Total War: Rome II Developers Issue Statement on Criticisms of Female Generals Feature

Discussion in '[H]ard|OCP Front Page News' started by cageymaru, Sep 25, 2018.

  1. cageymaru

    cageymaru [H]ard|News

    Messages:
    18,904
    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2003
    As the "review bombing" of the strategy game Total War: Rome II continues on Steam, Creative Assembly has issued a statement meant to address criticisms of the game's portrayal of female generals and their historical relevancy. First they addressed the accusations that they increased the spawn rate of females available for recruitment in the game by stating, "There have been no changes to recruitable female general spawn rates, but with the addition of the family tree and the new gameplay options it brings, playable factions may gain more female family members via marriage. If a player has their male family members seek a wife and get married, more females enter the family. This means more female characters may appear as recruitable generals, but again, only in those factions where female characters may be recruited as generals." The developers go on to explain the spawn rate and which factions may have female generals based on their cultural differences.

    These percentage chances are moddable by players. We've not seen a verifiable bug where this is shown to be different or not working as intended. We have no plans to patch this out or remove this feature from the game.
     
  2. JavaLava

    JavaLava [H]Lite

    Messages:
    66
    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2018
    Love how everyone is a historian these days on games they play....instead of just playing a game and realizing its a GAME.
     
  3. Patton187

    Patton187 Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    422
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2012
    Stunning and brave. Im certain the 5 women who play CA games are excited.
     
  4. Upgrayedd

    Upgrayedd [H]Lite

    Messages:
    80
    Joined:
    May 17, 2018
    I like how they go from "fuck you, we don't care if you buy it or not." To trying to carefully explain what the addition is for damage control.
     
  5. DeathFromBelow

    DeathFromBelow [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    10,096
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2005
    From the statement:
    I had a feeling this was another alt-SJW troll campaign. Some people need to get a life...
     
    Baenwort and cyclone3d like this.
  6. Rizen

    Rizen [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    9,100
    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2000
    It's being pushed by The Daily Stormer, so basically yes.
     
  7. Stryke1983

    Stryke1983 Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    229
    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2011
    So, as expected, vast outrage over absolutely nothing.
     
  8. M76

    M76 [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    7,725
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2012
    WTF is alt-SJW? If it is what I think it is, then that's just sad and pathetic, and shows the lack of imagination involved in coining that phrase.
     
    Baenwort likes this.
  9. Krazen

    Krazen Lurker

    Messages:
    100
    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2007
    I'm outraged by all the outrage!

    I can do that.....right?
     
    cyclone3d and scojer like this.
  10. Patton187

    Patton187 Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    422
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2012
    Your outrage is outrageous.
     
  11. jpm100

    jpm100 [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    7,166
    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2004
    Guilt by association and Everyone who disagrees with me is a Nazi in one shot. Bravo 10/10.
     
    Laowai, travanx, Baenwort and 11 others like this.
  12. Eickst

    Eickst [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,679
    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2005
    Why are you all still outraged by this, a newer news article was posted since this that deserves your outrage more
     
    westrock2000 and Dunnlang like this.
  13. dangerouseddy

    dangerouseddy Gawd

    Messages:
    536
    Joined:
    May 16, 2007
    well if they add a settings page where you can set the spawn rate yourself that should make most people happy, I would hope.
     
    Baenwort likes this.
  14. Rizen

    Rizen [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    9,100
    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2000
    defaultluser and Baenwort like this.
  15. PantherBlitz

    PantherBlitz Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    334
    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2011
    Seems logical to me. Rome and Greece would never have women generals but other cultures did on rare occasions.

    That said, I'm not gonna apply insta-hate to those that object.
     
    Baenwort likes this.
  16. Darunion

    Darunion Chin Poon Specialist

    Messages:
    3,055
    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Nothing will make people happy. So many just look for something to rage about online.
     
  17. silentsod

    silentsod n00bie

    Messages:
    41
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2010
    I'm glad they went through the statistics and logic behind what they're doing.

    The flipside of the coin is they had a PR disaster where one of their reps told people not to buy their game if they didn't like it instead of calmly explaining what was actually occurring at the outset.
     
    Baenwort, MaZa, jfreund and 1 other person like this.
  18. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

    Messages:
    25,516
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2000
    I accidentally read that as "female genitals" over and over again... :eek:

    There have been some high profile female generals in pre-20th century history, (Boudica of the Celts, and Joan of Arc come to mind) but they were certainly a minority.

    I don't have a bone in this fight. While in general I prefer historical accuracy in games, I've never played this series.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2018
    Baenwort and cageymaru like this.
  19. cageymaru

    cageymaru [H]ard|News

    Messages:
    18,904
    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2003
    There is a free mod on Steam that allows you to change it to 1% and that just angered the mob more.
     
    Baenwort, GHRTW and John721 like this.
  20. Siersoren

    Siersoren n00bie

    Messages:
    56
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2018
    Because SJWs are typically angry for the sake of being angry, regardless of whether or not logic is brought into it.

