Toyota and Microsoft?

R

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[H] News Editor
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What kind prick compares Toyota, a company that caused the deaths of entire families and lied about it, to Microsoft who at best causes people a minor inconvenience on the grand scale of things? Well this guy that's who. I love the part about Mac people consoling Microsoft users because my Windows device caught on fire in my pocket , oh wait, that didn't happen.

Imagine, the letter from Microsoft, for that matter, addressing Windows operators (as the PC Guy attempts to shrug off the consolation of his Mac counterpart)
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What a troll, although I loved the response titled "How about ZDNet's Toyota Letter" that stated:

Dear readers,
We're sorry for our blogging staff's sloppy "journalism". We realize you come to this site looking for Tech News. Unfortunately, we can seem to hire but a few writers with the talent necessary to write anything more than flame and click bait pieces. In our most earnest effort to address the issue, we are going to hire more click bait writers-- because, let's face it, we're ZDNet.

Thanks,
Z
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LOL!
 
Seems like it was written by a teenager.
 
Wouldn't it be best if we just ignored these sorts of people? Flame baiters just want the everlasting attention the internet offers that they never received in their childhood or from others in society. Why encourage them?
 
what a dumb comparison

Microsoft isn't all that bad either, really

Toyota has caused deaths due to faulty brakes :(
 
Sahrin said:
How do you figure they 'lied about it?'
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Well, the part where they lied about it was a good indicator. ;)

Are you saying Toyota has accepted repsonsibility for the fact that their cars killed a police officer and his entire family? Or ANY of the other complaints?
 
Steve said:
Well, the part where they lied about it was a good indicator. ;)
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Yes - so I guess that's my question. I'm pretty familiar with the details of the situation and I'm having a very hard time coming up with any factual basis for such a huge and damning implication like that.

Steve said:
Are you saying Toyota has accepted repsonsibility for the fact that their cars killed a police officer and his entire family? Or ANY of the other complaints?
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That's exactly what I'm saying. In addition, the portrayal of the San Diego incident as Toyota's cars "killing a police officer and his family" is incredibly naive.
 
Tom_McCarroll said:
I think the floor mat issue was them lying that there was a problem.
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Can you be more specifc? What problem? Are you implying that there *is* no floor mat problem (despite the evidence of the San Diego crash)?

Are you aware that the Floor Mat issue is the only one that has resulted in fatalities? The much publicized Accelerator Pedal issue has not been proven to have caused any fatalities.

I say "issue" not to couch my language; but as someone who is studying to be an engineer and has worked extensively in the business world and understands that things like these aren't as simple as "Toyota installed a block of C4 under the drivers' seat."

You're perpetuating the same kind of ignorance that [H] decries in its newsposts everyday.
 
Steve said:
Ahhh, Toyota owner. I see.
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Well, truth be told as a US Citizen I'm more of a GM/Chrysler owner than anything else. I understand and appreciate the natural bias of you guys trying to keep your taxes low, but do you really think the extra $100B you'll save us is worth your dignity? :D

Yes, I drive a 2010 Prius - I have experienced the ABS issue (and I can tell you that it is not significant enough to cause an accident unless the accident was already inevitable).
 
Something wierd here, I realize I was not there and don't know all the facts but:

Strange, why didn't the guy put it in neutral and coast to the side of the road? Instead they were riding it out at 120 mph. My thoughts and prayers are with the family.

Something wrong here, just a gut feeling. Smells like a Government Motors scam to me, just a gut feeling.

The media has not mentioned the 1.2 million Government Motors vehicles that were just recalled.

I like Toyota, just bought one.
 
Sahrin said:
Well, truth be told as a US Citizen I'm more of a GM/Chrysler owner than anything else. I understand and appreciate the natural bias of you guys trying to keep your taxes low, but do you really think the extra $100B you'll save us is worth your dignity? :D

Yes, I drive a 2010 Prius - I have experienced the ABS issue (and I can tell you that it is not significant enough to cause an accident unless the accident was already inevitable).
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well i hope you don't end up in a closed casket cause of those brakes
 
What did Jon Stewert say about Toyota saying it was becuase they didn't forsee how Americans would use the cars?

