two SR-X or 4P 6174

happiwakko

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Dec 3, 2004
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I would like to build a setup that would get me 500k+ ppd with cpu folding. What are your thoughts?

Two SR-X
Pros:
- overclock
- better for single threaded applications like games
- fit in standard cases
Cons:
- will cost more since the psu, mem, hdd, mb will be separate
- will be limited to 24 threads per box for hexcore

4P 6174
Pros:
- lower cost
- all in one board
- 48 cores - will meet the bigadv requirements for a while
Cons:
- custom water cooling
- hard to find case to fit supermicro board
- not as good for gaming
- not sure if sli or crossfire is supported
 
We don't know what the SR-X will be able to do as far as OC goes.
It might be a high OC, or just 10%. We just don't know.

Also, if you'r building a -bigadv folder. Don't put GPUs in it and don't game on it.

Build a daily driver with a 2600k or 2500k (or similar) and let the box that you are building to fold, fold.
 
What is your budget? What do you want to be able to do once everything is built? What is your goal for ppd?

A couple notes:
- You will be limited to Windows Server OS for anything over a 2p configuration.
- You really don't want to run Windows at all for a folding box, especially a multi-socket G34 box
- 4p G34 boards fit pretty easily in HAF 932/X cases. SR-2's, and presumably SR-3's, only fit in a handful of cases that start at $200
- We don't know much about the SR-3 - mainly, what procs will be available and how much they will be
- 24 threads is the limit of an SR-2; the SR-3 should allow more

I'm with Kendrak - get a gamer and a folder. Your budget will determine what you can have for both of these machines.
 
If your goal is to fold & game, than your going to need to go with the 2P configuration, simply on the notion that Windows 7 will not support higher than 2P, and not to mention, the video card setup.

I agree with Kendrak or musky, if your gonna game, build a gaming machine on the side with a 2600K and your video cards, than toss up a 4P machine with Server 2008, or linux, and fold 24/7. You wil get much better results, and on the side, you can run that 2600K machine while not gaming and get even more points.

MOAR D!
 
If your goal is to fold & game, than your going to need to go with the 2P configuration, simply on the notion that Windows 7 will not support higher than 2P, and not to mention, the video card setup.

I agree with Kendrak or musky, if your gonna game, build a gaming machine on the side with a 2600K and your video cards, than toss up a 4P machine with Server 2008, or linux, and fold 24/7. You wil get much better results, and on the side, you can run that 2600K machine while not gaming and get even more points.

MOAR D!

Or, build a 4P machine for folding and an SR-X machine for gaming (and folding when not gaming).



 
I wasn't going to put any gpu in the 4P box but later if I decide to retire the setup, I can use it for gaming. The folding box will be dedicated to folding. I'm looking to get upwards of 500k+ ppd. Budget will be no more than $5k.
 
One of my 4p boxes is gaming/video/photo/development system part time, and folding the rest of the time. It's got a radeon 6990, Asus Xonar soundcard, and LSI 9265-8i raid controller. I don't use the 6990 for GPU folding.

http://sfield.smugmug.com/Computers/Operation-Black-Quad-G34/18178480_SGvrxc#1396580538_VVnPz8z

I run Windows Server 2008r2 -- appears as Windows 7 from a gaming and application perspective -- but supports 4 CPU sockets. You can use joystick support files from another Windows 7 system. Most games won't consume more than 100% of ~8 threads, so most of the processors are idle. In fact, for certain benchmarks that are not NUMA aware, you can be better off limiting the number of visible cores (eg: running NUMPROC=12).

If you only game or do other non-intensive compute operations on Windows, you could choose to run Windows 7 with 2 sockets effectively disabled.

You can use grub or other boot loaders to boot to other operating systems. I switch between WS08r2, Linux, and a DOS boot environment (for flash updating) trivially.

One downside to a single system is you'll lose some folding points when gaming, etc.

The 4p system is a fine gaming system -- bf3 @ 7680x1600 works very well. That's coming from a SR-2 system in the same chassis as pictured above.
 
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hey sfield, I was looking over your pics the last couple days and was wondering if you were selling the custom waterblock mounts for the g34 cpu?
 
sfield what do you have your 4p clocked at?

I left mine at 3 for its weekend lan getaway... played nicely with the 6970...
 
At the moment I'm not selling any of the block mounts that were pictured in the ATCS840 based system w/EK waterblocks. However, I have raw materials for 8 that are a new design that will support the VRM waterblock in addition to the CPU block. Once those are built I'm open to selling the old brackets and possibly more of the newer design -- I don't have an ETA on this however, since this is one of many low priority background projects.

I also RMA'd two EK Supreme Nickel blocks from my prior SR-2 system -- due to the nickel plating corrosion issue in earlier versions of these blocks. Looking at a similiar approach to mount and test these vs. the other blocks. I don't see a big performance difference between the Koolance CPU370 blocks and the "budget" EK blocks in the ATCS840 system.

The Koolance CPU370 blocks pictured in the "workstation" system don't require any special mounting gear beyond the G34 retention screws that need to be ordered separately.

hey sfield, I was looking over your pics the last couple days and was wondering if you were selling the custom waterblock mounts for the g34 cpu?
 
