TSMC to prioritize production of chips for cars, not your next graphics card

polonyc2

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TSMC, of course, is the Taiwanese foundry that currently makes most of AMD’s CPUs and GPUs, not to mention Apple’s smartphone chips and the new Apple M1 processor...according to CNBC, TSMC plans to prioritize new production capacity in favor of car makers

The move comes as pressure reportedly mounts at government level for TSMC to prioritize chips intended for cars...the global auto industry is currently suffering from significant production delays due to the shortage of chips, leading Germany’s Economy Minister Peter Altmaier writing to his Taiwanese counterpart requesting that TSMC, a key supplier of semiconductors for cars, focus on production for cars above all...similar requests have reportedly been sent from the US, the European Union and Japan...

https://www.pcgamer.com/tsmc-to-prioritise-production-of-chips-for-cars-not-your-next-graphics-card/
 

Balkroth

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One thing that doesn't get talked about much with all the foundry issues is that this, combined with everyone upgrading their networks for WFH stuff, this is absolutely killing high end networking lead times. For >=100Gbit switches/routers/linecards/etc you're looking at 4 months - a year of lead time currently from OEMs since they all use broadcom typhoon series chips.
 

Lakados

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One thing that doesn't get talked about much with all the foundry issues is that this, combined with everyone upgrading their networks for WFH stuff, this is absolutely killing high end networking lead times. For >=100Gbit switches/routers/linecards/etc you're looking at 4 months - a year of lead time currently from OEMs since they all use broadcom typhoon series chips.
Yeah I’m waiting on an order of 52 port DLink Nuclias switches, fortunately I’m not in a rush.
 

Armenius

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No but TSMC is also currently constrained by raw materials, so they aren’t running all their fabs at 100%, their 7 and 5 are going strong but their older processes are getting the left overs.
Ja, apparently these car chips are produced on 200mm wafers instead of the more common 300mm wafers.
 

Krenum

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Makes sense, people need to get to point A & B more than they need graphics cards. Cars also offer companies more revenue streams, car payments, ect...
 

GSDragoon

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Makes sense, people need to get to point A & B more than they need graphics cards. Cars also offer companies more revenue streams, car payments, ect...
I use my car about once, maybe twice a week at most. I imagine in many cases car usage is down a lot.

This probably has to do more with car manufacture revenue and less about needing to meet demands. I thought dealerships were struggling to sell cars now.
 
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Lakados

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I use my car about once, maybe twice a week at most. I imagine in many cases car usage is down a lot.

This probably has to do more with car manufacture revenue and less about needing to meet demands. I thought dealerships were struggling to sell cars now.
In Asia demand is up, and North American imports are down.
 

Lakados

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Ja, apparently these car chips are produced on 200mm wafers instead of the more common 300mm wafers.
Yeah refined 200mm on the larger process create things that are tanks. They easily last in the kinds of situations you would find a car in and can easily expect it to take abuse for 15 years with no issues. The smaller processes are relatively fragile in comparison, it’s a trade off smaller, faster, more energy efficient but a comparatively smaller operating tolerance window.
 

LukeTbk

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I use my car about once, maybe twice a week at most. I imagine in many cases car usage is down a lot.

This probably has to do more with car manufacture revenue and less about needing to meet demands. I thought dealerships were struggling to sell cars now.
Feel like this car making is a giant industry with a lot of well paid jobs with benefit in Germany and the other country making those demands (like US/Japan) and about none from video cards making I would imagine.

Car sell in the USA was only terrible early pandemy I think (with a stronger than expected december):
R_usa_vehicle_1D013A2B-9B14-4F8A-8BB4-3E13DA2B0EFF.png

comparison-of-us-vehicle-production.png

Same in Europe:
monthly-car-registrations-europe.png

outside April/may it was not good but not spectacularly bad.
 

Marees

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Tesla to use Navi 23 class GPU in its cars. You can even play cyberpunk 2077 on it

Tesla has announced a new version of the Model S that not only features a completely redesigned interior and stalk-less steering wheel, but an infotainment center that boasts just as much graphics power as a PlayStation 5 (10.3 TFLOPS). According to promotional images and a tweet from CEO Elon Musk, the system is powerful enough to play modern games such as Cyberpunk 2077 and The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt, which should be a great way to kill time while charging and idling in the parking lot.

https://www.thefpsreview.com/2021/0...ay-cyberpunk-2077-reportedly-amd-gpu-powered/

Patrick Schur posted a diagram, which appears to confirm that Tesla will be using AMD Navi 23 GPU for its onboard entertainment and (possibly) navigation systems.

https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-nav...bp10NWez6bfgJWiI14v04O21WhHCgrxuJlj9VQ_XMnCXs
 

Marees

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The reason we’re in this mess in the first place, ironically, is that the market for cars bounced back faster than expected. During the pandemic, TSMC reduced the capacity it allocated for vehicle production after auto sales cratered. Now that vehicle sales are ticking up again, auto manufacturers need that capacity back. Problem is, it’s still in use producing everything else.

there’s not enough chip capacity to go around, according to the Financial Times. Automakers have lobbied governments and chip manufacturers for help worldwide.

TSMC has pledged to expedite orders for auto manufacturers, and other foundries across the world are likely making similar vows.

The fear of an automotive slowdown has led governments to put an unusual amount of pressure on TSMC, according to the report. Companies in the US, Japan, and Europe have reportedly engaged in direct talks with the foundry, as well as raising the issue with Taiwan’s government.

“We believe that as economies are struggling due to the pandemic, governments, especially in the countries hit worst by the virus, see car demand as a rare growth impulse important for their overall economies”
~ an unnamed Taiwanese official told the Financial Times.

