Thoughts on Android Tablet...?

Bahamut

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Get this instead:

http://www.archos.com/products/ta/archos_101it/index.html

for a 10.1" tablet, or if you prefer a 7" model get this:

http://www.archos.com/products/ta/archos_70it/index.html

Right now and for the coming few months, those are going to be the Android tablets to beat. Android has no use for "dual cores" so that's a marketing gimmick more than anything else. Besides, the Intel dual core Atoms are just now hitting the market and there's no way in hell that eBay tablet has one in it for the current bids or even close to it. There's just something fishy about that auction...

Android doesn't look like that so at worst they're running some kind of customized overlay on the basic OS to make it look more like an iPad's interface. I wouldn't touch that thing with a 10 fo--oh, well, everyone knows that old saying. :D

Android doesn't start up like that either, with the black screen and the letters A N D R O I D on it - that's how Android-x86 loads up, which is not quite the same OS at all. Android-x86 is the somewhat hacked version of Android designed to run directly on actual x86 processors like Pentiums, Celerons, Core stuff, etc - not mobile device CPUs like those from ARM, etc.

The whole thing says "Run away from this auction as fast as you can..."
 

Ashton

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sounds suspiciously like someone bought a pallet of older CoreDuos (or similar) tablets and slapped Android on them... while I have nothing against it, I'd prefer it be stated up-front...

I dont know the speed differences (I know ARM is a RISK processor so it's "clock-speed" is equivalent to a faster x86 CPU (someone told me my old 600mhz was actually close to performance of a 1ghz x86) though from what I've read Android FLIES even on sub-1ghz processors so it gets to the point where it's moot unless your doing something really intensive.

This, of course, begs the question of whether this device can run anything from the marketplace since it's likely got a different processor architecture than normal android devices...

I'm wondering if I should just get an EVO instead of an Epic in Oct, screen is a little smaller but it seems to solve both problems (tho a 4 hour battery life is a joke and I want a hardware keyboard, so...)

will definitely keep an eye on those two you linked, unless the price is astronomical they look like a better device than the thing I saw on ebay in whatever case.
 

DanNeely

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ashton: I don't think so. Google for ZT-180 and you'll get a bunch of hits for the tablet. I'm turning up conflicting stories on if it's Cortex-A8 or ARM11 based, although it appears that the latter is correct.
 

adri1456

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I have a Flatpad (basically a rebadged ZT-180) and the Android OS still needs work to be used on a tablet, or Google needs to replace it with the Chrome OS.

The Flatpad has terrible wifi issues (always dropping the connection while surfing even though I haven't moved an inch) and the battery still drains even though I shut the device off.

I'd wait for the upcoming android tablets this fall, but I can't wait for devices.
 

DanNeely

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at that price it's still a cheapo china product not aimed at developed world customers. Quality on them always sucks. As for android OS, google has publicly stated that 2.2 is not suited for tablets and that android tablet makers should wait until 3.0 is out in a few months.
 

Sly

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I'm still waiting for Android 3. The current iteration is basically a supersized variant of something meant for mobile phones. They promise that version 3 will be geared towards larger devices (i.e. slates).
 

Sly

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at that price it's still a cheapo china product not aimed at developed world customers. Quality on them always sucks. As for android OS, google has publicly stated that 2.2 is not suited for tablets and that android tablet makers should wait until 3.0 is out in a few months.

I've read that Android 3.0 slates aren't coming out until next year. Did they step up the timetable? (God i hope so!)
 

DanNeely

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The new year is only about 3 months away. Rumors I've seen are the holidays to early next year. If possible I'm sure Google wants to get the first devices out for the xmas shopping season.
 

Ashton

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If 3.0 is due out at Xmas time, I'm gonna wait. No point in buying a 2.2 device when 3.0 will be available that soon.
 

Bahamut

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I haven't seen a peep from Google with any announced dates or even estimates of when Android 3.0 could roll out, even in beta form. Nothing wrong with 2.2 for now. I'd rather have a device and put it to use now with a potential 3.0 update later on than not have anything at all, but that's just me I suppose.
 

Ashton

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I haven't seen a peep from Google with any announced dates or even estimates of when Android 3.0 could roll out, even in beta form. Nothing wrong with 2.2 for now. I'd rather have a device and put it to use now with a potential 3.0 update later on than not have anything at all, but that's just me I suppose.

Depends on hardware compatibility and improvements I guess... but since the job I was gonna use it for fell thro, I'm saving and waiting...

BTW: any chance of a WiNE for Android? Is it powerful enough to handle CPU emulation to run X86 programs?
 

