Tim Cook to Investors: People Bought Fewer New iPhones Because They Repaired Their Old Ones

Master_shake_

[H]ardForum Junkie
Joined
Apr 9, 2012
Messages
10,682
Wednesday, Apple CEO Tim Cook wrote a letter to investors alerting them that the company would miss its revenue targets in part because Apple didn’t sell as many iPhones as it expected. The lengthy letter cites, specifically, that people are buying fewer iPhones because they are repairing their old ones.

Apple has long fought efforts that would make iPhones easier to repair: It has lobbied against right to repair efforts in several states, doesn’t sell iPhone replacement parts, sued an independent repair professional in Norway, worked with Amazon to get iPhone and MacBook refurbishers kicked off Amazon Marketplace, and has deals with electronics recyclers that require them to shred iPhones and MacBooks (as opposed to allowing them to be refurbished.) The Department of Homeland Security, meanwhile, has seized iPhone replacement parts from prominent right to repair activists in the United States.
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/zmd9a5/tim-cook-to-investors-people-bought-fewer-new-iphones-because-they-repaired-their-old-ones?utm_source=dmfb

its obviously a BS excuse people love buying new stuff.

perhaps the price the serfs will pay is too low for apple?

still it's pretty shitty what they are doing to people who fix these things and the environment.
 

scojer

[H]ardness Supreme
Joined
Jun 13, 2009
Messages
4,232
If they want to move product, they need to make the old products obsolete. They need to stop updating the software of the old devices (aside from security patches) and, oh, I don't know, how about actually innovate something on their own for their next device, rather than copy from something Android did a few generations ago?
 

ThatITGuy

Limp Gawd
Joined
May 5, 2017
Messages
334
partially true. I have an iphone 6. I replaced the battery in it to keep it running. I would not buy any of the newer phones because 1) lack of headphone jack 2) camera quality increases have not been drastic enough for me to say I must have a new one 3) price... 1k is far too much for a phone; i don't care if they are breaking it out monthly.
 

ThatITGuy

Limp Gawd
Joined
May 5, 2017
Messages
334
If they want to move product, they need to make the old products obsolete. They need to stop updating the software of the old devices (aside from security patches) and, oh, I don't know, how about actually innovate something on their own for their next device, rather than copy from something Android did a few generations ago?
They do this, and I abandon Apple/iphone for someone else. Only reason I keep the iphone is to be able to Facetime my kids and family. I would likely be annoyed enough by them doing this to be driven to find an alternative.
Android innovation at the app level is the current problem with Android. They come up with good ideas, and then get bored of them and abandon them within a few years. They have no FaceTime competitor, and have killed off 3 possibilities over the past few years. There is a lack of singular vision on consumer need to product offering. If not for that, I would likely still be on Android.
 
Last edited:

Master_shake_

[H]ardForum Junkie
Joined
Apr 9, 2012
Messages
10,682
If they want to move product, they need to make the old products obsolete. They need to stop updating the software of the old devices (aside from security patches) and, oh, I don't know, how about actually innovate something on their own for their next device, rather than copy from something Android did a few generations ago?
they did, remember throttle-gate?

under the guise of battery power they gimped your phone.

such benevolent leaders to choose that for you.
 

Armenius

I Drive Myself to the [H]ospital
Joined
Jan 28, 2014
Messages
20,533
Unless they are talking about replacing broken screens, I think this is complete BS. Even with broken screens, it is ludicrous to think a person should buy a brand new Iphone because the glass cracked.
Apple considers replacing a dead battery to be a "repair." The fuckers glue them into the case with industrial adhesive and then warn people that the battery might explode if you try to remove it. Then they added a "feature" to the phone that warns users with a service error if you replace the battery not using an Apple repair center. "Fake" batteries are dangerous!
 

scojer

[H]ardness Supreme
Joined
Jun 13, 2009
Messages
4,232
they did, remember throttle-gate?

under the guise of battery power they gimped your phone.

such benevolent leaders to choose that for you.
I do remember that.

