exlink

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Shroud was also paid by EA to stream Apex. I wouldn't doubt most of the top 10-25 streamers were paid by EA in some way to jump start the Apex train.
I never said they weren't also paid. I'm just saying that I don't believe its correct to assume that the $1M investment into Ninja alone is what cause Apex Legends to take off and EA's stocks to jump.
 

NickJames

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I never said they weren't also paid. I'm just saying that I don't believe its correct to assume that the $1M investment into Ninja alone is what cause Apex Legends to take off and EA's stocks to jump.

Not entirely but it 100% helped. When the #1 streamer starts playing it sets off a chain reaction. Top 10? Nuclear. Apex was fueled off viral marketing alone, I never saw a website ad, trailer, or even blog sites talking about it until it already blew up. Then the whole devs tweeting "EA had nothing to do with Apex" just to fan the flames. They knew exactly what they were doing.
 

Burticus

Supreme [H]ardness
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Messages
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And yet no one has offered me anything to watch me play Civ V. Sighs....

I was also going to make a "Thanks, Mom!" comment about parents being wrong about wasting times playing video games, but several have already beaten me to it.

On a serious note... I hope this kid doesn't do anything stupid like not pay his taxes etc. Is there a W-2-Twitch form?
 

NickJames

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And yet no one has offered me anything to watch me play Civ V. Sighs....

I was also going to make a "Thanks, Mom!" comment about parents being wrong about wasting times playing video games, but several have already beaten me to it.

On a serious note... I hope this kid doesn't do anything stupid like not pay his taxes etc. Is there a W-2-Twitch form?

Yeah pretty sure they 1099 you as a contract employee since Twitch does the payouts for subs. Donations on the other hand are done through personal accounts so streamers have to make sure to include that in their calculations.
 

ronin4740

n00b
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Is this why games are now approaching $120 per for the deluxe, super whamo-jamo editions? Is it any wonder I haven't bought a game at full price, on launch day, in about 5 years?
 

dandirk

[H]ard|Gawd
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Besides (the big) discussion on F2P $$$ and micro-transaction manipulation shenanigans...

I don't really see the big issue with this... Good for him. Apex is a F2P game and people can at least give it a good try to make up their own mind without any cost.

That said, his credibility should be put into question if it was a poor game.

I would also add, since there has been discussion on popularity and the masses... This does provide some insight into marketing and how it truly does affect perception and success. Many good games don't have that type of marketing and less success... It can also be noticed and applied to Movies and virtually everything else.
 

Aix.

[H]ard|Gawd
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Now imagine you're one of these people that "donates" straight to streamers...then you see he was actually paid a huge sum by a corporation to do it in the first place. This guy certainly doesn't need your peasant cash to keep going.
 

Stanley Pain

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I'm fairly confident you can say that Ninja wasn't solely responsible for the popularity of Apex Legends and EA's stock boost. When the game came out nearly every single large streamer played the game. Ninja helped but you can't say that the $1 million investment in him was what solely boosted the stocks and kick-started the "Apex Legends money printer". Not to mention I'm fairly confident Shroud has had the highest viewer count for Apex Legends and his channel sky rocketed in popularity.

Agreed. It also helps that they released what I think is probably the best Battle Royale game to date. There was definitely a HUGE hype train when the game came out. Ninja, Shroud et al helped propel that to some extent.
 

criccio

Fully Equipped
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Messages
13,976
What about that one tiktok girl that makes $150k a week with just non nude selfies.

I don't know about you but i'd have pay THEM to take non-nude selfies of me. I can't do what she's doing. Kind of a sad business to be in but hell, that's the society we live in now.
 

bastage

Pics of your wife?
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Mar 4, 2010
Messages
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Apex would of taken off without a dime paid to the top streamers on launch. It's a damn good game and it's f2p.

Would it of been this same meteoric overnight hit, no not at all.. But it's a damn good example in a very popular segment.
 

Advil

[H]ard|Gawd
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Messages
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So let us ask a relevant question... what IS the correct advertising platform in today's world?

I hate EA as a game company, but they were brilliant in this marketing.

Traditional TV ads go to a ton of people who aren't going to play your game and are very expensive. Banner ads go to... well... no one that matters as we all now know. Magazines are obsolete. Movie theater ads are expensive and only hit a certain subset.

So you want to target FPS/TPS players and more specifically your PUBG competitive type gamers.

Where do you advertise outside of your own echo chamber game platform (origin)? Streamers. How do you guarantee a few million people will see your game in action? Pay a popular streamer a lot of money to play your game a LOT.

You just hit your target audience as square on as possible. Each advertising dollar was spent on people who actually WANTED to watch your game be played, or they wouldn't have watched.
 

britjh22

Limp Gawd
Joined
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Messages
385
Is this why games are now approaching $120 per for the deluxe, super whamo-jamo editions? Is it any wonder I haven't bought a game at full price, on launch day, in about 5 years?

