U.S. Planes Spy On American Phones

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by HardOCP News, Nov 14, 2014.

  1. HardOCP News

    HardOCP News [H] News

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    You are being spied on everywhere, all the time, by everyone...even on planes. Thanks to DarkStar_WNY for the link.

     
  2. sfsuphysics

    sfsuphysics I don't get it

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    So I use any device which interferes with cell phone signals at all, felony. The government does it... 'MERICUH!
     
  3. chaikovski2002

    chaikovski2002 2[H]4U

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    This is for your own good they tell us! The government has our best interests in mind! If you are a good citizen and have nothing to hide you should have nothing to worry about! Put a gun to your head and call it freedom! MURICA! Oh the sweet illusion of choice and freedom! The inevitible is coming, youll see it when it happens!
     
  4. DarkStar_WNY

    DarkStar_WNY 2[H]4U

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    The first thing the government does when creating laws in exempt themselves from it, which to me speaks volumes about their priorities.
     
  5. nutzo

    nutzo [H]ardness Supreme

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    Doesn't matter since the few times I have flown in recent years, I've put my phone in airplane mode.
    Nothing for them to monitor if there's no signal.
     
  6. DarkStar_WNY

    DarkStar_WNY 2[H]4U

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    The scariest part of all this is that neither party is interested in eliminating these intrusions by the government, and in fact constantly expand them.

    Oh sure Republicans will rip into Obama for these activities and democrats will excuse it, but if a member of the next President is a member of the GOP suddenly the democrats will condemn it and the Republicans will support it.

    Ironically these same politicians and agencies that seek total transparency for the public, where they know everything we do, strongly oppose any sort of move to require transparency on their parts.
     
  7. TwistedAegis

    TwistedAegis [H]ardForum Junkie

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    No no no. This isn't on a commercial flight. This is federal planes in the air, with boxes spoofing cell tower signals, grabbing up cell traffic.
     
  8. temujin987

    temujin987 [H]ard|Gawd

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    3...2....1.... lcpiper will show up in this thread praising the shit outta the government spying on its citizens. about six times per page per thread.
     
  9. DarkStar_WNY

    DarkStar_WNY 2[H]4U

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    Huh?

    Try reading the story again, or for the first time, it's not talking about tracking your phone while you are on a commercial jet but instead using small aircraft to track it as you go about your daily life.
     
  10. MrGuvernment

    MrGuvernment [H]ard as it Gets

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    So where is what's his face again with the "they never spy on American Citizen's or use anything on them" crap....
     
  11. MrGuvernment

    MrGuvernment [H]ard as it Gets

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    Thats the one! "they wont use it, blah blah blah, it is not for American Citizen's cause they don't monitor them blah blah blah"

    :D
     
  12. TwistedAegis

    TwistedAegis [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Don't worry guys! They may hoover up every single piece of information possible, but they're not spying on us! Super-duper-pinky swear, we have all this data but will never use it against anyone!

    I mean, just look at the FBI under Hoover and imagine what he could/would have done with this level of power - nothing, because everything is roses and unicorns, guys!
     
  13. CreepyUncleGoogle

    CreepyUncleGoogle [H]ardness Supreme

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    I'm totally not a cellular phone network engineer, but there's a lot of stuff behind the antenna in a cellular network including like security equipment that only allows a carrier authorized node b to handle signal transmissions to and from handsets. In order for like an individual to not notice something is wrong (I mean if they're actively using their phone) is for the airplane based cell to be part of the carrier network which means moving lots of data and whatever to allow phones to continue to work seamlessly. That means carrier authorization, which is believable, but also a lot of pretty heavy, power-intensive equipment is flying around in the sky. I dunno if this is really that realistic. I mean anyone who's looked up close at a fully outfitted tower knows there's a ton of stuff hanging off it and put inside of it. Plus, IDK how they'd handle hand-off once the plane moves away and its signal gets weaker without someone noticing.
     
  14. lcpiper

    lcpiper [H]ardForum Junkie

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    It's not the phones on a plane that they are tracking, tho they could maybe. They are tracking/locating suspect phones from devices that are used from a plane. They fly around with the box on locating badies they are tracking or hunting for.
     
  15. Ruoh

    Ruoh [H]ardness Supreme

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  16. lcpiper

    lcpiper [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Oh, and this isn't spying, it's not. It's specifically looking for an individual's cell phone by hunting it down by it's cellular identity. It even says that when it connects to a device that isn't the one it's looking for it drops the device and releases it's signal.
     
  17. Ruoh

    Ruoh [H]ardness Supreme

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    Bullshit. I doubt it drops anything. You should (supposedly) know our government better then that.
     
  18. DarkStar_WNY

    DarkStar_WNY 2[H]4U

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    I blame you for his appearance in this thread! :p
     
  19. TwistedAegis

    TwistedAegis [H]ardForum Junkie

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    As did Google's cars driving by looking at Wifi signals. It was all deleted, super serial guys.
     
  20. lcpiper

    lcpiper [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Ignoring the grand ,misdirection by the article's author, do you really think this is a violation of your privacy?

