Today Is The Last Day For $40 Windows 8

I'm not sure that complaiming about the moderators and forum owners in the forums that they own or moderate would encourage them to feel sympathetic to your plight. Also, if you object to how the forum runs, there's usually an X shaped button at the upper left corner of the web browser that, when clicked, can solve all the problems you run into with other people on the Internet. :)

As for Play on Linux, it works very nicely and I've not personally run into any problems with recent versions of it and WINE about which you speak.
Never said anything bad about the owner nor the moderators, just the trolls ;).
You mean like this?

http://s9.postimage.org/773clqa4b/search.jpg

String lists seem to work fine (and it wastes less screen real estate). Like Windows 8, it is extensible with a plug-in based architecture. I can use it to search files, I can use it to search and pull up open windows, I can use it to search Wikipedia, I can use it to search through my IM contacts, I can use it to search through my e-mail and so on. I can search everything from a single line or I can assign hotkeys to limit my search to specific plugins (such as find a file or find on wikipedia).



Windows users come into the GNU/Linux threads all the time.
But not to the extent that the Linux users troll the Windows threads ;).
 
I'm not sure that complaiming about the moderators and forum owners in the forums that they own or moderate would encourage them to feel sympathetic to your plight. Also, if you object to how the forum runs, there's usually an X shaped button at the upper left corner of the web browser that, when clicked, can solve all the problems you run into with other people on the Internet. :)

As for Play on Linux, it works very nicely and I've not personally run into any problems with recent versions of it and WINE about which you speak.

Screenshot.61202.1000000.jpg
 
There are free versions of Visual Studio.

Which are crippled.

I think most of the IDEs that you mentioned here also available natively for Windows. And of course if one can also use a VM in Windows for things that aren't native to it as well.

Yes but I was discussing alternatives to Visual Studio when switching to GNU/Linux.

The UI really isn't the issue with migrating from Windows to Linux or using Linux for most. It's applications and hardware support that are at the core of the problem.

I rather enjoy being able to take any USB-Serial Adapter or USB Ethernet Adapter, plug it into my computer, and have it work without having to download or search for any drivers. I enjoy being able to install an operating system on a computer without having to worry about finding and downloading NIC drivers first. I enjoy being able to install an operating system without having to "Install Additional Drivers" so the setup program sees my SCSI Controller. Oh and, on my laptop, I really enjoy the fact that Intel's graphics drivers are FOSS and far superior to the Windows drivers. Not only can I fix any program incompatibilities with the drivers myself but I also am immune to things like this.
 
You mean like this?



String lists seem to work fine (and it wastes less screen real estate). Like Windows 8, it is extensible with a plug-in based architecture. I can use it to search files, I can use it to search and pull up open windows, I can use it to search Wikipedia, I can use it to search through my IM contacts, I can use it to search through my e-mail and so on. I can search everything from a single line or I can assign hotkeys to limit my search to specific plugins (such as find a file or find on wikipedia).


But a string list result from a search is generally just an intermediate step, the list itself is just a pointer to something else like these examples:

Screenshot%20(29).png


Screenshot%20(31).png
 
Wow... what? Desktop apps run in the desktop, and metro apps run on the start screen. I barely even touch Metro for normal usage.
That's precisely the point. There shouldn't be two different modes! You shouldn't have to play Mahjong with an operating system. It should present most of the things you need at your finger tips without obscuring the other things you want from time to time. The problem is that native MS apps could execute in Metro or they could execute on the normal Windows shell. Heaven help you to figure out what and when that will occur. Even if you ignore that the common functions (like joining a machine to a domain) what is there is buried around a whole bunch of gobbledygook.

Let's look for system properties. First you go to search, and type system under apps. You get two selections. Neither are system properties and both leave Metro. So you have to hit Home to get back to Metro so you can search again. (Isn't search supposed to be universal???!??) So now let's go to settings and search there. Oh ok this looks promising. Well I see system, then again I also see like 20 different options too. If you didn't know system properties was just called System well you'll be in for a learning experience.....to find System Properties. Why? Why should something so simple require so much effort? Then again you could just go to the twisted sister and open up Explorer there then right click on Computer....but not in Metro. Now if you are good at Windows you could use a hot key for that, but get kicked into the normal Windows just to view it. WTF!?!?

The search is broken into apps and settings, what is confusing about that? It is very easy to use. As far as running programs, I just hit the windows key and start typing as I did in Windows 7.
Again it shouldn't be. The whole point of the search driven paradigm in the face of obscurity it to make it universal and not obscure results. That defeats the whole purpose of it.

