[Tweaktown] R9 290/x price cuts begin

PRIME1 said:
I think the 970 may have just killed AMD.
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I wouldn't agree with that. A single season lost to nVidia wouldn't necessarily kill AMD.

They might yet come with something like the 390X to stay in competition.
 
madgun said:
You know that u're comparing 4X MSAA on a 970 GTX to 2X MSAA on the 290?

MSAA is very taxing on the GPU and even with twice the amount, the 970 GTX is able to come on top. All this while being on DX 11.

Maxwell has builtin hardware tweaks for DX 12.0 that'll be further exploited once DX 12.0 is out. The performance lead will only begin to grow.

Thats why, at this stage it's hard to recommend a 290 / 290X if you're getting a new card. If u're going for crossfire, sure the price cuts are nice to give u a huge performance boost.
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We'll see. I still don't know if dx12 is just bringing the api level lower or adding new rendering features as well. As far as performance gains though, I'd imagine that the 290/290x will do nicely since reports are dx12 is in large part based off of mantle.
 
Flopper said:
Its like saying DX12 is dead in the water also.
Mantle brings other benefits you cant have with nvidia.
that actually enhance ones experience gaming.

I like when people compare a whole new ARC to pre existing 1 year old arc.
I notice the 290 is several times faster than a 680 from nvidia.
Notice the logic?
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Mantle isn't dead in the water so much because the performance added isn't that big, it's because MS is making their own version of it that will be compatible with Nvidia and Intel which represent 80 percent of the market vs the 20% that AMD represents.

The only reason Mantle has the few games it has right now is because of the pay cheques AMD is giving out(i.e bundles with their hardware plus a kickback).

Any new API,because it requires rewriting a game for that API(the most amount of work compared to adding physics in a game), requires as much support and cross compatibility with hardware as possible to become adopted. Mantle which only supports 20 percent or less of the market isn't worth writing code in unless AMD gives them a paycheck. Developers are happy to write and program code for one API and call it a day. Particularly when directx 11 already is compatible with Mantle compatible hardware.
 
tonyftw said:
In that scenario, then yes it can be fantastic. Though imo, one should be able to afford a better proc if you're able to drop $400+ on a graphics card.
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Anyone actually running a $15 processor with a $200 video card is either stupid or doing it for kicks.
 
tajoh111 said:
The only reason Mantle has the few games it has right now is because of the pay cheques AMD is giving out(i.e bundles with their hardware plus a kickback).

Any new API,because it requires rewriting a game for that API(the most amount of work compared to adding physics in a game), requires as much support and cross compatibility with hardware as possible to become adopted. Mantle which only supports 20 percent or less of the market isn't worth writing code in unless AMD gives them a paycheck. Developers are happy to write and program code for one API and call it a day. Particularly when directx 11 already is compatible with Mantle compatible hardware.
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Please show proof of kickbacks paid.

The majority of AAA Devs don't write and program code for a single API...
 
As has been stated by more than one developer, the addition of mantle to game engines that already use more than one API is trivial from a recourse standpoint.

googe it.
 
Odellus said:
a 7 year difference between the two most important parts in a computer. now i've heard everything.

that's like attaching an F1 engine to a 10,000 pound block of steel.
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You didn't hear everything because BF4 gaming on high/ultra settings is a reality. Now when it comes to your flawed logic, the world has changed with Mantle and it is for the better. There is no reason for any of these setups not to work with an older cpu since the gpu can do so much more compute you would need several cpu to do the same math.

In your comment you pretend that your statement makes sense while in the real world making a device that does several megaflops would outshine and be more important then a device which does several teraflops.

GPU are the only compute devices that matter in a computer setup the rest is not that important any more since it can not compete. That software is slow to catchup is not that important this will change and has been changing.
 
tajoh111 said:
Mantle isn't dead in the water so much because the performance added isn't that big, it's because MS is making their own version of it that will be compatible with Nvidia and Intel which represent 80 percent of the market vs the 20% that AMD represents.

The only reason Mantle has the few games it has right now is because of the pay cheques AMD is giving out(i.e bundles with their hardware plus a kickback).

Any new API,because it requires rewriting a game for that API(the most amount of work compared to adding physics in a game), requires as much support and cross compatibility with hardware as possible to become adopted. Mantle which only supports 20 percent or less of the market isn't worth writing code in unless AMD gives them a paycheck. Developers are happy to write and program code for one API and call it a day. Particularly when directx 11 already is compatible with Mantle compatible hardware.
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Clearly you have no idea on the difference iin APi what it really does. If you are running any Intel I3 or slower I5 you will notice the performance increase. In reality Mantle can shove so much more data around that first generation gaming engines just doubled the batches that D3D does now in DX11. What is not unheard of is near 40K batches for BF4 Mantle this is a lot more data.

What developers from Oxide were showing was that their engine can do 80K batches with more cores to their disposal. This is incredible if you look at the 15K batches (that only people who are absolute rockstars in programming) can get maximum in DX11.

This will thrive under DX12 as well depending on how well MS does but within logic Mantle would still be faster due to compatibility being for GCN.

