"Trillion Core" Chinese CPU vs. AMD & Intel: ZhaoXin X86 CPU Review ZX-C+ 4701

erek

erek

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Expensive! Opinion?

"We bought a $1000 computer in China by using a contact. It's not a good set of parts for the price, but that's because it's targeted for business and government office use. The THTF (TsingHua Tong Fang) ChaoXiang TZ561-V3 uses a ZhaoXin KaiXian CPU, the ZX-C+ 4701, which is a quad-core X86 CPU that is capable of running Windows without being Intel or AMD. That's done through a tangled web of companies involving Via, Cyrix, TSMC, and a couple others, and it's one of the only non-Intel, non-AMD x86 CPUs that is currently being made. We're benchmarking the ZhaoXin CPU in this content piece. Although it might not look like much today, this is China's attempt to start supplying its own silicon, and many years down the road, we're likely to see a lot more of this type of solution on the Chinese market. ZhaoXin hopes to achieve parity with AMD's Zen 2 by 2021 with its ZX-7000 CPU. We have our doubts about that, but it's a lofty goal. AMD Ryzen 3000 alternatives from someone who isn't Intel would certainly be a game changer, assuming they arrive in a timeline where it's still relevant."

 
Benchmarks don't look great, but it will be interesting to see another player if they pull it off.
 
So in a few years we'll have Chinese parts that are almost direct copies of Intel/AMD? Probably tell the people to use Genuine Chintel parts or their AMD ones (Asian Manufacturing Devices) :censored:
 
Hmmmm. This probably has more silicon dedicated to espionage than it does for processing data.

I don't think they are going to be able to come close to current Zen2 or 9th gen Core performance by next year. If they can even somehow attain that kind of overall system performance by 2023-25, AMD and Intel will still be so far ahead with each of their future offerings, gen after gen after gen, that catching up will never happen.


Now for a bit of humor:

IPtheft Inside ™

Ingenuity
Negated
Through
Extreme
Larceny

Administrative
Mandated
Degeneracy

The motto is: "Why innovate when we can immolate"
 
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The average person doesn't need a current gen CPU/GPU setup to do most basic tasks. Especially if you limit the number of ad and tracking scripts for web tasks. There is a large market for basic computer systems in China, India and Africa. Something like this if they can perfect it and get the costs down, could well fill that market better then a similar Intel or AMD rig designed for the American or European markets and income levels. While cheap phones will fill some of that market, there are still a lot of things that a desktop does better.
 
sfsuphysics said:
So it's built extra heavy with backdoors and other spying capabilities?
Click to expand...
Japan and S.Korea transitioned from primarily medieval fishing villages with a feudal government to completely modernized by scalping European engineers, sending their government to European and American universities to be educated, espionage, and reverse engineering, so obviously China is and has been doing the same. And a lot of companies are participating actively in that loss of IP because they figure its better to sell out their native countries for the opportunity to get to that huge emerging market.

I'm probably showing my age, but I remember when "made in Japan" was something you said as a joke when something cheap broke or fell apart, and Korean cars were the most embarrassing POS you could drive, and yet today "made in Japan" is a sign of quality and I'd have no issues owning a Hyundai if I were in the market.
 
erek said:
Expensive! Opinion?

"We bought a $1000 computer in China by using a contact. It's not a good set of parts for the price, but that's because it's targeted for business and government office use. The THTF (TsingHua Tong Fang) ChaoXiang TZ561-V3 uses a ZhaoXin KaiXian CPU, the ZX-C+ 4701, which is a quad-core X86 CPU that is capable of running Windows without being Intel or AMD. That's done through a tangled web of companies involving Via, Cyrix, TSMC, and a couple others, and it's one of the only non-Intel, non-AMD x86 CPUs that is currently being made. We're benchmarking the ZhaoXin CPU in this content piece. Although it might not look like much today, this is China's attempt to start supplying its own silicon, and many years down the road, we're likely to see a lot more of this type of solution on the Chinese market. ZhaoXin hopes to achieve parity with AMD's Zen 2 by 2021 with its ZX-7000 CPU. We have our doubts about that, but it's a lofty goal. AMD Ryzen 3000 alternatives from someone who isn't Intel would certainly be a game changer, assuming they arrive in a timeline where it's still relevant."

Click to expand...


They won't arrive ever outside of China apart from individual systems here or there.

No Intel license dooms any use in the west.
 
They clearly got taken by some Chinese suppliers. lol

These are like 3 generations old.... its a 3-4 year old design. This is what happens when regular non mandarin speaking folks try to buy stuff direct. Zhaoxin is selling much newer 8 core chips, that apparently perform very much like Zen gen 1 chips.
 
kamxam said:
So in a few years we'll have Chinese parts that are almost direct copies of Intel/AMD? Probably tell the people to use Genuine Chintel parts or their AMD ones (Asian Manufacturing Devices) :censored:
Click to expand...

kekeke
 
DejaWiz said:
Hmmmm. This probably has more silicon dedicated to espionage than it does for processing data.