There is barely anything to learn as the desktop functions identically to that of Windows 7.
Huh? You just outlined the differences and then you say it's exactly the same? It's NOT!
 
But a string list result from a search is generally just an intermediate step, the list itself is just a pointer to something else like these examples:

Screenshot%20(29).png


Screenshot%20(31).png

Yeah, way to go Windows 8 for pulling down web results for all my searches with uses bandwidth and is yet another dumb security hole. If I want to search the web, I'll decide that for myself thanks. Default seaching the internet for me is system security stupid.
 
So what kind of Windows 8 tablets did you get at work?
Dell inspiron Windows Pro Tablets with an Atom Processor and dock.

I do understand the idea of combining Files, Settings and Apps results and doing something similar to Windows 7 but search in Windows 8 does a lot more than just return string lists. The sub sectioning makes sense because the search in Windows 8 is driven and extended through Modern UI apps and thus string lists are to limiting. Once a string is input into the search box simply an app to search against and then get the search results from that app without having to launch it first. Select a different app to use the same search criteria against that app. It's actually a pretty powerful and useful search mechanism and for much more than just local file searches.
That doesn't make too much sense for anyone who would be booting the system anew. Powerful? Yes. Intuitive? No
 
Which are crippled.

Not the language capabilities, add-on tools like the advance team oriented features TFS aren't there but then there are 3rd party solutions that can be used. One can definitely do sophisticated development with the VS free tools and these tools can be extended by non-Microsoft free tools as well.


Yes but I was discussing alternatives to Visual Studio when switching to GNU/Linux.

Fair enough, I was just pointing out that most of the tools you mentioned were cross-platform.

I rather enjoy being able to take any USB-Serial Adapter or USB Ethernet Adapter, plug it into my computer, and have it work without having to download or search for any drivers. I enjoy being able to install an operating system on a computer without having to worry about finding and downloading NIC drivers first. I enjoy being able to install an operating system without having to "Install Additional Drivers" so the setup program sees my SCSI Controller. Oh and, on my laptop, I really enjoy the fact that Intel's graphics drivers are FOSS and far superior to the Windows drivers. Not only can I fix any program incompatibilities with the drivers myself but I also am immune to things like this.

I've installed 8 on about 15 different machines, the oldest one about 7 years old I think and in every case the network hardware drivers installed automatically without incident or need to download a driver first. On all of touch devices I've installed 8 on, the installer was touch capable, with onscreen keyboard available during the process, no keyboard and mouse were necessary for installation and of course all of the touch drivers for the OS installed without issues. Windows 8 even recognized my network printer and installed drivers for it without having to do anything. As for Intel's graphics drivers being better under Linux, that's probably not the case across the board like the new Clover Trail Atoms, but of course that SoC was targeted for Windows 8 and there are other Atom platforms for Linux and Android.

The universe of hardware is pretty large there's always something out there that can trip up an installer be it Windows, Linux or anything else.
 
Yeah, way to go Windows 8 for pulling down web results for all my searches with uses bandwidth and is yet another dumb security hole. If I want to search the web, I'll decide that for myself thanks. Default seaching the internet for me is system security stupid.

There is no "default" internet searching, you have to explicitly select the app to search with, so it's no different than in that regard than going to a web site by "default". Apps can be removed from the Search bar and wireless connections in Windows 8 can be set to metered to limited traffic and there is even a gauge on wireless connections that will show just how much data that connection has used. I use my Windows 8 tablets with LTE, searching isn't going to eat up much data anyway. The thing to be careful of is video streaming.
 
There is no "default" internet searching, you have to explicitly select the app to search with, so it's no different than in that regard than going to a web site by "default". Apps can be removed from the Search bar and wireless connections in Windows 8 can be set to metered to limited traffic and there is even a gauge on wireless connections that will show just how much data that connection has used. I use my Windows 8 tablets with LTE, searching isn't going to eat up much data anyway. The thing to be careful of is video streaming.

Derp...people have to know the setting is there and understand what it does in order to be interested in changing it. Because there's so few context clues, it's unlikely that people will make modifications. Just because you don't think the beandwidth demand is meaningful doesn't mean someone else won't. What is it with Windows 8 proponents and the idea of assuming their personal preferences and usage models apply to everyone else? That seems like a trend in quite a few posts. Everything from Surface RTs being somehow more powerful and cheaper than Compaq CQ-series laptops to the way search "should" integrate web elements instead of just running against local resources.
 
If I've said it once, I've said it a million times : Wine is NOT an emulator and thus doesn't suffer from the performance implications of one.

