Two Questions To Fix Fake News

Mugato

Muh Feelz!
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Alright, I’m honestly interested here, what do you know the rest of us don’t? Why are they all going down? What has been uncovered in the last 5 minutes I didn’t see?

Doubt all you want, the pieces are falling into place, and even if he's not impeached, he will be disgraced...and the REST of his group, including McConnell, Ryan, Nunes, Gowdy and the rest WILL be criminally charged. I don't thing The Orange One can provide cover (or pardons) for htem all.
 

TAP

Limp Gawd
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So Twitter just announced they have found 50000 Twitter accounts being used by Russia to spread misinformation. Do we say Twitter is lying and this is fake news or do we take it by face value and accept that a foreign power is weaponizing information?
 

rgMekanic

[H]ard|News
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So Twitter just announced they have found 50000 Twitter accounts being used by Russia to spread misinformation. Do we say Twitter is lying and this is fake news or do we take it by face value and accept that a foreign power is weaponizing information?

What if I don't use twitter or speak Russian? What's their excuse for me lol
 

TAP

Limp Gawd
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News always has been a profit center. Information has had price and value for ages.

The value here isn't necessarily the knowledge or the intellectual property. It's the ability to sway the control of the world's largest checkbook called the US government.
 

Maxx

[H]ard|Gawd
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How to fix "fake news":
Step one - reform academia in the U.S. from the ground-up
Step two - take the money out of journalism
Step three - ignore stupid people and don't encourage them to "rock the vote"
 

Rahh

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The value here isn't necessarily the knowledge or the intellectual property. It's the ability to sway the control of the world's largest checkbook called the US government.
This is fake news! US isn't anywhere close to being the worlds largest checkbook. ;)

Facebook makes me laugh and not with them.
 
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otherweeb

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The value here isn't necessarily the knowledge or the intellectual property. It's the ability to sway the control of the world's largest checkbook called the US government.

Ya, but some here seem to think it's a new phenomena.

"The Spanish–American War (April–August 1898) is considered to be both a turning point in the history of propaganda and the beginning of the practice of yellow journalism.

It was the first conflict in which military action was precipitated by media involvement. The war grew out of U.S. interest in a fight for revolution between the Spanish military and citizens of their Cuban colony. American newspapers fanned the flames of interest in the war by fabricating atrocities which justified intervention in a number of Spanish colonies worldwide."

I can hear Machiavelli laughing...
 

TAP

Limp Gawd
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What if I don't use twitter or speak Russian? What's their excuse for me lol
Who cares if you don't speak Russian. They're speaking English. And they're not on just Twitter. Unless you live under a rock...
 

rgMekanic

[H]ard|News
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Who cares if you don't speak Russian. They're speaking English. And they're not on just Twitter. Unless you live under a rock...

Nope, no rocks here. But no social media either, that's like living under a thumb.
 

jnemesh

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Alright, I’m honestly interested here, what do you know the rest of us don’t? Why are they all going down? What has been uncovered in the last 5 minutes I didn’t see?

All you gotta do is read the news. There are multiple reports of real estate fraud involving Trump properties, multiple reports of money laundering, Pence is going to get nailed for obstruction of justice and perjury due to what he knew about Flynn and when. McConnell and Ryan have both taken hundreds of thousands from Russians in campaign contributions...I could go on and on and on. (or you could just, you know, google it)
 

BSmith

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I have to giggle a bit. "read the news" and what are we talking about in this thread? Oh yeah, fake news! hehe, but by all means,...go ahead and read it. Or better yet, grab it off the Internet because that is also a good,...no wait,...can't do it. lol! :D
 

WhoMe

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They should just buy fakebook.com and rename themselves and then not worry about using these half-assed measures. Don't people lie in their profiles anyway (don't know never use facebook)? Make a big disclaimer on login: "Everything is fake, don't believe a word, have fun."
 

TAP

Limp Gawd
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I have to giggle a bit. "read the news" and what are we talking about in this thread? Oh yeah, fake news! hehe, but by all means,...go ahead and read it. Or better yet, grab it off the Internet because that is also a good,...no wait,...can't do it. lol! :D

That's the whole point to this thread. What is fake news? Is it anything that doesn't favor your tribe is fake? How do you prove what is or isn't fake? What is your criteria for a credible news source? Answers to these types of questions is way more useful than "you're all stupid for listening to fake news rarrr!"
 

Maxx

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The best defense against "fake news" is being able to think for one's self. Unfortunately that's becoming a rarity these days. Nature evolved a social animal that can cooperate, unfortunately that same desire to belong makes people lose their individualism. Without group-think, "fake news" would have no soil in which to grow.
 

