TSMC will produce 16nm FinFET Nvidia Geforce GPUs – No Word For AMD Radeons

I am not optimistic that production of 16nm GPUs is going to go smoothly, unfortunately :(
 
TSMC, didn't they promise 20nm a couple of years ago? How did that go?
 
PRIME1 said:
http://wccftech.com/tsmc-produce-16nm-finfet-nvidia-gpus/

What's interesting is that "Mass production is scheduled to start sometime in mid 2015"

Pascal on 16nm with 3D ram and NVlink just in time for xmas. :cool:
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This has been known for some time. June-July volume ramp for 16FinFet. +50tapeouts before the end of 2015.

Keep dreaming about Pascal before end of 2015... It is a 2016 product.
You will likely see a 16FinFet Maxwell in 2H '15.
ETA- and by Maxwell I mean a 16FinFet GM204.

xIronCrossx said:
TSMC, didn't they promise 20nm a couple of years ago? How did that go?
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Just fine, depending on who you are.
 
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20nm low power node was fine, I don't think they even have a 20nm high power node running do they?
 
Rizen said:
20nm low power node was fine, I don't think they even have a 20nm high power node running do they?
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20SOC. They cancelled 20G and redid 20LP to morph into 20SOC, though it keeps much of the same design rules.

They decided to offer only one 20nm planar process to devote resources to FinFet.
 
16nmFinFet is not the same as 16nmFinFet+. Nvidia could definitely do 16nmFF in 2015. A couple months ago it was announced 16nmFF got delayed 4-6 months (best-worst) most likely to improve yield, so that falls well in line with a Spring/Fall release.

Unless we're playing Nvidia skips 20nm for 16nm but now is skipping 16nm for 16nmFF+ game. Then we'd just be pulling stuff out our ass until we have something concrete. AMD will tell us whether 20nm was ever possible and whether it showed improvements. By TSMC's own mouth it did provide benefits, just not enough for them to make a high-power part.
 
I heard something regarding AMD just parnetup with new company to produce 16nm chip. Maybe that is the route they are going.
 
PRIME1 said:
http://wccftech.com/tsmc-produce-16nm-finfet-nvidia-gpus/ What's interesting is that "Mass production is scheduled to start sometime in mid 2015"
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Since mass production is scheduled for mid 2015, we should see 16nm FinFET GPUs by Q3 2015 at the earliest.

So it could be just exactly 1yr from now, holiday season '16. But be not overoptimistic and realistic, add accumulating delays here and there of up to 6 m and think the first chip will not be the monster one but mid level, you then arrive at Q3/16 for the real stuff.
 
LordEC911 said:
This has been known for some time. June-July volume ramp for 16FinFet. +50tapeouts before the end of 2015.

Keep dreaming about Pascal before end of 2015... It is a 2016 product.
You will likely see a 16FinFet Maxwell in 2H '15.
ETA- and by Maxwell I mean a 16FinFet GM204.



Just fine, depending on who you are.
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This begs the question - so what are we going to get in 2015?
 
gungravevn said:
I heard something regarding AMD just parnetup with new company to produce 16nm chip. Maybe that is the route they are going.
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wonder if AMD is going with globalfoundries(technically licensed version of Samsungs 16/14 nm finFETS process) this time since the production time lines sort of match up with when AMD's planning to release the 300 series unlike TSMC's.

or maybe i'm completely wrong and just ignore this, lol.
 
Trackr said:
This begs the question - so what are we going to get in 2015?
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AMD's new family on 28nm.
Nvidia's GM200/210 on 28nm.
Possibly a GM204 or GM206 like chip on 16FinFet in 2H '15 and maybe AMD's 28nm 350-450mm2 ASIC shrunk to 16FinFet.
 
wirk said:
Since mass production is scheduled for mid 2015, we should see 16nm FinFET GPUs by Q3 2015 at the earliest.

So it could be just exactly 1yr from now, holiday season '16. But be not overoptimistic and realistic, add accumulating delays here and there of up to 6 m and think the first chip will not be the monster one but mid level, you then arrive at Q3/16 for the real stuff.
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Technically Q3 starts in July. It would not surprise me if the new cards arrive in September/October they seem to like launching before black friday. Don't forget in February Maxwell will already be a year old and NVIDIA seems to be on a 18 month schedule with their architectures.
 
sirmonkey1985 said:
wonder if AMD is going with globalfoundries(technically licensed version of Samsungs 16/14 nm finFETS process) this time since the production time lines sort of match up with when AMD's planning to release the 300 series unlike TSMC's.

or maybe i'm completely wrong and just ignore this, lol.
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Ever since AMD bought ATI, people have been claiming that AMD would build GPUs at its own fabs (and then GF). It's just not gonna happen. No matter how bad TSMC is, GF is worse.
 