Ronco

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Kinda defeats the purpose of running such an OS in the first place, doesn't it? :D

I think the majority of people - and this is even, or perhaps especiallym, in the 'self-prescribed tech geeks' area - don't know what they want, and don't really know what they're buying. It's no wonder that to these guys an Apple is such a revelation when they finally actually go and check one out.

As for me, I've little interest in a cheaper iPad done worse - and some Android-based machines that promise a better experience are apparently vapourware. The RIM looks interesting but there's no actual product yet, and Microsoft is apparently busy still shooting itself in the foot. Sigh.
 

Bahamut

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As for me, I've little interest in a cheaper iPad done worse - and some Android-based machines that promise a better experience are apparently vapourware. The RIM looks interesting but there's no actual product yet, and Microsoft is apparently busy still shooting itself in the foot. Sigh.

QFT because this is exactly why Apple has had such success with the iPad. Not because it's the best product of its kind out there, but because its the ONLY product of its kind out there.

People don't have a choice at this point, and the blame lies with every company that's putting out those damned announcements of this, that, this on steroids, that running Android, a device coming next year, high resolution mockups of shit that doesn't even exist as vaporware, promises, promises, etc.

It's pretty fucked up, it really is. My advice to every company out there is simple:

PUT UP OR SHUT UP. ;)
 

SR45

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QFT because this is exactly why Apple has had such success with the iPad. Not because it's the best product of its kind out there, but because its the ONLY product of its kind out there.

People don't have a choice at this point, and the blame lies with every company that's putting out those damned announcements of this, that, this on steroids, that running Android, a device coming next year, high resolution mockups of shit that doesn't even exist as vaporware, promises, promises, etc.

It's pretty fucked up, it really is. My advice to every company out there is simple:

PUT UP OR SHUT UP. ;)

Suggest you do a little research first before such a comment. There are at least three if not more tablets already out in the wild for sale in addition to Ipad/Toshiba’s Libretto W100 Tablet / Dell streak
and another (Exopc/SamSungung Galaxy) next month and Wetab / Hanvon tablets are out in Europe. For me, I can wait for the 3.0 Adroid since I already have a computer and no hurries for me and that don't have to rush out and get the very first one on the block just so I could kick myself for not having patients ;)
 
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Ashton

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For me, I can wait for the 3.0 Adroid since I already have a computer and no hurries for me and that don't have to rush out and get the very first one on the block just so I could kick myself for not having patients ;)

This is where I'm sitting now that I don't need a tablet for work. I'm gonna bide my time and get the best possible combination of hardware/software.

Also I agree that there aren't enough *well known* tablets available, so Apple has an advantage. Mostly tho this is (imo) because Apple is marketing to consumers while the few tablets available otherwise are marketed to businesses. (I don't think I've ever seen a tablet in a consumer store like Bestbuy/walmart/etc --- All-In-One-PCs don't count)

If Apple had only aimed the iPad at businesses or if Dell/etc had marketed more for home, I think the tablet climate would be very different right now.

EDIT:
and I couldn't agree more with the vaporware "coming soon!" tablets "Put up or shut up!" is my thought exactly.
 

Bahamut

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Suggest you do a little research first before such a comment. There are at least three if not more tablets already out in the wild for sale in addition to Ipad/Toshiba’s Libretto W100 Tablet / Dell streak
and another (Exopc/SamSungung Galaxy) next month and Wetab / Hanvon tablets are out in Europe.

Are any of those actual competition for the iPad? Nope, not from many perspectives, nor have they been on the market for the nearly 6 months the iPad has so, my statement is still correct.

The iPad has no competition in its class at this point in time. The Dell Streak is not even close to the iPad in terms of product class - it's a cell phone running Android with a slightly larger than normal screen. The Toshiba W100 is a laptop computer more than anything else running a desktop computer operating system, not even close to the iPad in terms of product class.

Those other products either don't matter at all or they aren't available yet, so again my point was accurate. An Android is not an operating system designed for tablets or slates anyway, it's just being used on them because it's free for all intents and purposes and saves whatever manufacturer that chooses to use it some cash in the development process. They could all be using Ubuntu Netbook Remix and you'd get basically the same results.

Apple already owns the tablet/slate market after basically ~6 months of being in it. Sad but true...
 

DanNeely

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BTW: any chance of a WiNE for Android? Is it powerful enough to handle CPU emulation to run X86 programs?

Not even close. WIn32 is tightly coupled to x86, and simulating a different CPU architecture has a massive performance hit. NTM just doing same architecture virtualization without hardware support is a great big fail unless you're trying to run a 5-10 year old app.
 

FLECOM

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Ashton

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They could all be using Ubuntu Netbook Remix and you'd get basically the same results.

