U.S. Planes Spy On American Phones

chaikovski2002 said:
This right here! Its already happened! September 11 anyone? The truth were the government killed 3000+ of its own citizens by knocking down the world trade center towers. Does anyone honestly still believe the phony terror hysteria and the lying media that Arabs living in caves did it? I love how the goverment pretends to inform us govern and protect us by killing us off.
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FYI - The tinfoil hat is supposed to go over your head to stop mind control lasers and not around your neck to cut off the flow of blood to your brain. :)
 
LOL, really? we have a guy here on the [H] that believes this bullshit conspiracy theory?

Fuck I am getting a screen shot of this one.

Arabs living in caves?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijackers_in_the_September_11_attacks
The hijackers in the September 11 attacks were 19 men affiliated with al-Qaeda, and 15 of the 19 were citizens of Saudi Arabia.
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Caves in Saudi Arabia?
Kingdom%20Centre.jpg


The cave dwellers;
Mohamed Atta
Born in 1968 in a small town in Egypt's Nile Delta, Mohamed Atta moved with his family to the Abdeen section of Cairo at the age of 10. Atta studied architecture at Cairo University, graduating in 1990, and continued his studies in Hamburg, Germany at the Technical University of Hamburg.
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Marwan al-Shehhi
al-Shehhi was born in Ras al-Khaimah, on May 9, 1978, in the United Arab Emirates, to a Muslim cleric who died in 1997. He was described as a quiet and devout Muslim.

After graduating from high school in 1995, al-Shehhi enlisted in the Emirati military and received a half a year of basic training before he was admitted into a military scholarship program that allowed him to continue his education in Germany. Upon arriving in Germany in April 1996, al-Shehhi moved into an apartment, which he shared three other scholarship students for two months before boarding with a local German family. After several more months, al-Shehhi moved into his own apartment. Those who knew him described al-Shehhi as a very religious and friendly individual who wore western clothes and sometimes rented cars for trips to Berlin, France, and the Netherlands.
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Ziad Jarrah
Jarrah was born in Beirut, Lebanon, to a wealthy family. In the spring of 1996, Jarrah moved to Germany with his cousin Salim. They were there to take a certificate course in German at the University of Greifswald required of foreigners studying in Germany who do not speak the language. While sharing an apartment with his cousin, he reportedly attended discos and beach parties, and his attendance at the mosque fell off. He met Aysel Şengün, a Turkish woman studying dentistry, and the two became good friends. They dated on and off for the remainder of his life, and lived together briefly, which vexed his more religious friends
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.

Hani Hanjour
Hanjour first came to the United States in 1991 to study English at the University of Arizona's Center for English as a Second Language. Hanjour's eldest brother Abdulrahman helped him apply to the eight-week program, and found a room in Tucson, Arizona for Hanjour near the Islamic Center of Tucson.
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I don't think these guys lived in caves.
 
Did you see my earlier post? Did you get that info from google and wikipedia? Who do you think controls those websites?
 
chaikovski2002 , where are you from for starters? And wherever it is, have you ever been anywhere else?
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
FYI - The tinfoil hat is supposed to go over your head to stop mind control lasers and not around your neck to cut off the flow of blood to your brain. :)
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Before Edward Snowden you would have said the same thing.
Turns out even conspiracy theorists were being conservative.
Now it's all normal.
What else is the Government lying about for our own good?

Building 7 Man! :)
 
chaikovski2002 said:
Did you see my earlier post? Did you get that info from google and wikipedia? Who do you think controls those websites?
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I know right? That picture can't possibly be of a place in Saudi Arabia. Everyone knows there are no cities in the Middle East. Everyone lives in caves and has never even seen fire, let alone electricity or indoor plumbing. It's all just a myth like landing on the Moon (which is made out of cheese and has a guy trapped inside)! The Earth is also flat and if you sail far enough in the Atlantic Ocean from Spain, you'll fall off the edge where you'll end up being accosted by a glow-in-the-dark Bigfoot which is actually only glowing because of swamp gas, but it looks a lot like the aliens that are haunting the Blarney Stone that people are encouraged to kiss so they get government-manufactured nanobots inside them that make them see visions of Elvis.
 
Technikal said:
Before Edward Snowden you would have said the same thing.
Turns out even conspiracy theorists were being conservative.
Now it's all normal.
What else is the Government lying about for our own good?

