Perhaps "PRESSING THE PEDAL HAD NO EFFECT" because the mechanics of the pedal were broken. If a lightswitch in my house stops working and I flip it multiple times do I blame a computer? No. The mechanics of the lightswitch have failed. Same thing with the accelerator pedal assembly.
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Toyota Recall Highlights Potential Car Computer Troubles
- Thread starter Terry Olaes
- Start date
Perhaps "PRESSING THE PEDAL HAD NO EFFECT" because the mechanics of the pedal were broken. If a lightswitch in my house stops working and I flip it multiple times do I blame a computer? No. The mechanics of the lightswitch have failed. Same thing with the accelerator pedal assembly.
I knew it had to do with the ecu rather than the mechanical functions. On drive by wire most of everything is controlled by the computer now. On a car without drive by wire..these problems wouldn't even exist as the person opening the throttle body is a human rather than a computer controlling the throttle body. I bet once this wifi comes out for cars where they check your emissions and crap, a terrorist will create a virus and cause all the cars out there to become infected and go 120mph non-stop. I don't trust a computer controlling my throttle body thats for sure. Too much room for error. Glad mine isn't drive by wire. If the computer did screw up on cars without drive by wire it would just make the car run too rich(flood the engine with gasoline). A capacitor might explode someday on your car and cause the acceleration to sky rocket to 120mph. Always a risk 
I did, that's why now I need to take my car in to get the ecu flashed (long process involving battery charger to keep battery from going dead) just so that my rear wiper will work again, a system made complex because a manufacturer saved money by eliminating a relay and let the ecu handle the job. Murphys law is going to kick into high gear as these complex vehicles age.
On a side note, for people thinking the cure for sticking throttle is shutting the engine off are going to be in for a lot of hurt. Once the engine shuts down power assist for the braking system is lost and you will need both feet and a lot of pressure just to slow down and the possibility of turning the ignition key all the way into lock position and locking your steering will cause a bit of anxiety when trying to turn.
distortion69
Limp Gawd
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It was a mistake in engineering. I don't see any reason to abandon a very smooth, linear form of throttle response. In fact, GM has executed it very well in most of their models.. Throttle cables have had issues in the past with faulty design/failure and people have had accelerators stuck for a long time before fly-by-wire existed.. You can hardly blame a faulty design for removing a perfectly logical concept. If every time a system failed in a car we reverted back to dinosaur technology, we'd be walking everywhere. If you don't like it, try to find a car that doesn't have it and purchase it.. that is your right as a consumer.. If the technology ends up being too risky, then companies will no longer use it in fear of lawsuit.
There would have been NO recall if the government hadn't stepped in. Toyota has done everything they can to try and hide this problem. Toyota has done nothing right in this recall.
Xaero_toast
Limp Gawd
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If that would even work. On these newer cars, what is to say the ignition switch shuts off the car? With older cars, the ignition switch mechanically removed ignition power-->engine stalls. On some of the current models, ignition switch status is just another sensory input for the computer. If the hacked-by-cylons fly-by-wire is ignoring throttle input, what is to say it pays any greater attention to ignition switch input.
As for the loss of power steering/power braking, I can say only this: If you are not physically capable of steering/braking without power assistance, you are not physically capable of driving, and should not be behind the wheel.
I think locking steering columns have been abandoned. My 05 Chevy Truck is my first "fly-by-wire" (hate that dead pedal feel, btw) vehicle. It is also the first one I've had without a locking steering column. I don't know if that's correlation, or coincidence, but it's a good idea. Locking steering columns never had much anti-theft value anyway.
Digital will never equal analog in terms of linear operation no matter how many bits you throw into the mix. The smooth and linear throttle response you speak of is actually a result of modern electronic fuel injection that has been around longer then drive by wire.The throttle body should react exactly the same as the throttle pedal no matter if it's cable or electronic. If the ecu is making small corrections because of driver error or a shaking foot in drive by wire to make for smoother throttle response then the ecu has the power to make whatever changes to the throttle body is sees fit including no throttle or wide open throttle. It's a technology that should not be used were cost cutting is the norm. Keep it in high end vehicles were the customer can afford to pay for top quality parts. If you put it in low cost vehicles the norm is to keep prices down and manufactures will resort to installing sub standard parts.
