treyarch dev says negative 'gamers' are ruining industry

People don't complain about innovation when it is actually meant to improve the user experience in a positive way. Things like new gameplay types, the gravity gun and portal were all praised.

People complain when the new "features" don't benefit users at all. Requiring people to be online for a single player game, removing lan play, game crashing bugs, limited installs and fixed FOV these do nothing to make the user experience better. In fact they tend to make it quite a bit worse.

I will use IWnet as example of what could have been versus what it was and why people complain:
IWnet could have been something good. I like dedicated servers as much as the next guy, but I am willing to admit that it is possible that there is a better solution out there. The problem was infinity ward did nothing to address any of the issues or concerns that were brought up when it was released. Things like group play, lan play, lag, control over weapons these were all brought up before the game was released but instead of saying "We believe IWnet address those issues because of X,Y and Z" They said "trust us it's just better" then all the issues people mentioned and theorized about were perfectly true. If they could have come up with something where a new player could easily choose a playlist IWnet style to find a game, yet retain all the good parts of dedicated servers and let experienced players choose who they wanted to play with then that would have been great (perhaps something that selects a server for you based on players, preferences gametypes and map rotation with the option of selecting your own server.) . That would have moved the industry forward and provided a better experience. But that is not what happened, instead we system with lots of lag, and very little control over what actually went on, a significant degradation of experiance over dedicated servers. There lack of addressing any of the concerns at the announcement and in fact patching out dedicated servers after release showed that instead of caring about player experiance they cared about control and preventing people from running mods.
 
styckx said:
^ This.
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Careful.

If you tell people to shut up and quit complaining about things not getting fixed or added, you are inviting publishers to say "Wow, people actually support us and fight the complainers for us. And they buy our games to boot! We shouldn't waste money fixing or adding anything next time we make a game since we've got a group of people that fully support us maintaining the status quo, even insulting people who dare ask for more for their money. Ha ha! Call them childish, call them whiners, I like it. Pop those corks and call the stockholders!"
 
Treyarch is notorious for piggy backing off of Infinity Ward's success in the COD arena.

With the recent fail that is known as "blops" I'm not surprised that Treyarch is getting upset that people are calling them out finally for a crap product.
 
dr.stevil said:
While I think that he might be letting the comments of some cynical geeks get under his skin a little more than he should, he does make some good points. I rarely bother reading comments on gaming releated articles anymore, not to mention avoiding the gaming section here and on other forums do to the sheer amount of negativity that comes out of the community.

Alot of the people that like to complain act like they're entitled to something and if they don't get that, they cry about it and generally act like spoiled brats. Sometimes it's warrented but, IMO, it's usually blown out of proportion. It's almost like certain things are expected and if the developers try something new or different than the status quo, they're labled as sellouts or greedy and that they don't care about the community. A lot act like games should be tailor made to THEM instead of enjoying something that was envisioned by another person, for good or for bad.

What do you think about it? Does he have a point?

http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/02/02/t...he-biggest-problem-facing-the-games-industry/
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We are paying for the sustained existence of these companies. Its not like they are volunteering their time or anything. If we pay for something (often times, a lot of money for the pitiful amount of content the game contains) and aren't happy I EXPECT people to voice their opinion loudly.
 
chinesepiratefood said:
We are paying for the sustained existence of these companies. Its not like they are volunteering their time or anything. If we pay for something (often times, a lot of money for the pitiful amount of content the game contains) and aren't happy I EXPECT people to voice their opinion loudly.
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But what game is perfect? A lot of the complaining is about how this game is not perfect. Most of the complaints are beating a dead horse. Most people would go on and play the next game or live their life but there are plenty of gamers who just can't move on.
 
Q-BZ said:
^^




Sure he doesn't. You keep telling yourself that. Hit a little close to home there?

The only mistake he made was confining to such a narrow demographic.
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Definitely hit close to home as I'm such a whiny and bitchy 20 something.

If you really think that's the problem today then you two are the ones with issues. And really, 20 somethings? Maybe between 20-40's, or just idiots.

Staples said:
But what game is perfect? A lot of the complaining is about how this game is not perfect. Most of the complaints are beating a dead horse. Most people would go on and play the next game or live their life but there are plenty of gamers who just can't move on.
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No game is perfect but some are clearly better than others. How many times did Blizzard release a Diablo-style game? Twice over a large gap (soon to be 3 after a 10 year gap). How many times has Activision/Treyarch released a Call of Duty game? Well lets just skip the early ones and say 4 in 3 years. $60 a pop for the same game and the real issue is people are stupid enough to pay for it 4 times and complain each time.

I guess it all just comes down to how stupid the consumers really are. Bravo, Activision/Treyarch, you made a killing.

Oh and it should also be mentioned that these "negative" gamers that are "ruining" industry managed to make the industry BILLIONS in revenue again this year. Damn, this industry is getting murdered!
 
Staples said:
But what game is perfect? A lot of the complaining is about how this game is not perfect. Most of the complaints are beating a dead horse. Most people would go on and play the next game or live their life but there are plenty of gamers who just can't move on.
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Nobody said anything about a game having to be perfect.

Developers and publishers like Treyarch and Activision don't care too much for the community, and their disdain toward their customers shows in this interview. They hate mods (at least the ones you can get for free), they hate community patches, they don't release any mod tools, and it took thousands of people brutally criticizing their games just to pry a half-hearted dedicated server from them.

Look at all the developers who few complain about: Creative Assembly, Valve, GSC Game World, iD, Epic Games, Gearbox, Bethesda--people who support community mods and provide help with their own game for years after release. Don't like scaled leveling? Want more realistic Roman units? That's fine; they'll let you modify whatever it is. In a business built on creation of content, the greatest sin of all is to stifle creativity.
 