Building 7 Man! :)
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Well, most of the leaky stuff is blown way out of proportion by news outlets and taken out of context which the average person doesn't at all bother to follow up on with actual research to understand where, when, and how stuff is being applied. So meh, Snowden didn't really do anything aside from generate page views and drive up ratings to make it more expensive for advertisers to buy slots at certain sites. And, of course, it got all the people who would normally have complained about the government anyway some specific misinformation to flip out about.
 
lcpiper said:
I am amazed you think of Google as a website to begin with. One clueless dude.
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What would you consider google to be then? I would consider it a search engine, but, when I was in a trivia game at a restaurant/bar not too long ago one of the questions was "what's the number one website in the world" and I told my group it couldn't be google because it's a search engine. Sure enough, the answer was google. I guess you could argue that google.com is a website and google is a search engine? I'm not sure anymore.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
Well, most of the leaky stuff is blown way out of proportion by news outlets and taken out of context which the average person doesn't at all bother to follow up on with actual research to understand where, when, and how stuff is being applied. So meh, Snowden didn't really do anything aside from generate page views and drive up ratings to make it more expensive for advertisers to buy slots at certain sites. And, of course, it got all the people who would normally have complained about the government anyway some specific misinformation to flip out about.
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but really, you nor anyone on really knows whats really going on.

The truth is it's probably a grey area somewhere in the middle..like everything.

But you know it's not like lack or privacy and mass spying will ever decrease now right?
so that is a problem imo.

http://globalnews.ca/news/1672362/5-things-to-know-about-facebooks-privacy-update/

It's just endless
 
Technikal, now we are talking. You are right, it's very hard to know just what is going on. But it seems to me the privacy rights groups and the media are fixed on the concept that since they can't know what is or isn't going on, then the only thing they can do is cry as loud as they can all the time and make all the fuss they can to try and hold back the wave.

But there is a problem with this approach. Just like some people on this forum, and many other places as well, talk like the government is spying on them all the time in ever way possible, there are some in the government who saying why bother, they won't believe us anyway, the public is convinced and can't be swayed. And the crux of this problem is then they look around and go, really, no riots, no great acts of civil disobedience. Loki was right, they do like to kneel.

Exaggerating the issues are not the solution. Crying wolf isn't helpful. And thinking you can't do anything or that what you think doesn't matter is wrong too. I think you'd agree You can't have a discussion with people if all you are going to do is yell. It helps when you can get your point across without spending all your time just flinging accusations. But this is the approach taken by the media and the privacy groups, just keep throwing out accusations based on misrepresented information.

The other side just throws up it's hands and says "What's the point?"

No I come to Facebook and I say so what, they are a service, you don't have to have it, it's not a Social Security Number. I have never had a Facebook Account, doesn't take too many stories about people being fired for shit on their Facebook Page to realized it overs more risk then reward.

Participation is voluntary, their policy is publicized. You just have to choose.
 
lcpiper said:
Oh no, it's not the only threat. You would have to be a fool to beleave that other countries are not threats to your freedom. All you guys got terrorist on the brain, go visit Ukraine or Iraq if you need a wake up call, just don't expect to make it back alive.
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Perhaps my point was unclear - you seem to have missed it.

How many times has an agent of the Iraqi/ukranian government come to american soil and killed a U.S. citizen?

If I have to go to their country to be hurt by them... then they're not a threat to my freedom.

In contrast, how many U.S. citizens are killed by police every single year? How many innocent people are jailed for crimes they didn't commit? how many people are locked up for victimless crimes?

I stand by my statement. The genuine threat to my freedom is my own government.

However, I do appreciate your efforts to cast light on difficult subjects, ala clarifying the statements made by the media. You won't be able to convince me the activities of the government are legitimate (since I don't believe government itself is a legitimate institution), but it's nice to at least have someone attempting to clarify a murky subject for those of us who aren't in the know.
 
temujin987 said:
3...2....1.... lcpiper will show up in this thread praising the shit outta the government spying on its citizens. about six times per page per thread.
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there you go: 15 out of 56 responses = approx. 6 per page and 27% of the entire thread. i must be a wizard to predict that...


lcpiper said:
It's not the phones on a plane that they are tracking, tho they could maybe. They are tracking/locating suspect phones from devices that are used from a plane. They fly around with the box on locating badies they are tracking or hunting for.
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lcpiper said:
Oh, and this isn't spying, it's not. It's specifically looking for an individual's cell phone by hunting it down by it's cellular identity. It even says that when it connects to a device that isn't the one it's looking for it drops the device and releases it's signal.
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lcpiper said:
Ignoring the grand ,misdirection by the article's author, do you really think this is a violation of your privacy?

