Too much experience to be hired?

M

Modus

Weaksauce
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May 8, 2010
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Is it possible to have too much experience in this field? Over the years I've moved up the pay scales, however, I'm still not in the 100k range yet but very close. I have an issue which is no one wants to pay for my level of experience, I've even made a move to another state which is more suited for IT pros with the hopes of avoiding job search issues. I recently applied and interviewed at an M.S.P, the interview well I thought. I received an email that I thought was going to be an offer, however, it ended up being asked to come in for a short term contract to help some technical issues. I decided to call and get some more information I discovered that the position had been filled by someone else, but they wanted to see if they could leverage my expertise via contract. I told them I would think about it and to provide me a summary of some of the issues that need assistance.

If I had to guess, I would say that they filled that position that I applied for with someone who they could pay less. Has anyone else encountered issues like this? Anyone have any suggestions?
 
If there are people applying for the same job, but requesting less pay, even if they have less experience, they will generally get hired.

Companies would rather pay less for someone who can maybe limp through getting stuff done then to pay somebody who is actually good at it.

So it isn't necessarily the "too much experience" angle, more like the "you are asking more than they are willing to pay" problem.
 
cyclone3d said:
If there are people applying for the same job, but requesting less pay, even if they have less experience, they will generally get hired.

Companies would rather pay less for someone who can maybe limp through getting stuff done then to pay somebody who is actually good at it.

So it isn't necessarily the "too much experience" angle, more like the "you are asking more than they are willing to pay" problem.
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Perhaps you are correct. I refuse to take a pay cut; I would rather not have employer benefits if I have my choice.
 
It does sound like they hired the cheap person, and now want to use you short-term to get them through some tough issues that this person can't handle. They're hoping that once those issues are settled they can coast by with their newhire and it'll be cheaper in the long run.

Of course, this being IT, they'll may very well be bitten by this plan because things are never static. i wouldn't be surprised if in a year or two they're looking for a replacement or a new contract to figure out the new issues (depending on how good the newhire is at politics).

Unless you need the work, screw 'em. If you do take on the contract, don't be afraid to jump if you find a real opportunity elsewhere.
 
Have you considered seeking a position with a higher title that would presumably pay more?
 
gangolfus said:
Have you considered seeking a position with a higher title that would presumably pay more?
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If you take on a manager role successfully, you’ll focus on management. I don't confuse IT management with engineering. I've been in IT management before, and I don't desire that anymore, I want a technical leadership role or a technical lead with no direct reports that way I can focus on technology and solving issues. I don't care what the title is as long as it allows me to do the above and doesn't require a pay cut.
 
Modus said:
I want a technical leadership role or a technical lead with no direct reports that way I can focus on technology and solving issues. I don't care what the title is as long as it allows me to do the above and doesn't require a pay cut.
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Well as long as you stay flexible, I'm sure you'll find a job soon.
 
Modus said:
If you take on a manager role successfully, you’ll focus on management. I don't confuse IT management with engineering. I've been in IT management before, and I don't desire that anymore, I want a technical leadership role or a technical lead with no direct reports that way I can focus on technology and solving issues. I don't care what the title is as long as it allows me to do the above and doesn't require a pay cut.
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sadly with this statement your gonna hit a max without moving into mgt
 
Vengance_01 said:
sadly with this statement your gonna hit a max without moving into mgt
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I feel the same way. I would never want to be in an IT management position. Let me do my own thing and actually be hands on. Managing other people, even for more money, appeals to me not one bit.

I currently have my hands in regular IT work as well as scripting and programming for an international company. And ya know what, I am getting tired of IT work in general. Been doing it for way too many years.
 
Modus said:
If you take on a manager role successfully, you’ll focus on management. I don't confuse IT management with engineering. I've been in IT management before, and I don't desire that anymore, I want a technical leadership role or a technical lead with no direct reports that way I can focus on technology and solving issues. I don't care what the title is as long as it allows me to do the above and doesn't require a pay cut.
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I work for a large MSSP and hiring management from the outside is fairly common. It is far less common to hire technology leads from the outside. We promote our best people to those roles as a way to retain them. Almost all of our new hires start as contracts and the ones we like will be brought on as employees. It is far too common to get folks that look good on paper and interview well but turn out to be, for varied reasons, the wrong choice. In those cases it is far easier for us to correct the issue with a contractor vs an employee. I would also add that leads tend to be more focused on design and planning role vs the solving issues.
 
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cyclone3d said:
I currently have my hands in regular IT work as well as scripting and programming for an international company. And ya know what, I am getting tired of IT work in general. Been doing it for way too many years.
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What else could you see yourself doing other than IT ?
 
Modus said:
What else could you see yourself doing other than IT ?
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Maybe mobile game programming. I am actually working towards doing that right now.

