GoldenTiger
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Quoted for truth.
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Today Is The Last Day For $40 Windows 8
- Thread starter HardOCP News
- Start date
Quoted for truth.
Red Falcon
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Oh I can only hope, it would be so nice to drop that proprietary and bloated DirectX garbage.
GoldenTiger
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Yeah, it's so bloated, everyone uses it! Clearly it's extremely poor---wait a second, OpenGL has been available on Windows too, why wouldn't they have used that if it was oh so superior, Mr. Linux?
Red Falcon
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Coming from the guy who doesn't know fuck about Linux, UNIX, or anything else regarding software development or OSes.
You would QFT a completely ignorant post from another oblivious non-Linux user.
I didn't realize discussion was considered "trolling".
GoldenTiger
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Oh, and still chuckling at claiming Unreal Engine/UDK and Unity are "non-programmer" game engines, Red Falcon. Keep on broadcasting your lack of knowledge and experience. 
Or anything, really.
MS only dominates two markets today: small server and desktop. Everywhere else they're not even a competitor. It's either Linux or UNIX that owns the rest.
As computing moves to more mobile markets and embedded devices, Microsoft is going to have a much rougher time of it. They can dominate the desktop for the next 10 years, it'll only result in Microsoft going bankrupt as the desktop market declines.
They've got a decent phone platform with WP8, though. It's quite nice. Unfortunately it suffers from typical MS sort of thinking and the end user gets fucked for it by a lack of applications and limited choices due to MS's OS prices. Their tablets haven't even gotten off the ground yet. ~700k WinRT tablets sold this entire time... and a huge return rate on top of that. OEMs are walking away from MS's tablet platforms due to pricing and poorly received sentiment from the public.
Red Falcon
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YOU clearly have no clue about how the market works.
DirectX is used in the majority of games because the majority of non-console games run on, you guessed it, Windows!
I remember you from years ago, you were a horrible troll that was as bad as the other user "PS3".
You, calling me a troll, now that is funny!
GoldenTiger
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Oh, I know plenty about them, enough to avoid use on the desktop
. Software dev is my career, but I really have nothing to prove to some random trolling circle-jerk guys on a web forum. People who know me professionally or in real life are plenty aware of my skill level .Trolling in a Windows 8 thread about how awesome a 1% market share OS is that no one really likes for the desktop, is pretty hilarious to try to call "discussion".
Red Falcon
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Oh, and still chuckling at claiming Unreal Engine/UDK and Unity are "non-programmer" game engines, Red Falcon. Keep on broadcasting your lack of knowledge and experience.
That wasn't me, Sherlock.
Get your posts straight FFS.
Keep broadcasting your lack of knowledge and experience.
Oh, I know plenty about them, enough to avoid use on the desktop
Trolling in a Windows 8 thread about how awesome a 1% market share OS is that no one really likes for the desktop, is pretty hilarious to try to call "discussion".
would that be like Cthulhu vs Megatron?
GoldenTiger
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I'm sorry, you FOSS guys all sound the same.
It's not bloated, it's actually quite nice. The issue with DirectX is more of a management one than a performance-related one.
DirectX is forever tied to Windows just like CUDA is forever tied to nVidia. In certain markets where there's limited choice, that approach works fine (desktop/consoles or HPC in the case of CUDA). In markets where there are many competitors and no dominant force, the approach falls flat on its face and developers don't give a shit. CUDA isn't used at all anymore in the desktop space or mobile while DirectX isn't used in mobile. A proprietary approach just doesn't work unless you're a monopoly. Microsoft is only a monopoly in desktops and traditional PC. That means that if a developer wants to target a large audience, they would actually be at a huge disadvantage using DirectX. Yes, even for Microsoft's Xbox720/Durango, a developer is better off using OpenGL because it means they can make more money.
This isn't a battle Microsoft can win unless they completely dominate the console, PC, and mobile space in one fell swoop. The chances of that happening are about as good as me getting massaging Kate Upton's boobages.
Red Falcon
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Oh, I know plenty about them, enough to avoid use on the desktop
Trolling in a Windows 8 thread about how awesome a 1% market share OS is that no one really likes for the desktop, is pretty hilarious to try to call "discussion".
I never once said Linux was dominant on the desktop, in fact I acknowledged this point many times in this thread.
That's not what we were discussing, ever.
