Totally clueless. Please Help (pick motherboard Z490 $150 to $350 max). Maybe Ram as well

edo101

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 16, 2018
Messages
321
Hi guys, I got a deal on a 10850K. Consensus seems to be for me to use and build with it. I have been on my i7-930 for 10 years so I am so out of the loop of modern gaming CPUs.

What I am looking for is a mobo that I can OC my 10850K to 5.2Ghz or more if possible on Air. But the goal is the 5.0 to 5.2 advertised boosting. I'd like the mobo to have a iGPU and a decent amount of USB3.0 ports. I assume thunderbolt is out of the question for gaming oriented ones. RGB would be a nice plus but not a complete dealbreaker

In that same token, I am looking for 16GB of solid memory that won't break the bank. Maybe I should make two different posts but figured mobo and rams go hand in hand?

Thanks in advance.
 

somebrains

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Messages
1,549

I hope your case has enough intake and width for something D15 sized.
Problem with z490 boards is the "good" ones are $$$
Ram is $ and plentiful enough right now, and there aren't the gains in overclocking on Intel.
 

doubletake

Gawd
Joined
Apr 27, 2013
Messages
663
I'd like the mobo to have a iGPU

For Intel, consumer boards don't have iGPUs in them anymore (for the most part); this is all up to the CPU now. Your 10850K has built-in Intel UHD630, so what you're left to decide on is what kind of outputs you need the motherboard to have. Some lower-end ones only have HDMI and/or DVI, while most mid-range ones will have HDMI + DP and skip the DVI.

The only time you have to take external graphics into consideration (on the consumer platforms, not HEDT) is if you buy a KF part (e.g. i9 10900KF), which are deliberately sold without an iGPU, or if you go AMD and buy any regular, non-APU chip.
 

edo101

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 16, 2018
Messages
321
For Intel, consumer boards don't have iGPUs in them anymore (for the most part); this is all up to the CPU now. Your 10850K has built-in Intel UHD630, so what you're left to decide on is what kind of outputs you need the motherboard to have. Some lower-end ones only have HDMI and/or DVI, while most mid-range ones will have HDMI + DP and skip the DVI.

The only time you have to take external graphics into consideration (on the consumer platforms, not HEDT) is if you buy a KF part (e.g. i9 10900KF), which are deliberately sold without an iGPU, or if you go AMD and buy any regular, non-APU chip.
Oh I said that because the Unify which everone keeps recommeding has no display outputs. I guess it shows how much I don't know lol
 

edo101

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 16, 2018
Messages
321

doubletake

Gawd
Joined
Apr 27, 2013
Messages
663
Oh I said that because the Unify which everone keeps recommeding has no display outputs. I guess it shows how much I don't know lol

Ah yeah, that's another thing to take into consideration, since some board makers assume (perhaps rightly so) that you wouldn't bother using the iGPU for output on those high-end models, and will just populate the space with more IO.
 

edo101

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 16, 2018
Messages
321
Ah yeah, that's another thing to take into consideration, since some board makers assume (perhaps rightly so) that you wouldn't bother using the iGPU for output on those high-end models, and will just populate the space with more IO.
For me its for emergency situations. I don't wanna drag two GPUs with me. I want to sell my old ones so I don't have them around taking up space. I like having a backup
 

somebrains

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Messages
1,549
Go buy a used $50 something as a backup gpu.
I wouldn't let a "maybe" feature hold me back from 24/7 features I need right now.

This is an Intel platform, so whatever decent spec ram at or above your cpu minimum will be fine.

Gains are crazy 5133mhz clocks where they're doing it for other reasons than performance.

This isn't Ryzen, where they've gone upside down in where they get fps increases. You ideally want an aio that'll keep your heat down if you're chasing 5.3ghz+

Keep in mind there are some games that won't start if you're clocked, Cod specifically has been pummeling cpu and gpu thermals on start.
 

edo101

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 16, 2018
Messages
321
Go buy a used $50 something as a backup gpu.
I wouldn't let a "maybe" feature hold me back from 24/7 features I need right now.