"Couldn't forsee how we are using them? We're driving them, not fucking them"
 
Sahrin said:
? I don't understand what you're saying. I'm biased? Can you demonstrate that what you say is true with facts?
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C'mon, you are serious about this whole "one man defender of Toyota" thing? Seriously?

Anyhow, here's FACTS...Google the quotes, it's not like this isn't everywhere you look :rolleyes::

People with Toyotas have complained of their vehicles speeding out of control despite efforts to slow down, sometimes resulting in deadly crashes. The government has received complaints of 34 deaths linked to sudden acceleration of Toyota vehicles since 2000.
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House investigators who reviewed Toyota's customer call database found that 70 percent of the complaints of sudden acceleration were for vehicles that are not subject to the recalls over floor mats or sticky pedals
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I'm not saying you bias...everyone else is. :D
 
Steve said:
C'mon, you are serious about this whole "one man defender of Toyota" thing? Seriously?

Anyhow, here's FACTS...Google the quotes, it's not like this isn't everywhere you look :rolleyes::
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*shrug* You've got to understand I'm not 'brushing aside' the safety issues. I've been a part of a company that was torn apart by the media and competitors because it was PC to do it. It's not something I would wish on anyone. I'm trying to keep the public deception to a minimum. You're exacerbating the problem by posting incomplete and inaccurate information and presenting it in a fundamentally misleading manner.

By all means, *don't* buy a Toyota; don't buy a Toyota *because* of the recalls, even. But don't drink the Kool-Aid (just like the "Mac is better because Steve Told Me So" variety). I'm not here to defend Toyota, I'm here to present the facts as I understand them. You're implication that Toyota "lied" about anything indicates to me you don't understand the facts. I admit I can be mistaken about this - so I'm trying to ask you for evidence that supports your claim.

Steve said:
I'm not saying you bias...everyone else is. :D
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Are you implying that people are naive for buying Toyotas?
 
Sahrin said:
I'm not here to defend Toyota, I'm here to present the facts as I understand them. You're implication that Toyota "lied" about anything indicates to me you don't understand the facts.
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Okay, okay...I get it. Everyone is lying about Toyota, we're all "Kool-Aid" drinkers and unable to understand basic facts.

Arguing in favor of a company with 10 years of the SAME COMPLAINT...a complaint that went unfixed....a company that flat out calls its customers stupid by blaming floormats and BRAGGING about limiting its initial recall, which led to other people dying from a KNOWN defect....dude, c'mon.

The Wall Street Journal reported that document from an internal presentation in July 2009 by Yoshimi Inaba, chief of the auto maker’s North America operations, claimed a "win" from Toyota's success in lobbying federal safety officials last year. Inaba said that by limiting the recall to only 55,000 Camry and Lexus ES350 vehicles, the company saved $100 million, the Journal reported.
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Say what you want to say, be the one-man-champion of the Toyota cause, but I am done with this debate...I have more Kool-Aid to drink with my stupid friends :rolleyes:
 
I'm considering buying a Toyota, but I've always been more of a Honda guy. A sense of perspective is needed. Of the 40,000 or so people that die on the nations roadways every year, a negligible fraction of them are due to auto safety issues. Cars have become much safer in recent years, but just like computers, as long as you have humans in the equation, mistakes will happen.

The only way the computer analogy would hold up is if and when computers become critical to our lives. At the same time, computer reliability and service life would have to increase to the point where it was a big deal when a computer crashed, and it would actually cause you material harm.
 
The whole Toyota recall thing is a Government Motors snow job trying to smear Toyota. Every brand of car has problems from time to time. Just add up all the recalls GM and Ford have had in the last 20 years.
People are sheep, Goebbels was right:
“Think of the press as a great keyboard on which the government can play.”
 
Steve said:
Okay, okay...I get it. Everyone is lying about Toyota, we're all "Kool-Aid" drinkers and unable to understand basic facts.
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Well, yeah, pretty much.

Anyone here old enough to remember the Audi problems with "unintended acceleration" in the 1980s? The scandal destroyed Audi's reputation for many years, and is the reason we now have to hold down the brake pedal to shift out of park: because of tearful testimony by dozens of people that they were standing on the brake for all they were worth when they smashed little Johhny through the back of the garage.

