Tom Cruise Thinks You Should Turn Off Motion Interpolation

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by AlphaAtlas, Dec 6, 2018.

  1. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Just watched the UHD release on my OLED- and I keep the setting on, but at a lower level.

    I get that some people don't like the effect at its worst, but at lower settings it adds clarity that I'd rather have.
     
  2. Wrecked Em

    Wrecked Em [H]ardness Supreme

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    Every time I go to my parents house, I change the SD channel they're watching in stretched mode to HD equivalent they're subscribed to. They still ask why I changed the channel and seem surprised that they have 2 of the same channels.
     
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  3. nutzo

    nutzo [H]ardness Supreme

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    One of the worse problems with getting older. I can't play FPS games for very long any more. :(:(:(
     
  4. BlueFireIce

    BlueFireIce [H]ardness Supreme

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    I do this with my parents as well, and a number of younger people also, where even HD channels they have the TV set to some zoom mode that cuts off part of the image. I had one friend I went to and saw the game on and was like "why is the aspect ratio all off?", they have no idea what I was talking about but everyone had oval heads it was so bad, this is from the same guy who needed the newest 75" 4k TV because 1080 wasn't good, and is already talking about how much better 8k TVs will be.....It's like, dude, you couldn't even tell the image was totally distorted! But hey, thats marketing doing it's job.
     
  5. Todd Walter

    Todd Walter Gawd

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    Well, of course you can, one is in colour!;)
     
  6. purple_monster

    purple_monster Limp Gawd

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    for me his best was ferris bullers day off
     
  7. Master_shake_

    Master_shake_ [H]ardForum Junkie

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    are we talkin bout soap opera effect here?

    from my cold dead hands Tom.
     
  8. Majinhoju

    Majinhoju [H]ard|Gawd

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    If I'm watching sports, sure, I'll keep it on. I disable it for everything else. I want to watch my shows and movies at their source framerate.
     
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  9. trparky

    trparky Gawd

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    I normally do not agree with Tom Cruise on anything (personally I think he's the biggest asshole in Hollywood) but I do agree with him on this one. The Motion Interpolation that most TVs have these days gives me a damn headache.
     
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  10. mouacyk

    mouacyk n00b

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    Just 2 mentions in this whole thread, despite its utter relevance. I also go out of my way to enable it in Linux, where somehow the free version allows customisable rates but the free windows version is locked to refresh rate.

    Doubling fps in 24 and 30 fps trailers helps alot to reduce perceptible stutter, especially when one is used to 120hz+ motion.
     
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  11. MartinX

    MartinX One Hour Martinizing While You Wait

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    Tom Cruise is 56

    He clearly has magic and should be obeyed
     
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  12. Bowman15

    Bowman15 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Tom Cruise is not my supervisor...
     
  13. M76

    M76 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    You'd expect them to at least up to speed about what interpolation actually is. It doesn't remove motion blur. If it did I'd be on the moon. Motion blur is the enemy.

    I'm with them but not for the reasons they think. Adding interpolation to a movie already recorded with extremely long shutter is pointless. It just makes things worse. The problem with 24 fps film is that there is too long a time between frames, and for the motion to look smooth, they need to use low shutter speed. But this causes motion blur, especially during fast action and fast camera movement. Adding motion interpolation to that just inserts another blurry frame between two already blurry frames. So it is pointless and will make things look weird. Especially since the algorithms work best with crisp picture where edges are clearly visible.

    Film is not sacred, 24 fps is not sacred, or a sweet spot, you just got used to it, and you loath change.

    P.S: did they just cut Tom off in the middle of a sentence?
     
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  14. CAD4466HK

    CAD4466HK [H]ard|Gawd

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    I think you need to go back and rewatch that movie.
     
  15. Youn

    Youn [H]ardness Supreme

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    he was way better in back to the future
     
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  16. Zepher

    Zepher [H]ipster Replacement

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    I prefer the Motion smoothing turned off. Movies don't look like movies with it on.
     
  17. PhaseNoise

    PhaseNoise [H]ard|Gawd

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    He was great there, but I loved his performance in "The Hobbit: Three Hours of Packing a Knapsack with Very Important Belongings for a Grand Adventure".
     
  18. Chris_B

    Chris_B [H]ardness Supreme

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    Xenu\Xemu has decreed it!
     