Pretty much just tired of working for somebody else and having to "fix" the same exact things over and over again (PEBKAC). Sure, it gives me job security, but it is getting mundane and boring.
 
Modus, have you applied in the financial fields? Banks, private investment firms, etc?


You will probably need to move to Chicago or NY however...
 
/dev/null said:
Modus, have you applied in the financial fields? Banks, private investment firms, etc?


You will probably need to move to Chicago or NY however...
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The finance sector isn't really large where I live and that's a good thing. I don't plan on moving again (especially to Chicago or NY) I love it where I am.
 
I left the IT industry. Cisco Certified and all.

Im back in university preparing for Med School. Screw IT.

Everything is getting so smart and automated that there really isn't any long term job security anymore in network engineering.
 
Modus said:
Is it possible to have too much experience in this field? Over the years I've moved up the pay scales, however, I'm still not in the 100k range yet but very close. I have an issue which is no one wants to pay for my level of experience...
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I believe many times the problems are that too many people specialize in just a few technologies and don't branch out enough. Most of the higher paying positions I see today require a broad range of technologies and experience. It's not just a MS SA anymore, now you need VMware, Cisco, and Netapps or similar. Kids today are coming out of college with a far wider breadth of knowledge and companies are much more willing to hire cheaper talent with a possibly higher technical ceiling. The jobs that are going to consistently pay well for experience are the kind of jobs that you can't just hire college kids to do. Things that require a lot of prior knowledge of policies, implementation, integration, enterprise and federation level experience, etc.

tangoseal said:
I left the IT industry. Cisco Certified and all.

Im back in university preparing for Med School. Screw IT.

Everything is getting so smart and automated that there really isn't any long term job security anymore in network engineering.
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Funny, since I am in network engineering and have no lack of high paid offers. Being Cisco Certified doesn't really matter much. I don't even have a single Cisco, Juniper, Palo Alto, or similar certification. But what I do have is a vast amount of experience implementing and integrating all kinds of networking technologies together.
 
NoOther said:
I believe many times the problems are that too many people specialize in just a few technologies and don't branch out enough. Most of the higher paying positions I see today require a broad range of technologies and experience. It's not just a MS SA anymore, now you need VMware, Cisco, and Netapps or similar. Kids today are coming out of college with a far wider breadth of knowledge and companies are much more willing to hire cheaper talent with a possibly higher technical ceiling. The jobs that are going to consistently pay well for experience are the kind of jobs that you can't just hire college kids to do. Things that require a lot of prior knowledge of policies, implementation, integration, enterprise and federation level experience, etc.



Funny, since I am in network engineering and have no lack of high paid offers. Being Cisco Certified doesn't really matter much. I don't even have a single Cisco, Juniper, Palo Alto, or similar certification. But what I do have is a vast amount of experience implementing and integrating all kinds of networking technologies together.
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Don't count your eggs before they hatch. As we move to smarter systems your job security will shrink faster and faster and of course you will never remember this conversation. I was making a killing and in all honesty I just hit burn out. Tired of working with computers. It was fun for years but I hit a wall of disinterest after a while. I just want to pay others to do it for me one day. I enjoy networking still and have a full rack of high end Cisco equipment at home but I rarely dig through IOS/Nexus any more these days. I think what killed it for me more than anything was working contracts for the Federal Govt. (US) and dealing with the non stop know it all's, endless meetings, phone conferences, and everything telling me how to do the very thing they couldn't do themselves because they hired us to do it. Just said enough. And I have a 2 year old boy and colocation facilities just took all my life away from being with him.

Thus I am enjoying the back to college life a little and working on stuff such as organic chem and bio chem and immunology etc... preparing to take an MCAT and put my self out there in hopes to get picked up. If not I am just gonna get my grad degree and teach college classes somewhere eventually.
 
tangoseal said:
Don't count your eggs before they hatch. As we move to smarter systems your job security will shrink faster and faster and of course you will never remember this conversation. I was making a killing and in all honesty I just hit burn out. Tired of working with computers. It was fun for years but I hit a wall of disinterest after a while. I just want to pay others to do it for me one day. I enjoy networking still and have a full rack of high end Cisco equipment at home but I rarely dig through IOS/Nexus any more these days. I think what killed it for me more than anything was working contracts for the Federal Govt. (US) and dealing with the non stop know it all's, endless meetings, phone conferences, and everything telling me how to do the very thing they couldn't do themselves because they hired us to do it. Just said enough. And I have a 2 year old boy and colocation facilities just took all my life away from being with him.