Since both API are close (very close) it allows easy porting which makes DX12 limited to only Windows 10 and Mantle compatible with 3 OS.
 
290X is still joke at that price since it's equvalent of 970.
290 is bit better as price reflects it's slower than 970 but still you are trading extra performance for 3 free games and space heater in your pc.
 
The r9 290x is actually priced smartly from a marketing and business perspective. Right now the impression (misdirection) is that it offers a good value alternative to the GTX 980 premium and this seems to be what the media is focusing on. However you can point the same argument against it by comparing it to GTX 970 as well as the r9 290. Right now the 290x still functions as AMDs "halo" card with a premium, the 290 is the value alternative.

Seems like the $300 range is currently the "value" segment as currently each companies card in this segment (r9 290 and GTX 970) not only offer better value (capability to price) compared to higher end cards (expected) but cards lower down as well.

We'll have to see if the GTX 960 (and further releases) affect the market segment below $300 for the better. The 285 and 280x are priced too high, for what you get, compared to the r9 290 without going into a Nvidia vs AMD argument. This was basically what people were paying for this performance bracket a year ago before the mining spike and Rx series release. The same goes with the GTX 760s MSRP relative to the GTX 970. End of life clearance pricing on the 770/780 would be variable and dependent on the sale price but they currently in general seem like poor value buys as well.
 
The 290 and 290X are priced decently right now because most 970/980 are selling above MSRP due to limited availability.
 
AMD was also outgunned against NVIDIA during the 8800GT and 8800GTX generation when they had that underwhelming HD2900 and they survived it. What makes people think they wouldn't survive now against GTX970 and GTX980?
 
If nvidia survived Geforce FX anyone can survive anything. That was much worse. It was a new product that was already beaten at release, and nv tried to cheat with tweaking 3dmark results. And now they're still here.
 
Pantalaimon said:
AMD was also outgunned against NVIDIA during the 8800GT and 8800GTX generation when they had that underwhelming HD2900 and they survived it. What makes people think they wouldn't survive now against GTX970 and GTX980?
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QFT. In particular, the R9 2xx series may not provide the best value, but they are still competitive cards when compared to the 8800gtx vs 2900xt debacle.

AMD will bounce back and the consumer (THAT'S US) will benefit as a result. Personally, I can't wait. I've only owned nVidia cards (due to the timing of my purchases) but would not hesitate to jump ship if AMDs next card offered superior performance - which it most likely will.
 
Maxwell has enough die space and TDP advantage to launch another big Maxwell.
Maybe this round might entirely belong to NVIDIA.
 
I just purchased a 970 (the MSI Gaming 4G) right after launch and it is a fantastic card. These price cuts don't make me in any way regret my decision. Basically there are three things to keep in mind:

1. Price/Performance

I think the 970 wins here, especially when you consider overclocking. It is as fast as (or slightly faster than) an R9-290X and still costs $40 less (considering my fancy version vs a R9 with a rebate). The performance similarity is something you see on all the review sites. It isn't some aberration. They trade 3-5fps blows like equivalent cards normally do.

2. Creature Comforts

Low power draw and silent operation are really nice bonuses. I like having a quiet machine, and am running Noctua fans on the radiator and many low-rpm case fans to make my system nearly silent. I don't want a leaf blower for a video card. I don't like hearing it spin up and down when switching from cutscene to game. I wouldn't like buying a bigger UPS to keep my system up when the wall power fluctuates. If I run more than one card in the future, I'd like it to not have to get a huge power supply to accomodate the addition.

3. Exclusives

This one is a wash. AMD goodies like Mantle and TrueAudio are nice, but so is PhysX, DSR, and ShadowPlay. I think these are fairly equivalent, with each gamer deciding which they like more.

I think the 970 is clearly better than the 290X _at the current price point_ if you are comparing card A to card B. If you're adding a second 290X, or have a lot of games that run on Mantle, or in some other way benefit from staying in AMD's ecosystem, then obviously your concerns are different from just comparing the cards. At this point, however, the 970 is still sold out, so I think the buying public recognizes this.
 
Has anyone seen any eyefinity/Surround performance comparisons? This is what will tip the scale one way or another for me. My 6970s are getting long in the tooth.
 
Shadow play is out of the mix, AMD has it too, and in more games..
 
PRIME1 said:
Last I heard it was in beta and you had to use Raptr. It's also lacking features (no surprise).
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Yes, AMD has it in the Raptr app. The Raptr app has the same feature set as ShadowPlay and works with Nvidia cards just as well. AMD likes to keep things equal for all PC users and I like that. Not really into closed systems like Macintosh.

Naturally recording works in CrossfireX. Raptr also supports SLI recording also which last I heard was not working in ShadowPlay. It may have been fixed by now though. Well hopefully at least.

Oh and the Raptr app doesn't cause performance loss in my R9 290. Which I love of course! If I don't want to use the AMD Raptr app then I can use OBS which has an AMD VCE build that uses the video card in the same manner as Raptr to make local recordings and stream to any streaming service.

One thing I wish that the Raptr app allowed is streaming to Hitbox and other services. But I can use OBS VCE builds to do that. Just a double click away. :) Also it is still in Beta as Mantle is. Since they are intrinsically intertwined I don't have issues with it as the Raptr app works.