A plane is up there looking for a specific cellular ID sampling the sea of cell phones until it finds and locks onto the suspect's phone signal. Then they track the guy down through direction finding based off the signal strength and direct the cops on the ground to his location for arrest.

The article just says it's scooping up your phone information but if they wanted to say it accurately then they would have described it like I did. But they didn't, cause they want it to sound damning, they want you to swallow whole their misrepresented bullshit.

Does it matter that they have a warrant for the guys arrest?

When I was driving with my Family on a trip we were on the interstate rolling around Nashville at night, suddenly a bunch of cops cars, mostly unmarked fired up their lights and sirens and basically corralled and herded about 7 cars, ours included, off to the side of the road. I thought it was one of those mass traffic speed trap stunts they do sometimes but then they all started jumping out of their cars with guns drawn and I knew it was something else. Soon enough they came over, told us it was a bust on a drug dealer, and told us we could leave and help slow the traffic so we could safely get back on the road. Now some of those cop cars must have had dash cams right, and they must have gotten my Plate Numbers right, just scooped it up. Well they could use that to track me, that I was in Tennessee traveling South. Is that any different? Is that something that should bother me?
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lcpiper said:
I just can't stay away, I find it very amusing to see you guys go nuts believing the lies thee reports write, you guys just can't go near a cliff without jumping. It's hilarious.

You are your own worst trolls.
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lcpiper said:
Oh, and I never have said this you know right?
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lcpiper said:
Oh fucking stop.

How in fuck do you simpletons jump to the conclusions that I address everything the government does. I don't. Almost everything I talk about is related to the DoD intelligence Services and mostly the NSA. There is a reason, one because I have some experience with it, and two, it's so easy for the reporters to lie about things the public hardly understands because it's so secretive.

You act like I am working against you but I am not. There are threats to our freedoms, there are people who are doing things they shouldn't, there are people trying to manipulate you. They're doing a great job, and by not actually reading things and looking into what you are being told and challenging what is commonly accepted, you make yourself an easy target. You my friend are the low hanging fruit, the easy mark.

Wake up, you are somebody's Chump.
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lcpiper said:
Oh, and no, I am not running for office.
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lcpiper said:
I won't deny it and I have no need to "square it".

I have no need to defend anything, I stopped defending when I retired from the Army 17 years ago.

I only point out the lies and deceit of the media when I see it and when I see people accepting those lies. Unfortunately, instead of asking why I think something is wrong all I get back is a label or two and frankly I would have thought by now you would have figured it out.

You know this article has a great graphic of the planes and the signals and the bad guys and the cops. Does the picture match the written accusation?
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lcpiper said:
Well, we are replying back and forth pretty fast, and I am pacing myself, don't want to push my 6 post per page limit.

I don't know who it is, but someone is doing it. Doing a great job too. I am pretty much the only one here that reads this article and says wait a minute, the facts presented don't add up to the conclusions that are pushing out there in a doggie dish for us to swallow.

All our phones have a cellular ID that is used to identify the phone when it establishes a signal with the towers. Immigration and Customs Enforcement(ICE, part of DHS), have a known suspect they want to get their hands on so they are using the signal from his phone to find him. Those are the facts presented. The rest, is all been conjecture, inuendo, bullshit.

Here is ICE's website, http://www.ice.gov/ go read their mission, go read what they claim they have been doing for our tax dollars.

This government documents they linked to in the article are purchase contracts for an upgrade of some of their existing Stingrays to Stingray IIs along with training for four people, less then 2 million so really cheap as government acquisitions go.

But this report doesn't just talk about ICE and how they are using this equipment so that we can decide if we think it's cool or not, they go way beyond that.

First this quote from some ACLU dude;
It's over the top, the reason for putting the Stingray in a plane isn't so they can gather more signals from more phones, it's so they can use the direction finding part of the equipment package to rapidly locate the phone they are looking for. I know this from my Army days, airborne collectors can fly a "track" and are able to sample several hits on a signal from different angles to rapidly narrow down the area the signal could originate from.