I don't think they are going to be able to come close to current Zen2 or 9th gen Core performance by next year. If they can even somehow attain that kind of overall system performance by 2023-25, AMD and Intel will still be so far ahead with each of their future offerings, gen after gen after gen, that catching up will never happen.


Now for a bit of humor:

IPtheft Inside ™

Ingenuity
Negated
Through
Extreme
Larceny

Administrative
Mandated
Degeneracy

The motto is: "Why innovate when we can immolate"
Click to expand...
Immolate or emulate?


im·mo·late
/ˈiməˌlāt/

verb
kill or offer as a sacrifice, especially by burning.



em·u·late
/ˈemyəˌlāt/

verb
match or surpass (a person or achievement), typically by imitation.

COMPUTING
reproduce the function or action of (a different computer, software system, etc.)
 
DeeFrag said:
Immolate or emulate?


im·mo·late
/ˈiməˌlāt/

verb
kill or offer as a sacrifice, especially by burning.



em·u·late
/ˈemyəˌlāt/

verb
match or surpass (a person or achievement), typically by imitation.

COMPUTING
reproduce the function or action of (a different computer, software system, etc.)
Click to expand...
to-may-to, to-mah-to
 
ChadD said:
They clearly got taken by some Chinese suppliers. lol

These are like 3 generations old.... its a 3-4 year old design. This is what happens when regular non mandarin speaking folks try to buy stuff direct. Zhaoxin is selling much newer 8 core chips, that apparently perform very much like Zen gen 1 chips.
Click to expand...
You got model numbers. Kinda curious.
 
DeeFrag said:
Immolate or emulate?


im·mo·late
/ˈiməˌlāt/

verb
kill or offer as a sacrifice, especially by burning.



em·u·late
/ˈemyəˌlāt/

verb
match or surpass (a person or achievement), typically by imitation.

COMPUTING
reproduce the function or action of (a different computer, software system, etc.)
Click to expand...

No, it fits. IP theft does indeed kill competition and innovation.
 
Krazy925 said:
You got model numbers. Kinda curious.
Click to expand...

http://en.zhaoxin.com/solution.aspx?id=3
http://en.zhaoxin.com/ZXC.aspx?seriesid=19

The chip TJ got a hold of was a TZ... making it a 28nm chip and about 3 years old now. Pretty sure China isn't keen on these being exported, and I doubt anyone in China really wants to piss off the CCP shipping out new Chinese made processors, I suspect if TJ got his hands on the newest stuff someone in China would be in trouble. But money talks and if someone is willing to pay top dollar for a 3 year old machine, I guess someone found him one.

Their current top of the line... isn't going to replace anyones 3600x or anything... but they are going to be a lot better then what tech jesus got a hold of. Without a doubt they have gotten to a point where China doesn't need anyone else for homegrown consumer devices anymore. They have hit fast enough status... and from all accounts including TJs their stuff sips power, which is important when you have a country of 1.4 billion people, many of whom are just starting to get computers. The difference between a couple hundred million machines using 30-40 watts and the same number using 80 would be pretty dramatic.

KaiXian KX-U6880A
16nm process
8 cores /8 threads processor ,Frequency 3.0GHz，8MB high speed cache
Support Dual-channel DDR4 memory， 64GB Max
High performance integrated graphics，Support DP/HDMI/VGA display interface，Support 4K video playback
Support 16x PCIe 3.0，2x USB 3.1，4x USB 2.0，2x SATA 3.2 ports
Compatible with x86 32/64-bit instructions，SSE4.2/AVX extended instructions
Support SM3/SM4 cryptographic algorithm
Support CPU virtualization technology
Support windows and domestic / general Linux OS
 
DejaWiz said:
No, it fits. IP theft does indeed kill competition and innovation.
Click to expand...

These are not stolen. They started with Vias tech.... a bunch of which was actually stolen from Intel, but hey that was back when Vias tech was Cyrix and it was American.
That was 4 or 5 years ago now though... all the newest designs are home grown.

These chips are basically the answer to the question, "what if Cyrix didn't go under, but to survive they outsourced their design" lol
 
ChadD said:
These are not stolen. They started with Vias tech.... a bunch of which was actually stolen from Intel, but hey that was back when Vias tech was Cyrix and it was American.
That was 4 or 5 years ago now though... all the newest designs are home grown.

These chips are basically the answer to the question, "what if Cyrix didn't go under, but to survive they outsourced their design" lol
Click to expand...

Did you miss the part where I blatantly put the word "humor" in my post?
 
