"Total War: Rome II" Developers on Female Generals: "Don’t Like It? Don’t Play It"

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by Megalith, Sep 23, 2018.

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  1. haste.

    haste. [H]ard|Gawd

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    Why do you care? Youre scared of anything that isnt a white Male? Honestly grow a pair guys and stop giving a shit about silly things... unless of course you are a bigot then continue your lifestyle.
     
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  2. haste.

    haste. [H]ard|Gawd

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    This is terrifying. So you bow down to your alternative conspiracy driven media gods? I'm confused. Is anything that disagrees with the tunnel vision of reality you've created "mainstream" media? Are you saying that fox, Breitbart, and the tinfoil lunatics on the internet aren't "mainstream" media?
     
  3. Joust

    Joust 2[H]4U

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    Fox is mainstream. I'm not sure where Breitbart fits; admittedly, I don't really read it. Tinfoil hats are not mainstream.

    I'm not sure I totally get what you're saying here. These are or are not mainstream?
     
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  4. haste.

    haste. [H]ard|Gawd

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    Making the point that "mainstream media" is the terminology that the fringe is using to describe anything that doesn't agree with the shallow view of the world they believe in. I would say that Infowars, although not traditional mainstream media, has a large enough following to fall into that group (and certainly tinfoil hat internet babble).
     
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  5. Joust

    Joust 2[H]4U

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    You can call it a half-baked burrito, but it is still a mainstream media outlet.
     
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  6. harbingerofdoom

    harbingerofdoom Gawd

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    you are making an assumption that i only purchase new games.
    this is completely untrue i buy old stuff all the time.
     
  7. Joust

    Joust 2[H]4U

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    Stick with new tech and old liquor. You'll be just fine.
     
  8. Joust

    Joust 2[H]4U

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    Pretty sure that's C-SPAN.
     
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  9. Merc1138

    Merc1138 2[H]4U

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    People like you are the reason this is even a "thing".

    People bought a historically accurate game, and then the developers changed it after the fact to make it no longer as historically accurate as they could.

    The developers had previously released DLC for the game with female characters, it was optional and hardly anyone said a peep about it. If they had done the same with the game and patched it so people could turn on this "feature" you wouldn't see people bitching about it. Instead paying customers are getting bullshit shoved down their throats that they didn't want, they're complaining about it... and then people like you decide to just start calling everyone bigots and all sorts of other crap.

    At least EA had the sense to tell people not to buy their game beforehand, rather than telling them not to play the game after they purchased it.

    Do you actually own anything? At all? Do you have a car? Would you appreciate it if the manufacturer changed your car after the fact and then when you expressed your opinion on the matter were just told to not drive it? Do you own a home? What if the builder suddenly decided to change your home after the fact and said "just don't live there then" even though you already bought it?

    NO ONE is stating that female characters don't belong in war/strategy games. They're saying they don't belong in every game that was at the time of purchase attempting to be historically accurate. That doesn't make those people bigots, or any of the other crap you'd likely refer to people once you find a new word of the day.
     
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  10. Uvaman2

    Uvaman2 2[H]4U

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    Its called identity marketing, and its all a calculated campaign.. once i truly understood that, i just don't care anymore, if anything this type of marketing falls on the no column for me.. but its still successfull even with me since i am still paying attention.
    I know 2 cornerstones of marketing are IRRITATION, and repetition theres more i forgot, but whatever.. i know irritation is part of it for sure.. "Irritation" is not necessarily making you angry, but more refers to a stimulation to grab you.. could be funny, could be sexy.. or it could be actual irritation and manufactored conflict... This is as old as marketing itself.. which is what 100 years in present form? More?
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2018
  11. cageymaru

    cageymaru [H]ard as it Gets

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    I think that everyone should go read the Steam forums for the game and learn what happened.

    This is the thread that started the war from the Steam forums. Some guys were upset that tribes of barbarians could start off with female rulers in the game, which then led to discussions about "Cleopatra" being able to lead because she was female and other reasons. Someone made a mod to lower the chance of women rising to power which then escalated to trolling level 11 and political fighting. Then the community manager banned the trolls after telling them to use the mod mentioned in the thread or just not play the game.
    https://steamcommunity.com/app/214950/discussions/0/1698293068433895118

    Community Manager Response.png

    Here are the tribes that have queens in the game. According to players in the thread, Romans can have strong women in politics, but can't have female generals. Also goes for a few other factions.
    https://www.totalwar.com/blog/desert-kingdoms-patch-notes

    Total War Rome II_Female Leaders.png

    The outrage is over the inability to lower the female leadership chance to 0% because some argue that no women have ever led a society. They say that they were just there to look cute as men did all the ruling from the shadows in those cases. It is what it is.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2018
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  12. Merc1138

    Merc1138 2[H]4U

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    No, that's not what it is. Even in that list, the majority of those leaders(if they could even be called that) were in power for less than a decade, and a lot of those far less than that. With few exceptions, most of them were simply figureheads at best and were certainly NOT generals in any sense of the word. You're right that giving the players the ability to turn the crap off or at least keep the spawn rate percentage reasonably close to realistic(which would still be next to nothing) is missing, and is how it should have been handled from the start, or perhaps CA should have just done the research that the author of the mod claims to have done to come to the percentages that he did in the first place... which BTW doesn't change the chance for female leadership in the game to 0%.