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme...-automotive-chip-shortage-could-impact-phones


Samsung Believes the Automotive Chip Shortage Could Impact Phones​

“While our capacity is fully utilized with demand from every sector, TSMC is reallocating our wafer capacity to support the worldwide automotive industry.”
 

Mega6

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Automotive Industry >> Gaming Industry

It doesn't matter that auto demand is down, the point being the STILL DONT HAVE ENOUGH CHIPS.
The supply chain is horribly broke.
 

cybereality

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To be fair, automobiles are probably more important to human civilization then, um, people pretending to drive in a simulation. But what do I know?
 

Armenius

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Automotive Industry >> Gaming Industry

It doesn't matter that auto demand is down, the point being the STILL DONT HAVE ENOUGH CHIPS.
The supply chain is horribly broke.
Horribly broke isn't the half of it. Maybe manufacturers should look to other fabs instead of constantly leaning on TSMC. And Intel thinks their problems are going to go away by getting on TSMC's 3nm when that capacity is already oversold yet again.
 

Aurelius

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It is heartening to see most people here recognize the real priorities. But I have seen some people get genuinely upset that TSMC would prioritize basic transportation over parts gaming PCs. A reflection of that weird mindset where PC gaming is the center of the universe and all industries must bow toward it. Folks... if the car industry struggles and people can't get transportation to go to work, those people can't afford gaming PCs.
 

noko

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It is heartening to see most people here recognize the real priorities. But I have seen some people get genuinely upset that TSMC would prioritize basic transportation over parts gaming PCs. A reflection of that weird mindset where PC gaming is the center of the universe and all industries must bow toward it. Folks... if the car industry struggles and people can't get transportation to go to work, those people can't afford gaming PCs.
It is more than just gaming PCs, CPUs and GPUs are made for all sorts of stuff. Well maybe Tesla will get first dibs on RDNA2 22 for their vehicles :)
 

mouacyk

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It is heartening to see most people here recognize the real priorities. But I have seen some people get genuinely upset that TSMC would prioritize basic transportation over parts gaming PCs. A reflection of that weird mindset where PC gaming is the center of the universe and all industries must bow toward it. Folks... if the car industry struggles and people can't get transportation to go to work, those people can't afford gaming PCs.
Life is but a perma-death game.
 

os2wiz

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It is more than just gaming PCs, CPUs and GPUs are made for all sorts of stuff. Well maybe Tesla will get first dibs on RDNA2 22 for their vehicles :)
Nonsense. Tesla does not sell enough cars to cause a shortage of gpus.
 

TordanGow

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I'll just keep my cars that I own and paid off. Thanks. Proper maintenance (lube points, oil, transmission, differential, coolant, etc.) and garaging your vehicle regularly should make them last a long time.

Like most possessions, it's a tool. If it reliably and efficiently does it's job no need to replace it. It's why I have a 3.5 year old phone, my exsi hosts at home are from 2012, etc. Replacing good tools is wasteful, both financially and of the environment.
 

sleepeeg3

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Messages
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TSMC, of course, is the Taiwanese foundry that currently makes most of AMD’s CPUs and GPUs, not to mention Apple’s smartphone chips and the new Apple M1 processor...according to CNBC, TSMC plans to prioritize new production capacity in favor of car makers

The move comes as pressure reportedly mounts at government level for TSMC to prioritize chips intended for cars...the global auto industry is currently suffering from significant production delays due to the shortage of chips, leading Germany’s Economy Minister Peter Altmaier writing to his Taiwanese counterpart requesting that TSMC, a key supplier of semiconductors for cars, focus on production for cars above all...similar requests have reportedly been sent from the US, the European Union and Japan...

https://www.pcgamer.com/tsmc-to-prioritise-production-of-chips-for-cars-not-your-next-graphics-card/
The reason for this? Taiwan wants a COVID-19 vaccine.
Source: Taiwanese friend

Germany (Pfizer) has the vaccine.
Taiwan has TSMC.
Taiwan only recognized by 20+ countries as a country indepedent from China.
No one wants to give Taiwan the vaccine.
Taiwan just had their first COVID-19 outbreak.

Politics.

P.S. Who, why is anyone buying a car now?? Are they living out of it?
 

Marees

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Current predictions suggest automakers could lose some $61B in sales worldwide.

The top 10 auto manufacturers on Earth collectively earn about $1.63T in revenue per year.

Relationships between TSMC and the various automotive companies have hit a low point, with each blaming the other for the current shortage, according to Bloomberg.


If you ask the automotive manufacturers, the problem is that TSMC and its ilk are preferentially allocating capacity to gadget manufacturers.

If you ask the foundries, the automotive companies are so in love with lean manufacturing, they refuse to keep reasonable hardware stockpiles on hand.


https://www.extremetech.com/extreme...rtage-could-cost-automakers-61b-in-lost-sales
 

Armenius

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Current predictions suggest automakers could lose some $61B in sales worldwide.

The top 10 auto manufacturers on Earth collectively earn about $1.63T in revenue per year.

Relationships between TSMC and the various automotive companies have hit a low point, with each blaming the other for the current shortage, according to Bloomberg.


If you ask the automotive manufacturers, the problem is that TSMC and its ilk are preferentially allocating capacity to gadget manufacturers.

If you ask the foundries, the automotive companies are so in love with lean manufacturing, they refuse to keep reasonable hardware stockpiles on hand.


https://www.extremetech.com/extreme...rtage-could-cost-automakers-61b-in-lost-sales
More like TSMC is greedy and is overselling capacity, but the jab at the auto industry is true about them being obsessed with lean processes.
 

jfreund

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TSMC has to:

A) Meet existing contractual commitments.
B) Sell uncommitted capacity in a manner that maximizes profits.

Sounds to me like the car manufacturers expect preferential treatment without a prior contract.
 
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