Toms Hardware $300 projector

thats very nice, does the wide screen lead to complex lens arrays?

i hate to spend more money on this little dream of mine for the projector, i've been spending too much lately. maybe this summer i'll purchase those plans and build one. i need to get some money back in my bank account first.
 
CzarDestructo said:
the Mag 14" LCD, they only have two variants, one with speakers and one without.extremely easy strip, your welcome to post that anywhere you care :)

they are hard to get now though, don't make them anymore. i got mine off e-bay brand new for $140.

i originally got a KDS 15" LCD(i forget the model,no longer have it), wasn't strippable. wasted some money on that goof, then it sat for awhile until i dropped it when moving stuff around. good bye money.
Click to expand...
Ahh, was aware of that one. There are actually several flavors of that monitor formerly available @ bestBuy. Some of them had severe FFC issues and its a gamble purchasing one. You got lucky by getting the one w/no FFC issues. I hear 14" mag owners were "extremely" satisfied with their PJ results.

CzarDestructo said:
does the wide screen lead to complex lens arrays?.
Click to expand...
not at all, proceed as normal.
 
Glad SJetski71 is in here to give you guys a realistic view of the DIY projector. Toms does a really poor job in their article by 1) not giving credit where its due and 2) besides the typical quality problems of an overhead projector, even high end 7000 lumen ones aren't enough to give enough brightness since lcd's only allow polarized light through the panel - you lose 90%+ of the light from an overhead once it hits the lcd. Even in my DIY projector from awhile ago, a 250w HQI MH (~20,000 lumens) isn't quite as bright as I want, with the decent reflector and condensor lens used. The biggest tips I can give are:

- use a 250 or higher wattage metal halide bulb (long life - cheap, higher efficiency than other bulb types, good color temperature)
- use a UV stop or the UV light will make your panel's color fade quickly - permanently
- use an IR filter to prevent as much heat as possible from reaching the panel
- get a decent quality and large (allows more light to hit the screen) triplet
- get a lcd panel that can be stripped without FFC extensions
- get a lcd panel that has a contrast ratio of 400:1 or higher

There's many sources for more information, but I'd recommend http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=12 over the rest (but takes a lot more reading than say subscribing to lumenlab). Building your own enclosure for a projector "can" yield better results than an overhead setup

nemo.jpg
 
Have you looked at some of 3M's window films? They claim to be UV and IR reflective, and you can get them w/ up to 70% transmission rates for visible light.
 
kleptophobiac said:
Have you looked at some of 3M's window films? They claim to be UV and IR reflective, and you can get them w/ up to 70% transmission rates for visible light.
Click to expand...
I'm going to need an IR filter soon though i'm using lexan xl10 as a heat & UV barrier for now. Is 70% transmission good enough considering tempered glass and lexan boast over 90%? I realize lexan doesn't have IR protection but the thought of losing over 20% of my light, hmm
 
SJetski71 said:
By "inaccuracies" i should have been more specific. The problem is i can't remember exact details but there's an ongoing thread about tom's article in the Lumenlab protected forums. In that thread diy'ers had exposed a bunch flaws, inacurracies and assumptions in tom's approach. Basically the way to sum it up is: Tom is noob at DIY projection but he's posing as some sort of expert. You'd better serve yourself by picking a proven design at www.lumenlab.com or www.diyaudio.com and proceeding from there ;). I recommend Lumenlab so strongly because they have a superior design + antiquated ideas seem to never die at diyaudio.com and it can lead to much confusion and questionable results imho.
Click to expand...

Haha, that sounds a lot like ProCooling everytime a watercooling review/article is released.
 
SGSeeker said:
- use a UV stop or the UV light will make your panel's color fade quickly - permanently
- use an IR filter to prevent as much heat as possible from reaching the panel
- get a lcd panel that can be stripped without FFC extensions
Click to expand...

I think I'm going to follow Tom's simple guide for a first attempt but I am concerned about these 3 issues you brought up. First, how bad is the fading and what can I do to prevent it? Please try to keep the cost to the bare minimum. Secondly, is the IR filter really nescessary? I plan on having 2x80 mm fans wired at 12v constantly blowing cool air between the panel and projector. Third, what are these FCC extensions you mentioned. Which panels that I can get a hold of using ebay strip easily?