That's because they were shady and snuck it in. If they actually announced it, made it public, then made it happen, it'd be a different story.

If they said: "We are no longer going to be bringing new software features to our older models, and they'll only be available on the newer generation."

People would be upset at first, but when they see a gimmicky feature they like, they'll upgrade.
 

ThatITGuy

Limp Gawd
Joined
May 5, 2017
Messages
334
I do remember that.

That's because they were shady and snuck it in. If they actually announced it, made it public, then made it happen, it'd be a different story.

If they said: "We are no longer going to be bringing new software features to our older models, and they'll only be available on the newer generation."

People would be upset at first, but when they see a gimmicky feature they like, they'll upgrade.
I am fine with not getting "new software features" on my older model. Honestly, what new feature has been rolled out that has actually been a defining feature? Apple has FaceTime and that is about it. I use it for phone calls, FaceTime, and Maps (Google Maps actually) when driving. Occasionally I use the browser, but I have other devices I use more often for that. For the kids, I would say Instagram/Snapchat/other social media app would be the only other primary usage item, and those are apps from other companies, and they also exist on competitors (i.e. you break older models of iphone, I can just as easy use Android for this).
I get that there are some of the dumb people that would buy the new iphone just to get whatever marketing fluff feature is announced.... but they are already likely doing that today and it sounds like there aren't enough of those types people to drive the sales numbers Apple wants.
 

Krazy925

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 29, 2012
Messages
4,087
Phones have basically gone from a luxury device to an appliance.

We’ve seen it with TVs, computers, and plenty of other devices.

A new phone just isn’t really a big deal anymore for most people.

It’s been a few models since I’ve repaired an iPhone (7 or 8 can’t remember) but even with all their glue and shit it wasn’t that hard once you got the screen separated from the body of the case.
 

capnstabn

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 6, 2006
Messages
463
His quote should have been:


"I am starting to realize we missed our earnings because nobody gives a shit about another streaming service, another home wire tap, or a 1,000 dollar monitor stand. Think different and we'll see you after the Q1 iPhone software update!"
 

Archaea

[H]ardForum Junkie
Joined
Oct 19, 2004
Messages
9,861
You start forcing obsolescence you’ll lose me as a customer quick.

The tech isn’t improving fast enough to warrant a upgrade every cycle.

And $1k pricepoints... hello?!?!?

Apple should rerelease their new phone with a headphone jack option, and cheaper cameras at the $500 pricepoint, and watch sales take off again. How many megapixels do we really need? I’d like to pay less for my phone with a ‘good camera’ for pictures and an OK camera for facetime, and not two bleeding edge great/expensive cameras.

Don’t force obsolescence.
 

sirmonkey1985

[H]ard|DCer of the Month - July 2010
Joined
Sep 13, 2008
Messages
21,754
Phones have basically gone from a luxury device to an appliance.

We’ve seen it with TVs, computers, and plenty of other devices.

A new phone just isn’t really a big deal anymore for most people.

It’s been a few models since I’ve repaired an iPhone (7 or 8 can’t remember) but even with all their glue and shit it wasn’t that hard once you got the screen separated from the body of the case.
not to mention just like TV's, computers, and cars everything has turned into incremental updates every year for a significantly higher price. eventually people catch on to what they're doing and change their buying habits.
 

vegeta535

2[H]4U
Joined
Jul 19, 2013
Messages
3,676
Phones have basically gone from a luxury device to an appliance.

We’ve seen it with TVs, computers, and plenty of other devices.

A new phone just isn’t really a big deal anymore for most people.

It’s been a few models since I’ve repaired an iPhone (7 or 8 can’t remember) but even with all their glue and shit it wasn’t that hard once you got the screen separated from the body of the case.
Honestly I am surprised it took people this long to realize this. Apple getting greedy with their retarded prices finally got people to wake the fuck up.
 