One is running at 2.8, 1.2125v, 7-7-7 memory, 15:40 TPF on 6904, 845W.
One is running at 2.7, 1.175v, 6-7-5 memory, 16:00 TPF on 6904, ~750W.

Tested, but don't really run at this since the power curve gets silly beyond 2.7:
2.9, 1.2625v, 7-7-7 memory, 15:13 TPF on 6904, 945W.

At 2.8, intelburntest will pull 1050W from the wall.

Will try more once the VRM blocks are in place.

EDIT: what voltage are you running at for 3.0 these days? Power draw while folding?

sfield what do you have your 4p clocked at?

I left mine at 3 for its weekend lan getaway... played nicely with the 6970...
 
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One is running at 2.8, 1.2125v, 7-7-7 memory, 15:40 TPF on 6904, 845W.
One is running at 2.7, 1.175v, 6-7-5 memory, 16:00 TPF on 6904, ~750W.

Tested, but don't really run at this since the power curve gets silly beyond 2.7:
2.9, 1.2625v, 7-7-7 memory, 15:13 TPF on 6904, 945W.

Are these overclocked numbers? If so, how do you do that with a supermicro board?
 
AMD ES chips have unlocked multipliers, making OCing a very trivial matter

While ES makes it possible and tear's utility is a huge boon to us, I don't think I would call it trivial.

Its certainly no Sandy Bridge ;)
 
While ES makes it possible and tear's utility is a huge boon to us, I don't think I would call it trivial.

Its certainly no Sandy Bridge ;)

TPC is a program made by blackshard that allows us to OC our SM & TYAN G34 boards (along with other AMD K10 processor types).

Unless tear's been working on something that he hasn't told me about ;)
 
i need to learn more about folding. i know nothing about it. but the systems are kick ass. nice looking systems.
 
Since ES chips are hard to come by and cost is high, is it possible to overclock non-ES chips? If not, what ppd should I expect from 4P 6174s not overclocked?
 
what ppd should I expect from 4P 6174s not overclocked?

I'm averaging about 19m10s tpf on P6904 on my 4p 6174. I am running DDR3 1333 CL7 ram. That puts my system around 510k ppd.
 
wait, OC a tyan? I thought that was a no-no?
 
Now if only we could find some more ES chips.... lol
 
Just in case you haven't made up your mind yet.

Lets say you fold on a 4p and get 500,000 PPD. Then 3 months from now the SR-X comes out and does 150k better.

Well during that time difference, you produced 45,000,000 points. It will take the SR-x 300 days to make up the difference. I say go for the 4p.
 
4P no question for folding, for multitasking of course a pair of 2P rigs is better, but I am guessing you have many rigs if you are looking to build a 4K + rig to fold on. Comes down to if it is a dedicated folding box, or just folding on the side while gaming.(myself would make a 4P rig and convert it to a crazy game machine later)
 
How does a 4P system convert well into a fast gaming machine? I'm in the process of building a dedicated 4p system as well, but interested to see what other uses a 4p box can do outside of DC.
 
How does a 4P system convert well into a fast gaming machine? I'm in the process of building a dedicated 4p system as well, but interested to see what other uses a 4p box can do outside of DC.

It doesn't, unless you think a ~2.3ghz phenom II counts as a fast gaming machine.:p
 
It would be a gaming beast of your game could utilize 32 threads... :)
 
It would be a gaming beast of your game could utilize 32 threads... :)

I have not seen more than 8 threads used....fyi....
but at 3 3.2 is not bad.... :p
 
yeah, i think my 4p system will be a dedicated folding box. Maybe an occasional esxi lab. Looks like the max threads I can use on a VM is 32 for now, so will probably do a dual boot to Linux and VMware.
 
I wondering if a 4P 6274 IL will be a better gaming box than a 4P 6174 MC since there is turbo for IL.
 
power draw will be much higher, factor that into 24-7 cost
 
For folding, power draw will definitely be higher. But if it was retired to a gaming box, would it be faster for lower thread applications because of the turbo.
 
If you were to stop the client and game then.. perhaps IL could be tiny bit faster.

FAH-wise, IL is as fast (per clock) as MC as long as you use only one CU
in a module. Possibly similar w/other workloads (don't have data for said
other workloads). In other words, 8 "cores" with smart scheduling should
give you same IPC as MC.

Now, wrt the Turbo.
With processor fully (all CUs) loaded (with FAH) I get 150 to 180MHz of turbo.
That's it. Would you get more if only half of CUs were to be loaded.... dunno.
I may test it in a spare while.
 
Coming from an SR-2 at ~4.3ghz ddr3-1870 7-8-7, I saw no reduction in gaming performance going to a 4x 6180 system running at 2.7.

Most of the games I play are GPU bound, not CPU bound, particularly at high resolutions. (2560x1600 middle monitor only everything maxed "ultra" or 7680x1600 three monitors as high as is smooth).


Here's a 40 minute round of bf3 @ 7680x1600, CPUs at 2.7ghz, booted with NUMPROC=12 (only one socket worth of CPUs enabled). The drop off at the end is exiting the game.

EDIT: I'll post some more results later with the CPUs running at a lower clock, eg: 2.4ghz.

First graph is overall GPU utilization, other graph is CPU utilization.
i-7n68PqR-XL.jpg



It doesn't, unless you think a ~2.3ghz phenom II counts as a fast gaming machine.:p
 
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