This quote is odd;
ICE belongs to DHS, not DoJ so I guess they were just asking around hoping that someone might tell them something that would show if more agencies were using Airborne Stingrays.

Umm, again, is this spying? I am asking you and the others if what they say ICE is using the Stingray IIs for, in planes, is it spying the way the article says they are being used?



https://www.aclu.org/files/assets/100823_transcription_of_suppression_hearing_28unsealed_pages_11-2429.pdf

And if you read this linked document the writer provided the cops start by going to the cell phone provider to see if the phone is in use within their jurisdiction and to get them close enough to "walk to the device, to the handset."

So in essence, these Airborne Stingray IIs allow the cops to bypass going to the cell provider to get the general location. Now I don't know if this is completely legal or not but that is not what I have spoken on. What I have commented on is how this article approaches this topic and depicts what is going on in a way that misleads the reader into believing things are going on that are not actually happening. My proof is in the comment from the readers right on this forum.

I can't tell you who is behind it or what their goal is. If you wanted to know that you would need to find out who is paying who and for what. I don't think the media is going to report on that though do you?
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lcpiper said:
Oh no, it's not the only threat. You would have to be a fool to beleave that other countries are not threats to your freedom. All you guys got terrorist on the brain, go visit Ukraine or Iraq if you need a wake up call, just don't expect to make it back alive.
Click to expand...

lcpiper said:
LOL, really? we have a guy here on the [H] that believes this bullshit conspiracy theory?

Fuck I am getting a screen shot of this one.

Arabs living in caves?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijackers_in_the_September_11_attacks
Caves in Saudi Arabia?
Kingdom%20Centre.jpg


The cave dwellers;
Mohamed Atta


Marwan al-Shehhi


Ziad Jarrah
.

Hani Hanjour


I don't think these guys lived in caves.
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lcpiper said:
Oh there is nothing phony about the war on terror. More then enough dead to testify to it's reality.
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lcpiper said:
I am amazed you think of Google as a website to begin with. One clueless dude.
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lcpiper said:
chaikovski2002 , where are you from for starters? And wherever it is, have you ever been anywhere else?
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lcpiper said:
This is what Google is;
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=stock+market+quote+google
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lcpiper said:
Technikal, now we are talking. You are right, it's very hard to know just what is going on. But it seems to me the privacy rights groups and the media are fixed on the concept that since they can't know what is or isn't going on, then the only thing they can do is cry as loud as they can all the time and make all the fuss they can to try and hold back the wave.

But there is a problem with this approach. Just like some people on this forum, and many other places as well, talk like the government is spying on them all the time in ever way possible, there are some in the government who saying why bother, they won't believe us anyway, the public is convinced and can't be swayed. And the crux of this problem is then they look around and go, really, no riots, no great acts of civil disobedience. Loki was right, they do like to kneel.

Exaggerating the issues are not the solution. Crying wolf isn't helpful. And thinking you can't do anything or that what you think doesn't matter is wrong too. I think you'd agree You can't have a discussion with people if all you are going to do is yell. It helps when you can get your point across without spending all your time just flinging accusations. But this is the approach taken by the media and the privacy groups, just keep throwing out accusations based on misrepresented information.

The other side just throws up it's hands and says "What's the point?"

No I come to Facebook and I say so what, they are a service, you don't have to have it, it's not a Social Security Number. I have never had a Facebook Account, doesn't take too many stories about people being fired for shit on their Facebook Page to realized it overs more risk then reward.

Participation is voluntary, their policy is publicized. You just have to choose.
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Technikal said:
but really, you nor anyone on really knows whats really going on.

The truth is it's probably a grey area somewhere in the middle..like everything.

But you know it's not like lack or privacy and mass spying will ever decrease now right?
so that is a problem imo.

http://globalnews.ca/news/1672362/5-things-to-know-about-facebooks-privacy-update/

It's just endless
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Maybe I do know what's going on. You never know who's actually a cat on the internet, after all. But really, there isn't mass spying going on. It would take so much moolah and so many people to keep track of 300 million Americans who are generally doing nothing at all worth caring about that it'd be impossible to hide far-reach monitoring and spying that the tinfoil types insist is going on.