    In fact, logic traditionally makes them further enraged.

    Then you call them out on it, then they lose their minds.

    So yes - They are the ideal target for a troll.
     
    travanx and Madoc like this.
  21. B00nie

    B00nie [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    7,506
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2012
    Hahaha! What is wrong with the game makers today? Perhaps it's that male testosterone levels are at all time low. They're losing their balls.
     
  22. harbingerofdoom

    harbingerofdoom Gawd

    Messages:
    535
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2007
    yes, that would have been totally fine.... even if it had just been presented in a more reasonable light beyond that of "if you dont like it, dont play it and dont buy it... in fact, we'd be happier that you didnt" then it would have been fine.
    you want to alter history in a game? whatever... its your product and everyone will choose with their wallet anyway. but when you do, and then you get called on it, dont come off like your customers who have and/or will put money up to buy your product are suddenly scum for having an opinion on the matter (regardless of how wrong OR right they might be). and then to try to play word games to justify it like they did with their initial response? just not feelin it man... just not feelin it.
     
    Baenwort, Madoc and tbonepat11 like this.
  23. damicatz

    damicatz 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,719
    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2004
    Just another bullshit alt-right conspiracy theory being pushed by neo-nazis and russian bots. Are you all so insecure in your own masculinity that a video game character being female triggers you?
     
    Sickb0y, Draax and Rizen like this.
  24. Darunion

    Darunion Chin Poon Specialist

    Messages:
    3,055
    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    But but, if I play a female character it will make me catch a case of teh-gays.

    I can picture the masculinity already as they sit there playing their games. I know I am not at my sexiest at my pc lol.
     
    defaultluser and Sickb0y like this.
  25. nysmo

    nysmo Gawd

    Messages:
    941
    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2016
    Someone needs to make a truly historically accurate representation of commanding ancient war. You just sit there on a throne barking orders to a few people while getting BJ's from hand maidens and eating grapes.
     
    defaultluser and geok1ng like this.
  26. Timobkg

    Timobkg [H]Lite

    Messages:
    95
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2010
    I love how this whole outrage was over either random chance or people purposefully modding their games to create outrage. Clearly the RNG was trying to make a political statement.

    I wonder if the bulk of it could have been avoided had they released the actual rates sooner, rather than make antagonizing statements?
     
    Baenwort likes this.
  27. cyclone3d

    cyclone3d [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    12,488
    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2004
    HAHAHAHAHA.

    That being said, I feel like I should buy this game to further enrage the idiots that are feigning outrage over nothing.
     
  28. Ranulfo

    Ranulfo [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,117
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2006
    Hah, the good old insecurity argument, such a cliche. Most female mmo players I know play exclusively female characters/avatars. In the past 5-10 years that this issue has grown into a supposedly big deal, its mostly been activist women who usually don't play games beyond phone/tablet stuff complaining that every game under the sun doesn't have a female character option. That or complaints about chain mail bikinis being unrealistic. WoW's transmog system for armor customization destroyed that argument a few years ago. Women seem to be the ones who have a hard time being secure in their own femininity to play a male character. "Oh, I'm excited now for COD-WW2/Battlefield V because I can play a girl!" is apparently not sexist.

    You know, why don't we have a choice between Lara or Lawrence Croft. Why not a booby/dong slider for every game too? I want more realistic male representation in movies/books like Twlight or 50 Shades of Grey. Less sparkly vampires and more Yippee-Kai-yay explosions.
     
    PantherBlitz, Baenwort, Madoc and 2 others like this.
  29. Rizen

    Rizen [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    9,100
    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2000
    That's not what is going on here. This was a non-issue for months until a literal neo-nazi website wrote an article about it on September 23 and now the developers are being review bombed on Steam by angry basement dwellers because there's a 10% chance that a general in the game might spawn as a woman (and the cultures that legitimately kept women out of those roles, such as Greece and Rome, don't spawn female generals). This was intentionally manipulated to spur controversy.
     
    defaultluser likes this.
  30. Draax

    Draax [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    5,007
    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2005
    Lol at the pitiful incels who are review bombing.
     
  31. raz-0

    raz-0 [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    4,393
    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2003
    Seems to me as one of the vast population unaware that anyone owned this game and thus could care less, that the publisher shot themselves in the foot the moment they decided to get all fuck you to their customer base. Granted not as badly as some outlets, but it's CS, you say it professionally and with a smile even if what you are really saying is good bye, we are firing you as a customer. If you DON'T want to say that, you do it even more professionally.

    I'm starting to think that companies need to tell anyone invovled on a social platform, even forums to shut the fuck up unless they are a designated rep to speak for the company officially. Then for the official folks they need to take them about as seriously as they'd take someone they send to do a press conference in front of a dozen cameras and mics.
     