Thus I am enjoying the back to college life a little and working on stuff such as organic chem and bio chem and immunology etc... preparing to take an MCAT and put my self out there in hopes to get picked up. If not I am just gonna get my grad degree and teach college classes somewhere eventually.
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Every.... single.... day.... im getting closer to this. I like working with computers, I HATE working with people. I have no tolerance for stupidity anymore, and that's what 90% of my requests boil down to. Each day I grow to hate my job more and more, but have no motivation to look elsewhere because it's still IT..... I'm seriously thinking of taking a few months off work to brush up on coding and become a developer. My Comp Sci degree covers that anyway. I do all the IT at a software dev company, and those fuckers get paid 2-3 times what I do and have so much less stress and responsibilities its ridiculous....

My serious honest advice to anyone considering going into IT is....... DON'T!!!

For a good laugh about what true IT work is like, look up "The website is down" on youtube. Seriously one of the best/funniest examples I have seen.
 
tangoseal said:
Don't count your eggs before they hatch. As we move to smarter systems your job security will shrink faster and faster and of course you will never remember this conversation. I was making a killing and in all honesty I just hit burn out. Tired of working with computers. It was fun for years but I hit a wall of disinterest after a while. I just want to pay others to do it for me one day. I enjoy networking still and have a full rack of high end Cisco equipment at home but I rarely dig through IOS/Nexus any more these days. I think what killed it for me more than anything was working contracts for the Federal Govt. (US) and dealing with the non stop know it all's, endless meetings, phone conferences, and everything telling me how to do the very thing they couldn't do themselves because they hired us to do it. Just said enough. And I have a 2 year old boy and colocation facilities just took all my life away from being with him.
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I never count my chickens, it would take too long. I can understand burn out, especially with government contracts which is what I work on, I feel that too, but it has nothing to do with my ceiling, which was what your post was about. My ceiling is only determined by what I am and am not willing to do. And so far I have pretty much been able to dictate what I will and will not do. But my skillset is extremely wide for the 'roles' that I am assigned. In reality those roles only apply to my seniority, not the jobs that I do. For instance, right now I am labeled a 'network engineer', but what I really do is systems/network/infrastructure/security engineering. I get to play with a lot stuff from small custom built deployments on Rasberry Pis to large scale enterprise cloud solutions. Right now we are putting together our second order in 4 months for yet another high end HPC cluster. Also we have several GPU computing systems so I get to play with a lot of Tesla and Titan cards at work as well. For those reasons I put up with the other crap we have to deal with as contractors.

As for the IT vs development, I started working in IT even though I was studying CompSci. I finished my degree as IT. But for the last 6 years or so, I have been working in R&D programs and right now I make more than any of the developers on my team. It is one thing to know how to program something, it is quite another to know how to make everything work together and use the right resources.

tangoseal said:
Thus I am enjoying the back to college life a little and working on stuff such as organic chem and bio chem and immunology etc... preparing to take an MCAT and put my self out there in hopes to get picked up. If not I am just gonna get my grad degree and teach college classes somewhere eventually.
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I am all for going back to school and doing what you love. IT isn't my first love, I originally wanted to be a doctor, but I have also seen the lunacy that is involved in that and honestly the IT life is far less stressful, even with government contracting. I do plan to go back to school before my retirement and get a masters or PhD in psychology. I would like to either do research or counseling once I retire from IT.
 
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Sounds like you need a challenge. How about try going to Singapore on the other side of the world and trying to get a job there or in some other foreign country? Go on an adventure!
 
Cerulean said:
Sounds like you need a challenge. How about try going to Singapore on the other side of the world and trying to get a job there or in some other foreign country? Go on an adventure!
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How did that work out for you?
 
tangoseal said:
I think what killed it for me more than anything was working contracts for the Federal Govt. (US) and dealing with the non stop know it all's, endless meetings, phone conferences, and everything telling me how to do the very thing they couldn't do themselves because they hired us to do it.
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Those shenanigans killed it for me as well, so I rage quit the corporate America job and started my own company. Now I only accept work that I'll actually enjoy, and if it turns into endless conference calls I'll bill accordingly for it, have a minion cover the repetitive stuff or drop the client in favor of something more fun. It was not fun being on a weekly "status" call about why the backup jobs haven't been running for years...
 
If you want to get in the 100k range you pretty much have to go into management. Maybe look at IT management jobs, then try to move to CIO from there. That will probably require some management related education. Maybe certs like Six Sigma, etc.
 
Red Squirrel said:
If you want to get in the 100k range you pretty much have to go into management. Maybe look at IT management jobs, then try to move to CIO from there. That will probably require some management related education. Maybe certs like Six Sigma, etc.
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Then you get to do all the 'fun' management stuff like constant meetings, documentation/reports etc.... You move away from all the hands on stuff that makes the job tolerable. If I was planning on being a manager, it would absolutely not be for an IT department...
 
Red Squirrel said:
If you want to get in the 100k range you pretty much have to go into management. Maybe look at IT management jobs, then try to move to CIO from there. That will probably require some management related education. Maybe certs like Six Sigma, etc.
Click to expand...