Krazy925

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 29, 2012
Messages
4,087
Honestly I am surprised it took people this long to realize this. Apple getting greedy with their retarded prices finally got people to wake the fuck up.
The S10 launched at $899. Both flavors are fucking us on price. I just personally and believe this applies to the market as a whole, don’t need a new phone every year or 2. They’re lasting 3-4 years now without much work. I basically have a brand new iPhone X because of the digitizer going bad on a launch device. Apple replaced it for free.

I’m probably not going to buy device for at least 2 years and Tim Cook can’t do shit about it.
 

Youn

[H]ardness Supreme
Joined
Jan 22, 2007
Messages
5,631
I've been eyeing the samsung a10 for $100, seems to do everything 99.9% of people actually need... maybe that's a hint as to why "people bought fewer new iphones"
 

Jagger100

[H]ardness Supreme
Joined
Oct 31, 2004
Messages
7,561
Cart before the horse? If you didn't feel like upgrading because what you have is good enough since phones have plateau'ed technologically. And socially the fad is over and keeping up with the 'Joneses' is no longer important. Given those things, people are more likely to seek repair than an upgrade.

Bad news for you Tim, Phones peaked. Maybe 5G might spark interest but only if data plans change accordingly. The more you tighten your grip, the more customers will slip through your fingers.
 
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Messages
1,005
Aw, poor poor crApple or any other company upset people aren't buying the newest tech of theirs because they are happy with what they have and will save money fixing it....
I held on to my 1st smartphone for about 6-7 years til the USB jack started to give up, and that was after a screen break and the original replaceable battery was dying.

People should have the right to repair or place stuff.
 

Aurelius

2[H]4U
Joined
Mar 22, 2003
Messages
2,610
Did anyone here stop to notice that the letter is from January 2019? That's a year ago, folks. Apple is expected to see a year-over-year uptick in sales in its earnings report this month due to lower prices and more competitive hardware.

Moreover, the claim that sales dropped due to people repairing phones is misleading. Cook says that people were taking advantage of lower-priced battery replacements -- this option was always available, it was just a bit more accessible while those discounts were running. Now, you could argue that Apple's battery replacement pricing is an unnecessarily high deterrent to continuing to use an iPhone, but please don't make it sound like everyone is using iFixit repair guides to tear apart their devices.

Also, gotta love how scojer seriously suggests that Apple move to a shorter OS update cycle to boost sales, yet most people here are whining about forced obsolescence. Don't you see the contradiction here? You want Apple to give people reasons to use phones for longer, yet blast it for an OS update policy that... lets you use your phone longer.

Look, we get it. You love the fantasies of Apple as the eeeeevil money-grubbing corporation and Google as the champion of the people. You dream of a day when Android has a total monopoly and meaningful competition is dead. But real life is more complex than that, and you're certainly not helping your case by being intentionally deceptive.
 

Grimlaking

2[H]4U
Joined
May 9, 2006
Messages
3,120
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/zmd9a5/tim-cook-to-investors-people-bought-fewer-new-iphones-because-they-repaired-their-old-ones?utm_source=dmfb

its obviously a BS excuse people love buying new stuff.

perhaps the price the serfs will pay is too low for apple?

still it's pretty shitty what they are doing to people who fix these things and the environment.

Tim cook needs to be shot for shit like this. I know it sounds extreme and it is. I'm dead tired of vendors making product designed to fail.
 

vegeta535

2[H]4U
Joined
Jul 19, 2013
Messages
3,676
The S10 launched at $899. Both flavors are fucking us on price. I just personally and believe this applies to the market as a whole, don’t need a new phone every year or 2. They’re lasting 3-4 years now without much work. I basically have a brand new iPhone X because of the digitizer going bad on a launch device. Apple replaced it for free.

I’m probably not going to buy device for at least 2 years and Tim Cook can’t do shit about it.
Oh I know both sides do it. Apple just started the trend upwards and Android makers followed.
 