Compatibility? I can run 16-bit Windows programs on 64-bit GNU/Linux without an emulator (e.g. no DOSBox). Can you do that on your 64-bit Windows 8? I run Windows games under Wine and with PlayOnLinux, it is point and click. I can even run Microsoft Office 2010 (I refuse to use 2013 since it is so god awful ugly) under Wine including Excel PivotTables with ODBC connections. Photoshop also runs under Wine (not that I need it since I have the GIMP). Z Brush? See here.

Sure, with quite a few quirks and vastly reduced performance. You can't use that in a production environment rather than a teen's bedroom for Linux.

Visual Studio is irrelevant. Besides the fact that you have to be a chump to pay that much for stuff you can get for cheaper or free elsewhere, why would you run it if you are using GNU/Linux? If you are using GNU/Linux, you would be using GNU/Linux development tools to develop programs for your own platform. If you want to develop cross-platform programs, you use something like QT or Java. If you want an IDE that does all the work for you, there is IDEA (which supports multiple languages and not just Java) which is considerably cheaper than Visual Studio. We also have Eclipse, KDevelop, QT Creator, NetBeans, MonoDevelop, Anjuta and Lazarus. And one can't forget VIM and EMACS. For competent programmers, GNU/Linux is a far superior platform. If you must have Visual Studio, you can always virtualize with KVM or VirtualBox (both free and yes, we had virtualization long before Microsoft decided they would include it in their operating systems).

A) Visual Studio is regarded as by far and away the best IDE for development, while MonoDevelop is pretty much a laughingstock amongst many game devs (go read the Unity or UDK forums for plenty of examples). B) Virtually all of those run on Windows as well, not that it matters (other than Eclipse for java).

[/quote]
The "training and learning argument" was nullified by Windows 8. For the average user, who relies on someone else to maintain their computer (IT department, local computer repairman or *shudder* geek squad) there is not much training or learning. A GNU/Linux KDE Desktop resembles traditional versions of Windows far more than Windows 8 does. I speak from actual experience as I took a computer lab in high school and replaced all of the Windows installations with GNU/Linux with KDE; people had no trouble sitting down and getting their work done and it required no additional training (and this was before Ubuntu even existed).
[/quote]

A different version of windows has a 5-10 minute learning curve at most. Linux you could be weeks with before getting to a reasonable proficiency.

Maybe I want to search both. People complain that GNU/Linux is too complex but at least we have a unified search so that I don't have to memorize three different key combinations for three different types of search. Ubuntu also has the HUD and KDE with 4.10 will be getting Apprunner which does the same thing (puts the menu items of the active program into the global search).

Yes, one key is extremely difficult to press. MUCH moreso than finding a search buried in some menu. If you want to search both, you can do so in Windows as well, but the default is by either settings, programs, or files, which is much more useful as you aren't really looking for a setting called "my_document_a001.docx" typically ;).

Linux still has a long way to go for real use other than tinkering, and of course server tech. For the desktop, it's (rightfully so) relegated to an extreme minority that accounts for basically no one in the broader market.
 
Huh? You just outlined the differences and then you say it's exactly the same? It's NOT!

I'm not even going to address the rest of your hyperbolic rant, but the quote you made is EXACTLY RIGHT: the *DESKTOP* functions identically. Note, keyword in asterixes and capitalized.
 
Which are crippled.

Crippled? No, I'd say monodevelop is. Visual Studio's express editions are actually quite powerful. For corporate use of course you'll want things like unit testing capbilities, but at that point a couple hundred bucks for a license is irrelevant. Students can get a $100 copy of the Visual Studio suite pretty readily. Just because something is free doesn't mean it's worth using ;).
 
Derp...people have to know the setting is there and understand what it does in order to be interested in changing it. Because there's so few context clues, it's unlikely that people will make modifications. Just because you don't think the beandwidth demand is meaningful doesn't mean someone else won't. What is it with Windows 8 proponents and the idea of assuming their personal preferences and usage models apply to everyone else? That seems like a trend in quite a few posts. Everything from Surface RTs being somehow more powerful and cheaper than Compaq CQ-series laptops to the way search "should" integrate web elements instead of just running against local resources.

:p Disclaimer: The above post probably contains trolling.

Local is still the default mode of search. If it's even possible to change this, it isn't obvious.
 
Wouldn't buy it for 40 dollars, certainly not going to buy it for a higher price than that.
 
I'm not even going to address the rest of your hyperbolic rant, but the quote you made is EXACTLY RIGHT: the *DESKTOP* functions identically. Note, keyword in asterixes and capitalized.

How can it function identically when the Windows 8 desktop doesn't have a start menu? Before you start using big words like identical maybe you should consult a dictionary or the internet at least.
 
