TFT Centrals reviews both the 3011 and 3008 have very poor default colour (low gamma or super warm color temperature) accuracy, low contrast, IPS glow and grainy AG coating.

Most people don't own a colorimeter so their colour accuracy after calibration is irrelevant.

The new 120hz Samsungs come with very good default colour accuracy and aren't caked with grainy AG coating so it is quite easy to understand how some one can be blown away after owning a 30". Just because something is big and has a high resolution doesn't mean it is good.

10-12bit panel out there.

Is there any way to test what 16.7m colors will look like on this monitor?

10-12 bit panels are 8 bit with FRC and typically wide-gamut (1billion colours =over-saturated colours). The U2412hm (16.7m) is an sRGB display so it will look normal.

This should give you an idea
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_0-tLLf6eqJY/SefwejXzSEI/AAAAAAAAAqI/BkUy-DKUsd8/s1600/230.jpg
 
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jeremyshaw

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Thanks for the replies guys. Actually, I've had this one for about year now. And my desk is an ikea galant, and i cannot move it back any further or I won't be able to read the font. And I refuse to lower the resolution and I'm anal as hell about crisp text, and anything lower than recommended is fuzzy to some degree.

That being said, I forgot to mention one major thing. I will be purchasing 2x U2412M as I really prefer having the dual monitor setup opposed to one single huge monitor. If I really have to have the color depth, I think i'd go with the U2410. Or some other 10-12bit panel out there. Problem is, I will be spending every penny plus some on this switch, and I know I can get about $1k for this monitor.

Anyway, my desktop is set to 32bit true color, is there any way to test what 16.7m colors will look like on this monitor?

If you are using DVI on that U3011, then don't worry about it. If you are using DisplayPort, and have professional applications that support it, a GPU that supports it, and drivers that support it... then 10bit (30bit in marketing) might actually matter.
 

Wage

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If you check TFT Centrals reviews both the 3011 and 3008 have very poor default colour (low gamma and super warm color temperature) accuracy, low contrast, IPS glow and grainy AG coating.

Most people don't own a colorimeter so their colour accuracy after calibration is irrelevant.

The new 120hz Samsungs come with very good default colour accuracy and aren't caked with grainy AG coating so it is quite easy to understand how some one can be blown away after owning a 30". Just because something is big and has a high resolution doesn't mean it is good.



10-12 bit panels are 8 bit with FRC and typically wide-gamut (1billion colours =over-saturated colours). The U2412hm (16.7m) is an sRGB display so it will look normal.

This should give you an idea
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_0-tLLf6eqJY/SefwejXzSEI/AAAAAAAAAqI/BkUy-DKUsd8/s1600/230.jpg

Per http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_u3011.htm:

"Performance wise the default factory settings were very pleasing in standard, AdobeRGB and sRGB modes which was great to see. The factory calibration of gamma and colours has done a good job here and it's a nice investment by Dell. We'd like to see more screens factory calibrated like this as it's very important to most normal users, who would not necessarily have access to a colorimeter or reliable calibration methods. Black depth, contrast ratio, responsiveness and input lag were also all more than adequate. There were some obvious improvements made over the previous 3008WFP in these regards, and certainly when it came to the colour accuracy and performance in those tests. This was obviously a decent upgrade from the 3008WFP which is again great to see."

I am still researching the u3011 and similar panels, as I look to move to a 30" S-IPS soon, so I have not read this review yet. I will do so now, though, in case I am missing something that the above conclusion does not bring up? Because even stated under the Pros and Cons report, tftcentral lists the following as one of its pros:

"Great colour accuracy and gamma set up at factory defaults. Including factory calibrated Adobe RGB and sRGB modes"

??
 

NCX

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Ignore the text and look at the actual data, Most of what Simon writes is "kind," fluff so that he doesn't piss off the manufacturers (imo) and they will continue sending him displays.