I'm probally getting a free overhead, so I'm definetly going with the overhead idea. Thanks for the input. :)
 
siegecraft4 said:
Which panels that I can get a hold of using ebay strip easily?
Click to expand...

Edit: Link deleted.

Strippable monitor lists can be found at most diy forums.

PM me if you need a copy of my lcd compatibility list.
 
siegecraft4 said:
I think I'm going to follow Tom's simple guide for a first attempt but I am concerned about these 3 issues you brought up. First, how bad is the fading and what can I do to prevent it? Please try to keep the cost to the bare minimum. Secondly, is the IR filter really nescessary? I plan on having 2x80 mm fans wired at 12v constantly blowing cool air between the panel and projector. Third, what are these FCC extensions you mentioned. Which panels that I can get a hold of using ebay strip easily?

I'm probally getting a free overhead, so I'm definetly going with the overhead idea. Thanks for the input. :)
Click to expand...

I've heard rumors that the fading can begin to be noticeable within a couple months but haven't seen it myself. Eventually, it'd fade to where the colors are very dull - almost hard to tell one apart from another. In my opinion, it'd take a long time to get there but I'd rather not take the chance. Halogen bulbs tend to not need the protection nearly as much as metal halide setups. Its possible to protect from UV damage by using uv blocking films (3m), buying "low e" glass, getting uv blocking lexan from homedepot/lowes (not all carry it), or starting with a bulb that has a uv block built in. With IR light, its usually not needed (won't be at all in an overhead setup), but it helps you control the heat reaching the panel. The easiest way is again the same as for UV or using a cold mirror in your setup which reflects visible light but allows IR to pass through it.

FFC is a flat flex cable, think of an IDE cable. If a lcd has the cable(s) on only one edge of the panel, you can just fold the controller at a 90 degree angle and be done with it. Some have cables on 2 or 3 sides which screw up removing the controller from behind the display. In this case, you need to swap at least one cable with a longer one. A lot of lcd's use 0.5mm pitch ffc's meaning that each wire in the cable is half a millimeter wide (including the plastic surrounding it) - makes for an interesting cable swap. A 40 wire cable would be 20mm wide. They generally don't have connectors so its not unplug/plug in. Basically, you just want to start with a panel with cables mounted on one edge and only one edge.
 
Thanks to both SGSeeker and SJetski71. You guys have really been shedding some light on the subject.
 
I was not even aware of the UV issue till I read this thread, certainly don't want to cook my LCD. Suggestions on UV block lexan or low E glass? Which to get and is there a part number? Home depot/lowes the easiest probably but what should I get? I did check out those 3M film links, only sold in a huge expensive roll though.

Thank you for the list SJetski71. I am going to try out a Samsung 152T, has both DVI and VGA and it's good to see it on your list. Hopefully I can work around the cable extension issue.

I am going to try the easy approach and if I like the results I might build something much more serious in the future. I picked up a 3M 9800 projector. It has a triplet lense group and puts out 6000 lums so it should be a good example of what the top of the line overhead can produce, hopefully.

This will be eventually/hopefully replacing a Toshiba RPTV 52H81 that I usually watch in the dark or a pretty dimly lit room. This is a project I can sink my teeth into!
 
MaxBurn said:
I was not even aware of the UV issue till I read this thread, certainly don't want to cook my LCD. Suggestions on UV block lexan or low E glass? Which to get and is there a part number? Home depot/lowes the easiest probably but what should I get? I did check out those 3M film links, only sold in a huge expensive roll though.
Click to expand...

SJetski71 said:
Lexan UV "glass" 2~6 panels~$15: Amount of panels used depends on design or preference. Home depot/Lowes item: Lexan XL10 barcode: 7 26941 13201 2 (ubercheap)
Click to expand...

Not all carry it so YMMV, but a majority of people claim they can find the stuff (here home depot has no lexan, only no-name acrylic and lowes doesn't have any lexan with UV protection). About 2-6 panels...you should only need one since each layer will block some visible light also, but 2 wouldn't be bad either. I don't remember how much UV they claim to block. Low-E glass can be found at local glass/window shops and generally blocks more UV while allowing more visible light to shine through.