I don't know why people keep saying stuff like this, perhaps it is dependent on the area you work in. I have been over 100k mark for some time now and I am not in any kind of management role. I strictly do R&D/Integration engineering work. I have been offered similar salaries for jobs in quite a few arenas: health, corporate, small-medium size business, etc. The main factor is generally the breadth and depth of your knowledge, not being specialized in just a few areas. I can't stress enough how specializing in just a few areas will greatly stunt your potential growth. I shared this information with a number of people in my area and field and everyone that took a few years to branch out and learn a few new technologies rather than just trying to chase the next raise are all making far more money now. Those that decided just to keep going and specializing even further in their few areas of expertise are all stuck making the max they can and other companies won't even hire them now for the money they currently make.

Also helps to have a background in R&D and integration. If you can show a company you have experience researching and testing new technologies, especially those that may be outside your general field, it shows them you can truly handle change and the evolution of technology. That is really what a company wants to see, someone who is versatile and will be able to come up with solutions or integration techniques for whatever new technology they decide to pursue. They can hire any old college grad or intern now to do most of the general work that needs to be done, but what they can't do is find quality professionals who have proven proficiency in a number of fields and can easily put the pieces together for them.
 
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Biznatch said:
Then you get to do all the 'fun' management stuff like constant meetings, documentation/reports etc.... You move away from all the hands on stuff that makes the job tolerable. If I was planning on being a manager, it would absolutely not be for an IT department...
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Yeah not saying it would be fun. Personally I rather make a bit less and keep doing hands on stuff, and overall have a less stressful job. But I have never seen a non management job make 100k in tech. Especially considering companies outsource tech jobs to India at the drop of a hat. I imagine there is the odd ball super specialized engineering type jobs but those tend to be rare.
 
Red Squirrel said:
Yeah not saying it would be fun. Personally I rather make a bit less and keep doing hands on stuff, and overall have a less stressful job. But I have never seen a non management job make 100k in tech. Especially considering companies outsource tech jobs to India at the drop of a hat. I imagine there is the odd ball super specialized engineering type jobs but those tend to be rare.
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Where I am many non-management IT jobs, pay over 100k but most come with baggage. I've been targeting a "sweet spot" sort of which will pay me an acceptable rate but with out the baggage but it's difficult because I have so experience, I often get asked why do you want to work here when you could work for x company and so on.
 
Biznatch said:
Then you get to do all the 'fun' management stuff like constant meetings, documentation/reports etc.... You move away from all the hands on stuff that makes the job tolerable. If I was planning on being a manager, it would absolutely not be for an IT department...
Click to expand...

Yes absolutely correct on this. I could add other 'fun' duties to that but I'll let it be.
 
NoOther said:
I don't know why people keep saying stuff like this, perhaps it is dependent on the area you work in. I have been over 100k mark for some time now and I am not in any kind of management role. I strictly do R&D/Integration engineering work. I have been offered similar salaries for jobs in quite a few arenas: health, corporate, small-medium size business, etc. The main factor is generally the breadth and depth of your knowledge, not being specialized in just a few areas. I can't stress enough how specializing in just a few areas will greatly stunt your potential growth. I shared this information with a number of people in my area and field and everyone that took a few years to branch out and learn a few new technologies rather than just trying to chase the next raise are all making far more money now. Those that decided just to keep going and specializing even further in their few areas of expertise are all stuck making the max they can and other companies won't even hire them now for the money they currently make.

Also helps to have a background in R&D and integration. If you can show a company you have experience researching and testing new technologies, especially those that may be outside your general field, it shows them you can truly handle change and the evolution of technology. That is really what a company wants to see, someone who is versatile and will be able to come up with solutions or integration techniques for whatever new technology they decide to pursue. They can hire any old college grad or intern now to do most of the general work that needs to be done, but what they can't do is find quality professionals who have proven proficiency in a number of fields and can easily put the pieces together for them.
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This and this again. Most times they will hire the lead from within, because they have a knowledge of the environment, and as a promotion path to keep good techs/engineers. I feel that specializing is a dead end (except maybe security, but that's a whole 'nother thing), being able to fit new 'things' into the existing environment and getting them to work correctly is the key for employers with any sizeable/complex network (and the most fun, quite frankly, I have millions of dollars worth of toys to play with), and that requires breadth, not depth. Maybe when just starting out to get your foot into the door you might need to certify, but I don't believe in certs, either, gave up on those 20 years ago.

It may be you do have "too much" experience to get in the door somewhere, you will have to decide on your own where the trade-off is. Speaking from harsh experience myself, after being without a job (except the odd contract that barely kept the lights on) for over 5 years, "settling" for a little lower can look very good, and you can also build up your cred within the organization to get that tech lead if you show your employer what you can do.
 
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