I guess you have never had a car stall on you while driving. While it is possible to stop with effort can you imagine in a panic situation things happen a lot quicker and it would be nice for your brakes work as required. As far as locking steering wheels not existing any more that's a lot of bull as they are still being made and for most cars being manufactured today the ignition switch still cuts off all power. I have a new car just purchased and it still retains these features.
well getting the car into neutral is the most important part. but in a situation where my engine was riding the rev limiter, i would turn off the key and bury the brakes. anyone in that situation will have plenty of adrenaline to override the powerless-power booster. and as for the steering wheel, who cares. you wont need it. if youre racing 90mph youre obviously are going straight, and the only thing you need at that moment is to stop or slow way the fuck down. most panicky people just do more harm then good by trying to steer their way out of accidents anyway.
aaronearles
[H]ard|Gawd
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drive by wire has been around for a very long time, why is everyone acting like this is some brand new technology? My previous car (2003) had dbw and a non-locking wheel, my new 08 has dbw and wheel lock.
aaronearles
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not to mention, if you shut the car off, you will still have power brakes for the first application or two.
Smiththers2
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btw, who here is also thinking about getting a 70's ford truck just to have in case of EMP blast? it would be so funny to see everyones cars dead on the road while the only ones riding around are a bunch of old timers in their 40 year old trucks
id like to add to this, get a diesel truck from that era as well, they can be run forever once started and just kept fueled up!
aaronearles
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If we had an emp blast, I would have no reason to live anyway
I find it funny that you people think stuck throttle didn't exist prior to DBW systems. Moving to a computer controlled acceleration pedal from a physical wire and spring has likely saved many peoples lives.
What do you do when the spring rusts and breaks on your old car? The throttle just stays open.
What do you do when the spring rusts and breaks on your old car? The throttle just stays open.
N2OInferno
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Couldn't tell you. Though I think that if it was truly a software problem that was causing the the issue, the fix for the problem wouldn't be installing a shim in the accelerator. That's what they're doing to my friend's Corolla at least. And apparently anything still in the assembly line is getting a new a pedal assembly.
Toyota's website actually says:
Toyota.com said:
Apparently the gas pedal for the US and Japan are different. An American company did build them, but toyota designed it. So the question you have to ask is was the part built to spec or not, it could have been a design problem. You cant automatically blame the supplier.
When cars are under heavy acceleration there is a lot of vacuum going on, on some cars the brake pedal is almost useless due to the vacuum. Try it out on your car. As for the cop and family that crashed, he was in a hybird. Cops know how to drive, but hybrids have this little dinky ass basically a two way switch for shifting out of park and have a push button start that has to be held down for 3.2!! seconds to shut off the car.
Now i sure as hell wouldn't have died over an accelerating car but i could see someone getting confused over the weird layout of the car and not knowing what to do in a panic.
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/oct/18/business/fi-toyota-recall18?pg=4
It will be mighty hard to push 225 pounds while concentrating not to crash a 120 mph car.
While doing 70+MPH on the highway, without power brakes, you might as well put your feet out the door ala Flintstones style to stop.
PERHAPS THE SIMPLEST EXPLINATION IS THE ANSWER!!! It's just that Toyota fanboys can't fathom to see the blame placed on their company and have to try and pass the blame any way they can. Blame American companies, blame floor mats. Please tell me you don't think Toyota engineers are so bad that they designed 3 things so poorly that they all had to have recall issues at the same time?
The recent Toyota incident guy is a total scammer, and the media fell for it hook line and sinker.