    A plane is up there looking for a specific cellular ID sampling the sea of cell phones until it finds and locks onto the suspect's phone signal. Then they track the guy down through direction finding based off the signal strength and direct the cops on the ground to his location for arrest.

    The article just says it's scooping up your phone information but if they wanted to say it accurately then they would have described it like I did. But they didn't, cause they want it to sound damning, they want you to swallow whole their misrepresented bullshit.

    Does it matter that they have a warrant for the guys arrest?

    When I was driving with my Family on a trip we were on the interstate rolling around Nashville at night, suddenly a bunch of cops cars, mostly unmarked fired up their lights and sirens and basically corralled and herded about 7 cars, ours included, off to the side of the road. I thought it was one of those mass traffic speed trap stunts they do sometimes but then they all started jumping out of their cars with guns drawn and I knew it was something else. Soon enough they came over, told us it was a bust on a drug dealer, and told us we could leave and help slow the traffic so we could safely get back on the road. Now some of those cop cars must have had dash cams right, and they must have gotten my Plate Numbers right, just scooped it up. Well they could use that to track me, that I was in Tennessee traveling South. Is that any different? Is that something that should bother me?
     
  21. lcpiper

    lcpiper [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I just can't stay away, I find it very amusing to see you guys go nuts believing the lies thee reports write, you guys just can't go near a cliff without jumping. It's hilarious.

    You are your own worst trolls.
     
  22. TwistedAegis

    TwistedAegis [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Police dash cams are, right now, scooping up every license plate on the road, not just when they're chasing drug dealers. So, yeah, it should bother you. Running for public office? Hey I have a buddy in the force, I can pull a dump of all your locations and run a crosscheck on the addresses. Wait a minute, that address is owned by a woman who isn't your wife...jackpot! Or maybe you were blowing off steam at a bar with some friends, instead of somewhere else...the possibilities are endless.

    Meanwhile, (and I love that all of this mounting evidence that corporations and governments are scooping up every single bit of electronic data we use/leave behind is "misdirection by the author), I do not doubt they're logging all of call's metadata of non-targets, times, locations, etc. That's all just sitting around, waiting to be used.
     
  23. Technikal

    Technikal Gawd

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    Welcome to the USA. Police and Surveillance State. It's for your safety. We are Professionals.
     
  24. TwistedAegis

    TwistedAegis [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Also, lcpiper, given that "those who are ignorant of history are doomed to repeat it"; how do you square the circle that only 50 years ago the FBI was using wiretaps of MLK, Jr. and sending him letters seeking to get him to commit suicide? It isn't like all of this is hypothetical; this shit has happened, in this country.
     
  25. viscountalpha

    viscountalpha 2[H]4U

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    So they are listening to our cellphones and text messages. What are we going to do about it? oh just complain on an internet forum and then just go back to status quo.

    Fyi, You have to be into some naughty shit for them to start tracking you.
     
  26. lcpiper

    lcpiper [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Oh, and I never have said this you know right?
     
  27. dgz

    dgz [H]ardness Supreme

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    On the bright side, this must be really cheap.
     
  28. lcpiper

    lcpiper [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Oh fucking stop.

    How in fuck do you simpletons jump to the conclusions that I address everything the government does. I don't. Almost everything I talk about is related to the DoD intelligence Services and mostly the NSA. There is a reason, one because I have some experience with it, and two, it's so easy for the reporters to lie about things the public hardly understands because it's so secretive.

    You act like I am working against you but I am not. There are threats to our freedoms, there are people who are doing things they shouldn't, there are people trying to manipulate you. They're doing a great job, and by not actually reading things and looking into what you are being told and challenging what is commonly accepted, you make yourself an easy target. You my friend are the low hanging fruit, the easy mark.

    Wake up, you are somebody's Chump.
     
  29. lcpiper

    lcpiper [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Oh, and no, I am not running for office.
     
  30. TwistedAegis

    TwistedAegis [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I'm the easy mark because...I believe the government is monitoring substantial parts of its populations' digital communications?

    What am I the mark for, a magazine subscription? I don't exactly see a bunch of rich oligarchs fighting against that regime, so please enlighten me what masterful Illumanti-style organization is manipulating me in this way?

    And you're the one who brought up police dash cams and recording license plates, so again, not sure why you're yelling at me. :confused:
     
  31. lcpiper

    lcpiper [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I won't deny it and I have no need to "square it".

    I have no need to defend anything, I stopped defending when I retired from the Army 17 years ago.

    I only point out the lies and deceit of the media when I see it and when I see people accepting those lies. Unfortunately, instead of asking why I think something is wrong all I get back is a label or two and frankly I would have thought by now you would have figured it out.

    You know this article has a great graphic of the planes and the signals and the bad guys and the cops. Does the picture match the written accusation?
     
  32. Technikal

    Technikal Gawd

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    Exactly.
     
  33. CreepyUncleGoogle

    CreepyUncleGoogle [H]ardness Supreme

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    Besides them being the usual cheating, lying jerks that say they like dark hair when they really are drooling over some peroxide blonde slut behind your back which makes them deserve every awful thing that happens to them afterwards, people who cheat on their spouses are a lot more likely to have or eventually have money problems, relationship problems, and sell themselves out to other governments out of desperation. So yeah, I say keep and eye on everyone as much as possible and force them to stay faithful out of fear of being caught and then make the consequences really, really awful like putting "I'm a cheating jerkface!" on their government issued ID and then entering them in a database a lot like they do with perverts that get caught.