Retronym

Something big is coming.
Joined
Mar 5, 2007
Messages
12,262
My 4 year old niece asked her grandparents if she could tether her device to their phone.

I'm thinking we have market saturation for tech in general.
 

Master_shake_

[H]ardForum Junkie
Joined
Apr 9, 2012
Messages
10,682
Did anyone here stop to notice that the letter is from January 2019? That's a year ago, folks. Apple is expected to see a year-over-year uptick in sales in its earnings report this month due to lower prices and more competitive hardware.

Moreover, the claim that sales dropped due to people repairing phones is misleading. Cook says that people were taking advantage of lower-priced battery replacements -- this option was always available, it was just a bit more accessible while those discounts were running. Now, you could argue that Apple's battery replacement pricing is an unnecessarily high deterrent to continuing to use an iPhone, but please don't make it sound like everyone is using iFixit repair guides to tear apart their devices.

Also, gotta love how scojer seriously suggests that Apple move to a shorter OS update cycle to boost sales, yet most people here are whining about forced obsolescence. Don't you see the contradiction here? You want Apple to give people reasons to use phones for longer, yet blast it for an OS update policy that... lets you use your phone longer.

Look, we get it. You love the fantasies of Apple as the eeeeevil money-grubbing corporation and Google as the champion of the people. You dream of a day when Android has a total monopoly and meaningful competition is dead. But real life is more complex than that, and you're certainly not helping your case by being intentionally deceptive.
then Tim has had a full year to retract or amend his statement.

i'd love to see it.,
 

Krazy925

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 29, 2012
Messages
4,087
Did anyone here stop to notice that the letter is from January 2019? That's a year ago, folks. Apple is expected to see a year-over-year uptick in sales in its earnings report this month due to lower prices and more competitive hardware.

Moreover, the claim that sales dropped due to people repairing phones is misleading. Cook says that people were taking advantage of lower-priced battery replacements -- this option was always available, it was just a bit more accessible while those discounts were running. Now, you could argue that Apple's battery replacement pricing is an unnecessarily high deterrent to continuing to use an iPhone, but please don't make it sound like everyone is using iFixit repair guides to tear apart their devices.

Also, gotta love how scojer seriously suggests that Apple move to a shorter OS update cycle to boost sales, yet most people here are whining about forced obsolescence. Don't you see the contradiction here? You want Apple to give people reasons to use phones for longer, yet blast it for an OS update policy that... lets you use your phone longer.

Look, we get it. You love the fantasies of Apple as the eeeeevil money-grubbing corporation and Google as the champion of the people. You dream of a day when Android has a total monopoly and meaningful competition is dead. But real life is more complex than that, and you're certainly not helping your case by being intentionally deceptive.
I mean I guess you could argue that battery replacement cost is too high but part of the reason I don’t have to fix peoples phones anymore is because a legit authorized battery change at an Apple store is $49 and $69. Parts plus a little time and the chance for breakage leads me to recommending this option. I’ve used good batteries and crummy ones and it’s a little bit of a crapshoot. One of my iPhones after I changed the battery would get almost alarmingly warm because the battery was super cheap.

I might change out a screen still but it’s been a while since that’s come up. I’m not familiar with that price point off the top of my head.

The only reason Apple is still worth a fuck is it’s continued software updates and being able to use iChat from a MacBook or iPad if you are already using those. Most other parts of the environment are frustrating. Apple Maps, Apple Music and most of the default apps suck.
 

Aurelius

2[H]4U
Joined
Mar 22, 2003
Messages
2,610
then Tim has had a full year to retract or amend his statement.

i'd love to see it.,
I don't think you get the point. It's that the OP is being misleading (maybe even intentionally so) about both the currency of this news and what Cook actually said. Lower prices on a battery replacement program don't amount to some broader initiative on the part of users to repair their phones. Apple dropped prices for something and people took advantage of it, go figure.