Another image of pvr software - SageTV. Its not quite as bright as in person but it'll have to do - my camera's basically a point and shoot. Comparison of 25" tv next to it. Whites are a little better in person but not much - the brighter the bulb you use, the better the whites will appear and of course, the more light can be in the room without making the image vanish.
LINK
 
SGSeeker said:
you should only need one since each layer will block some visible light also, but 2 wouldn't be bad either.
Click to expand...
I should have been more specific as to why i recommended 2-6 cut sheets of lexan. I meant to say in a "lumenlab style" design extra sheets can help. The extra sheets are good to tightly "sandwich" the fresnel closest to the bulb. The fresnels can begin to bow after awhile from the bulb's heat and "sandwiching" them keeps them nice and flat. But once again thats in a lumenlab style box design, i'm not as familiar with the complexities of other designs ;)


Info i've stumbled upon in several places: Light transmission of lexan XL10 and decent tempered glass is reported to be over 90% though tempered glass is supposedly a bit better than XL10 . The benefit of lexan XL10 is mostly it's availability and its low price (a few dollars less but hey). A LL member had figured out that each sheet of lexan reduces lumen output by approx 150-200 lumens per sheet. Many LL users report using up to 6 sheets of lexan and still having a decently bright and very viewable image. I plan on using 3-5 sheets depending...

BTW SGSeeker meant to tell ya, those are some nice results you have. I get a feeling that it looks that much better in person. I can kinda tell because the room surrounding the PJ image is NOT sharply in focus, meaning your PJ image probably isn't 100% sharply focused in that pic either...
 
eh, I wouldn't use lexan to protect the fresnels from heat, but thats just me (would prefer normal glass near the bulb, which is what I currently use and its pocket change). Totally forgot about this issue although its important even in overhead projectors (had a fresnel warp myself before - still using it in fact :p ). I sure hope that lumen loss is before the lcd ;) but yeah, any way you have it setup, it'll be the same loss overall... I'd keep all you can behind the lcd though to prevent image artifacts from the glass/plastics

You're right about the 90%+ figure, and I bet the manufacturers that claim 99% are also only around 95. I'm down to 1 piece of glass in my setup right now though...been lazy to put it all back. Its in a position that forces the air to come in between it and the fresnel, flow to the opposite end, and down over the bulb, out the side. Works well :D
 
Update:

The Ultimate Light Kit is back in stock @ LL...but not for long as these are high-end, heavily sought after items (& low priced). If anybody was planning to build soon you better get yer Light kit now :D

If anyone needed the Pro Lens kit keep your eyes peeled daily since the propietor currently has them in stock but is working out some exhanges w/prior customers. He will update the pro lens web page to allow orders once the logistics mentioned above are figured out. The pro lense kit is for those looking to use 17"-19" lcd's w/their 1280x1024 HD resolutions (and a longer throw distance). Those who are looking to use a 15" lcd would use the cheaper standard lense kit.

For the curious: from what i understand, upscaling/upconverting a DVD via htpc software would allow a 15" lcd to display 16x9 @ 1024 x 576P, a "semi HD" rez which can be further cleaned up and improved with ffdshow. good stuff ey?
 
SJetski71 said:
.....

For the curious: from what i understand, upscaling/upconverting a DVD via htpc software would allow a 15" lcd to display 16x9 @ 1024 x 576P, a "semi HD" rez which can be further cleaned up and improved with ffdshow. good stuff ey?
Click to expand...

that is ED

if the LCD screen can handle 1280x1024. You can do 1280x720p @ 16x9 AR. TRUE HD :)
 
figgie said:
that is ED

if the LCD screen can handle 1280x1024. You can do 1280x720p @ 16x9 AR. TRUE HD :)
Click to expand...
lol, ya i knew the part about 1280x1024~1280x720P, but don't mind my other terminology ;) ("semi HD" lol)

Edit:
Talk about HD, i don't know if anybody noticed my link posted last month but Staples has a 15.4" lcd @ 1280x800 native for $200ish w/coupon in-store. Link for the curious: http://www.staples.com/Catalog/Browse/Sku.asp?PageType=1&Sku=583758 (more expensive if bought online btw).
 
i've seen results after results and that guy has the some the best posted pics i've ever seen.