DPI

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Well the definition of fake news according to our Glorious Leader is "anyone having the audacity to report on or rebroadcast things I actually said".
 

BSmith

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Looks like I hit a nerve Ok, I'll play.


First off, ask everyone what is "news"? Have to get that established before you can determine what is "fake". It is surprising how many people have different ideas about what "news" is.

I'll play. News is the reporting of facts without interpretation, molestation, regurgitation, or any other words not pertinent to the facts.

Example:

There was an accident involving two cars at the intersection of I10 and 405. Two were injured and taken to the hospital. The cars have been moved out of way and traffic continues to smooth out. Back to you Susan.

Instead of this:

Another accident at I10 and 405 due to the city refusing to change the timing of the lights which will continue to lead to further accidents. The two injured people will probably sue the city as it is their fault for allowing this to continue unabated. City council person "Bob Didit" had no comment on the situation. The Mayor could not be reached for comment, but likely would not have made one anyway. The insurance companies could be looking into raising rates due to the continued onslaught of accidents perpetrated by this heinous avoidance of accepting responsibility for the lack of action.
The traffic problems constanty created by the lack of action on the City council is getting people very frustrated and angry. It would not suprise me to see them picketing City hall over this. Back to you Susan.
 

MavericK

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That's the whole point to this thread. What is fake news? Is it anything that doesn't favor your tribe is fake? How do you prove what is or isn't fake? What is your criteria for a credible news source? Answers to these types of questions is way more useful than "you're all stupid for listening to fake news rarrr!"

The answer would be to read a variety of sources and form an opinion based on corroborating reports. Unfortunately most people do not seem to read more than one or two (usually highly biased) sources.
 

TAP

Limp Gawd
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The best defense against "fake news" is being able to think for one's self. Unfortunately that's becoming a rarity these days. Nature evolved a social animal that can cooperate, unfortunately that same desire to belong makes people lose their individualism. Without group-think, "fake news" would have no soil in which to grow.

This is partially true. We still need a credible source of information. This past election I saw the truth get buried in a mountain of lies. I had college educated friends try to convince me that Pizzagate was real. I had a manager at work try to convince me that Obama was arming the IRS with weapons to enforce Obama care. You can't educate your way out of something like this. This is deeper than that.
 

TwistedAegis

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Yay! I'm not a russian bot!

R Mekanik saying it isn't a Russian bot...is this a Turing test?! ;)

The problem with the news is the problem with everything nowadays, the trickle up of wealth and everything belongs to a mega-corp anymore.

It's also a problem with us. A well-informed citizenry is required for a functioning democracy - we don't want to actually pay money for hard-working journalists telling us hard truths using big fancy words (elitists!). We want 3rd grade level english spooning us whatever sugar-overloaded clickbait passes for news.

Trump did X! Hillary did Y!

X demographic is coming for to do Y thing to Z thing you love! Oh noes!

(slash, did I just write a news bot?)
 

Dead Parrot

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So Twitter just announced they have found 50000 Twitter accounts being used by Russia to spread misinformation. Do we say Twitter is lying and this is fake news or do we take it by face value and accept that a foreign power is weaponizing information?

Don't know about the Twitter accounts but the US has been weaponizing information and interfering in other countries politics for decades. Ever hear of Voice of America? Or recently, encouraging the dissidents in Iran to overthrow their government? Whatever the Russians might have done during 2016 pales by comparison.

Wonder if Twitter used the data metrics gathered from folks that clicked on the Russia links to show them some vodka ads?
 

bugleyman

[H]ard|Gawd
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All you gotta do is read the news. There are multiple reports of real estate fraud involving Trump properties, multiple reports of money laundering, Pence is going to get nailed for obstruction of justice and perjury due to what he knew about Flynn and when. McConnell and Ryan have both taken hundreds of thousands from Russians in campaign contributions...I could go on and on and on. (or you could just, you know, google it)

Even assuming that is all true, the connection between being guilty and being impeached is tenuous at best.

But Trump bashing isn't productive, and we've wandered far, far off topic.
 

Azphira

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112BmZB.jpg
 

mynamehere

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Mainstream Media (and yes, because mainstream is one word, the acronym makes no sense).

Nowadays it is nearly always used as a dismissive pejorative ("Only fools believe the MSM...good thing *I* know better"). See also: "lamestream media."
For clarity's sake, let's call it what it is Fake News. I'd call it FN, but that might confuse you since it also stands for Fabrique Nationale, as in FN d'Herstal.
 

mynamehere

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Looks like I hit a nerve Ok, I'll play.


First off, ask everyone what is "news"? Have to get that established before you can determine what is "fake". It is surprising how many people have different ideas about what "news" is.