And I still have to snicker at people who lambast Apple for supposedly planned obsolescence, yet eagerly support Android vendors who do worse on a regular basis.
 

scojer

[H]ardness Supreme
Joined
Jun 13, 2009
Messages
4,232
Did anyone here stop to notice that the letter is from January 2019? That's a year ago, folks. Apple is expected to see a year-over-year uptick in sales in its earnings report this month due to lower prices and more competitive hardware.

Moreover, the claim that sales dropped due to people repairing phones is misleading. Cook says that people were taking advantage of lower-priced battery replacements -- this option was always available, it was just a bit more accessible while those discounts were running. Now, you could argue that Apple's battery replacement pricing is an unnecessarily high deterrent to continuing to use an iPhone, but please don't make it sound like everyone is using iFixit repair guides to tear apart their devices.

Also, gotta love how scojer seriously suggests that Apple move to a shorter OS update cycle to boost sales, yet most people here are whining about forced obsolescence. Don't you see the contradiction here? You want Apple to give people reasons to use phones for longer, yet blast it for an OS update policy that... lets you use your phone longer.

Look, we get it. You love the fantasies of Apple as the eeeeevil money-grubbing corporation and Google as the champion of the people. You dream of a day when Android has a total monopoly and meaningful competition is dead. But real life is more complex than that, and you're certainly not helping your case by being intentionally deceptive.
I said IF they wanted to move more product. If I was running a company and our sales slowed down because people weren't upgrading as often, I'd do one of two things:

1) lengthen the generation gap. Rather than have a new model year over year, release products every two or three years

2) forced obsolescence by only providing security updates to older models
2a) If they want newer features, then require payment to update software on older devices

But, I'm not running a company, and, Android devices aren't updated nearly as long as iPhones, so, maybe Apple should copy another Android feature and just not update older devices.
 

Aurelius

2[H]4U
Joined
Mar 22, 2003
Messages
2,610
I mean I guess you could argue that battery replacement cost is too high but part of the reason I don’t have to fix peoples phones anymore is because a legit authorized battery change at an Apple store is $49 and $69. Parts plus a little time and the chance for breakage leads me to recommending this option.

I might change out a screen still but it’s been a while since that’s come up. I’m not familiar with that price point off the top of my head.

The only reason Apple is still worth a fuck is it’s continued software updates and being able to use iChat from a MacBook or iPad if you are already using those. Most other parts of the environment are frustrating. Apple Maps, Apple Music and most of the default apps suck.
Apple stuff is worth much more than that. Apple Music is actually quite good (I can't stand Spotify's poor song queue management), Maps is much better now and many of the stock apps are just fine. And let's face it, the Apple Watch is the best overall smartwatch on the market... you need an iPhone if you're going to use it.
 

Aurelius

2[H]4U
Joined
Mar 22, 2003
Messages
2,610
I said IF they wanted to move more product. If I was running a company and our sales slowed down because people weren't upgrading as often, I'd do one of two things:

1) lengthen the generation gap. Rather than have a new model year over year, release products every two or three years

2) forced obsolescence by only providing security updates to older models
2a) If they want newer features, then require payment to update software on older devices

But, I'm not running a company, and, Android devices aren't updated nearly as long as iPhones, so, maybe Apple should copy another Android feature and just not update older devices.
Oh, I know that's what your argument is, but I don't think it holds up -- and if it was, it'd be pretty damning of Google and all Android vendors. Are you suggesting that Android sales would tank if Google didn't abandon feature updates after two years?
 