Factory Setting
Color temperature 5804k=meh
Contrast 780:1=mediocre, the average is >850:1 and most of the newer IPS (U2412hm, ZR2440W, most 22-23" models) are able to achieve >1000:1

Factory setting sRGB
Color Temperature 5404k=mediocre, super warm

Most displays have color temperatures of around 6200-6800k which are close to the ideal setting of 6500k. These 1000$+ displays aren't super hot, especially when compared to many of the smaller models which have much better factory settings

Consider the grainy AG coating and IPS glow as well.

The 3008 is even worse.
 
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Wage

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Hrmm, well that's disappointing. I've gone to tftcentral in the past and chosen two different monitors based on their (and other websites, but mostly theirs, as they are more indepth than most) reviews. Kinda discredits both purchases if they're just lying to keep manufacturers happy... :(
 

NCX

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It doesn't discredit him since he still provides the raw data which is what matters. He is just playing it safe in the written portions and I can't blame him for doing so.
 

Wage

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While you're here (if you still are), are there any 30inch IPS monitors you would recommend besides the u3011? I'll continue to research this on my own, but I noticed that you write reviews elsewhere and wanted to save some trouble if possible. (Though I'll probably read through those anyway.)
 

NCX

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I would never encourage some one to spend their (possibly) hard earned money to punish them selves with a 30" matte IPS panel.

Apple Cinema Display, Samsung S27A850D or the upcoming Samsung series 9 1440p displays are what you should be looking at if you want something good.
 

Wage

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And if I have the balls/stupidity to remove the anti-glare coating from a 30" IPS panel? (Which is what I was planning to do after reading about some guy doing it for his Dell Ultrasharp 27".)

I'd test the procedure on my ZR22w right now if I wasn't considering selling it on eBay to make up for the 30"'s costs. It looks fairly simple, though, and I've opened up panels before for capacitor replacements.
 

Haiku214

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I wouldn't even think of replacing a 30 inch IPS monitor lol. You'll probably get used to it soon. Just push it back further.
 

NCX

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And if I have the balls/stupidity to remove the anti-glare coating from a 30" IPS panel

Then you would be an idiot because the 30" have worse image quality compared to the 27" Samsung/Apple. Removing the AG coating doesn't solve the color accuracy (you need a colorimeter for that), the low contrast and you could wreck your display.

Get your self a 27" and donate the difference instead of throwing away the money on something you can easily wreck and isn't good in the first place. 1st world problems man.
 
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Wage

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Damn, fine, I'll probably end up doing what you say, as you are not the only person who's mentioned the above issues to me. I just wanted so badly to experience 16:10! :mad: Well, that and I have a feeling it's eventually going to feel small, which means I'm gonna have to get a 1080p projector (or some similarly expensive upgrade for movie/HD video watching) and continue driving my beat-up car for another 100 years.

Or maybe I'll win the lottery.

I'll continue researching, but I seriously appreciate your advice.
 

NCX

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No problem.

27" isn't small if you sit 2-3ft away. It will fill your field of vision for that "immersive," experience.

adding more pixels and screen real-estate doesn't compensate for poor image quality and the fact that you would be paying a lot for it. For the 1000$+ range there are a few excellent Plasmas like the Samsung PN51D550 which work perfectly as PC monitors and will destroy any monitor in terms of image quality if you want to take the American "Bigger is Better/Super-Size Me," approach.
 

Wage

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adding more pixels and screen real-estate doesn't compensate for poor image quality and the fact that you would be paying a lot for it.

I agree, which is the only reason I haven't just bought an HDTV and hooked that up to my PC instead. And I won't sit further away than 3ft.

Oh, and I see you added to your post, but I can't keep derailing this thread; I'll respond via PM >_>
 

e2g

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I agree, which is the only reason I haven't just bought an HDTV and hooked that up to my PC instead. And I won't sit further away than 3ft.

Oh, and I see you added to your post, but I can't keep derailing this thread; I'll respond via PM >_>

please....derail away


others are listening....
 

Wage

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e2g, just in case you weren't being sarcastic, I'm still researching the topic of 30" IPS vs its non-monitor alternatives and am finding out some good, some bad. While the Samsung recommended by NCX may not be one of them, many Plasma screens (and HDTVs in general) do not handle text very well and require increases in DPI within Windows in order to make text easy to read. Not a huge deal, but it would annoy me, as it does not always work. There's a helluva lot of information on this topic, but it's very sporadic for this particular application (using non-monitors as displays for PCs).