I'll play. News is the reporting of facts without interpretation, molestation, regurgitation, or any other words not pertinent to the facts.

Example:

There was an accident involving two cars at the intersection of I10 and 405. Two were injured and taken to the hospital. The cars have been moved out of way and traffic continues to smooth out. Back to you Susan.

Instead of this:

Another accident at I10 and 405 due to the city refusing to change the timing of the lights which will continue to lead to further accidents. The two injured people will probably sue the city as it is their fault for allowing this to continue unabated. City council person "Bob Didit" had no comment on the situation. The Mayor could not be reached for comment, but likely would not have made one anyway. The insurance companies could be looking into raising rates due to the continued onslaught of accidents perpetrated by this heinous avoidance of accepting responsibility for the lack of action.
The traffic problems constanty created by the lack of action on the City council is getting people very frustrated and angry. It would not suprise me to see them picketing City hall over this. Back to you Susan.
Well said.
Though we all know that the real cause was Russian collusion. (I'll show myself out)
 

oROEchimaru

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but in their defense 90% of the crap news:
a. wtf is that url
b. how the f did you even discover this bs

and its left and right and military vets etc. so many people that are passionate get duped by all this crap... and its sad they dont even think about what they are sharing or liking.

however its funny they dont correct their horrible fake apps and ads links because those are revenue streams.
 

TAP

Limp Gawd
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Don't know about the Twitter accounts but the US has been weaponizing information and interfering in other countries politics for decades. Ever hear of Voice of America? Or recently, encouraging the dissidents in Iran to overthrow their government? Whatever the Russians might have done during 2016 pales by comparison.

Wonder if Twitter used the data metrics gathered from folks that clicked on the Russia links to show them some vodka ads?

Sorry but the ole we deserve it argument because we do it too doesn't fly.
 

tetris42

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How to fix "fake news":
Step one - reform academia in the U.S. from the ground-up
Step two - take the money out of journalism
Step three - ignore stupid people and don't encourage them to "rock the vote"
So what you're saying is it's impossible.
 

bugleyman

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For clarity's sake, let's call it what it is Fake News.

Believe it or not, repeating your conclusion over and over doesn't actually comprise an argument. We call that "begging the question."
I'd call it FN, but that might confuse you since it also stands for Fabrique Nationale, as in FN d'Herstal.

...and straight to the man we go, with a side of changing the subject.

I'm curious: Does this sort of thing ever actually work? I mean, in any context? :p
 
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nilepez

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The root problem is that many people are incapable of discerning what is fake news or not, and instead just distrust any source that says something that doesn't fit their own narrative or worldview.
Exactly. I can't count the number of times friends have posted articles that seemed hard to believe and a quick google search showed they'd been debunked (often years earlier). I don't know the solution, but this doesn't sound promising.
 

nilepez

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LOL, netiher of you see what 'the problem' is through your pot smoke haze.

There is no entity unbiased enough to be given the awesome power of labeling what is true and what is not, and certainly not the likes of Zuckerberg or Schmidt.

Is this True: "The Russian Collusion investigation has already resulted in indictments"?

Yes, it's an objective truth, but leaving out the part about those indictments being completely unrelated to anything to do with "collusion" leaves the casual reader with the impression collusion was proven. You can lie without ever straying from the facts, just pruning, organizing and presenting them in a deceptive way to intentionally misrepresent a situation.
No it doesn't. An indictment is not a verdict. And some perceived bias by an individual for a given publication is not the same as fake news, nor is the occasional mistake by an outlet fake news. No publication gets it right all the time, but conspiracy theories and stories made up out of whole cloth are.
 

nilepez

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Doubt all you want, the pieces are falling into place, and even if he's not impeached, he will be disgraced...and the REST of his group, including McConnell, Ryan, Nunes, Gowdy and the rest WILL be criminally charged. I don't thing The Orange One can provide cover (or pardons) for htem all.
He could be impeached if Democrats take the house. The chances of him being removed from office by the Senate are almost 0, EVEN IF democrats win every senate seat in the fall. And yes, if he wanted to, he could pardon everyone he wanted, including himself, but it's not an issue, because with the possible exception of Nunes (and even that's unlikely), there's no way any of them will be charged with anything.