Do you even know anything about what we are discussing, or are you just enjoying trolling this thread with your nonsense.
That's going to be one short career!
Then, please, leave us alone with your nonsense.
Red Falcon
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Dude, I'm not a "FOSS guy", nor have I discussed this once in this thread.
Read this post of mine and you'll realize that your troll post is complete utter nonsense:
You can shove that FOSS statement where the sun don't shine, troll.
Career as a software developer? Did you graduate from the Asian equivalent of IT Tech?
I forgot something that I wanted to add to the above statement:
The issue of small market share MS faces actually compounds itself with this latest idiotic endeavor. Due to the NXA being dropped, the DirectX compatibility of the next gen MS console (and its Win8 derived OS) means that developers who develop for that console would actually have to do a shitload of work just to get their games to work on Win7 devices. If you've recently taken a look at the Win8 PC market share numbers, you'll see why that problem isn't a tiny problem but a potentially massive one. Win7 PCs are going to eclipse Xbox720+Win8 PCs for years to come so developers are essentially developing for a small portion of users, consequently hurting their own pockets.
I don't think they could have harmed themselves any worse if they wanted to. My god the stupidity...
The issue of small market share MS faces actually compounds itself with this latest idiotic endeavor. Due to the NXA being dropped, the DirectX compatibility of the next gen MS console (and its Win8 derived OS) means that developers who develop for that console would actually have to do a shitload of work just to get their games to work on Win7 devices. If you've recently taken a look at the Win8 PC market share numbers, you'll see why that problem isn't a tiny problem but a potentially massive one. Win7 PCs are going to eclipse Xbox720+Win8 PCs for years to come so developers are essentially developing for a small portion of users, consequently hurting their own pockets.
I don't think they could have harmed themselves any worse if they wanted to. My god the stupidity...
wonderfield
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If that were truly the case, publishers would be enforcing that games be produced with OpenGL and other non-DirectX APIs. They aren't.
You believe that nearly every player in the industry is simply ignorant to the fact that OpenGL means greater revenue? If not, how else could the current situation be explained?
Red Falcon
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It wouldn't mean greater revenue because the majority of non-console games are running on Windows, which just so happens to have the proprietary DirectX API.
If game devs started using OpenGL more frequently, Microsoft might actually start cutting their support, forcing them into a new license agreement just in order to put the games on Windows.
DOOM 3 and Quake 4 were both OpenGL, and they looked pretty damn good for their time, not to mention they were cross-platform which could run on both OS X and Linux, long before Steam was released for either of those platforms.
It is possible, and Valve might just make it become so.
By taking off your desktop-focals.
http://www.mobilevillage.com/top-25-mobile-developers-half-us-app-revenue/
Most development is happening in mobile, not the PC or console arenas. That means most development (for the games at least) is done with the OpenGL APIs. Now you've also got to consider that two consoles will utilize OpenGL and both of them are x86 and Linux as well, therefore the "porting over" process is actually noninvasive and minimal. It's harder for developers who don't develop exclusively for MS (which is nearly all developers) to port their stuff over to a random Linux desktop interface and assure it works well than it is for them to make the jump to DirectX.
That's a big problem for MS. As soon as developers get cozy with OpenGL and there's lots of money in it, they don't need neither DirectX nor Microsoft. Instead of combating that trend by offering DirectX compatibility across the board (maybe for a tiny fee?), they're keeping it to themselves and it's only going to bite them in the ass.
Oh, and the developers utilizing the new DirectX and developing for Win8 won't even have the option of porting their stuff over using NXA to Win7 devices. Nice, huh?
Why do you guys come here just to argue with complete strangers? too much ego?
Anything from Microsoft is bloat and just because it's used over another choice doesn't mean it's better. it's used over another choice because it's Microsoft. they will always choose their own inferior proprietary flavor. As much as I hate Linux users, they are right in this case. Linux > Microsoft x 10000000000
Anything from Microsoft is bloat and just because it's used over another choice doesn't mean it's better. it's used over another choice because it's Microsoft. they will always choose their own inferior proprietary flavor. As much as I hate Linux users, they are right in this case. Linux > Microsoft x 10000000000
Red Falcon
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While I agree with you on the most part, [H] Linux users do not represent the Linux community.
The majority of Linux-based forums are actually very friendly, helpful, and easy to work with.
The Linux users here are just fed up with all of the bullshit spewing from the Microsoft-fanbase about how wonderful their crap OS is, and how great it is to get the shaft, Apple-style.