This is an Intel platform, so whatever decent spec ram at or above your cpu minimum will be fine.

Gains are crazy 5133mhz clocks where they're doing it for other reasons than performance.

This isn't Ryzen, where they've gone upside down in where they get fps increases. You ideally want an aio that'll keep your heat down if you're chasing 5.3ghz+

Keep in mind there are some games that won't start if you're clocked, Cod specifically has been pummeling cpu and gpu thermals on start.

What do you mean won't start if I'm clocked? You mean these games won't play if my CPU is overlocked?
 

somebrains

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Messages
1,549
What do you mean won't start if I'm clocked? You mean these games won't play if my CPU is overlocked?
Yeah, it's been a giant pain in the ass since BO4 that I'm aware of.
I don't play Battlefield, but those guys had similar issues.
I got off a Ryzen build and onto my current sig rig just bc I was tired of dicking with a pc just to play an hour or so a day.

Reliability, don't buy yourself away from that.
 

edo101

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 16, 2018
Messages
321
Yeah, it's been a giant pain in the ass since BO4 that I'm aware of.
I don't play Battlefield, but those guys had similar issues.
I got off a Ryzen build and onto my current sig rig just bc I was tired of dicking with a pc just to play an hour or so a day.

Reliability, don't buy yourself away from that.

I suppose a RAM speed of 3800 is enough for 4K? And won't stop me from achieving 5.0 Ghz on a 10850K? I'm shooting for 16GB as well. Does RAM timings matter?
 

somebrains

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Messages
1,549
Ram speed won't matter for 4k, this is an Intel build.
Dumping an ass load of $ into a gpu matters.

This is an Intel build, your core speeds are independent.

Maybe you should take a breath and figure out what you're doing before you spray a ton of voltage at ram or cpu.

Threshold for thermal ceiling with air cooling is much lower than liquid, so you tend to want to know where you are just blasting fast down your manifold for no horsepower gains.
 

edo101

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 16, 2018
Messages
321
Ram speed won't matter for 4k, this is an Intel build.
Dumping an ass load of $ into a gpu matters.

This is an Intel build, your core speeds are independent.

Maybe you should take a breath and figure out what you're doing before you spray a ton of voltage at ram or cpu.

Threshold for thermal ceiling with air cooling is much lower than liquid, so you tend to want to know where you are just blasting fast down your manifold for no horsepower gains.
When you say air cooler? I've always relied and preferred air cooler cause its so low maintenance. Are you saying water cooling is the only thing that can keep things ~80C? at 5.0ghz? And by water cooling, do you mean AIO? I thought AIO were more for cosmetics than actually functionality?
 

edo101

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 16, 2018
Messages
321
If you know how to overclock they won't be independent, as one can have all cores at or more than 5.0GHz, simultaneously, like my 9900KF.

edo101: Get a good ASUS board, they're easy to overclock with and the software allows your CPU to go as far as it can be pushed. The other brands are not my cup of tea and did try a GIGASUCKS board and it turned out to be a horrible experience overclocking with that thing.
For RAM, go with Corsair 3200MHz kit.

Now, the best part, you can get the be quiet Dark Rock Pro 4 cooler which I have and it's a great cooler for $79.99 with a $5 gift card. https://www.newegg.com/be-quiet-dark-rock-pro-4-bk022/p/13C-001F-00027?Description=be quiet dark rock pro 4&cm_re=be_quiet dark rock pro 4-_-9SIA68V6YA3005-_-Product&quicklink=true

And No, you don't have to get an AIO or custom water cooling to hit 5.0GHz or more with the 10 series.

This is the moderobard I'd suggest/recommend, I have the Z390 HERO XI and is a very good board.

I am trying to decide between these two mobos:
https://www.newegg.com/asus-rog-strix-z490-e-gaming/p/N82E16813119268
https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813157922

I keep hearing conflicting things. I want to stay on air but people say to get 5.0Ghz on all cores I need a minimum an AIO and recommend a water loop. People have recommend the Noctua 15
 

mda

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Mar 23, 2011
Messages
1,953
With both those boards, you likely would be limited by your particular CPU in terms of overclocking.