    At least you were able to reply without calling everyone bigots and implying that they're misogynists unlike that haste. guy, even if you're still conflating the actual problem people had with the developers to be more than it really was.
     
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  13. SixFootDuo

    SixFootDuo [H]ardness Supreme

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    I'm really getting wore out on all of this crap. The game companies could do a much better job representing both sides.

    Enough is enough ... Give us a fail safe button so if we don't want to hear / see women .. then we don't have to. It would take very little effort to allow the end user to load up male content on their own PC allowing the other parties to be all the woman they want to be on there own shit.

    They could do this with any game.

    Let the end user decide what the want to hear and see. Christ ... then all the problems would go away.

    If any of you dudes wanted to be a woman in a game ( whatever goes on in your personal life is your business, I respect that .. do not force that on others however ) Its a two street and respect goes both ways.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2018
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  14. Skyblue

    Skyblue Limp Gawd

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    Inspiration for the next Total War. Youre welcome :)

     
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  15. Merc1138

    Merc1138 2[H]4U

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    I'm sure your sensible idea of simply giving consumers the choice without telling them they need to not buy the game, go find a mod to do it for them, or just go and get fucked after paying up, offends someone out there somewhere.
     
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  16. Dekoth-E-

    Dekoth-E- [H]ardness Supreme

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    I mean, all I want is for my historical games to be as reasonably accurate as possible. As has been mentioned, at no point have women ever been generals in this context. Sorry but facts are facts and I don't support revisionist history. Now if you want to make a fantasy game where the lead is a female. I mean I'm all for that and frankly, especially in the case of third person or over the person I flatly prefer a female avatar. Why? Generally speaking a small female wielding a stupidly large weapon and kicking ass on a mass scale is fun to me. Pushing stupid political ideologies into a game isn't.
     
  17. kju1

    kju1 2[H]4U

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    Why do YOU care? Its just a video game. Doesnt need to be SWJed up or down...
     
  18. Siersoren

    Siersoren [H]Lite

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    You have a gross misunderstanding of bigotry.

    Wanting to see history understood, but not altered is not bigotry. Wanting to care about it is merely being a responsible adult with desires not to relive the mistakes of the past.

    Additionally, you can most certainly not support a behavior without hating the individual. For instance: I do not support homosexuality. But I most certainly do NOT support the stance that homosexuals should be persecuted in any way.
     
  19. damicatz

    damicatz 2[H]4U

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    OK, let me go ahead and put a stop to this nonsense before people end up having a coronary.

    The article in question is nothing but a bunch of bullshit designed to stir things up. There ARE female generals in Rome II where it would be historically appropriate as you can play as more than just Ancient Rome (e.g. you can play as the celts; see Boudica). There are no female generals to my knowledge for the Roman faction and any such appearances would be a bug.

    Let's put down the pitchforks folks.
     
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  20. cageymaru

    cageymaru [H]ard as it Gets

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    No, it seems that they were trolling and got banned for it. :) At some point you either accept the way that someone wants to do something or you do like the developer says and not play. If you don't like the way that a game is designed then skip it. Don't buy it.

    So many people think that game developers are supposed to cater to them. That they are supposed to write games and listen to the community for ideas... Blah, blah blah. They don't. It is literally their creation. If you want to purchase a license to play their creation then buy it. If having the option via a mod to change something to you don't like to almost zero still annoys you then find something else to play.

    It is just a game. A game created by someone else. If is NOT your creation. If you spend $30, $60, $120 on the game it is NOT your game still. You're only buying a license to play until the owner of the code decides that you can't play. Yes, games get removed from your game library all the time on Steam. So a game is a "license to use software" that the purchaser NEVER owns.


    This subject needs less outrage from people and more finding something else to do that appeals to those offended. Play something else. Go outdoors. Spend $60 on gas to go to the beach. Enjoy yourself! Why torture your soul complaining about a.... Video game?

    That's how I see it.

    /shrug

    :)
     
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  21. Merc1138

    Merc1138 2[H]4U

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    Not everyone who had an opinion that was apparently not liked by the CA staff was a "troll". Trolls certainly exist and should be ignored, but that doesn't change the fact that the developers did something after the fact that people disagree with.

    You're right, it's not the creation of the people who bought the game. It's also not really theirs based on software licensing either. However this is a case of a software company doing something after the fact to fuck with their paying customers. If Blizzard decided to just delete half of the available overwatch skins, people would bitch and complain. If EA decided that after BFV launches everyone will have a purple or green skin tone, people would just about riot. But that would be EA, the big evil company everyone hates... just because Creative Assembly is smaller doesn't mean they should get a pass.