No, especially since this is a free to play game.
 

demondrops

Limp Gawd
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Messages
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Because they make money?
one thing to review games in a constructive way. there is a huge difference in playing a game and stealth advertising it simply cause u are paid for it, u kinda abuse the position u are in right. reviewing a game without bias, and playing it because u like it, that is completely different thing. that is normally how any review should work, they use their status to manipulate ppl into a product. i guess not much different from advertising in general, it's not unique to gaming. cant say i hate them or have any ill will no, but it's kinda shady. and i dont think many ppl would say no to that amount of money, probably including me but im not sure, that scenario isnt realistic for alot of ppl anyway. i do like money but i think there is a limit to how much money i consider i need. not all influence is good for us i think.

just like these bloggers/instagrammers, companies they use their popularity to advertise for their product. just recently they have to disclose if it is advertising here in norway. not that i pay much attention, i sometimes look at all the hot chicks on instagram but :p if u are high profile enough there is considerable money involved.
 

Ur_Mom

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May 15, 2006
Messages
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I hated streamers for a long time. Until Fuglet on PUBG. I wasn't very good at the game (still not very good), but watching him play was entertaining and I got a lot of great strategy and other tips. I found some new techniques for playing the game. And you get to see some great shots.

Never liked Fortnite and it's only getting worse from what I can tell. Haven't played Apex at all. Never heard of this Ninja guy. Good for him for making a bunch of money. But, it does kind of remind me of the old .Com bubble. Paying too much for very little content/effort. It's nice he's taking advantage of it, but I just see it as a take it while you can and horde the cash because it's not a sustainable model. Almost like young looking girls doing the "teen" category of porn. Get it while you can! I'd do it if I could... I'm just not very good at games unless you like watching some old dude die a lot and get excited when he gets 3 kills in a game...
 

NoOther

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Messages
6,468
A very popular (and incredibly good, skill-wise) Fortnite streamer. I think he was the biggest one for Fortnite. Getting someone that big in the Battle Royale streaming scene to play your new battle royale game is pretty big.

Basically, he's nothing special, apart from being good at a video game. He just happened to hit the Twitch lottery.

To be fair, he was a pro esports player to start out with. He played Halo professionally and has been on a number of professional esports teams. He also started out streaming other games, mostly PUBG before he started streaming Fortnite. He rose rapidly in popularity on Twitch mainly due to the popularity of Fortnite.
 

NoOther

Supreme [H]ardness
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Messages
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Have you forgotten about the whole hullabaloo when he said he'd never stream with a woman? They're still trying to go after him for that.

Yeah, except that was actually the opposite of a scandal, especially because his entire reasoning was to avoid scandals and rumors.
 

NoOther

Supreme [H]ardness
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Messages
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That said, his credibility should be put into question if it was a poor game.

one thing to review games in a constructive way. there is a huge difference in playing a game and stealth advertising it simply cause u are paid for it, u kinda abuse the position u are in right. reviewing a game without bias, and playing it because u like it, that is completely different thing. that is normally how any review should work, they use their status to manipulate ppl into a product. i guess not much different from advertising in general, it's not unique to gaming. cant say i hate them or have any ill will no, but it's kinda shady. and i dont think many ppl would say no to that amount of money, probably including me but im not sure, that scenario isnt realistic for alot of ppl anyway. i do like money but i think there is a limit to how much money i consider i need. not all influence is good for us i think.

just like these bloggers/instagrammers, companies they use their popularity to advertise for their product. just recently they have to disclose if it is advertising here in norway. not that i pay much attention, i sometimes look at all the hot chicks on instagram but :p if u are high profile enough there is considerable money involved.

Why? He isn't a game reviewer, he streams his gameplay. Why does it matter if he streams something else every now and then? Most streamers do this anyway, might as well get paid for it.
 

Derangel

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What about that one tiktok girl that makes $150k a week with just non nude selfies.

Not sure why its a problem. If a person of legal age, male or female, wants to market themselves off their looks and make money on it, good for them.

More like money is being thrown at them. They certainly don't earn it.

Of course he did. He produced something that people felt was worth giving him money for, there for he earned the money, You are not the sole arbitrator and what is and is not worth something.
 

capnstabn

Gawd
Joined
Jan 6, 2006
Messages
534
I am pretty sure Shroud and Dr. D got paid a handsome some as well. They had been doing testing on the game for some time before it was released. Honestly Shroud seems to be an overall decent person who doesn't rage that often. I think he was just getting burnt out a bit. Hopefully some bed rest does his body/mind some good, and he gets rid of that scooter.
 

oldmanbal

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 27, 2010
Messages
2,600
rip shroud. I went over the handlebars on my bike once due to asshat car going down a steep hill and landed on elbow. My left elbow has the topography of a volcano with a very distinct caldera in the center. Hurt like hell and bled for awhile but not much they can do for it, just some floating bone chips to poke at from time to time when bored.
 