Derp...people have to know the setting is there and understand what it does in order to be interested in changing it. Because there's so few context clues, it's unlikely that people will make modifications. Just because you don't think the beandwidth demand is meaningful doesn't mean someone else won't. What is it with Windows 8 proponents and the idea of assuming their personal preferences and usage models apply to everyone else? That seems like a trend in quite a few posts. Everything from Surface RTs being somehow more powerful and cheaper than Compaq CQ-series laptops to the way search "should" integrate web elements instead of just running against local resources.

Were are the tools and context clues in Windows 7 that show one how to limit and monitor their network usage? And you seem to be implying that in OSes besides Windows 8 a user would be perfectly aware of their bandwidth usage for whatever activity it is that they are performing. Having Modern UI apps that use network connectivity is somehow different from all of the zillions of desktop apps that do the same thing? And just how does one search Newegg or Amazon locally? If all you need or want is local why even have a broadband connection?

And it's not a matter of what I think of bandwidth demand, video streaming is by far the thing to watch out for if you're worried about bandwidth usage. That's simple fact that anyone with capped broadband knows. The only other thing would be large file downloading, and again, I don't know anyone with a capped broadband that's downloading DVD sized ISOs over their capped broadband.
 
Local is still the default mode of search. If it's even possible to change this, it isn't obvious.

I guess if there is such as thing as a default search mode then it would be searching on "Apps" since that's accomplished by simply typing while on the Start Screen which is a local.
 
How can it function identically when the Windows 8 desktop doesn't have a start menu? Before you start using big words like identical maybe you should consult a dictionary or the internet at least.

Neither the Start Screen nor Start Menu are part of the desktop in sense that neither can be used or remain visible while an application or the desktop has input focus. Of course one can view the desktop and desktop applications while the Start Menu has focus but this is also true of a multiple monitor system even with the Start Screen that isn't using a technology that turns the monitors in one logical screen like SLI or Eyefinity.

So much has been said about how alien and different the Windows 8 desktop is compared to Windows 7 but when you look at what is actually the overwhelmingly huge part of what is done on the desktop, running applications, it's amazing that so much debate has arisen over what really is very much functionally identical.
 
Sure, with quite a few quirks and vastly reduced performance. You can't use that in a production environment rather than a teen's bedroom for Linux.

I do all of the same things that damicatz does on Linux.
I'm enjoying modern games with Steam on Ubuntu 10.04, and I too can run 16-bit apps if necessary.

You seriously don't have a fucking clue what you are talking about, damn near everything runs great under WINE, from early 90's programs to applications from 2012.
Unlike that proprietary Microsoft garbage, Linux is only limited by the user's knowledge.

Just stick to your Fisher-Price *cough* I mean Windows OS. :rolleyes:
 
Were are the tools and context clues in Windows 7 that show one how to limit and monitor their network usage? And you seem to be implying that in OSes besides Windows 8 a user would be perfectly aware of their bandwidth usage for whatever activity it is that they are performing. Having Modern UI apps that use network connectivity is somehow different from all of the zillions of desktop apps that do the same thing? And just how does one search Newegg or Amazon locally? If all you need or want is local why even have a broadband connection?

I'm not sure what Windows 7 has to do with this. I'm not comparing Windows 8's search to Windows 7. I'm considering Windows 8's tendency to reach out to web resources as a security problem. Who cares how it compares to Windows 7 or OS/2 Warp or BINGALINGSHADINGGADOO OS? The fact is that Windows 8's search pokes at the internet without being told it can. it just does its own thing which is a different matter than installing a program like Skype that I know will reach out to the net.

And it's not a matter of what I think of bandwidth demand, video streaming is by far the thing to watch out for if you're worried about bandwidth usage. That's simple fact that anyone with capped broadband knows. The only other thing would be large file downloading, and again, I don't know anyone with a capped broadband that's downloading DVD sized ISOs over their capped broadband.

Pick a low hanging fruit. "Oh, but it's okay that it eats bandwidth because videos use more so tra la la, let's all live in happy land with rainbows and unicorns. It's also okay to operate a crane while drunk because snorting cocaine instead is a lot worse. Now where'd I live that needle that I was borrowing from Lloyd?" Oh and let's not forget to lace it with personal experience that has a limited useful scope. "My friends Sally, Beth, and Jordan, they operate cranes while drunk all the time and I've never noticed anything wrong with them."
 
So much has been said about how alien and different the Windows 8 desktop is compared to Windows 7 but when you look at what is actually the overwhelmingly huge part of what is done on the desktop, running applications, it's amazing that so much debate has arisen over what really is very much functionally identical.