So much contrast and color vividness, that crispy look we all want ::drool::
 
I've been reading a lot about these...and I don't notice too many people using Halogen lights? My dad has these big ol Holgen work lights, like 500+watts and just bright as day. I was going throw one of those in a projector...are there any disadvantages using hologens? (as opposed to the metal hilade? (spelling is horrible, I forgot what's it called)
 
welcome to like 5 years ago, this was really popular a while ago when companies were getting rid of overhead projector panels by the boat load

i built one but its really too big and clumsy to be really useful... just my opinion

 
FLECOM said:
welcome to like 5 years ago, this was really popular a while ago when companies were getting rid of overhead projector panels by the boat load

i built one but its really too big and clumsy to be really useful... just my opinion

Click to expand...
Don't believe you've read the last 2 pages ;) (also discussing other types, gotta love the latecomers to a party :p)



GDut0n said:
I've been reading a lot about these...and I don't notice too many people using Halogen lights? My dad has these big ol Holgen work lights, like 500+watts and just bright as day. I was going throw one of those in a projector...are there any disadvantages using hologens? (as opposed to the metal hilade? (spelling is horrible, I forgot what's it called)
Click to expand...
wrong color temp, low bulb hours too i believe. Its been done but the results look funny.
 
SJetski71 said:
Don't believe you've read the last 2 pages ;) (also discussing other types, gotta love the latecomers to a party :p)
Click to expand...

well, actually, i have read many threads and project logs, including that one, and made my own setups, the laps behind the 5.4" lcd and the old projection screen lens, i also did the 14" lcd / ohp setup but my panel had the pcb behind the lcd, do you have any idea how hard it is to solder like over 100 tiny wires onto the pads where the flex cables were? it did work amazingly, but it was like 2 days of soldering...

and did you see most of those setups? the one you linked especailly was fucking huge!!!

i will take my projector setup, thanks

E5DD0629_filtered.jpg


E5DD0632_filtered.jpg


E5DD0640_filtered.jpg


E5DD0644_filtered.jpg
 
also not that they are VERY lucky that their panel did not have the pcb behind the backlight, a LOT of panels have the pcb behind the backlight with those ribbon connectors so you cant use them for a projector since you cannot relocate the pcb without getting some sort of flat cable extensions which are damn near impossible to find
 
Hey SJetski,

are there ways of making a smaller DIY projector? (like maybe 1.5'Dx1'Hx1'W)

All I want it for is 640x480 res. and an image size of about 50-60" diagonally

I only have about 12' (width of room) to work with...


Could you point me in the right direction?



Thanks.
 
an option, but with complete crap resolution is getting a 1.6" lcd tv and dropping the LCD into a slide projector, just cool it really well and it will be nowhere near 640x480


really the only good solution is the large panel solution, 14" +

if you can really live with 640 then perhaps a 12" panel, but 640x480 @ 60" is pretty crappy
 
Yea well the size of the box can be a big drawback, my project involves one of these larger boxes but it doesn't bother me personally (going to partially insert it into a drop ceiling). I consider it a nice project thats relatively inexpensive and gives good results. The lenses offered at a couple of places are special order, and are much higher quality than most ohp lenses. Most ohp builders that have migrated over to box designs seem to agree that a box design produces better results. Nowadays diy forums have lists of compatible monitors to help newcomers avoid FFC issues ;).

Bobsaget, you can make a smaller PJ but i recommend heading over to diyaudio to research it. Diyaudio has a lot of smaller designs you can build. You would probably want to use a 7" or 8" 800x600 lcd from ebay. Research beforehand to make sure you buy the right model (or post your findings here).
 
FLECOM said:
FFC issues?
Click to expand...
I think it stands for "flat folding cables", the sensitive ones that you had mentioned before i believe. Flecom, i meant to ask before, but is that some serious screen-door effect i see in your pics or is it something else? :confused:

btw, in case anyone missed the link tucked away on the other page, i wanted everyone to check out this guys 17" sxga results: http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=6&t=5230&st=0#entry59919
 
no screen door, i just didnt have my tripod so i had to put my camera on my knee, so its looking from under the screen at a pretty sharp angle...

yes, i know those flat cables all too well... here is an example of the one i did for my projector and had to deal with them...

dont try this at home lol
solderingdoom.JPG

solderingdoom2.JPG


also i agree that guys results are absolutely incredible... but for a small room like mine, a giant projector like that renders itself impractical...
 
well i'll be damned, i would never have taken up the project if i had to deal with all that micro soldering. I would have sat comfy with my LP335 and called it the day.

thank goodness for monitor compatibility lists
 
ya lucky you :p

there were no such lists back then
 
wow FLECOM. That's [H]ardcore, you could attach that photo to your resume. ;-)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top