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, negative or not.

I cannot fathom how anyone could blame others for having their own opinion. Sure, we don't have to agree with others, but it doesn't mean we can blame them for having their own opinion.

Treyarch is certainly not winning any fans with an attitude like that.
 
The problem is that his game fucken sucks and does not bring anything new or innovative to the table. He should look at his shit game before making such comments
 
Even after sifting through all the complaints, it still doesn't effect my decision to purchase a game, same goes for movies.
 
Killa_2327 said:
Definitely hit close to home as I'm such a whiny and bitchy 20 something.
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You said it I didn't.


If you really think that's the problem today then you two are the ones with issues.
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I KNOW that sense of entitlement, regardless of demographics, is absolutely at the heart of what's wrong with society. No question about it.
 
Q-BZ said:
I KNOW that sense of entitlement, regardless of demographics, is absolutely at the heart of what's wrong with society. No question about it.
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It's an obvious trend that is increasing, for sure... but it's just a pattern that has been emerging for centuries. USA Colonization? Women demanding right to vote?

I don't know how you claim it is at the heart of what is wrong with society........
 
chockomonkey said:
It's an obvious trend that is increasing, for sure... but it's just a pattern that has been emerging for centuries. USA Colonization? Women demanding right to vote?

I don't know how you claim it is at the heart of what is wrong with society........
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Because people like him have to blame someone, why not the kids today?
 
Well we live in a world where even the 20 somethings on down all feel like they are entitled to everything in general. As a result they whine and bitch unreasonably and tend to be among the most vocal of any group.

It's just like all the people in the gaming forums who think they are entitled to a game demo and when they don't get it they'll actually pirate the game claiming that they are "trying before they buy.
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What? It was our generation that drove Atari to bankrupcy with our rampant piracy. As the gaming industry has increased in size, it has become far more mediocre - no doubt about that. There are fewer terrible games, but not as many brilliant/innovative ones. That's why we're seeing such strong interest in "indie" game titles.
 
As a community manager he should know better. I don't know what a "negative" gamer is, but there are disappointed customers; doesn't help to complain rather than be awesome at cust serv. There are also vocal minorities and if you just stick to reading forums and social media you might get more of that.

Make a good product (game) and you won't have too much to worry about, and considering how much Black Ops sold I don't understand his rant. Haters gonna hate, always will.

Piracy isn't killing anything, and the video game industry is hardly the worst in piracy either.

http://www.ftrain.com/wwic.html <-- this helps explain, good read
 
You guys do realize there's a difference between constructive criticism and complaining, right? I see a lot more of the latter.

"Wahhh no dedicated servers!" "Waahh no LAN!" "Wahhh Not every developer has OMG NEW INCREDIBLE IDEAS!!"

Think back to the olden days. Just about every game was a copy of Zelda or something. People complain about $60 games with 10 hours of gameplay, but other than RPGs, what games were longer? And those cartridges are much more.

Black Ops was a much better game than MW2.
 
Zero82z said:
The crash happened because the market was flooded with shitty games, not because of piracy.
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Thank you! The whole piracy excuse is pure B.S. Just as is happening now,the console makers got greedy and started pumping out overpriced crap. One good thing did come out of it,I turned to PC gaming to fill the void and never touched a console since.
 
thesixth said:
Treyarch is notorious for piggy backing off of Infinity Ward's success in the COD arena.
With the recent fail that is known as "blops" I'm not surprised that Treyarch is getting upset that people are calling them out finally for a crap product.
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Call of Duty MW2 was developed by Infinity Ward. It's the game that did away with dedicated servers and user maps and mods. They also cut the Co-Op down from 4 players to 2 players and eliminated Nazi Zombies which is also 4 player Co-Op.
 
chockomonkey said:
It's an obvious trend that is increasing, for sure... but it's just a pattern that has been emerging for centuries. USA Colonization? Women demanding right to vote?

I don't know how you claim it is at the heart of what is wrong with society........
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Stepping outside the world of games, yes, entitlement is the problem. If you can earn it, you can be entitled, but kids these days expect to be entitled to something they have not earned. As far as game though, you either pay for it or you don't. Do your homework on what you buy before you buy.
 
thefreeaccount said:
What? It was our generation that drove Atari to bankrupcy with our rampant piracy. As the gaming industry has increased in size, it has become far more mediocre - no doubt about that. There are fewer terrible games, but not as many brilliant/innovative ones. That's why we're seeing such strong interest in "indie" game titles.
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Very true, A fair amout of indie games ( Amnesia, Magicka ) have been getting popular.
 
Isn't a little hypocritical for developers like Treyarch (and Bioware) to have these "We Are GREAT ARTISTS! No matter how good you think it is, you're wrong because we make GREAT ARTISTIC GAMES. Pay what we tell you to, shut up, and revel in the glory of what we produce for you dirty peasant" attitudes while whining about gamers being "entitled".

Every major development studio today seems to enjoy the aroma of their own arse a little too much. Legit criticism is pushed aside and they even admit "Hey, why don't we make games for the lowest common denominator that doesn't question what we do and will buy a shit in a box if we told them. Hold on kids here comes another $15 3 map pack!". All real weaknesses or criticism is ignored and both developers and publishers believe that they are entitled to every man woman and child buying a copy of their game - anyone who doesn't clearly doesn't "get it" or is a dirty pirate who would only buy the game if the copy protection was so draconian as to not give them any other choice.

Vile.
 
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