ZodaEX

Supreme [H]ardness
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I was watching a short infotaintment bit about Modern Art. They were talking speciffically about paintings that appear to be entirely white. Some of which sell for millions. A curator (or somesuch) for a well-known museum stated that she hears people saying all the time that they could have done it too. Her reply was great....
"But you didn't."

Right because if you copy someone else's work then it's plagerism. Imo it's not worth getting sued over that. Just because you can doesn't mean that you should. The curator was likely just affirming his talents.
 

Laowai

Gawd
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Right because if you copy someone else's work then it's plagerism. Imo it's not worth getting sued over that. Just because you can doesn't mean that you should. The curator was likely just affirming his talents.
No.
The curator was saying that effort is required for results.
Those who sit on the sidelines saying that this is easy or that is easy generally have no idea what they're talking about.
 

dandirk

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Why? He isn't a game reviewer, he streams his gameplay. Why does it matter if he streams something else every now and then? Most streamers do this anyway, might as well get paid for it.

So you are saying there is 0 gameplay commentary or opinion during a stream? I am not a stream watcher so I don't know but I cannot see that happening. I assume part of the entertainment is the commentary and energy of the streamer which invariably will include opinion on quality/fun etc.

So sure I probably should have explicitly said so (you knows... the internet)... Though I would think its implied that some sort of opinion (which imo is similar to a review) would be given even during a stream.

Sure I would expect a streamer to try new games... and I would expect their commentary would be just as bias as a review that was paid for. As I said that is fine as long as people call them out if they believe the $$ affected that opinion.
 

NoOther

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So you are saying there is 0 gameplay commentary or opinion during a stream? I am not a stream watcher so I don't know but I cannot see that happening. I assume part of the entertainment is the commentary and energy of the streamer which invariably will include opinion on quality/fun etc.

So sure I probably should have explicitly said so (you knows... the internet)... Though I would think its implied that some sort of opinion (which imo is similar to a review) would be given even during a stream.

Sure I would expect a streamer to try new games... and I would expect their commentary would be just as bias as a review that was paid for. As I said that is fine as long as people call them out if they believe the $$ affected that opinion.

And? Having an opinion and talking about features in a game does not make a video game reviewer. This isn't a case where you have someone that is claiming to do serious non-partial reviews on behalf of his viewers. This isn't a case of paid for journalism. So why should he be called out?

I was watching a short infotaintment bit about Modern Art. They were talking speciffically about paintings that appear to be entirely white. Some of which sell for millions. A curator (or somesuch) for a well-known museum stated that she hears people saying all the time that they could have done it too. Her reply was great....
"But you didn't."

Exactly.
 

Aix.

[H]ard|Gawd
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Next thing you are going to tell me is that Matthew McConaughey was paid money by Lincoln to sit in a car and say cool shit while "driving"

Hey, man, he was driving Lincolns since long before anyone ever paid him to drive one. He didn't do it to be cool or to make a statement. He just liked it.
 

Exavior

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Now imagine you're one of these people that "donates" straight to streamers...then you see he was actually paid a huge sum by a corporation to do it in the first place. This guy certainly doesn't need your peasant cash to keep going.

just like paying to buy stuff in regards to athletes. They don't need your peasant cash either.
 

Aix.

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just like paying to buy stuff in regards to athletes. They don't need your peasant cash either.

They really don't, although at least you're getting a jersey or whatever it was you decided to spend the money on. If you decide to simply wire Lebron James some cash to show your appreciation for his work you're a fucking lunatic.
 

NoOther

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just like paying to buy stuff in regards to athletes. They don't need your peasant cash either.

They really don't, although at least you're getting a jersey or whatever it was you decided to spend the money on. If you decide to simply wire Lebron James some cash to show your appreciation for his work you're a fucking lunatic.

The actual better correlation to subbing for a twitch stream is buying season tickets for a sports team, pursuant to your example of James, that would be the Lakers. The whole reason for the sub is that most of Twitch is inherently free. So these streamers are providing more or less free entertainment (minus any money for sponsorships or ads). They ask for donations in order to keep streaming to the same level and quality.