    Baenwort likes this.
  32. The_Capulet

    The_Capulet n00bie

    Messages:
    21
    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2017
    Yes, because nazis and russian bots give a damn about the gender of generals in a 4 year old game. GTFO of here.

    Take your nazi shit elsewhere if you can't even try to comprehend the situation. They did something that in some specific cases could be considered historically inaccurate in a game that sells it's historical accuracy. Then instead of explaining it away, they told everyone to fuck off if they didn't buy into their social justice changes (There's literally no reason to visit this feature/game this late unless you're trying to further the cause of social justice).

    That's going to piss a lot of people off. And if random neo-nazis also show their displeasure, that doesn't mean you get to call me a nazi by association, you ignorant piece of shit.
     
    Baenwort likes this.
  33. RanceJustice

    RanceJustice [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    5,558
    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2003
    It seems like many complaining are making a mountain out of a molehill in this particular case. The way the earlier "Don't like it, don't play" statement from CA and subsequent discussion sounded, they either suddenly added female generals where there were none before and players would turn off a game with a male general only to reload it after the update and find a female with the exact same name etc. If this was the case I think there would certainly be some justifiable concern and a respectful discussion to be had.

    However, when they took the time to make this statement and explain that female generals have always been part of the game since the inclusion of certain mechanics (ie marriage/family tree), that they may increase in frequency due to the expansion of certain game features, and would be limited to societies in which there was some historical justification for female generals... I can't see any reason to be upset. If anything, it seems like CA threw a match on gasoline by their original statement, but in the same way those who are still charging forward with boycotts or opposition seem to be more aligned with the Stormfront side pushing a narrative and not the reality of what's going on.

    I've not played this particular Total War title (my experience is Shogun 2 and the Warhammer series), but it seems like CA has properly responded explaining the situation in what seems to be a reasonable way, so I don't see any need for objection at this point?
     
    Baenwort likes this.
  34. filip

    filip Gawd

    Messages:
    920
    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2012
    While you make a good point. They can't just yell at people to stfu and tell them to not play the game, and then later say "these are the reasons" we said that. There was no reason to say what the developer had to say, you just don't do business like that, even if your client is wrong.
     
    Baenwort likes this.
  35. The_Capulet

    The_Capulet n00bie

    Messages:
    21
    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2017
    Here's a good review from steam in response to the controversy.
     
    Nytegard, PantherBlitz, MaZa and 2 others like this.
  36. The_Capulet

    The_Capulet n00bie

    Messages:
    21
    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2017
    That might be the case, but most people have missed all the news before now. They originally released it in a state that they had to patch because of bugs that put way more females in that even they intended. And after that release, had a developer that insulted everyone who disagreed and told them not to buy their game. (Of course, everyone bitching has already long since bought it).

    Then, finally, they patched out the bugs and released a statement explaining it, hoping it would erase the bad will they had JUST created a few days earlier.
     
    Baenwort likes this.
  37. Rizen

    Rizen [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    9,100
    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2000
    This content was rolled out back in March. This only blew up on the internet a few days ago. The developers themselves already stated they've reviewed the code and there isn't a bug; people modded the game to overrepresent women and then used that as evidence to spur controversy.
     
    Baenwort likes this.
  38. Tsumi

    Tsumi [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    12,605
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2010
    Well, I guess it was less politically driven than I thought. However, the dev's response was just outright wrong. Did they have their head buried in the sand when the Battlefield controversy was happening? All of this could have been avoided had they been a bit more careful about their words.
     
  39. theBrownLlama

    theBrownLlama Gawd

    Messages:
    561
    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2017
    what we are beginning to see is the nascent wave of evolutionary push back against the saturation of SJW , PC messaging and criticism which we have been bombarded with for the past 5 years.

    From BLM, #metoo, Gamergate, inclusion and diversity rhetoric by political leaders, mass media putting a spin on every story to include a race/gender/religion angle ,

    and their ridiculous but mass media and politically supported messaging and protests from anything from the right to use a Starbucks restroom without patronizing the store, to black washing in films, to protest about cheerleaders and grid girls, tearing down of statues and paintings, renaming buildings, SJW decisions on sci-fi books awards.... for games, just take a look at DOA.

    the zeitgeist of the rest has finally has coalesced around a central theme of reusing the same tactics of the left and far-left to let everybody whom rode on SJW to have a taste of their own medicine, plus using their much stronger spending power elsewhere. Seemingly the catch phrase of go-woke,go-broke has taken a foothold. Take the blowback from BF for instance. Other games of forced diversity or deliberate blandness of females in design will soon see an up swell of criticism on this .

    well, i say about damn time.
     
  40. DeathFromBelow

    DeathFromBelow [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    10,096
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2005
    Maybe. The statement you're talking about was cherry picked from a forum thread. The percentages for different factions were explained before then, so I can understand getting upset and telling the alt-sjw trolls to get over it.

    People need to get better at recognizing this sort of manufactured outrage. This trolling is going on everywhere and good people are bound to slip up sometimes.