Stoly said:
Ever since AMD bought ATI, people have been claiming that AMD would build GPUs at its own fabs (and then GF). It's just not gonna happen. No matter how bad TSMC is, GF is worse.
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Not really. The main issue was GF was lagging so far behind in process tech.
FinFets has pretty much leveled the playing field, Intel still has a lead, but EUV and other highly complicated required technologies will decrease the gap even more in the future.

There are numerous advantages that GF can offer AMD that TSMC just can't.
 
Strange that AMD is still missing from the list all this time later... excited to see news about the process coming out, though. Looking like 16nm finfet Pascal for me in perhaps early-mid Q2 2016, unless nvidia pulls off something incredible with GM200 above and beyond what I'd expect on 28nm. For now, though, my 1500mhz+ core GTX 970 4GB cards at very quiet noise levels and low heat output/voltage are handling 4K for me quite well!
 
GoldenTiger said:
Strange that AMD is still missing from the list all this time later... excited to see news about the process coming out, though. Looking like 16nm finfet Pascal for me in perhaps early-mid Q2 2016, unless nvidia pulls off something incredible with GM200 above and beyond what I'd expect on 28nm. For now, though, my 1500mhz+ core GTX 970 4GB cards at very quiet noise levels and low heat output/voltage are handling 4K for me quite well!
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http://wccftech.com/amd-talks-16nm-14nm-10nm-processors-partners-synopsys-build/
 
LordEC911 said:
Not really. The main issue was GF was lagging so far behind in process tech.
FinFets has pretty much leveled the playing field, Intel still has a lead, but EUV and other highly complicated required technologies will decrease the gap even more in the future.

There are numerous advantages that GF can offer AMD that TSMC just can't.
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http://seekingalpha.com/article/272...uisse-technology-conference-transcript?page=1

http://wccftech.com/amd-global-foundries-cpus-gpus-apus-alliance-samsung-critical/

Seems that AMD is going with GF and Samsung this generation.
 
LordEC911 said:
Should probably follow the sources to the original source and read Lisa's actual statement.
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Well, 8 months ago Lisa Su said

Lisa Su – SVP and General Manager of Global Business Units
David, I think what I said earlier sort of what we’re doing in terms of technology strategy, we are 28 this year, we have 20-nanometer in design, and then FinFET thereafter. So that’s the overall product portfolio. via Seeking Alpha


Read more: http://wccftech.com/amd-stick-28nm-products-year-20nm-designed-2015-finfet/#ixzz3L415GU00
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I would guess that in design since 8 months ago does indeed give chance for 20nm product to show up next year, specially as again, they have it in between 28nm and FinFET.
 
Revdarian said:
Well, 8 months ago Lisa Su said



I would guess that in design since 8 months ago does indeed give chance for 20nm product to show up next year, specially as again, they have it in between 28nm and FinFET.
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20nm for some products...
 
LordEC911 said:
Update on that- Appears that AMD's ARM-based products will be 20nm.
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Got a reference? That could make a lot of sense since the arm line is distinct from the other product lines and not encumbered by where said lines are in development.
 
Darakian said:
Got a reference? That could make a lot of sense since the arm line is distinct from the other product lines and not encumbered by where said lines are in development.
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Was posted on B3d. Supposedly came from Stilt who is very much involved in the industry and with AMD.

TaintedSquirrel said:
Oh this thread is scaring me.
Are the rumored 380X/390X parts in February not 20nm?
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Nope. 28nm. Toss up between TSMC and GloFo, depending on which rumors you listen to.
 
LordEC911 said:
Unlikely since 14LPE and 14LPP are not suitable for high performance parts.
There is definitely a large 28nm GPU coming from AMD.
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I will have to disagree. AMD has said numerous times that 20nm will ship in Q1 2015. Which is between Jan-Mar.

releasing a 28nm part with HBM would be stupid. Best way to sell a product is to have the top tech in the device.

If performance is there, how could you not want to buy a 20nm HBM graphics card over a 28nm GDDR5 card? Specially with bridge less crossfire?

Interesting times ahead.
 
DASHlT said:
I will have to disagree. AMD has said numerous times that 20nm will ship in Q1 2015. Which is between Jan-Mar.
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Where? They never said that.

DASHlT said:
releasing a 28nm part with HBM would be stupid. Best way to sell a product is to have the top tech in the device.
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There is absolutely no reason to release on 20nm when FinFet is right around the corner.

DASHlT said:
If performance is there, how could you not want to buy a 20nm HBM graphics card over a 28nm GDDR5 card? Specially with bridge less crossfire?
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If there performance is there, why would you spend more than double the cost on designing and manufacturing a 20nm HBM graphics card with lackluster yields when 28nm will do fine and 16FinFet less than 6 months away?
 