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  19. cjcox

    cjcox [H]ard|Gawd

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    Not to be short, but I agree with Tom more than a little bit.
     
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  20. Nookie420

    Nookie420 Limp Gawd

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    when I bought my first 4k tv it had motion interpolation on by default. I almost returned the TV because video on it was so horrible to watch.
    Watching movies on plex, youtube, netflix, all looked jumpy and laggy. Luckily for Samsung, I googled it, and turned off the setting for it. Had to do the same thing for my dad.
     
  21. Tak Ne

    Tak Ne [H]ard|Gawd

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    Sorry Tom but thats not why your films suck.
     
  22. ChoGGi

    ChoGGi [H]ard|Gawd

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    Of course Tom is against it, motion smoothing removes thetans.
     
  23. Etherton

    Etherton Will Bang for Poof

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    32 posts in. You guys are slipping.

    I actually agree with him on this though, for the most part.
     
  24. kamxam

    kamxam [H]ard|Gawd

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    Better not say anything bad about Tom! He'll report you to his Mummy! (Drum-Roll Please) :eggface:
     
  25. piscian18

    piscian18 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Disable it on every TV I can get my hands on. Same as others. It mucks up the background and foreground making everything look washed out like an old British soap.
     
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  26. Makaveli@BETA

    Makaveli@BETA 2[H]4U

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    This stuff bugs me most on LCD tv's I hate watching sports on them after watching it on my Plasma.

    The motion during sports games always looks way off.

    And most of my friends don't notice until they come over to my place then watch NFL/NHL/NBA whatever.
     
  27. Viper16

    Viper16 [H]ard|Gawd

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    The problem is most UHD 4K tv's that are cheap are 60hz native...couple that with a 24fps movie, and the soap opera effect is worse. I have a 120hz tv and can adjust my effects to be less soap opera and an in between setting.
     
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  28. Nenu

    Nenu [H]ardened

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    I dont like interpolation done badly or applied too strong.
    Some implementations are pretty good though.

    The first time I saw it done well was SVP (Smooth Video Project).
    It needs max smoothness and strongest artifact masking to get the best from it, but artifact maxing on highest reduces how effective the smoothing is (you notice frame changes more).
    So I have been varying between max smoothness and one step down on artifact which gives a little bit of trail on moving objects, or losing the slight artefacts and getting a very slightly stuttery video (nothing like the original though).
    It can look a bit fake with some video (perhaps already over processed video) but more often than not its superb.
    But I've stopped using it now ...

    My latest TV is a Samsung Q9 and the interpolation is fantastic when set up well.
    Without using Game mode I set Auto Motion Plus to Blur Reduction 10, Judder reduction 6.
    The only downside is the video player or windows refresh rate need setting to 24Hz mode for 24p video playback or there is a judder around every 8 seconds.
    Judder reduction set higher than 6 starts to introduce the soap opera effect, 7 is ok still.
    This .. is .. an .. awesome .. TV !
    The image quality is incredible but be sure to update to the latest firmware, I almost sent mine back before that due to serious artefacting.

    The reason I dont use game mode is because I game at 1440p 120Hz, the lag is so low it doesnt need the inconvenience of using the separate game mode config in a more awkward place ;)
    This has made it so easy to use, I dont need to adjust anything, ever.
    It even does HDR in RGB full. no need to change to ycbcr 4:2:2 or 4:2:0.

    Oh yeah, forgot to mention:
    It plays most video via its USB port as well, avoiding setting up the player for 24p.
    H265 no problem and it can feed multi channel back to your amp over HDMI (if it supports that).
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018
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  29. Bobert

    Bobert Limp Gawd

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    I've left motion smoothing on for the past 6 years.

    a31.png
     
  30. PimpUigi

    PimpUigi Limp Gawd

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    Facedesks. No. Bad. Does anyone have a similar video from Anime directors asking people to stop using SVP on anime? Because I know there was at least some forum comments from an anime director floating around complaining about it...people seriously turn on frame interpolation for anime when anime creators already created it to go at the speed they intended and wanted.
    All SVP does to film and anime is introduce a heavy soap opera effect. People who desire this need to wake up, I get the idea of being addicted to things.
    My Strange Addiction: Motion Interpolation

    It doesn't make the image look sharper it makes the motion flow with less hitches. It actually makes the image look softer. Watch a movie's credits with interpolation off, then with it set to 72hz (or whatever) and you'll notice interpolation is blurrier.