The debate isn't about the change, it's about how users are virtually locked into the new interface without the use of 3rd party options.
If it weren't for Start8 and classic shell, no poweruser in their right minds would even think of touching Windows 8.

I do agree with most, that Windows 8 has a lot of new and really good features to offer, but it gets overwhelmingly overshadowed by the hideous and locked-down GUI.
There seriously should have been an option for desktop/laptop platforms, and an option for tablet platforms; this is everyone's big issue with Windows 8 at the moment.

The backwards compatibility is good, but again, others can simply stick it out with Windows 7 and be perfectly happy without the need to do serious customization on the GUI.

Microsoft's big problem is that they no longer listen to their user-base and are, quite frankly, turning into another variant of Apple.
Linux may never be prevalent on the desktop, but with the way things are going with Windows 8 and Microsoft, I wouldn't be surprised to see Linux's desktop share go up a few percentage points.
 
Local is still the default mode of search. If it's even possible to change this, it isn't obvious.

Neither the Start Screen nor Start Menu are part of the desktop in sense that neither can be used or remain visible while an application or the desktop has input focus. Of course one can view the desktop and desktop applications while the Start Menu has focus but this is also true of a multiple monitor system even with the Start Screen that isn't using a technology that turns the monitors in one logical screen like SLI or Eyefinity.

So much has been said about how alien and different the Windows 8 desktop is compared to Windows 7 but when you look at what is actually the overwhelmingly huge part of what is done on the desktop, running applications, it's amazing that so much debate has arisen over what really is very much functionally identical.

Functionally identical? Similar doesn't mean identical. Watch something on youtube with your significant other. Now search for something using the start menu. You better pause that video else your spouse is going to throw something at you.

Now you before you say, well just use Windows + E, try this. Create a file called test on your desktop. Add the following text: "hello world". Now use Win + E and search for "hello world". On a fresh Windows 8 install the default search location will be Computer.

Result: No items match your search. You would think that searching the computer would mean that's it doing a global search of all indexed locations. Nope.

Try the same with the start screen. File found under Files.
 
Functionally identical? Similar doesn't mean identical. Watch something on youtube with your significant other. Now search for something using the start menu. You better pause that video else your spouse is going to throw something at you.

Now you before you say, well just use Windows + E, try this. Create a file called test on your desktop. Add the following text: "hello world". Now use Win + E and search for "hello world". On a fresh Windows 8 install the default search location will be Computer.

Result: No items match your search. You would think that searching the computer would mean that's it doing a global search of all indexed locations. Nope.

Try the same with the start screen. File found under Files.

Oh wow, I knew the search function in Windows sucked, but the Windows 8 search is WOW. :eek:
 
Functionally identical? Similar doesn't mean identical. Watch something on youtube with your significant other. Now search for something using the start menu. You better pause that video else your spouse is going to throw something at you.

Now you before you say, well just use Windows + E, try this. Create a file called test on your desktop. Add the following text: "hello world". Now use Win + E and search for "hello world". On a fresh Windows 8 install the default search location will be Computer.

Result: No items match your search. You would think that searching the computer would mean that's it doing a global search of all indexed locations. Nope.

Try the same with the start screen. File found under Files.

Oh wow, I knew the search function in Windows sucked, but the Windows 8 search is WOW. :eek:

Using Win + E, but selecting desktop before searching will find the file. You would think that Computer would include desktop. Nope.

Input "C:\" in the address field and try again. Nope. File not found. I guess I have to use the start screen. The same start screen that I should be able to ignore.
 
I'm not sure what Windows 7 has to do with this. I'm not comparing Windows 8's search to Windows 7. I'm considering Windows 8's tendency to reach out to web resources as a security problem. Who cares how it compares to Windows 7 or OS/2 Warp or BINGALINGSHADINGGADOO OS? The fact is that Windows 8's search pokes at the internet without being told it can. it just does its own thing which is a different matter than installing a program like Skype that I know will reach out to the net.

Doesn't every OS now have a provision for extensible cloud connected searches? Windows 7 does with its search filters, though it wasn't very much utilized. That's the reason I mentioned it. You're acting as though Windows 8 is doing something that other OSes don't. And no, Windows 8 just doesn't do it's own thing. You have to explicitly search against any given app. The app can be explicitly removed if it's preinstalled, never installed in the first place, removed from the Search Bar or even blocked by the firewall.

Cloud search is simply a way a of life now. The average person probably does far more searching on the net than on local content these days.