    Also, just because you don't give a shit doesn't mean everyone who did spend money should just be happy that the developers have effectively thrown their money right into a fireplace since they no longer have the game they bought. It's actually kind of funny that you've managed to ignore that people want CHOICE instead of having this crap rammed down their throats, and you expect people to just not give a crap about money they've spent.
     
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  22. damicatz

    damicatz 2[H]4U

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    Except that this entire thing is fake news. They didn't rewrite history; most of what the article claims they did they didn't. All they did was add female characters for factions where it would have historically made sense. They didn't add them for Rome or the Greeks or any of the factions that were patriarchal. This entire article is manufactured outrage by someone on the alt-right with an agenda who clearly doesn't play the game and [H]ardOCP really needs to do a better job of checking their sources before blindly linking to such nonsense.
     
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  23. M76

    M76 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Is it to make money? I'm sure someone saying: "don't like it, don't play it" to their customers just wants to make money, and it's not a political statement at all. Because we all know saying don't play it to your customers is the best way to get more customers, right?
     
  24. kju1

    kju1 2[H]4U

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    Sure thats all well and good but try saying that to a SJW who demands that women not wear skimpy clothing or have anatomically correct breasts. Or to the people who complain that games are racist, violent, et al.

    Sure its just a video game but that doesnt stop people who want to censor it from getting all up in arms. I see these reactions as counters to their reactions...
     
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  25. Patton187

    Patton187 Gawd

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    You're cranky when you're hungry. Drink a can of soylent.
     
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  26. Merc1138

    Merc1138 2[H]4U

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    No, they didn't do it in a way that made sense, otherwise no one would have written a mod to lower the rates to something that actually made sense.

    You can't claim "fake news" just because the facts don't fit your agenda.
     
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  27. cageymaru

    cageymaru [H]ard as it Gets

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    That's why the game developers should NOT listen to them also. Make their game the way that they want to. Ship it. Fix the bugs. Onto the next game.
     
  28. cageymaru

    cageymaru [H]ard as it Gets

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    You can't please all of the people all of the time. If that is their vision for their game then they should follow it 100%. If you DON'T share the same vision then skip it. Would you buy yourself a pink dress to wear to out on the town? Or would you skip over that section of the clothing store?
     
  29. kju1

    kju1 2[H]4U

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    I agree and wish it was that way. I just dont see that happening though (sadly).
     
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  30. nightanole

    nightanole [H]ard|Gawd

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    Meh i will just pretend that everyone is LARPing and they took pictures of everyone and said "lets make a reenactment game, that sounds fun".

    Ill get a bit salty when they start changing historical figures, and napoleon is now a black woman because she "acted the roll the best".
     
  31. Rizen

    Rizen [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I truly don't understand why anyone gives a shit about this. Don't you all have better stuff to worry about then genders of generals in a video game?
     
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  32. Trepidati0n

    Trepidati0n [H]ardForum Junkie

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    You answered your own question...they don't.
     
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  33. Merc1138

    Merc1138 2[H]4U

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    Would you skip that section of the clothing store? Let's say you did, and bought yourself a nice jacket instead. Oops, manufacturer decided after you bought it that it's now a pink dress, in your closet it has changed to a pink dress, you can't get a refund and when you question it you're told to just not wear it or go take it to someone to sew back into a jacket.
     
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  34. Lith1um

    Lith1um 2[H]4U

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    Chicks play games. They probably would like to use female avatars. I don't see the problem with including them.
     
  35. Merc1138

    Merc1138 2[H]4U

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    Sure, and give players the choice for that instead of forcing it.
     
  36. Jagger100

    Jagger100 [H]ardness Supreme

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    And Deep State TV is CNN, MSNBC, and FoxNews.
     
  37. M76

    M76 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    This is not a pink dress, but a part of a series. And more importantly not a clothing store. And even if it was, you don't tell your customer don't like it don't buy it, if you want to remain in business for long. At the very least if you have no intention of catering to some needs, you explain it respectfully, so they may buy something else from you later. This is not that hard even for someone who never worked in commerce.
     
  38. Jagger100

    Jagger100 [H]ardness Supreme

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    Your concerned died when you began talking about a video game. Why are you criticizing an issue as inconsequential in an past-time that is inconsequential to begin with?
     
  39. Lith1um

    Lith1um 2[H]4U

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    You could apply that logic to the people who are so pissed off that they won't purchase or play the game.
     
  40. Jagger100

    Jagger100 [H]ardness Supreme

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    #1 the issue is they are retroactively changing the game which because Steam is so hardwired to auto-update most people can't stop. THis is not unlike the issue where Amazon deleted purchased books form people's libraries. Basically people bought game X with the idea maitenance and additional content patches would be the only ones going forward.

    This is a clever way to try to side-step get work, go broke.

    I basically need to drop Steam, if steam's not able to prevent this practice. If this is DLC I could turn off (maybe it is, I can't get to the story) I wouldn't care.
     
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