    OK, yes, this is a good post. Motion smoothing isn't about making the image sharper, or creating the soap opera effect; the people developing this technology would rather it not have the soap opera effect.
    Good video interpolation is purely about removing motion judder that comes from playing a 24fps film on a 60hz TV. The typical adjustments your TV makes to display the 24fps video at 60hz creates hitches when the camera pans, the basis of good video interpolation is to remove those hitches. Period. This is why bluray players have 24p modes. But when you play your video at 24p and have no interpolation, when the video pans most of the smoothness is gone compared to 60hz with interpolation disabled.

    72fps interpolation looks like film at the movie theaters. Pioneer Plasma TV's (the Kuro series of TV) have this feature in Film Mode: Advanced. It takes 23p/24p signals from your PC or Bluray player, and it displays them at 72hz with 72fps video interpolation to remove the motion judder. This is 3:3 cadence, instead of 3:2 pulldown like SVP does, no artifacts or soap opera effect.

    When watching video/film recorded at 60fps you always need motion interpolation disabled because it just messes it up. Otherwise 72fps is the sweet spot motion interpolation you should be aiming for.
    Now I haven't had extensive testing with 120hz, 144hz, 240hz interpolation. But the basic formula is to go with the highest cadence that still leaves motion looking natural (no soap opera effect), gives no ghosting, but removes motion judder. Maybe one day I'll get to spend a few hours with each other of those modes, but I am fortunate to have 72fps / 3:3 cadence on my Plasma. That is good interpolation that leaves motion natural like 24fps, but also removes hitching / motion judder in the camera pans and retains the smoothness of the camera pan like in 60hz with interpolation disabled.
    Fuck that takes forever to explain.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018
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  31. shpankey

    shpankey Limp Gawd

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    I've always called it "the camcorder" effect. Anyone remembers old camcorders, the same thing as those.
     
  32. Dregan73

    Dregan73 Limp Gawd

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    i love high frame rates in games but i have alwwase disabled frame smoothing in tv sets the first time i ever saw it, its horrible, and it introduces artifacts in some movies
     
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  33. Saturn_V

    Saturn_V [H]ard|Gawd

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    Always a treat to see the film/video guys fite the videogame guys.
     
  34. Burticus

    Burticus 2[H]4U

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    I turn this off on every TV I come across... even at other people's houses. Most of them are too dumb to care it's on by default. Those that do notice, thank me later.
     
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  35. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I hated it the first time I saw it too; then I found a settings menu to adjust it.
     
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  36. velusip

    velusip [H]ard|Gawd

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    That's the beauty of analog interlacing. It's called "fields per second" in that context. It was further degraded (or enhanced, depending on how you look at it) by cheap recording heads that would retain signal over several fields; compounded with cheap (or failing) capacitors and phosphor in your CRT TV, you get infinite interpolation for free. ;)
     
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  37. Nenu

    Nenu [H]ardened

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    This is one of the problems with some modern TVs/monitors and how good the built in algorithms are.

    The faster the refresh rate the more likely you are to notice individual frames.
    This is because slower refresh screens hang onto the previous frame for longer and end up merging it with the next frame.
    Its another level of blurring, more than that applied to the video.
    By the same tune, faster refresh screens dont hold on to the previous image for very long and it can appear there is a gap between each frame.

    What matters now with modern screens is how good the interpolation routines are, because they will need to be used.
    The alternative is getting used to what looks to me like flickery video.
    And you can get used to it as long as you dont see anything smoother.
    The better solution is to find a display with decent interpolation and to set it correctly , imo ;)
     
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  38. jiminator

    jiminator Capt Obvious

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    Don't care for Cruise but I have to agree. My bother is one for top of the line TVs and every different one he had made pictures look like a soap opera show. I don't know if the technology has changed but it used to seriously suck
     
  39. primetime

    primetime [H]ardness Supreme

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    hell yes!
     
  40. PimpUigi

    PimpUigi Limp Gawd

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    SVP no. Very bad. x.X Read my previous post.
    ...well how about that. Our computers are nearly the same build except I have a GTX 1070.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018