After PMing NCX, he also recommended the D8000 Samsung series. Not quite as within financial reach for me as the PN51D550*, but with quality (and newer model series) comes a price.

I'll probably try to make a thread about non-monitor PC display alternatives when all of this is over, since I'm reading about those more than 30" IPS models lately. As explained to NCX via PM, what I'm truly looking for is a display device which can be used as a PC monitor and a movie watching device both. I am an IT and also a movie buff, but I also play videogames and do video editing work every so often.

The main reason I am spending so much time researching this topic is I'm working on a limited budget. I was hoping to cut costs of independent units and also save space, since my office really isn't big enough to accommodate an adequately sized television for movie viewing and my computer desk area both. I rent out half my place to a friend; he gets the living room and his small bedroom, I get the master bedroom and my bigger office.

If you're also looking at using a non-monitor as a large (>27") computer display:

NOTES: All "Projectors" and "HDTVs" imply 1080p resolution. All "Monitors" implies 1440p or better, IPS panel only. All "Projectors" imply DLP only, as the general consensus I've gathered is that you should not use LCD projector panels for long sessions or many hours' use. HDTVs are 40" minimum.

Affordability (for general use): HDTVs > Monitors > Projectors
Affordability (for color accuracy): Monitors > HDTVs > Projectors
Picture Quality (movies, games, entertainment): Projectors > HDTVs > Monitors
Picture Quality (document viewing, web surfing): Monitors > Projectors > HDTVs
Ease of Implementation: HDTVs > Monitors > Projectors
Configuration Options: HDTVs > Monitors > Projectors
Versatility (setting): HDTVs > Monitors > Projectors
Versatility (use): Projectors > HDTVs > Monitors
Time before image degradation: DLP HDTVs/Projectors* > Monitors > Plasma & LCD HDTVs/Projectors
Physical Durability: Monitors > HDTVs > Projectors
MTBF: Monitors > Commercial-Grade/Enthusiast Projectors > Commercial-Grade/Enthusiast HDTVs > Consumer-Grade Projectors > Consumer-Grade HDTVs

*implies replacement of bulb, retaining image quality as long as rest of unit works

Hope that helps anyone else "listening", and like I said, I'm not expert, just an IT trying to save a lot of money by researching before an expensive purchase.
 
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10e

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Switched to an 750D from a U3011, don't miss the 30" one bit when you have vibrant colors with 120hz

You are just trading one evil for another though. You gain a clearer anti-glare and a wall of reflections instead. A 27" TN panel with glossy is going to be marred by two primary flaws: reflection and dark top/bright bottom syndrome.

IMHO 23 - 24" TNs are better at limiting these two issues.

Thanks for the replies guys. Actually, I've had this one for about year now. And my desk is an ikea galant, and i cannot move it back any further or I won't be able to read the font. And I refuse to lower the resolution and I'm anal as hell about crisp text, and anything lower than recommended is fuzzy to some degree.

That being said, I forgot to mention one major thing. I will be purchasing 2x U2412M as I really prefer having the dual monitor setup opposed to one single huge monitor. If I really have to have the color depth, I think i'd go with the U2410. Or some other 10-12bit panel out there. Problem is, I will be spending every penny plus some on this switch, and I know I can get about $1k for this monitor.

Anyway, my desktop is set to 32bit true color, is there any way to test what 16.7m colors will look like on this monitor?

Depending on what mode you ran your U3011 in, you won't notice much difference, or you will notice a lot of difference. The U3011 has wide color gamut which would be present in every mode except sRGB.

If you ran it in Custom color or Adobe RGB mode, then you will notice that it had much more saturated color than the U2412M will give.

In terms of 30-bit (8-bit + A-FRC) versus 18/24-bit (6-bit + A-FRC) you likely wouldn't notice any difference even if you know exactly what to look for.

jeremyshaw has it correct. 30-bit gives you nothing at this point.