What amazes me is that I could expect this attitude from Apple fanboys, but Microsoft fanboys? What?!
Just don't say anything bad about Microsoft, Windows, or x86, and you should be able to slip by, undetected.
Helps to avoid the cliches, I'd rather not link myself to any groups... causes far to much animosity
GoldenTiger
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While I agree with you on the most part, [H] Linux users do not represent the Linux community.
The majority of Linux-based forums are actually very friendly, helpful, and easy to work with.
The Linux users here are just fed up with all of the bullshit spewing from the Microsoft-fanbase about how wonderful their crap OS is, and how great it is to get the shaft, Apple-style.
What amazes me is that I could expect this attitude from Apple fanboys, but Microsoft fanboys? What?!
Just don't say anything bad about Microsoft, Windows, or x86, and you should be able to slip by, undetected.
You Linux hippies are the ones coming into a Microsoft thread to troll....
P.S. LOL @ the visitor message you left (I deleted it),
.You couldn't hack it in a debate and failed to annoy people enough, so you have to go around that way with PM's disabled too... I think that says plenty.
On a personal note, a friend of mine asked me about this just this past week. He's a big time gamer on PC and was wondering whether to utilize DirectX or OpenGL - and build a box around specific applications tied to either of those - to make mobile games.
My advice? The same as everyone else gives: go OpenGL. The decision is so one-sided that it doesn't even require a second of contemplation. DirectX doesn't exist in mobile devices or anywhere outside of the PC and Windows. Now, with MS dropping NXA, the choice becomes even more clear. With MS dropping backwards compatibility of DirectX, even if he wanted to develop for the PC and not mobile, he'd actually be better off with OpenGL. MS has quite literally split the entire gaming population of Windows PCs in two: ones with Win8 and ones without it.
What do you think developers are gonna' do? It's easier for them to port natively to Ubuntu than it is to have two separate APIs and manually do the cross-platform work to target both ends of the Windows 8 wall.
My advice? The same as everyone else gives: go OpenGL. The decision is so one-sided that it doesn't even require a second of contemplation. DirectX doesn't exist in mobile devices or anywhere outside of the PC and Windows. Now, with MS dropping NXA, the choice becomes even more clear. With MS dropping backwards compatibility of DirectX, even if he wanted to develop for the PC and not mobile, he'd actually be better off with OpenGL. MS has quite literally split the entire gaming population of Windows PCs in two: ones with Win8 and ones without it.
What do you think developers are gonna' do? It's easier for them to port natively to Ubuntu than it is to have two separate APIs and manually do the cross-platform work to target both ends of the Windows 8 wall.
GoldenTiger
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Wow, you had to dig deep for that quote... it was an iPhone vs. Android thread regarding OS "smoothness" on the UI. Out of context quotes are fun though, eh?
I didn't dig deep. It was so damn retarded I had to save it.
Red Falcon
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You Linux hippies are the ones coming into a Microsoft thread to troll....
P.S. LOL @ the visitor message you left (I deleted it),
LOL, I'm glad you enjoyed it!
Also, I didn't come here to troll, unlike you.
It's called discussion, and we are allowed to contend the Microsoft-fanbase by using GNU/Linux as an example.
"Linux hippie", nice, GoldenTiger keeps it classy.
It says I have a brain and don't want to have my PM inbox spammed to death by trolls like you.
GoldenTiger
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Shame you conveniently forgot to mention any context, which I just provided for you
. As I said, out of context quotes are pretty meaningless. I also find it rather hilarious you "saved" a quote for a year? two? I don't even remember when that was written... to flame with later. You really seem to respect my opinion though to keep such a thing from a forum for so long, though. Thanks for the compliment.
GoldenTiger
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LOL, I'm glad you enjoyed it!
Also, I didn't come here to troll, unlike you.
It's called discussion, and we are allowed to contend the Microsoft-fanbase by using GNU/Linux as an example.
"Linux hippie", nice, GoldenTiger keeps it classy.
It says I have a brain and don't want to have my PM inbox spammed to death by trolls like you.
I'm not the guy coming in flaming Windows 8 in a thread about Windows 8.
Calling you a "linux hippie" is pretty nice compared to the slurs you people have been flinging such as "retarded"
. Of course, double standards for the win... if someone agrees with you they aren't in the wrong, clearly.