Now should you stop going to Lakers games because Lebron James just got a ton of money from Nike? Or his many other sponsors? Because that is the argument you are making here. People shouldn't sub because he got a sponsorship. So therefore, the logical conclusion is that people shouldn't buy season tickets to the Lakers, because basketball stars like Lebron James are getting paid by sponsors... And in before you start saying "well the streaming is actively streaming their game!". James is actively wearing and repping the clothes of his sponsors. He is actively making commercials for them. Its the same principle.
 

Aix.

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The actual better correlation to subbing for a twitch stream is buying season tickets for a sports team, pursuant to your example of James, that would be the Lakers. The whole reason for the sub is that most of Twitch is inherently free. So these streamers are providing more or less free entertainment (minus any money for sponsorships or ads). They ask for donations in order to keep streaming to the same level and quality.

Now should you stop going to Lakers games because Lebron James just got a ton of money from Nike? Or his many other sponsors? Because that is the argument you are making here. People shouldn't sub because he got a sponsorship. So therefore, the logical conclusion is that people shouldn't buy season tickets to the Lakers, because basketball stars like Lebron James are getting paid by sponsors... And in before you start saying "well the streaming is actively streaming their game!". James is actively wearing and repping the clothes of his sponsors. He is actively making commercials for them. Its the same principle.

Actually no, I was talking about straight up donating money to the streamer, not subbing or anything else. If you see a street performer you might be inclined to throw a couple of bucks their way if you like what they're doing. You might be less inclined to do so if you found out a corporation paid them $1M to be out there for a day. There's a "starving artist" element to both groups - or at least that's the expectation.
 

NoOther

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Actually no, I was talking about straight up donating money to the streamer, not subbing or anything else. If you see a street performer you might be inclined to throw a couple of bucks their way if you like what they're doing. You might be less inclined to do so if you found out a corporation paid them $1M to be out there for a day. There's a "starving artist" element to both groups - or at least that's the expectation.

Okay, my comment was mainly reflected on the response to your post, note I didn't include your first statement. But since you mentioned it, how would you go about donating money to that streamer? The current format to donate is on their stream, by streaming or donating it goes through the stream platform. Both are really the same concept. You are giving them money for the entertainment they provide so they can continue to provide it.

The correlation is still the same as well. By buying season tickets, or by buying gear you are still helping pay that athlete.
 

Aix.

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Okay, my comment was mainly reflected on the response to your post, note I didn't include your first statement. But since you mentioned it, how would you go about donating money to that streamer? The current format to donate is on their stream, by streaming or donating it goes through the stream platform. Both are really the same concept. You are giving them money for the entertainment they provide so they can continue to provide it.

The correlation is still the same as well. By buying season tickets, or by buying gear you are still helping pay that athlete.

Personally, if I purchase season tickets it will be because I want to go to the games; there's a tangible good/benefit to a seat in the arena or a jersey to wear. If I'm sitting on my couch watching the game I'm not going to pay anything; those players are already paid through any number of other means including big money from television deals - I'm certainly never going to just send them cash. For a Twitch stream a sub makes sense if you're looking to support, but there's also people throwing extra money at these streamers.

And I think that's the difference with streamers: it's a relatively new entertainment medium and most of them start from nothing, just playing games they like and (hopefully) being entertaining enough to gain a following. The people donating want the entertainment to continue and appreciate the work so they do what they can to keep it going...but getting paid $1M by a corporation to post a Tweet and stream a game for a few days means that this particular streamer is hardly in the grassroots support, little-engine-that-could scenario any longer.

And that's not even getting into the issue of him being paid to advertise a game to his viewers while also accepting money from the viewers while he advertised the game to them. The expected product would have been Fortnite play, but instead was Apex Legends due to corporate $$$. It's pretty much the definition of "selling out" - if you care about that sort of thing.

Also:
 

NoOther

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Personally, if I purchase season tickets it will be because I want to go to the games; there's a tangible good/benefit to a seat in the arena or a jersey to wear. If I'm sitting on my couch watching the game I'm not going to pay anything; those players are already paid through any number of other means including big money from television deals - I'm certainly never going to just send them cash. For a Twitch stream a sub makes sense if you're looking to support, but there's also people throwing extra money at these streamers.