You may be able to do 5.0 ghz on Air with a Noctua D15 or equivalent, but also dependent on how much you can undervolt your particular chip/silicon lottery.

10 Cores at 14nm generate a lot of heat.
 

edo101

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 16, 2018
Messages
321
With both those boards, you likely would be limited by your particular CPU in terms of overclocking.

You may be able to do 5.0 ghz on Air with a Noctua D15 or equivalent, but also dependent on how much you can undervolt your particular chip/silicon lottery.

10 Cores at 14nm generate a lot of heat.

So AIO then? I will not do a full waterloop. Thats just a disaster waiting to happen. Are both of those boards solid boards?
 

edo101

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 16, 2018
Messages
321
AIO is good, but if you want long-term cooling, air cooling is a good option, water-loop is not a disaster to happen but the cost is ridiculous and the chip would run hot if you push the CPU at 5.2GHz anyway. The 10800K has a max frequency of 5.2GHz, it can be achieved with a good motherboard and good cooling, and if you go with AIO, get a 280mm rad, the 240mm rads are not as effective.

As for the boards, I only buy ASUS, my HERO XI has been great since day 1 and never had an issue and the software also. I don't go with any other brand since the GIGASUCKS fiasco, so as for the ASRock? I don't know how reliable is the software and BIOS, but it looks like a good board, nevertheless, I'd go with the ASUS HERO XII but the Strix is your cup of tea then that one.

Now, generally for an AIO, I'd recommend Corsair but since that so many other put out their own version, the be quiet! PURE LOOP 360mm is what I'd highly suggest because it has a nickel-plated CPU block and it can be refilled and for the price of $119.99, it's a great choice: https://www.newegg.com/be-quiet-liquid-cooling-system/p/2YM-0069-00004
I wish be quiet! has had that when I bought my Loop last year, I wouldn't ever spend so much money on this Loop.

And here you go, the review:
I'm out, no mo' help!!
I don't know anything about AIOs, when you say refill, what do you refill it with? how often do you need to refill? What other maintenance is associated with AIOs?

I am after that Asus ROG Strix Gaming. But now somebody suggested I wait for Z590 boards Nasgul
 

lopoetve

Fully [H]
Joined
Oct 11, 2001
Messages
30,779
Ok, to help summarize a bit:
1. This is an intel setup; RAM speed doesn't matter that much (the chips aren't bandwidth bound like Ryzen tends to be). Also VERY tolerant of RAM type, so pick what you like on that - Corsair, G.Skill, whatever, of decent speed and be happy with it.
2. 4k Gaming is almost 100% GPU bound. The rest doesn't matter that much - expect to need a 6800XT/3080/6900XT/3090 on the GPU side. Ignore the iGPU - pick up a $30-50 used cheapo in case of emergency.
3. Air cooling is fine. Water cooling is fine. AIO cooling is fine. The difference is in how long to true peak "heat soaked" temperatures, and secondarily, how well they each handle a spike (how fast does it return to idle) - air is shortest, then AIO, then water, reverse that for spike-idle temp return. All has to do with how much you have to hold / disperse heat. 14nm chips run REALLY hot, especially if you're doing AVX (one of the reasons the prime guys recommend turning it off for stress testing, as 100% AVX loads are rare). Corsair makes good AIOs these days, the Be Quiet one is good too. If going air, pick the best Noctua or Be Quiet you can fit on the board and still squeeze in the DIMMs. They're going to be big, no matter what. I run all three on different systems (air on a couple, AIO on another, and a custom loop on my gaming box). Arctic Freezer makes a really nice one with VRM cooling, but that tends to matter less on Intel (if I remember right), way more on Ryzen.
4. Z590/Z490 - eh. Not sure how much a difference there really will be. Good Z490 boards SHOULD have PCIE4 compatibility, but gaming that won't matter that much any time soon, and the chips have a relatively unknown ETA - 10th gen is PCIE3 only, but you won't notice for games (only disk benchmarks and the like) - real world testing shows no difference for gaming workloads (1-2% max). Get what you can; right now, 10th gen is easy to find. It wasn't at release, we don't know if 11th will be the same way.
5. AIOs have no maintenance 99% of the time. I've yet to have one fail, and some of mine are 8+ years old. In theory, the likely part to die is the pump, in which case the system simply thermal throttles until you fix it - thermal throttles hard (or might shut off, but it won't hurt it) - it's designed for that in case you do something stupid like forget to put the HSF on.