Then, as now, there were Congressional investigations. Then, as now, a car company was castigated as being a group of heartless killers desperate to cover up the fatal flaws in their product that had wrought death and destruction upon innocent, trusting consumers.

Despite years of investigations, no flaw with the Audi accelerator or brake systems was ever found. The best explanation anyone could come up with was that people who swore they were braking as hard as they could were actually standing on the accelerator. And guess what? After Audi installed the "hold the brake down to shift out of park" feature, the problem vanished. But if that was it, why wasn't the problem reported with other cars? Well, it was, but anyone who ever did something stupid in their Audi blamed it on "unintended acceleration" and things kinda snowballed.

But getting back to Toyota: as the latest issue of Car and Driver shows, brakes will ALWAYS stop your car, floored accelerator or no. Even a supercharged Roush Mustang going over 100mph with the gas pedal all the way down will be brought to a complete stop by its brakes.

The tearful woman who testified before Congress said her car accelerated out of control, the brakes didn't work, shifting in to neutral and park didn't work, and she was unable to turn the car off. Oddly enough, after the reported simultaneous failure of every major driver control system in the car except steering, no problem was found. Now, which explanation is more likely: that the accelerator, brakes, ignition, and transmission simultaneously failed and then magically repaired themselves with no trace of a problem, or...?

Still, modern cars are fiercely complex beasts. I won't say it's impossible for this to happen...but seeing as how nobody's been able to come up with anything even resembling an explanation or mechanism to explain it, I'll remain...skeptical.
 
Toyota is not lying.


They're taking the approach Ford took after it colluded with Firestone to kill 250 and injure 3000+. Deny deny deny.
 
Really try to stop a car at 100 MPH with the accelerator pedal all the way down chances are you get one try before the brakes take a shit on you.

Also ford does not make tires it makes cars.
 
Tom_McCarroll said:
Really try to stop a car at 100 MPH with the accelerator pedal all the way down chances are you get one try before the brakes take a shit on you.

Also ford does not make tires it makes cars.
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The brakes will still stop you. It may have a significantly longer braking distance, and might be able to do a brake stand when you come to a stop. But it will get to 0mph.
 
toyota's problems ARE way overblown, and i wouldnt doubt at all its because of some collusion by the american media and automakers.

however, toyota brakes are NOT the problem. most cars could not stop themselves with full acceleration... only a few mainly European models can do that. toyota just needs to put a failsafe in their electronics to cut off throttle when you hit the brakes. simple as that

these people that died are mostly stupid anyway. one was even a COP! and he couldnt pull the key out of the ignition and stand on the brakes? i just dont get it.... they have time to call 911 but they dont have time to do anything to the car? gimme a break
 
L0s7 4 Lyf3 said:
The brakes will still stop you. It may have a significantly longer braking distance, and might be able to do a brake stand when you come to a stop. But it will get to 0mph.
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no they wont. if your accellerator is on, the brakes will overheat within 20 seconds and will become completely spongy and unresponsive. thats why i tell everyone to PULL THE KEY OUT. shut that engine off. dont listen to people who say "itll be hard to steer and brake" because when your in a panic mode you will have PLENTY of muscle to override the power booster and steering pump.
 
This has happened to me before, in my young and stupid years. I learned the hard way to make sure that my linkages moved freely and smoothly before jumping in and trying out my new carb.

These days they just say to slam your brakes. Too me, depending on the speed you are going, this is a bad idea.

What I was taught to do a long time ago.
Disclaimer:
Doing this in a new car might not be such a good idea. One has no idea what might be needed to control one of these computers you guys drive around these days. This is how we used to do it back in the day. This isn't about limiting damage to your car. It's about not killing everyone in the car, you included. Not much consideration was put into what this might do to your transmission/torque converter/clutch.

Automatic.
Don't panic! Turn off the ignition. The car will begin to engine brake. Once you are certain you have control and the car begins to slow, apply smooth and strong pressure on the brake pedal. The power assist of the brakes will do less and less as the engine RPM slows, so be prepared to push firmly. Even with both feet if you must.