And I think that's the difference with streamers: it's a relatively new entertainment medium and most of them start from nothing, just playing games they like and (hopefully) being entertaining enough to gain a following. The people donating want the entertainment to continue and appreciate the work so they do what they can to keep it going...but getting paid $1M by a corporation to post a Tweet and stream a game for a few days means that this particular streamer is hardly in the grassroots support, little-engine-that-could scenario any longer.

Again, if you don't go to the games and just watch for free on the TV, then you risk the possibility that team no longer can or will provide the same level of quality, because their revenue is now considerably lower. Remember, season tickets help pay for that venue they are playing in, they need that venue to actually play the game. Without it, what are you getting on TV? Nothing. So while they also make revenue from TV deals, sponsorships, and swag they still make a considerable sum from tickets that allow the players to continue to play. Now there could be an argument today that teams could get by without ticket sales, and that is true, but then they would have far less revenue. And this really leads us into just how close this is to the streamer situation.

Now, what happens if a streamer doesn't get enough subs? They may now have to get a different job, that job now requires attention they can no longer spend on streaming. That also includes the amount of skill the player has, as they also now have less time to practice. It affects the level of quality of the stream, as they have less time to organize and prepare content/schedule/guests/etc for their stream. The fact they have a sponsor (just like sports teams and sports players) helps them as well. But if the argument is that you shouldn't give them money in the fashion currently used by streaming services, then that is really the same argument about sports. Only the choice for what streamers you support is far more greater than the choice of what traditional sports team you support (IE, hard to support and enjoy the Lakers as a season ticket holder if you live in Florida, although you can certainly still buy tickets or swag).

They are indeed comparable. Are there differences? Sure, but the differences aren't as different as you think. The main difference is how the product has matured for basketball over the years compared to how long esports and streaming have been around. Remember that in the past the primary and really almost the entire revenue for sports was in ticket sales alone.

EDIT: I mean I could also expand this comparison to other entertainment industries and how other artists, actors, etc make their money.
 

Aix.

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Now, what happens if a streamer doesn't get enough subs? They may now have to get a different job, that job now requires attention they can no longer spend on streaming. That also includes the amount of skill the player has, as they also now have less time to practice. It affects the level of quality of the stream, as they have less time to organize and prepare content/schedule/guests/etc for their stream. The fact they have a sponsor (just like sports teams and sports players) helps them as well. But if the argument is that you shouldn't give them money in the fashion currently used by streaming services, then that is really the same argument about sports.

Well the sports analogy was not part of my original point and I was never trying to argue that a streamer should be compared with an entire sports franchise. All those subs and donations people make to their favorite streamers are indeed to ensure that they can keep the stream dream alive and do it full time - and that's cool, and everyone knows the score...until you let a corporation buy your time for huge money, change your product, and use you to advertise to those same people that kept you going before. Subs are fine, but at that point maybe it's time to remove the "donate" button from your channel.
 

legcramp

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Feels good that I have my own mind and thought process and that I do not follow others for the sake of wanting to fit in or noticed or to be one of the cool kids.

The same millions of people that play this game are the same millions of people that listen to the same top 40 music. No thanks. A lot better games out there, and music.

Also, other people can play this game. There are a lot of great players out there. It wouldn't take much to put some of these players under contract and get them to influence whatever publishers games are out there. EA can't put Shroud or Ninja under a contract but they can others who would gladly sign for $100K a year all day long.

I enjoy the game and don't listen to the top 40. It's a good game if you like BR.

Way to be ignorant though.
 

NoOther

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Well the sports analogy was not part of my original point and I was never trying to argue that a streamer should be compared with an entire sports franchise. All those subs and donations people make to their favorite streamers are indeed to ensure that they can keep the stream dream alive and do it full time - and that's cool, and everyone knows the score...until you let a corporation buy your time for huge money, change your product, and use you to advertise to those same people that kept you going before. Subs are fine, but at that point maybe it's time to remove the "donate" button from your channel.

Again, how is that different from a sports star or an artist getting money from sponsors? Tiger Woods play supposedly started suffering when he switched to Nike golf clubs. He did it because of his sponsorship deal. Should people stop paying to see him play because of that?