I can also agree that a 30" is a big screen and can easily fill your field of vision almost too much during fast paced games. The 27" 2560x1440 screens don't have this issue. I used to have a 3008WFP.

I agree, which is the only reason I haven't just bought an HDTV and hooked that up to my PC instead. And I won't sit further away than 3ft.

Oh, and I see you added to your post, but I can't keep derailing this thread; I'll respond via PM >_>

HDTV as a monitor is not as easy as buying a regular monitor. TVs are made to be looked at from further away, and not from up close. This means the edges of the panel will be at a more extreme angle than a monitors due to size. In addition many of them have high input lag due to processing features, and the 120hz/240hz feature is useless for PC applications.

You might want to look over here and have a good read. Also, don't get research-itis and only go on the word of other forum users. You may find what they term "garbage" is something you like.

You might want to start here on SJetski's thread: http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1645885

or go to AVS Forum and look at their input lag thread as a start.
 

Wage

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Thank you, I will read those; I find it much harder to find information on HDTVs and their compatibility with PCs than I do monitors.

Also, yes, I'm very aware of your point regarding one person's trash being another's treasure, which is why I'm still researching (though NCX brings up very valid facts along with his opinions). I know there's never going to be a "perfect" solution, so if I educate myself enough I can determine which display setup I'll be able to live with despite its flaws.
 

e2g

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I know there's never going to be a "perfect" solution.

Unfortunately. This is the one thing that annoys me. And no, Wage. I was not being sarcastic. I was interested in the topic but I am not considering a HDTV. I would like a monitor and thought the u3011 may be one but it is just stretching my budget. If I am going to plunge, it better be good; better than the 24" and 27" on the market that are cheaper.

I too am a movie buff and that is why I sold my first HDTV (it was a Toshiba LCD that had terrible flashlighting and backlight bleed --something that the monitor i am using right now has) and went and got a Plasma. I too did some research for a few months and finally settled with a plasma. I couldn't be happier. Anyways,

like i was saying, I too am a movie buff, I play some games, read code/write code but I don't do any (serious) video/photo editing. I think I want something that has an excellent picture quality and use it to play games. However, I am not looking to buy right now, but just floating around and keeping myself updated on the new stuff coming out.

Thanks for the info you provided in the other post.
 

vorpel

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Please be sure to check out some of the Apple Cinema Displays in person. They are very beautiful, but the glare can be an issue. The only other drawback I see (I have an iMac 27") is that the ACD has only 1 video input.

Having used 30" monitors for the past 4+ years, don't be afraid of them!

Ultimately your computing environment (amount of light and available space) in addition to what looks best to you - glare vs anti-glare coating, should guide you on what will work best for you.

Good luck!

-DC


Thank you, I will read those; I find it much harder to find information on HDTVs and their compatibility with PCs than I do monitors.

Also, yes, I'm very aware of your point regarding one person's trash being another's treasure, which is why I'm still researching (though NCX brings up very valid facts along with his opinions). I know there's never going to be a "perfect" solution, so if I educate myself enough I can determine which display setup I'll be able to live with despite its flaws.
 

BassDX

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Also, I do not recommend removing the anti-glare coating, you will have to go through the trouble of replacing it with some other coating as the very delicate polarizer would be exposed otherwise, not to mention your warranty would be voided. If you think AG is something that will bother you, try to see it in person first, or just pay the premium and get something with a glossy screen.
 

Chrisroman

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I have three U3011 monitors and, in my opinion, the factory calibration was aweful on all of them on all presets. They simply need to calibrated professionally, and when done properly they look very nice. Before proper calibration, the AG coating really bothered me... a lot. After calibration, I stopped noticing it altogether. Once calibrated, the matte finish is much nicer to look at than glossy, at least for me.
 

treble318

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I had the same issue, the 30 inch 3007wfp was what I had before. it's pretty but when it comes for gaming the 120 hz , dell OPTX AW310, have to say personally makes a world of a difference. In addition the ability to see everything on the screen made my gaming improve for fps. Although I miss the real estate on the 30", the 23 inch is a better buy for gaming. If you can keep two that would be best, alternating monitors as needed =)
 
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