You should give it a try Prime_1. At least to see what it can and cannot do.
 
No, it does not, neither does Raptr's DVR freature .

However, Shadowplay doesnt work in EVERY game. It works in less games than raptr.
 
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strikerP4 said:
Has anyone seen any eyefinity/Surround performance comparisons? This is what will tip the scale one way or another for me. My 6970s are getting long in the tooth.
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TechPowerUp has the stock GTX 970 three percent slower then the stock R9 290x at 5760x1080.
The stock speed of the EVGA GTX 970 SC ACX is two percent faster then the stock R9 290x at 5760x1080.
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/EVGA/GTX_970_SC_ACX_Cooler/25.html

They benchmark 17 games at 5 different resolutions but they usually just run at max settings using timedemos and some game run throughs.
 
cageymaru said:
You should give it a try Prime_1. At least to see what it can and cannot do.
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That is not something Prime1 is here for just type some stuff that tends to be not informative or on topic in most cases
wonderfield said:
ShadowPlay does not require game support.
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Ooh look someone else with the same method of operation.

Try raptr before you try and trash it on the forums.
 
I'm not sure if I want to go with another 290 or replace it with a more power efficient 970. I only got it a few months ago but the urge is sooooo strong!
 
depends if you plan on upgrading mid-2015 for the 390 or not.

If you plan on upgrading, go for the 970, if not, go for the xfire.
 
The Mac said:
No, it does not, neither does Raptr.

However, Shadowplay doesnt work in EVERY game. It works in less games than raptr.
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http://www.anandtech.com/show/8299/amd-gaming-evolved-client-40-released

Otherwise our other 11 games were detected just fine. And indeed the Raptr team is claiming that they now support 5000 games, versus what Raptr claims is 169 for NVIDIA’s GeForce Experience (a claim NVIDIA strongly disagrees with since they don't even use whitelists). In any case, at 5000 games we have no way to fully validate this claim – and meanwhile we’d note that GeForce Experience worked with all 12 of our test games out of the box – but it’s worth pointing out that for technical reasons it’s important for GEC to support so many games. Since GEC lacks a fallback measure equivalent to GeForce Experience’s desktop capture mode and doesn’t officially support adding unsupported games, a large supported games list is necessary in this case to enable recording of as many games as possible.
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First you are just regurgitating AMD marketing. NVIDIA does not require a supported game list like AMD does, so theoretically it supports an infinite number of games. Second the lack of desktop capture is why people dismiss Game DVR.

Either way it's beta like Mantle, so it's not a valid selling point for an AMD card.
 
I've not had a chance to try out Raptr, but I do like Shadowplay. I've never had an issue with it working on my SLI'd 780s. I've not came across a game that it won't work with yet. I even use it to record Youtube videos (put in fullscreen and it's just like game recording), I usually make a playlist of videos for my phone/tablet, for when I go to the dark places of the world where internet is not an option, and I need something to help pass the time.

On topic, the price cuts are cool, but it seems like they do need to drop the 290x a tad bit more. But maybe they will use the "free games" to justify the extra cost. I'm actually in the market for a couple lower end AMD cards. Wish they would do some more price cutting there.
 
DraginDime said:
I even use it to record Youtube videos (put in fullscreen and it's just like game recording), I usually make a playlist of videos for my phone/tablet, for when I go to the dark places of the world where internet is not an option, and I need something to help pass the time.
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You can actually download youtube videos directly. There's even browser plugins or phone/tablet apps that make it rather simple to do.
 
PRIME1 said:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/8299/amd-gaming-evolved-client-40-released



First you are just regurgitating AMD marketing. NVIDIA does not require a supported game list like AMD does, so theoretically it supports an infinite number of games. Second the lack of desktop capture is why people dismiss Game DVR.

Either way it's beta like Mantle, so it's not a valid selling point for an AMD card.
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raptr's DVR function works perfectly fine for games that are not in the raptr's supported list, it isn't reliant on the main client.

I use it for several that arent in the list.

Anadtech clearly didnt know what they were doing. As a matter of fact, ive recorded bioshock infinite with zero problems.

The Supported game list is strictly for the integration and tracking functions.

It is fully functional for me, i do not consider it beta in the slighest.

You probobly shouldnt comment on software you neither use, nor know anything about.
 
pandora's box said:
Mantle is dead in the water imo:

MsIxNMa.gif
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What CPU?
 
Could they feasibly drop those two cards (290 and 290X) another $100? If they did they would sell out I would think. Therefore they would clear out old stock preparing them for their new redesign/die shrink. I would buy two 290s and Crossfire them for the heck of it on an extra rig. I think many others would too.
 
DaedalusHelios said:
Could they feasibly drop those two cards (290 and 290X) another $100? If they did they would sell out I would think. Therefore they would clear out old stock preparing them for their new redesign/die shrink. I would buy two 290s and Crossfire them for the heck of it on an extra rig. I think many others would too.
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Even at $300 you would be better off getting a 970 for only $30 more. They need to drop it $150.
 
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