Should be an easy build. OCing - you can either let it boost default, do auto-boost (most motherboards have some form of this - my Z490 Aorus Master just sets all cores to the max boost and then uses thermals / power / time to determine what to do, I think - haven't looked that much), or manually set voltages/speeds like before. Pick your poison and see how it does. Since almost nothing is CPU bound at 4k, I put WAY less effort into this than I used to - and I'm at 1440P.
 

edo101

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 16, 2018
Messages
321
Ok, to help summarize a bit:
1. This is an intel setup; RAM speed doesn't matter that much (the chips aren't bandwidth bound like Ryzen tends to be). Also VERY tolerant of RAM type, so pick what you like on that - Corsair, G.Skill, whatever, of decent speed and be happy with it.
2. 4k Gaming is almost 100% GPU bound. The rest doesn't matter that much - expect to need a 6800XT/3080/6900XT/3090 on the GPU side. Ignore the iGPU - pick up a $30-50 used cheapo in case of emergency.
3. Air cooling is fine. Water cooling is fine. AIO cooling is fine. The difference is in how long to true peak "heat soaked" temperatures, and secondarily, how well they each handle a spike (how fast does it return to idle) - air is shortest, then AIO, then water, reverse that for spike-idle temp return. All has to do with how much you have to hold / disperse heat. 14nm chips run REALLY hot, especially if you're doing AVX (one of the reasons the prime guys recommend turning it off for stress testing, as 100% AVX loads are rare). Corsair makes good AIOs these days, the Be Quiet one is good too. If going air, pick the best Noctua or Be Quiet you can fit on the board and still squeeze in the DIMMs. They're going to be big, no matter what. I run all three on different systems (air on a couple, AIO on another, and a custom loop on my gaming box). Arctic Freezer makes a really nice one with VRM cooling, but that tends to matter less on Intel (if I remember right), way more on Ryzen.
4. Z590/Z490 - eh. Not sure how much a difference there really will be. Good Z490 boards SHOULD have PCIE4 compatibility, but gaming that won't matter that much any time soon, and the chips have a relatively unknown ETA - 10th gen is PCIE3 only, but you won't notice for games (only disk benchmarks and the like) - real world testing shows no difference for gaming workloads (1-2% max). Get what you can; right now, 10th gen is easy to find. It wasn't at release, we don't know if 11th will be the same way.
5. AIOs have no maintenance 99% of the time. I've yet to have one fail, and some of mine are 8+ years old. In theory, the likely part to die is the pump, in which case the system simply thermal throttles until you fix it - thermal throttles hard (or might shut off, but it won't hurt it) - it's designed for that in case you do something stupid like forget to put the HSF on.

Should be an easy build. OCing - you can either let it boost default, do auto-boost (most motherboards have some form of this - my Z490 Aorus Master just sets all cores to the max boost and then uses thermals / power / time to determine what to do, I think - haven't looked that much), or manually set voltages/speeds like before. Pick your poison and see how it does. Since almost nothing is CPU bound at 4k, I put WAY less effort into this than I used to - and I'm at 1440P.
Thanks for the summary lopoetve. I went with an Asrock Taichi for its PCIE 4 support and other Artice Freezer Liquid 2. 360 and 280 MM version. The 360 MM version might not make it to me due to the hot deals for less selller.
 
Top