And for the record, I can eleventy jillions of percent promise you that the people who don't know what's going on are the media and news types. So listening to any of them is just asking to be as dumb or dumber than they are. :)
 
Technikal said:
When your Nation is almost 20 TRILLION dollars in Dept. Cost is no issue.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Data_Center

There is enough expansion to hold ALL the data in the world.. and ALL data that will be produced for the next decade.

Canada as well! woot!

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/02/11/spy-palace-csec_n_4762228.html
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Yeah, um we can't even make data warehouses that can easily store standardized data, much less all the unformatted, random stuff traversing the Interwebs. Atop that, to siphon off all the world's internet traffic, you need bandwidth and processing power too. There's a lot of other pieces of the puzzle that are missing aside from storage AND there's absolutely no reason to believe this is even owned by the NSA. It's probably a DoJ thing or belongs to AllRecipies.com. :rolleyes: I swear, people who were teenage video game people in the 1990s are the biggest tinfoil hat types ever inflicted on the planet.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
Yeah, um we can't even make data warehouses that can easily store standardized data, much less all the unformatted, random stuff traversing the Interwebs. Atop that, to siphon off all the world's internet traffic, you need bandwidth and processing power too. There's a lot of other pieces of the puzzle that are missing aside from storage AND there's absolutely no reason to believe this is even owned by the NSA. It's probably a DoJ thing or belongs to AllRecipies.com. :rolleyes: I swear, people who were teenage video game people in the 1990s are the biggest tinfoil hat types ever inflicted on the planet.
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Don't shoot the messenger man I'm just posting what others wrote I did not say I believed it. I'm sure they are not storing Youtube videos, games, movies, music or worthless large files. Just billions of phone, emails, texts, whatever ..log files basically. Who knows.
That complex is suppose to be 5 stories deep with massive "underground infrastructure"
Whatever that means.

And it's only the first one of 3 more going to be being built.
According to them crazy conspiracy theorists..
We are much to smart to be like them :)
 
Technikal said:
Don't shoot the messenger man I'm just posting what others wrote I did not say I believed it. I'm sure they are not storing Youtube videos, games, movies, music or worthless large files. Just billions of phone, emails, texts, whatever ..log files basically. Who knows.
That complex is suppose to be 5 stories deep with massive "underground infrastructure"
Whatever that means.

And it's only the first one of 3 more going to be being built.
According to them crazy conspiracy theorists..
We are much to smart to be like them :)
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It's probably just a big building for keeping snack food fresh. Why else make it underground and stuff? I mean putting wires and hard drives underground makes no sense unless you're trying to send IT things to the drow still living in the Underdark since anytime it rains, you end up with a big swimming pool. So yeah, snacks and the Underdark.
 
This is similar to the "fake" cell towers being deployed. I think a lot of these where used by law enforcement to gather our radio signals from phones.
 
Does not surprise me at all. They do it on the ground too so many as well do it in the air. We really need to combat this but sadly not much we can do. These agencies are centuries ahead of current available tech it is pretty hard to beat them. When it comes to quantum computers, encryption is just a delay, not a stopper.
 
The media blows this stuff out of proportion almost as much as they did the terror threat back in the day.
 
The problem is while our privacy rights may be eroding away at a faster and faster rate, the more the media begins to sound like a sensational headline generator before it gets all the facts the less likely it is that serious thinkers will believe anything they say in the future.
 
Thing is, the media goes by info that they have, in reality it's probably actually 10 times worse than what the media knows or is allowed to say. And chances are this spying business it nothing new, it's probably been going on for much longer than we think.

All these oppressive governments need to be completely overthrown, and all at the same time world wide. Governments work closely together these days with this corrupt stuff so the threats are everywhere and not just contained to one country. Right now they're probably actually glad the spying stuff is the big issue these days, because they're working on something much much worse called the TPP behind closed doors. This will be a world wide thing and it basically revolves around the already ridiculously draconian copyright laws but this will make it even worse.
 
steakman1971 said:
This is similar to the "fake" cell towers being deployed. I think a lot of these where used by law enforcement to gather our radio signals from phones.
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Of course they are, it's the same equipment, or at least modernized. It's an upgrade from Stingrays to Stingray IIs with the addition of improved direction finding equipment for location a phone signal's location all packaged in an airborne platform for increased direction finding and search capability.
 
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