Pick a low hanging fruit. "Oh, but it's okay that it eats bandwidth because videos use more so tra la la, let's all live in happy land with rainbows and unicorns. It's also okay to operate a crane while drunk because snorting cocaine instead is a lot worse. Now where'd I live that needle that I was borrowing from Lloyd?" Oh and let's not forget to lace it with personal experience that has a limited useful scope. "My friends Sally, Beth, and Jordan, they operate cranes while drunk all the time and I've never noticed anything wrong with them."

The notion that somehow having cloud search integrated into the search system is bad is makes no sense when doing web searches is the one of main reasons people even have broadband connections to begin with.
 
The debate isn't about the change, it's about how users are virtually locked into the new interface without the use of 3rd party options.
If it weren't for Start8 and classic shell, no poweruser in their right minds would even think of touching Windows 8.

What does a power user do that requires the use of the old UI? I can understand not liking certain things, full screen elements, unfamiliarity, aversion to keyboard shortcuts, etc. but the if one learns how to use the new UI there's little power user can't accomplish without the need of a Start Menu replacement and pretty much just as easily.

I do agree with most, that Windows 8 has a lot of new and really good features to offer, but it gets overwhelmingly overshadowed by the hideous and locked-down GUI.

Funny how it's so locked down yet more Start Menus for Windows 8 than Windows 7.

There seriously should have been an option for desktop/laptop platforms, and an option for tablet platforms; this is everyone's big issue with Windows 8 at the moment.

Not opposed to the idea, but it's not the silver bullet that I think many claim.

The backwards compatibility is good, but again, others can simply stick it out with Windows 7 and be perfectly happy without the need to do serious customization on the GUI.

Just as many are going to be just fine with Windows 8 and never much think about this GUI debate.

Microsoft's big problem is that they no longer listen to their user-base and are, quite frankly, turning into another variant of Apple.
Linux may never be prevalent on the desktop, but with the way things are going with Windows 8 and Microsoft, I wouldn't be surprised to see Linux's desktop share go up a few percentage points.

Of course they listen. But listening to hundreds of millions of customers isn't necessarily easy, especially when some of those customers seem to want you to cling to something that is in a lot of trouble far beyond the issue of a Start Button. The desktop is in relative decline, even Apple saw over a 20% drop in Mac sales this past quarter, I think PCs were actually only down around 7%. I don't think that a 20% drop in Mac sales had anything to do with Windows 8. The market is changing and Microsoft while was slow to adapt is at least doing something now. There are going to bumps in the road when you have a market that's so rapidly and fundamentally changing and of course not everyone is going to be happy for lots of different reasons. Maybe Microsoft will be forced to put back the old UI, but even if they do it's does nothing for the future and just prolongs Windows being tied to the less than hot desktop space.

As for Linux desktop market share going up a few percentage points because of Windows 8, there's been no sign of that happening to this point. Windows 8 looks to have almost double the market share of all Linux desktop distros right now and is closing in on OS X 10.8 for fourth place amount OS versions. http://www.netmarketshare.com/opera...x?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0&qptimeframe=M&qpsp=168

If Microsoft's plight with Windows 8 is a disaster, then every other desktop OS is many times that disaster. As others have pointed out, it's the almost complete lack of any real competition that's allowing Microsoft to do what it has done with Windows 8 coupled with the fact that the desktop war is over and the battle has sifted to mobile.
 
Functionally identical? Similar doesn't mean identical. Watch something on youtube with your significant other. Now search for something using the start menu. You better pause that video else your spouse is going to throw something at you.

I agree with you. Windows 8 doesn't function identical, but rather improved when you know what you are doing. If you have a habit of searching for files while your watching youtube with your spouse, get a second screen while she/he is at anger management therapy. Win 8 does multimonitor much better then windows 7. Then she can watch youtube while you search and not throw things at you. :p

Now you before you say, well just use Windows + E, try this. Create a file called test on your desktop. Add the following text: "hello world". Now use Win + E and search for "hello world". On a fresh Windows 8 install the default search location will be Computer.

Result: No items match your search. You would think that searching the computer would mean that's it doing a global search of all indexed locations. Nope.

Try the same with the start screen. File found under Files.

Why are you using windows+e to search for files, unless you want to search in the directory you are browsing? Windows+F is much quicker and you get the search and the results up on a single page. It will show you the hello world file at once.

I only use metro as a large launcher and search page. As a heavy keyboard user, I find my most accessed programs much faster with metro then the crappy tree menu. A simple press on winkey and I have all my most used programs easy to spot and select.

Now that I have learned windows 8 properly, windows 7 would be a downgrade in my opinion. :)
 
Pick a low hanging fruit. "Oh, but it's okay that it eats bandwidth because videos use more so tra la la, let's all live in happy land with rainbows and unicorns. "

Yeaaaaaaahhhh mannnnnnn, I mean, a few kilobytes is a LOT of bandwidth on a 30gb capped connection compared to say a few hundred megabytes for a video. :rolleyes: It's negligible even on capped connections, and it's a choice to search using it.