Red Falcon
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Every post you've made in this thread has been "out of context", considering you don't even post about what is being discussed.
Damn near every post you've made has been an insult or a mis-quote.
Shame you conveniently forgot to mention any context, which I just provided for you
Hahaha... nice try, but respect isn't the word I'd use. My thoughts are even further away from respect now that you've stated you're a software developer.
I find it rather funny that it's the people who are defending Win8 that have no idea just what the hell this means from a developer's and gamer's perspective. I'll try to clear this up for them...
No NXA means:
- New DirectX versions won't be compatible with your "legacy" PC (legacy being defined as anything Windows 7 and older).
- Games that are done on old APIs might have to be reworked to fit the new Win8 model.
- Developers will have to target both Win7 and Win8 separately. This means more man hours and much much more work just to get their games running on two different OSes (that could have been avoided if Microsoft weren't so fucking stupid)
Developers won't care for DirectX. With OpenGL they can target Steambox, Sony's PS4, Linux gamers, the entire mobile world and all of their devices, as well as the new Xbox and both Win7 and Win8 PCs. For PC games targeting PS4+Steambox, developers would have less work to do with porting titles to Linux PCs/OSes than they would to make a DirectX game for Win7 and Win8.
As I mentioned earlier, there are absolutely no upsides here for the average user or developer. This is strictly MS pushing Windows 8 at the dismay of everyone else
...except heatless. Though this is one of those moves where even heatless might have to admit is borderline retarded.
No NXA means:
- New DirectX versions won't be compatible with your "legacy" PC (legacy being defined as anything Windows 7 and older).
- Games that are done on old APIs might have to be reworked to fit the new Win8 model.
- Developers will have to target both Win7 and Win8 separately. This means more man hours and much much more work just to get their games running on two different OSes (that could have been avoided if Microsoft weren't so fucking stupid)
Developers won't care for DirectX. With OpenGL they can target Steambox, Sony's PS4, Linux gamers, the entire mobile world and all of their devices, as well as the new Xbox and both Win7 and Win8 PCs. For PC games targeting PS4+Steambox, developers would have less work to do with porting titles to Linux PCs/OSes than they would to make a DirectX game for Win7 and Win8.
As I mentioned earlier, there are absolutely no upsides here for the average user or developer. This is strictly MS pushing Windows 8 at the dismay of everyone else
...except heatless. Though this is one of those moves where even heatless might have to admit is borderline retarded.
I was debating. You are the one that started throwing around puerile insults. In your very first post in this thread, you called a guy a liar.
I may disagree with Heatless on a number of issues but at least he can debate civilly.
Red Falcon
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I'm not the guy coming in flaming Windows 8 in a thread about Windows 8.
Calling you a "linux hippie" is pretty nice compared to the slurs you people have been flinging such as "retarded"
I wasn't the one who called you "retarted".
Again, you mis-quote.
Get your posts straight.
Again, it's not flaming, it's called discussion.
And again, you insult, rather than discuss.
This is why no one is taking you, or your posts, seriously.
GoldenTiger
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I debate as civily as the people I am talking with do. The person I responded to was being snarky and rude, so I responded in kind.
----------------
Originally Posted by odditory View Post
Yeah.. "REALLY". Our PC's are not tablets. There's a net decrease in usability for desktop users. There are no Metro apps worth a damn.
The condescending attitude that people need to "feel better" by putting the much more usable start menu back is only helping to polarize fence sitters against this o/s so keep it up.
----------
GoldenTiger
Actually, usability is UP with a full screen for the start menu, as you don't have to look at a small corner of your screen. Of course, most people just press the windows key and start typing, just like in Windows 7, so it's the EXACT same usage. Keep up the hyperbolic lying though!
Reply With Quote
GoldenTiger
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Funny, I was thinking the exact same thing of your posts. You're wondering why I'm not bothering to respond with in-depth discussion? It's because it would be a waste of time and effort judging by your previous posts and your extreme Linux/FOSS bias.
By the way, it's "retarded", not "retarted". I had it spelled correctly.
Red Falcon
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$199.99, that is pretty steep for an OS upgrade-move.
Red Falcon
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From post #254:
Like I said, you don't have a clue what you are talking about and only sling constant insults.
Feel free to STFU and GTFO before you embarrass yourself any further.
Seriously? Now you're picking on grammar? Wow.