Standard.
This is really easy. Clutch then brake. Forget what the engine is doing until the passengers are safe. Once you have control you may turn off the ignition but it isn't necessary and it's actually better if you wait until your stopped to do it. Then your power brakes will function properly the whole time.

I had to do the Automatic procedure once in an 84 sport coup with horrible rear drum brakes. Thankfully I was on an empty backwoods road.
 
Steve said:
Arguing in favor of a company with 10 years of the SAME COMPLAINT...a complaint that went unfixed....a company that flat out calls its customers stupid by blaming floormats and BRAGGING about limiting its initial recall, which led to other people dying from a KNOWN defect....dude, c'mon.
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Car and Driver came to the conclusion that most likely in all cases the crashes and deaths were due to driver error, and that the reason Toyota is even doing a recall at all is simply to avoid public backlash. Audi faced a similar problem in the 80s, and it was determined that the causes were all driver error. Despite that, Audi sales tanked for 5 years.

Hell, if your Toyota starts accelerating and you panic - hit the brakes. That would be my first reaction, and it would work:
Camry V-6:
70-0 no throttle: 174 ft
70-0 full throttle: 190 ft

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/ca...dal_media_circus_and_stupid_drivers-editorial
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/09q4/how_to_deal_with_unintended_acceleration-tech_dept
 
BallerX said:
This has happened to me before, in my young and stupid years. I learned the hard way to make sure that my linkages moved freely and smoothly before jumping in and trying out my new carb.

These days they just say to slam your brakes. Too me, depending on the speed you are going, this is a bad idea.

What I was taught to do a long time ago.
Disclaimer:
Doing this in a new car might not be such a good idea. One has no idea what might be needed to control one of these computers you guys drive around these days. This is how we used to do it back in the day. This isn't about limiting damage to your car. It's about not killing everyone in the car, you included. Not much consideration was put into what this might do to your transmission/torque converter/clutch.

Automatic.
Don't panic! Turn off the ignition. The car will begin to engine brake. Once you are certain you have control and the car begins to slow, apply smooth and strong pressure on the brake pedal. The power assist of the brakes will do less and less as the engine RPM slows, so be prepared to push firmly. Even with both feet if you must.

Standard.
This is really easy. Clutch then brake. Forget what the engine is doing until the passengers are safe. Once you have control you may turn off the ignition but it isn't necessary and it's actually better if you wait until your stopped to do it. Then your power brakes will function properly the whole time.

I had to do the Automatic procedure once in an 84 sport coup with horrible rear drum brakes. Thankfully I was on an empty backwoods road.
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Automatic OR standard: Shift in to neutral - problem solved ;)
 
Tom_McCarroll said:
New Toyota's don't have keys its all push button start.
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i forget that... but it should still shut off if you hit the button? maybe thats what those people were doing and it didnt shut off, i dont think i read into that far.
 
kllrnohj said:
Automatic OR standard: Shift in to neutral - problem solved ;)
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its not bad advice, but honestly in that situation most people would end up just throwing it in reverse or park by flying right past the nuetral position. it would still do about the same thing, but you can tear up your tranny too. i still think shutting off the ignition is the first thing you should do- then brake and go to nuetral if you can. even if you cant do that latter two things, youll roll to a stop eventually.
 
This whole thing with Toyota is just an opportunity for the cars companies that took bailouts to jump up and down and scream about how great it was that they are still around to rescue us from the evil-doers.

No doubt this will lead to a $3000 per car import tax in the next few years as some kind of justified backlash. Gotta keep those US cars competitive right?
 
Bgrngod said:
This whole thing with Toyota is just an opportunity for the cars companies that took bailouts to jump up and down and scream about how great it was that they are still around to rescue us from the evil-doers.

No doubt this will lead to a $3000 per car import tax in the next few years as some kind of justified backlash. Gotta keep those US cars competitive right?
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i would imagine it is setting off all the car companies to implement more fail-safes. this toyota hype has gotten so bad that if another manufacturer was pegged with the same problem it would be 10x worse for them now they doubly-claimed their stance.
 
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