http://www.forbes.com/2010/03/12/toyota-autos-hoax-media-opinions-contributors-michael-fumento.html
http://www.forbes.com/2010/03/12/toyota-autos-hoax-media-opinions-contributors-michael-fumento.html
lol todays cars are much more dangerous with computer controlled actuators. Obd1 should have been it. Just the basics in electronic monitoring for emissions and ignition is enough. Computer controlled gas, brake, and ignition doesn't sound that safe at all. Turn key ignitions are the safest. There had been a few times where my brake lines exploded and i used my e-brake to brake back home more than 8 miles in high traffic streets. Thats on manual also. If there was a bug or if the OS crashed on the ecu you could die in the latest cars. Over 50 people died already from what i heard on the radio so far. Even after a pedal replacement people have died. More than likely its the ecu is malfunctioning. One big swipe of a magnet next to an ecu connected to a actuator that controls the throttle body can probably cause full throttle if a resister popped thus saying full voltage=full throttle. Computers before in cars just monitored the car while now they are trying to have them do the work for you. Windows 95 crashed all the time before. Just think if that happened in your cars ecu lol. To me drive by wire just real dangerous. Putting your life in the hands of a bunch of programmers who could have no experience whatsoever. I think it would be alright if they removed drive by wire and kept the turn key ignition. If they do use drive by wire they should have a mechanical override shutoff button just in case. Every computer controlled car needs a kill switch to the gas pump. Computer controlled actuators can malfunction with magnetic interference. Actuators are controlled by voltages just like map and tps sensors. Except actuators can cause your car to go full throttle if the voltage were compromised by interference or a system crash.
I hate the way digital throttles respond compared to a mechanical system. The throttle responses from my 75 Camaro or even my 01 (!) Dakota are butter compared to my 07 Charge. But there are aftermarket systems...
As for this who Toyota issue. I have yet to understand why any American would buy a Japanese car in this economy. Now there is an even larger reason not to.
firas
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little bit off topic , made another accident just 3 hours ago, other drivers fault (clearly). he barely torched my car but unfortunately my car’s front plate number got stuck with his car so he pulled it along with the whole front bumper and the head lights and some other stuff. I couldn’t close the hood completely and forgot to bind it with a rope (uhhhhh). 1 hour ago when I was going to the estimations center and while I was driving around 70 mph the hood got open and broke the front glass, lucky it didn’t scatter and no one was near me because I lost control for a second. I bought this Sonata 2 years back and I think this is my sixth accident with it, all small ones though. btw, I love it and love the handling, way better than Camry IMHO, the 2011 Sonata is AMAZING, I would’ve picked a Mazda 6 but their maintenance and spare parts is a joke. but I guess I’m going to repair this one and stick to it until I stop making too many accidents and spoil a brand new car.
, made another accident just 3 hours ago, other drivers fault (clearly). he barely torched my car but unfortunately my car’s front plate number got stuck with his car so he pulled it along with the whole front bumper and the head lights and some other stuff. I couldn’t close the hood completely and forgot to bind it with a rope (uhhhhh). 1 hour ago when I was going to the estimations center and while I was driving around 70 mph the hood got open and broke the front glass, lucky it didn’t scatter and no one was near me because I lost control for a second. I bought this Sonata 2 years back and I think this is my sixth accident with it, all small ones though. btw, I love it and love the handling, way better than Camry IMHO, the 2011 Sonata is AMAZING, I would’ve picked a Mazda 6 but their maintenance and spare parts is a joke. but I guess I’m going to repair this one and stick to it until I stop making too many accidents and spoil a brand new car.GreenMonkey
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I was once on a runaway snowmobile (ended up being a stuck throttle cable). It was from the 80s so it was about 10 years old - no kill switch, and brakes on a snowmobile don't really do much.
I ended up crashing it into a tree in less than a minute at about ~30mph (jumped off as it hit...hurt my knee). My buddy later asked why I didn't turn off the ignition. I just didn't think about it.
But if someone had told me to turn off the ignition or shift the gear? Duh.
This guy makes a good point. The story stinks like rotten fish. I can't believe he didn't listen to the 911 dispatcher, and from the previous links it seems like he should have been able to stop the car, at least somewhat. And reaching and pulling up the gas pedal while driving? That sounds harrowing for me, a 6ft guy in a Grand Prix. In a little Prius? Ugh
alg7_munif
Supreme [H]ardness
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The most difficult task for an engineer is making something idiot proof since you never know what an idiot would do that a normal sane person won't do.
TerraPhantm
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BMWs valvetronic is pretty close, they left the throttle body there as a failsafe, but under normal operation, the throttle body is fully open.
did you read the article or just read the headline? that is the same bullshit arguments that you see here in these threads. his closing argument is "web sites across the interent show that everyone thinks this is a hoax, while only the media thinks its it".
go ahead and "believe the internet"... the CHP has disintegrated brake pads in the mean time to look at