Also, why remove a donate button just because you have a sponsor? So you should take an option away from fans completely just because their streamer is getting sponsored? So you should take the option away from buying swag or tickets to see an athlete play because they have sponsors? Or you should you take away record residual sales revenues from an artist because they have sponsors? It just doesn't make sense to me.

If people have an issue with them having a sponsor, they have the choice not to donate. They also have the choice to no longer sub. They aren't locked into doing either.
 

Exavior

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Messages
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Well the sports analogy was not part of my original point and I was never trying to argue that a streamer should be compared with an entire sports franchise. All those subs and donations people make to their favorite streamers are indeed to ensure that they can keep the stream dream alive and do it full time - and that's cool, and everyone knows the score...until you let a corporation buy your time for huge money, change your product, and use you to advertise to those same people that kept you going before. Subs are fine, but at that point maybe it's time to remove the "donate" button from your channel.

I don't see where you think there is a difference between the two. Donate you give the money directly to the person, subscribe you pay Amazon who gives them a cut. Either way you are giving them money.

I was the one that make the comparison as there is one. A streamer, an athlete, an actor/actress and a musician are all forms of entertainers. You wouldn't think twice about paying $50 to get some athlete to sign a jersey, paying a musician to sign a poster... Even though they have millions you accept that they still will take your money even though they have more of it than you. Your statement was basically since he is paid by sponsors to do stuff he shouldn't be asking the average person to pay him any money because he already has enough and shouldn't be expecting the average person to give him money as he doesn't need it and you few dollars are a joke to him.

Everyone knows that these people get sponsored to do stuff. That is part of their income, no different that how other people get paid to endorse a product or be a spokes person. Again the fact that Nike uses some basketball players doesn't make you thing you know I better not spend money on that ticket as he already got money from me. Or you know, Comcast pays money to broadcast these games so me paying is them getting double paid for the same game....
 

Aix.

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I don't see where you think there is a difference between the two. Donate you give the money directly to the person, subscribe you pay Amazon who gives them a cut. Either way you are giving them money.

I was the one that make the comparison as there is one. A streamer, an athlete, an actor/actress and a musician are all forms of entertainers. You wouldn't think twice about paying $50 to get some athlete to sign a jersey, paying a musician to sign a poster... Even though they have millions you accept that they still will take your money even though they have more of it than you. Your statement was basically since he is paid by sponsors to do stuff he shouldn't be asking the average person to pay him any money because he already has enough and shouldn't be expecting the average person to give him money as he doesn't need it and you few dollars are a joke to him.

Everyone knows that these people get sponsored to do stuff. That is part of their income, no different that how other people get paid to endorse a product or be a spokes person. Again the fact that Nike uses some basketball players doesn't make you thing you know I better not spend money on that ticket as he already got money from me. Or you know, Comcast pays money to broadcast these games so me paying is them getting double paid for the same game....

All of those examples involve you getting something for the money: tickets, signed merchandise, etc., are all tangible goods. Sure, if you're watching from home you'd probably pay for a cable package and watch some commercials during the game, but at no point would you ever just send a pro athlete some money (like a donation). I can't clarify my point beyond that so agree to disagree I guess.
 

d3athf1sh

Gawd
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Shroud recently fell off his scooter at 55 mph and severely injured his "keyboard" arm. He wasn't wearing safety equipment.

Are we just not gonna talk about this badass? I mean I am picturing The Fonze right about now.

please tell me you didn't just use the words "badass" and "scooter" when referring to the same individual. [H]
 
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d3athf1sh

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Seriously, I watch a ton of YouTube "content creators" and have never given a dime. Why buy the cow?

sucks now that google is pocketing all the money they use to pay content creators. f**ked up actually, because a lot of them deserve at least something. google making up reasons not to monetize videos so they can pocket the cash. prob giving employees bonuses for the most non monetized videos and sh!t
 

pendragon1

Extremely [H]
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Messages
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Why buy the cow?
when you can get the sex for free?! - grandma bruce
ts-and-brodie-at-home_662x250.jpg
 
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