Damn, where's that "hurdurken" gif when you need it... :).
 
Cloud search is simply a way a of life now.

I know, let's stick the word "Cloud" in front of the word "search" so it's more buzzy and markety. Also, that makes it lots better from an information security standpoint since the cloud is soft, fluffy, and very safe.

Also, despite your continued attempt to compare Windows 8 to Windows 7, as I already said, I'm not doing that. I'm giving Windows 8 a lot of added leeway by looking at it's own merits and downfalls without measuring it against other products like HP-UX or Solaris 6.

Yeaaaaaaahhhh mannnnnnn, I mean, a few kilobytes is a LOT of bandwidth on a 30gb capped connection compared to say a few hundred megabytes for a video. :rolleyes: It's negligible even on capped connections, and it's a choice to search using it.

Damn, where's that "hurdurken" gif when you need it... :).

Not everyone streams video or is using a broadband connection all the time. Internet connection sharing lets you share a dial up connection and there are even some free telephone ISPs out there. So yeah, that kinda logic and thinking doesn't apply to everyone or even a majority of the world's computer market. Just look at backwards places like Laos, Cambodia, or Texas and you'll see what it's like to live in 3rd world conditions where a few hundred kilobytes matters when you're trying to buy a new purse or send an e-mail to your butler about coming to the manor house an hour earlier than usual since there'll be guests flying in from Crete a little earlier than expected.
 
I agree with you. Windows 8 doesn't function identical, but rather improved when you know what you are doing. If you have a habit of searching for files while your watching youtube with your spouse, get a second screen while she/he is at anger management therapy. Win 8 does multimonitor much better then windows 7. Then she can watch youtube while you search and not throw things at you. :p

I used an easy example. We sometimes do pair programming at work and although we have large screens searching using the start screen takes my partners eyes off the screen. We hate that.
 
I only use metro as a large launcher and search page. As a heavy keyboard user, I find my most accessed programs much faster with metro then the crappy tree menu. A simple press on winkey and I have all my most used programs easy to spot and select.

It depends on what you're searching for and how you're searching. If you're using the start screen plus mouse I've already beaten you. :)

To make it a fair keyboard fight searching using the start screen would have to default to an "ALL" field instead of Apps or Files. It looks like MS thought settings wasn't as important as the rest.
 
Not the language capabilities, add-on tools like the advance team oriented features TFS aren't there but then there are 3rd party solutions that can be used. One can definitely do sophisticated development with the VS free tools and these tools can be extended by non-Microsoft free tools as well.

Some of those features are actually important. I don't need Microsoft dictating what is and isn't important to me. Visual Studio Express is wholly unsuitable for any kind of serious programming because any competent programmer is going to be doing unit testing. The pricing of Visual Studio is similarly outrageous; it may be fine for a corporation but for an individual it is not, especially considering that I just bought IDEA for $50 back in December and that is considerably more sophisticated than Visual Studio.

I've installed 8 on about 15 different machines, the oldest one about 7 years old I think and in every case the network hardware drivers installed automatically without incident or need to download a driver first. On all of touch devices I've installed 8 on, the installer was touch capable, with onscreen keyboard available during the process, no keyboard and mouse were necessary for installation and of course all of the touch drivers for the OS installed without issues. Windows 8 even recognized my network printer and installed drivers for it without having to do anything. As for Intel's graphics drivers being better under Linux, that's probably not the case across the board like the new Clover Trail Atoms, but of course that SoC was targeted for Windows 8 and there are other Atom platforms for Linux and Android.

Windows 8 is new. Come back in a year and tell me how good Windows 8 is at installing drivers automatically for new computers. GNU/Linux is far faster at bundling hardware support with the operating system and when I install GNU/Linux, I always have an up to date kernel with the latest drivers.

Sure, with quite a few quirks and vastly reduced performance. You can't use that in a production environment rather than a teen's bedroom for Linux.

But I do use Wine in a production environment. I use Excel under Wine to interface with my company's Windows-based ERP system via ODBC to create reports using PivotTables.

A) Visual Studio is regarded as by far and away the best IDE for development, while MonoDevelop is pretty much a laughingstock amongst many game devs (go read the Unity or UDK forums for plenty of examples). B) Virtually all of those run on Windows as well, not that it matters (other than Eclipse for java).

By who? A bunch of novice programmers from Microsoft college who don't even know the difference between the stack and the heap?