LordEC911 said:
Where? They never said that.
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http://wccftech.com/lisa-su-explains-future-amd/

Next few quarters is Q4 2014 and Q1 2015.

LordEC911 said:
There is absolutely no reason to release on 20nm when FinFet is right around the corner.
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You do realize AMD tapped out on Fiji awhile ago? So if it was 20nm then, its going to be 20nm now. And its been known that AMD has been working on 20nm and yields for awhile.

LordEC911 said:
If there performance is there, why would you spend more than double the cost on designing and manufacturing a 20nm HBM graphics card with lackluster yields when 28nm will do fine and 16FinFet less than 6 months away?
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You have proof 16finfet is 6 months away? And AMD did the same thing when 28nm came out, yields weren't the greatest but they still released it and it was known as a great chip which was sold out everywhere.

Remember the 7970 was out on 28nm while the 580 GTX was 40nm.

Looks like AMD will be 20nm while the 980 GTX is 28nm.
 
From this article here http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/nvidia-moving-to-tsmc-16nm-finfet-process.html

TSMC confirmed NVIDIA will be using this process. TSMC's 16nm FinFET process has passed full reliability qualification, and nearly 60 customer designs are currently scheduled to tape out by the end of 2015, the company announced previously.

So Nvidia will tape out 16nm sometime by the end of next year? Where did you get 6 months? Maybe 6 months before they tape out the first GPU?
 
DASHlT said:
http://wccftech.com/lisa-su-explains-future-amd/

Next few quarters is Q4 2014 and Q1 2015.
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You should probably read the source material and not wccf's convoluted misinterpretation.
AMD has never talked about a specific product on 20nm. Just that there will be "some" products on 20nm.


DASHlT said:
You do realize AMD tapped out on Fiji awhile ago? So if it was 20nm then, its going to be 20nm now. And its been known that AMD has been working on 20nm and yields for awhile.
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Yes, I am quite aware of the entire process that GPUs go through.
It isn't 20nm.

DASHlT said:
You have proof 16finfet is 6 months away? And AMD did the same thing when 28nm came out, yields weren't the greatest but they still released it and it was known as a great chip which was sold out everywhere.

Remember the 7970 was out on 28nm while the 580 GTX was 40nm.

Looks like AMD will be 20nm while the 980 GTX is 28nm.
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Yes, go read any press release from the last month on TSMC's 16FinFet. It goes into mass production in July '15.

28nm to 20nm from TSMC isn't really comparable to 40nm to 28nm.
40-28 didn't double fixed design/manufacturing costs nor did wafer prices increase 50%.
Throw in the fact that 20SOC isn't exactly the best process to make a GPU on with minimal speed/power benefits, ~15-20%, and having to fight the big dogs for wafers.

It simply doesn't make sense. Especially when any work you did on a 20nm ASIC can be done on 16FinFet with minimal effort/redesign, according to TSMC.

DASHlT said:
From this article here http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/nvidia-moving-to-tsmc-16nm-finfet-process.html

TSMC confirmed NVIDIA will be using this process. TSMC's 16nm FinFET process has passed full reliability qualification, and nearly 60 customer designs are currently scheduled to tape out by the end of 2015, the company announced previously.

So Nvidia will tape out 16nm sometime by the end of next year? Where did you get 6 months? Maybe 6 months before they tape out the first GPU?
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*facepalm* TSMC's 16FinFet starts ramping mass production in July '15.
You can tapeout an ASIC before the process is in mass production FYI.
TSMC's 16FinFet already had something like 20 tapeouts before the end of '14.
 
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LordEC911 said:
You should probably read the source material and not wccf's convoluted misinterpretation.
AMD has never talked about a specific product on 20nm. Just that there will be "some" products on 20nm.



Yes, I am quite aware of the entire process that GPUs go through.
It isn't 20nm.


Yes, go read any press release from the last month on TSMC's 16FinFet. It goes into mass production in July '15.

28nm to 20nm from TSMC isn't really comparable to 40nm to 28nm.
40-20 didn't double fixed design/manufacturing costs not did wafer prices increase 50%.
Throw in the fact that 20SOC isn't exactly the best process to make a GPU on with minimal speed/power benefits, ~15-20%, and having to fight the big dogs for wafers.

It simply doesn't make sense.


*facepalm* TSMC's 16FinFet starts ramping mass production in July '15.
You can tapeout an ASIC before the process is in mass production FYI.
TSMC's 16FinFet already had something like 20 tapeouts before the end of '14.
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Okie buddy :) Marking this post when the 20nm gets released in in Q1 2015
 
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