M76

[H]F Junkie
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Messages
12,516
Of course he did. He produced something that people felt was worth giving him money for, there for he earned the money, You are not the sole arbitrator and what is and is not worth something.
I base their value on how important they are to society. If he stopped doing his "work" tomorrow, nothing would happen. But if say an air traffic controller stopped working, he'd need to be replaced immediately. Therefore air traffic controller is more important than twitch streamer. Hell, every daily job is more important. Yet twitch streamer makes 100x more. Fair? No.
 

Derangel

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I base their value on how important they are to society. If he stopped doing his "work" tomorrow, nothing would happen. But if say an air traffic controller stopped working, he'd need to be replaced immediately. Therefore air traffic controller is more important than twitch streamer. Yet twitch streamer makes 100x more. Fair? No.

When has life ever been fair? Also, you drastically undervalue how important entertainment is to society.
 

Krenum

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Messages
18,629
Another shining example of "Its not what you know, but who you know".
 

M76

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Messages
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When has life ever been fair? Also, you drastically undervalue how important entertainment is to society.
Entertainment has value, but is easily replaceable. Some types of entertainers who I value much higher, make no more money than blue collar workers. So it's not that entertainment is overvalued as a whole, it is only some very specific types of entertainment.

If life is unfair shouldn't we strive to make it more fair? Instead of washing our hands of the matter end saying that's how it always has been? If we went by that sentiment we'd still own slaves and have gladiator fights for entertainment.
 

NoOther

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I base their value on how important they are to society. If he stopped doing his "work" tomorrow, nothing would happen. But if say an air traffic controller stopped working, he'd need to be replaced immediately. Therefore air traffic controller is more important than twitch streamer. Hell, every daily job is more important. Yet twitch streamer makes 100x more. Fair? No.

Okay, if Ninja stopped streaming tomorrow, those viewers would start watching another streamer immediately... So now how does your analogy work?

Also not many daily jobs are really that much more important. People like to think they are, but in reality they aren't. There are very few jobs for which life would cease to function normally if someone were to fall over dead.

Compensation is purely based on the amount of money people are willing to spend for something, or the amount of money someone is willing to be paid to do a job. If someone is willing to do your job for less than you, then why should anyone compensate you more for that same job?

EDIT: Also if entertainment were that easy than anyone could do it right? So why don't you? Surely you could just go out there and start streaming and get people to pay you millions right?
 

Derangel

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Entertainment has value, but is easily replaceable. Some types of entertainers who I value much higher, make no more money than blue collar workers. So it's not that entertainment is overvalued as a whole, it is only some very specific types of entertainment.

If it's unfair shouldn't we strive to make it more fair? Instead of washing our hands of the matter end saying "that's how it always been"? If we went by that sentiment we'd still own slaves and have gladiator fights for entertainment.

Nice logical fallacy there.

People place a different values on different things. Being pissy about people like Ninja making a lot of money is a classic "suck it up buttercup" example. Its not like him making a shit load of money is hurting anyone. He's not some big wig billionaire CEO fucking over the blue collar workers you care about so much.

Life is not, nor will it ever be fair. We strive to improve ourselves and our situation. Some people get "lucky" and are able to do so by doing something they love. I'll take it over the actions of some big corporations.
 

Ebernanut

[H]ard|Gawd
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I didn't see anything in the article that mentioned whether he was honest about it being sponsored content. If he was then good for him and the amount is mostly irrelevant, on the other hand if he didn't disclose it and presented it as a game he was playing because he wanted to then he deserves to catch some shit for misleading his viewers and being involved in underhanded marketing.

As for the whole Twitch thing I have a hard time understanding why anyone would want to watch Twitch streams but I have to admire those that make good money letting other people watch them play games.
 

Laowai

Gawd
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Messages
534
More like money is being thrown at them. They certainly don't earn it.
Who are you to say that?
If a company didn't feel there was value in the expense, they wouldn't be likely to spend the money.
I am not a fan of these so-called 'influencers' and they sure as hell don't influence me but perhaps I'm also not the targeted demographic. I'm not very young, not uneducated, salty, and skeptical.
Back on point...whatever they gain is given to them through voluntary transactions.You may not like how they earn money (and I would find it difficult to disagree) but it's earned.
 

Laowai

Gawd
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Messages
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EDIT: Also if entertainment were that easy than anyone could do it right? So why don't you? Surely you could just go out there and start streaming and get people to pay you millions right?
I was watching a short infotaintment bit about Modern Art. They were talking speciffically about paintings that appear to be entirely white. Some of which sell for millions. A curator (or somesuch) for a well-known museum stated that she hears people saying all the time that they could have done it too. Her reply was great....
"But you didn't."
 
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