A different version of windows has a 5-10 minute learning curve at most. Linux you could be weeks with before getting to a reasonable proficiency.

Again, actual experience here. It took 5 minutes for people to figure out how to do their work.

Crippled? No, I'd say monodevelop is. Visual Studio's express editions are actually quite powerful. For corporate use of course you'll want things like unit testing capbilities, but at that point a couple hundred bucks for a license is irrelevant. Students can get a $100 copy of the Visual Studio suite pretty readily. Just because something is free doesn't mean it's worth using ;).

Why should unit testing be limited to corporate use?
 
Windows 8 definitely has it's place for the average consumer.
Just like OS X 10.8, it's mindless computing at it's finest.

Yes, Linux requires a learning curve, of which apparently all but three of us in this thread continue to fail to learn or use.
Seriously GoldenTiger, just stop before you hurt yourself, you really don't know anything about Linux or how much potential it has already been proven to have.

heatlesssun, you can stick to your "cloud" searches, but for those users with a 4GB data cap, it will eventually run out after needless web searches when looking for files on their local machines.
Again, this would have been a great feature if it were optional, not forced by Microsoft.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYTK2FOjN44
Like I said, a Fisher-Price OS, LOL.
 
I thought that this is one of the better commercials for Windows 8. At least it's shown being used. Remember the early Surface commercials? People dancing while snapping on a keyboard FTL.

lol, it is one of the better commercials.
An OS mean for 5 year olds, hahahaha!!!

Yeah, I'll be sticking with the big-boy OSes from now on.
You know, the ones that actually require a bit of ingenuity to use? ;)

lol, I kid, but it does show why Windows 8 appeals so much to the masses.
People don't want to have to think about how to use the OS, they should be able to just use it; one of the reasons OS X 10.8 is so popular with non-Apple fanboys, while even now the Apple fanboys are starting to protest it and prefer versions like 10.6 and 10.7.

It's one of the many reasons Linux will never exist as a dominant OS on the desktop, and most likely, not tablets either.
It just has too steep of a learning curve, and while people want automation, that is one thing that Linux has to be customized by the user to do, it's normally not like that out-of-the-box.

All that said and done, I still think Microsoft should have given their users more options on the GUI than they did.
Oh well, Start8 and Classic Shell appear to fix all of the Modern UI nonsense for powerusers.
 
Some of those features are actually important. I don't need Microsoft dictating what is and isn't important to me. Visual Studio Express is wholly unsuitable for any kind of serious programming because any competent programmer is going to be doing unit testing.

Then I guess it's a good thing that the Visual Studio Express 2012 development tools support unit testing, source control and code coverage: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudi...express-2012-for-windows-desktop-is-here.aspx

The pricing of Visual Studio is similarly outrageous; it may be fine for a corporation but for an individual it is not, especially considering that I just bought IDEA for $50 back in December and that is considerably more sophisticated than Visual Studio.

That's why for individuals there's the Express tools which are probably more powerful than you realize considering that you didn't seem to be aware that unit testing is included in 2012 version of the Express tools. I think that making broad comparisons like IDE X is considerably more sophisticated than IDE Y are pretty meaningless unless one virtually lives in said tools 24/7. The top tier tools are so complex and advanced and change so rapidly that unless one uses and studies them constantly there's just no way even smart and experienced developers can fully understand all that they do let alone 3rd party extensions and libraries that often fill in gaps.

Windows 8 is new. Come back in a year and tell me how good Windows 8 is at installing drivers automatically for new computers. GNU/Linux is far faster at bundling hardware support with the operating system and when I install GNU/Linux, I always have an up to date kernel with the latest drivers.

If I came back in a year I would imagine that there would still be many number missing drivers or driver issues from half-baked solutions from someone who played with the idea and never finished it because there was no support from the hardware manufacturer. More than ever with the arrival of Windows 8, Windows is coming on very specialized devices that support things like broadband, ambient light sensors, advanced power management, docks, touch and pen digitizers, multi-touch track pads, gyroscopes, compasses, NFC and GPS radios and accelerometers. Network and graphics drivers are just the tip of the proverbial iceberg when it comes to drivers these days.

I understand that Linux can support all of these things but OEMs at this point certainly aren't devoting resources to get all of stuff working smoothly on Linux. Considering what many Linux guys think of Windows 8 OEMs would be wasting their time on a tiny market that wouldn't buy these devices anyway.

Linux has its strengths with how it deals with drivers and updates however the support for new and modern hardware isn't one of them.
 
*What is it with Linux proponents and the idea of assuming their personal preferences and usage models apply to everyone else? That seems like a trend in quite a few posts.

Guess I can do it too, eh Skribblekat?
 
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