    So anyway, if you're not doing stupid stuff, you have nothing to worry about. If you are doing stupid stuff, um, leave your phone at home. You'll prolly still get caught cheating though since the people that do stuff like that are usually too stupid to get away with it when they're dating someone with like half a clue that checks out everything you're doing.
     
  34. Technikal

    Technikal Gawd

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    Americans love the Status Que. It's to hard for most to actually get up and make changes.

    How would you or anyone know when they start tracking someone? What are the red flags? You don't know. No one does. Only they do and I know it changes from person to person, agency to agency. And what policy's and people are watching at the time.

    The bureaucrats, people, geeks and nerds behind all this spying and privacy issues, they are exactly like you, me and everyone on this planet. Just because you work for the Government or NSA does not make you some kind of Demi God of goodness, professionalism, intelligence or righteousness. Otherwise I'd never have a job :) Or 3/4 or hell...all.. of the ex military nerds I know with various degrees of social, emotional, relationship, financial and mental issues.

    Don't put anything past anybody..ever.

    And the longer you are in an organization, eventually the more corrupted you become. Everyone. That is why so many people want to get rid of career politicians and bureaucrats.

    These Agency's are also so compartmentalized no one person or group can ever know what is going on in the others.
     
  35. Technikal

    Technikal Gawd

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  36. spintroniX

    spintroniX Gawd

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    the only threat to my freedom is my government.

    Sure, a terrorist could kill me (because of decades of interventionist foreign policy... by our government) - but it's far far more likely I'll be murdered by a police officer than a terrorist.
     
  37. lcpiper

    lcpiper [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Well, we are replying back and forth pretty fast, and I am pacing myself, don't want to push my 6 post per page limit.

    I don't know who it is, but someone is doing it. Doing a great job too. I am pretty much the only one here that reads this article and says wait a minute, the facts presented don't add up to the conclusions that are pushing out there in a doggie dish for us to swallow.

    All our phones have a cellular ID that is used to identify the phone when it establishes a signal with the towers. Immigration and Customs Enforcement(ICE, part of DHS), have a known suspect they want to get their hands on so they are using the signal from his phone to find him. Those are the facts presented. The rest, is all been conjecture, inuendo, bullshit.

    Here is ICE's website, http://www.ice.gov/ go read their mission, go read what they claim they have been doing for our tax dollars.

    This government documents they linked to in the article are purchase contracts for an upgrade of some of their existing Stingrays to Stingray IIs along with training for four people, less then 2 million so really cheap as government acquisitions go.

    But this report doesn't just talk about ICE and how they are using this equipment so that we can decide if we think it's cool or not, they go way beyond that.

    First this quote from some ACLU dude;
    It's over the top, the reason for putting the Stingray in a plane isn't so they can gather more signals from more phones, it's so they can use the direction finding part of the equipment package to rapidly locate the phone they are looking for. I know this from my Army days, airborne collectors can fly a "track" and are able to sample several hits on a signal from different angles to rapidly narrow down the area the signal could originate from.

    This quote is odd;
    ICE belongs to DHS, not DoJ so I guess they were just asking around hoping that someone might tell them something that would show if more agencies were using Airborne Stingrays.

    Umm, again, is this spying? I am asking you and the others if what they say ICE is using the Stingray IIs for, in planes, is it spying the way the article says they are being used?

    https://www.aclu.org/files/assets/100823_transcription_of_suppression_hearing_28unsealed_pages_11-2429.pdf

    And if you read this linked document the writer provided the cops start by going to the cell phone provider to see if the phone is in use within their jurisdiction and to get them close enough to "walk to the device, to the handset."

    So in essence, these Airborne Stingray IIs allow the cops to bypass going to the cell provider to get the general location. Now I don't know if this is completely legal or not but that is not what I have spoken on. What I have commented on is how this article approaches this topic and depicts what is going on in a way that misleads the reader into believing things are going on that are not actually happening. My proof is in the comment from the readers right on this forum.

    I can't tell you who is behind it or what their goal is. If you wanted to know that you would need to find out who is paying who and for what. I don't think the media is going to report on that though do you?
     
  38. lcpiper

    lcpiper [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Oh no, it's not the only threat. You would have to be a fool to beleave that other countries are not threats to your freedom. All you guys got terrorist on the brain, go visit Ukraine or Iraq if you need a wake up call, just don't expect to make it back alive.
     
  39. chaikovski2002

    chaikovski2002 2[H]4U

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    This right here! Its already happened! September 11 anyone? The truth were the government killed 3000+ of its own citizens by knocking down the world trade center towers. Does anyone honestly still believe the phony terror hysteria and the lying media that Arabs living in caves did it? I love how the goverment pretends to inform us govern and protect us by killing us off.
     
  40. chaikovski2002

    chaikovski2002 2[H]4U

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    You may shit a brick but consider who controls google and wikipedia?