I don't know where you get your news, but you need to look elsewhere (and I'm pretty fucking liberal)
 

tetris42

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The thing is, "fake news" is just ONE aspect of what's going on here. What's really going on is compromised journalism. There are multiple tactics in play:

1. Fake news - reporting something that just isn't true or never happened. Traditionally this is called "lying."
2. Partial fake news - reporting on some things that are true, but simultaneously printing some things that aren't, and mixing it all together. This one is much more effective, because then an article can be simultaneously true AND false, depending on what you're looking at, causing people to argue about it forever.
3. Biased reporting - reporting on facts that are true, but coverage is skewed or colored in such a way that at worst, this can sometimes be considered propaganda. This usually depends on omission of relevant fact.
4. Proportion bias - reporting on something true, but in the grand scheme of things, not that important, then covering it OVER and OVER again, week after week, month after month. This also acts like propaganda by getting people focused on certain topics and not others.
5. Omission bias - this is enormous and most people don't realize it, because it's literally not seen. Leaving out coverage on important news topics because they don't fit the narrative the news organization wishes to maintain. Take a look at the top censored stories of 2016-2017. The majority of that is real news I would want to hear about and actually affects people directly (particularly #1), but if no major mainstream outlet gives this coverage, or reports it once, but then reports about Russian interference / Trump saying something dumb on twitter literally 100x more, then that's an agenda in itself.

"Fake news" is just one piece of the puzzle. Pretty much every major traditionally respected news outlet has been compromised one way or another. It's just a matter of how much and in what ways. Is everything they report false? Of course not. In fact, the majority of respected institutions still report things that are true. But are all of them guilty of tactics on this list? You bet they are. This is why the controversy keeps persisting. Most of the news isn't fake, it's just often focused on garbage or things that don't matter and sometimes presented in a propaganda-like fashion.
 

bugleyman

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The thing is, "fake news" is just ONE aspect of what's going on here. What's really going on is compromised journalism. There are multiple tactics in play:

1. Fake news - reporting something that just isn't true or never happened. Traditionally this is called "lying."
2. Partial fake news - reporting on some things that are true, but simultaneously printing some things that aren't, and mixing it all together. This one is much more effective, because then an article can be simultaneously true AND false, depending on what you're looking at, causing people to argue about it forever.
3. Biased reporting - reporting on facts that are true, but coverage is skewed or colored in such a way that at worst, this can sometimes be considered propaganda. This usually depends on omission of relevant fact.
4. Proportion bias - reporting on something true, but in the grand scheme of things, not that important, then covering it OVER and OVER again, week after week, month after month. This also acts like propaganda by getting people focused on certain topics and not others.
5. Omission bias - this is enormous and most people don't realize it, because it's literally not seen. Leaving out coverage on important news topics because they don't fit the narrative the news organization wishes to maintain. Take a look at the top censored stories of 2016-2017. The majority of that is real news I would want to hear about and actually affects people directly (particularly #1), but if no major mainstream outlet gives this coverage, or reports it once, but then reports about Russian interference / Trump saying something dumb on twitter literally 100x more, then that's an agenda in itself.

"Fake news" is just one piece of the puzzle. Pretty much every major traditionally respected news outlet has been compromised one way or another. It's just a matter of how much and in what ways. Is everything they report false? Of course not. In fact, the majority of respected institutions still report things that are true. But are all of them guilty of tactics on this list? You bet they are. This is why the controversy keeps persisting. Most of the news isn't fake, it's just often focused on garbage or things that don't matter and sometimes presented in a propaganda-like fashion.

Great summary.
 

dj_spanmaster

Limp Gawd
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What you say is definitely true and I completely agree, but I feel the true root of the problem is that the media has long since become a puppet for whomever pays them the most, whatever is the populist opinion of the day. Most journalists haven't had any kind of integrity for so long now that they've lost all credibility they ever had. I think the last time I felt like I could trust the media was probably 30 years ago. This applies to both "sides" if you can call them that (really there's only one "side"). Most people I speak to out there just ignore most of the news they come across these days.

I don't completely agree (I feel it's similar, in that the media seeks news that sells, because profit/capitalism). That said, I compliment highly your use of "I feel" over a definitive "the problem is." I've found this aids critical thinking in all involved.
 

SvenBent

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The root problem is that many people are incapable of discerning what is fake news or not, and instead just distrust any source that says something that doesn't fit their own narrative or worldview.

You are totally wrong.
it easy to conclude because that now what my sources are telling me and it easy to see you are just a shill from {insert opponent group} that is trying to manipulate "us".
A very typical approach from {insert opponent group} to come out with this kinds of BS. That why I never listen to {inser opponent groups typical source of information) because it's easy to see they are wrong if you listen to {insert own groups typical source of information}.
Do not listen to this guy anyone with half a brain would know he is wrong and they are just trying to {insert fear scenario. Preferably including puting or terrorist-related, or taking your money. extra points for all 3}



More serious though. it would be nice if people too a more scientific approach to information, where you are actually trying to counter-prove yourself to avoid bias.
 
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