ChadD said:
http://en.zhaoxin.com/solution.aspx?id=3
http://en.zhaoxin.com/ZXC.aspx?seriesid=19

The chip TJ got a hold of was a TZ... making it a 28nm chip and about 3 years old now. Pretty sure China isn't keen on these being exported, and I doubt anyone in China really wants to piss off the CCP shipping out new Chinese made processors, I suspect if TJ got his hands on the newest stuff someone in China would be in trouble. But money talks and if someone is willing to pay top dollar for a 3 year old machine, I guess someone found him one.

Their current top of the line... isn't going to replace anyones 3600x or anything... but they are going to be a lot better then what tech jesus got a hold of. Without a doubt they have gotten to a point where China doesn't need anyone else for homegrown consumer devices anymore. They have hit fast enough status... and from all accounts including TJs their stuff sips power, which is important when you have a country of 1.4 billion people, many of whom are just starting to get computers. The difference between a couple hundred million machines using 30-40 watts and the same number using 80 would be pretty dramatic.

KaiXian KX-U6880A
16nm process
8 cores /8 threads processor ,Frequency 3.0GHz，8MB high speed cache
Support Dual-channel DDR4 memory， 64GB Max
High performance integrated graphics，Support DP/HDMI/VGA display interface，Support 4K video playback
Support 16x PCIe 3.0，2x USB 3.1，4x USB 2.0，2x SATA 3.2 ports
Compatible with x86 32/64-bit instructions，SSE4.2/AVX extended instructions
Support SM3/SM4 cryptographic algorithm
Support CPU virtualization technology
Support windows and domestic / general Linux OS
Click to expand...
Interesting. Thanks for sharing! Going to go read more. Been a few years since I’ve heard anything about Russian or Chinese chips.
 
DejaWiz said:
Did you miss the part where I blatantly put the word "humor" in my post?
Click to expand...

Probably didn't need to quote you. Just more a general statement. People always seem to assume being China anything they make has to have been stolen. They do have some actual very smart people, we underestimate them in general and its going to bite us all in the ass soon enough.
 
ChadD said:
Probably didn't need to quote you. Just more a general statement. People always seem to assume being China anything they make has to have been stolen. They do have some actual very smart people, we underestimate them in general and its going to bite us all in the ass soon enough.
Click to expand...
I don’t think anyone in here has said the Chinese are incapable morons as you are suggesting. However, IP theft is incredibly rampant in China with no laws against it whatsoever. It’s a huge problem. You can’t sue China for stealing your stuff because they don’t care.
 
Since TSMC makes the AMD chips (I think), they can always "share" the blueprints with ZX and achieve parity. This is one of the reasons people think Intel keeps their manufacturing in house.
 
Staples said:
Since TSMC makes the AMD chips (I think), they can always "share" the blueprints with ZX and achieve parity. This is one of the reasons people think Intel keeps their manufacturing in house.
Click to expand...

They'd be setting themselves up for a massive lawsuit and fines. The Taiwanese government isn't exactly keen on IP theft.
 
Staples said:
Since TSMC makes the AMD chips (I think), they can always "share" the blueprints with ZX and achieve parity. This is one of the reasons people think Intel keeps their manufacturing in house.
Click to expand...

This has been true for years and yet it hasn't happened.

I love how people think there is some sort of magic in a x86 processor. Everything that makes a x86 chip a x86 chip is well known.

This Chinese company is the owner of the Via x86 patents. (which where the Cyrix patents). Intel is in fact using tech that this company owns, as Intel uses AMD tech and AMD uses Intel tech. The reason tech jesus found that these are sipping power is because Via actually has very good power saving tech, so good that its also in the Intel chips cause they licenced it. Well ok Intel was sued first for stealing it from Cyrix... but...

Cyrix/Via settled all their law suits back and forth long ago with the exact same outcome as the AMD vs Intel back and forths... with both companies agreeing to cross licence each others tech for basically ever.

Anyway point is you don't have to steal what you already have the legal right to use. If Intel comes up with a new x86 extension tomorrow... they have to share it with AMD and well I guess these guys as they are licencing from Via.
 
To make matters more confusing, they just have 32bit x86 (ia32) from Intel. And we got what we call x86_64 from AMD (and Intel got onboard). Intel's failed 64bit attempt was Itanium (ia64, RIP).
 
Staples said:
Since TSMC makes the AMD chips (I think), they can always "share" the blueprints with ZX and achieve parity. This is one of the reasons people think Intel keeps their manufacturing in house.
Click to expand...

that would be suicide for TSMC to do that considering they produce Apple, Nvidia, AMD cpu and gpu's, some of Intel's chips and countless other products for other companies.. they would never share that information and there isn't a single person that has access to the complete silicon production just to make sure that can never happen.
 
sirmonkey1985 said:
that would be suicide for TSMC to do that considering they produce Apple, Nvidia, AMD cpu and gpu's, some of Intel's chips and countless other products for other companies.. they would never share that information and there isn't a single person that has access to the complete silicon production just to make sure that can never happen.
Click to expand...
Just look at Huawei. They’re making phones without Android now ... and it’s awful. This is what happens when you try to screw people.
 
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