Armenius

I Drive Myself to the [H]ospital
Joined
Jan 28, 2014
Messages
20,533
I've been eyeing the samsung a10 for $100, seems to do everything 99.9% of people actually need... maybe that's a hint as to why "people bought fewer new iphones"
I bought my first "smart" phone about a year ago, slashed to $400 from $800, and I still feel like I paid too much. Still the only thing I use it for is calls and texts. What, exactly, do we need handheld computers for again? Supposedly the battery in this thing only lasts 18-25 hours and I can go nearly 2 weeks without charging it.
Apple stuff is worth much more than that. Apple Music is actually quite good (I can't stand Spotify's poor song queue management), Maps is much better now and many of the stock apps are just fine. And let's face it, the Apple Watch is the best overall smartwatch on the market... you need an iPhone if you're going to use it.
https://time.com/5347133/sunk-cost-fallacy-decisions/
 

Krazy925

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 29, 2012
Messages
4,087
Apple stuff is worth much more than that. Apple Music is actually quite good (I can't stand Spotify's poor song queue management), Maps is much better now and many of the stock apps are just fine. And let's face it, the Apple Watch is the best overall smartwatch on the market... you need an iPhone if you're going to use it.
Apple Maps is a poor replacement for Waze. Apple Music I used the trial and found it to be lacking in content (let’s chalk this up to musical preferences because Spotify has most major and minor punk releases). The radio stations were pretty poor but pandora IMO owns that space anyways. I don’t find the queue system to be an issue with Spotify.

I don’t wear an Apple Watch because I have several very expensive watches I wear. It definitely is the best. Love my AirPods. Love iChat. I like my iPad and it’s ability to sync with an Xbox one controller.

I actually like the email app since inbox closed. But the rest whether it be their news app, or a bunch of the others sucks. I also don’t like that they force Apple Music and Apple Maps down your throat when you click on an address or plug your phone into a stereo.
 

kirbyrj

[H]ard as it Gets
Joined
Feb 1, 2005
Messages
25,216
I've been eyeing the samsung a10 for $100, seems to do everything 99.9% of people actually need... maybe that's a hint as to why "people bought fewer new iphones"
That's actually why I "downgraded" to a Pixel 3a. $400 still isn't cheap, but I think in the current phone market it's a decent price for what you were getting (3 years of Android updates, a good camera, and better battery life than the flagships).
 

Krazy925

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 29, 2012
Messages
4,087
I bought my first "smart" phone about a year ago, slashed to $400 from $800, and I still feel like I paid too much. Still the only thing I use it for is calls and texts. What, exactly, do we need handheld computers for again? Supposedly the battery in this thing only lasts 18-25 hours and I can go nearly 2 weeks without charging it.

https://time.com/5347133/sunk-cost-fallacy-decisions/
Work? That’s what many people use their smartphones for.

I can do some pretty complicated tasks without fetching my tablet or laptop out of my trunk.

What’s funny about your response is even my father nearing his 80s can check his email from his phone. So you’re about in the extreme minority at this point. Enjoy beating that drum.
 

Armenius

I Drive Myself to the [H]ospital
Joined
Jan 28, 2014
Messages
20,533
Work? That’s what many people use their smartphones for.

I can do some pretty complicated tasks without fetching my tablet or laptop out of my trunk.

What’s funny about your response is even my father nearing his 80s can check his email from his phone. So you’re about in the extreme minority at this point. Enjoy beating that drum.
It's crazy to think that anything in this world got done before the advent of "smart" phones, am I right?
 

wyqtor

Limp Gawd
Joined
Dec 30, 2011
Messages
433
I thought they bought fewer iPhones because they were so damn expensive.

In Romania where I live, a Samsung Note 10+ is about 1000 Euros, while an iPhone 11 Pro Max is 1250 Euros. Why the hell should I pay 25% more for an inferior product?
 

Aurelius

2[H]4U
Joined
Mar 22, 2003
Messages
2,610
Oh, cut the "I'll just share a link and avoid thinking for myself" bullshit. I can use Spotify on my iPhone if I want, and I have; I mainly use Google Maps; and yes, I've used other smartwatches. I'm not even saying everything is better, just that the blanket claim about Apple mediocrity is unsupported by evidence. Besides, it's a bit rich for you to argue this when you've literally admitted that you don't even use the vast majority of apps on the phone you have. Get back to me when you can actually make comparisons based on experience.
 
Top