*muses* I'd love a nice 7-10" slate running Ubuntu Netbook remix... (2nd favorite distro after the late Mandrake)

Not even close. WIn32 is tightly coupled to x86, and simulating a different CPU architecture has a massive performance hit. NTM just doing same architecture virtualization without hardware support is a great big fail unless you're trying to run a 5-10 year old app.

That's disappointing, though it does make me iddly wonder if I could run a variant of wine to give me access to my 3-5 WinMo apps I like (Pocket Rar, (unless someone can recommend a nice android RAR program) TCPMP, Worms World Party, GPS software (who's name always escapes me), skyfire, and I had 1 more I cant remember atm...)

I bought one of these to play with a while back, dont buy one, its complete crap

Glad to hear from someone who did actually buy it. Thanks for the warning, sorry it turned out to be crap. Right now I'm holding off will Android 3.0 since I don't need a slate anymore.
 

Ronco

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QFT because this is exactly why Apple has had such success with the iPad. Not because it's the best product of its kind out there, but because its the ONLY product of its kind out there.

Well, as much as I take frequent opportunity to rail at the Dunning-Kruger Born-Again Mactard hordes, it's not just that, is it?

The Android Store is still a joke, many of the Chindroid me-too tablets can't even connect 'as is', while other tablets such as Archos have their own completely crippled sub-store. No-one (except perhaps MS waking up in a limited way) seems to have quite learned their lesson which Apple used to whip them in the ass with in dealing with the lowest-common-denominator consumers (especially as even the gatekeeper component of our tech press are now apparently composed of the same - just look at engadget et al), and Google and it's premier partners are still going for 'lesse what Apple does, then see what sticks to the wall' approach. And let's face it, most of the offerings are going to be products built to hit a certain price point, not to provide a baseline-quality usability experience. Every single product which promises to improve on the iPad, not just in terms of bells & whistles but in terms of the usability experience, is rapidly (or in the case of the Adam, a sort of long whimper) turning out to be vapourware.

My guess is, and more's the pity, that even when Android tablets from 'tier 1' makers do make their presence felt in the market, Apple is still going to be the best choice for the majority of consumers - and this is not, as you say, because Apple is making something exceptional. But the reason is it's because everyone else has one or more major holes in their strategy, infrastructure or product.
 
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Bahamut

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I specifically said the iPad is popular not because it's the best product - it's popular because it's the only one of its kind out there. Big HUGE difference in that point. I don't consider the iPad extraordinary, revolutionary (only in form factor, perhaps, but that's it), or outstanding in any way really. Only thing I can give Apple credit for is they put the device on the market before everybody else did and that's why they're leading, and there is no other reason for it. They got there first, that's it.

Google has a decent product with Android, and it's gaining in popularity, but the constraints of it (if it's not a cell phone, forget using the marketplace anytime soon, etc) are damaging the adoption. I mean with all the products that are actually available (read: primarily shitty Chinese tablets/slates that don't work for shit, aren't worth 1/5th their actual cost, and frustrate owners to no end) it's crippling to see what's happening.

Take Archos products again for example: none of them offer Android Marketplace access out of the box, it takes some hack(s) to get it functional, so let's hope this new generation of products is a bit more accessible in that respect.

I have a lot of issues with Apple, I really do, but for all the grief and crap they've caused over the years, and the overwhelming level of elitism they breed, they have their shit together like it or not, admit it or not.

The holiday season is rapidly approaching (doesn't matter to me at all in the big picture), so somebody out there better get their shit together and fast or yet another big HUGE opportunity just gets wasted.

I don't look at what might happen in weeks, months, years - I look at what's happening right fucking now and then extrapolate that over what it'll become as time passes.

Right fucking now nobody has anything going on except Apple, and that's all that really needs to be said. Vaporware, announcements, all that = nothing going on. Samsung has that Tab supposedly coming, but as of this post, nothing is going on. I don't care what the announcements say, I don't care that Microsoft is holding yet another "event" on October 11th (in London, of all places), none of that shit matters right now this moment. ExoPC, etc etc ad nauseum, none of it really matters at all - until it's on a shelf and somebody can buy it.

And Apple just continues to make money hand over fist because of it.
 

Ashton

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Well Said, Bahamut.

Common logic: Somone place a vaporware slate in my hand, cummon, I'll pay whatever price you asking.... what? you cant? ok I guess I'll get an iPad

Honestly, this is from personal experiance, As much as I hate on apple for it's cost, elite-ism, and lack of features, there is one thing that matters above all, even if it doesnt do much IT JUST F***ING WORKS!!! I got an insane deal on a macbook on eBay, bought it as a sort of gag gift to myself to laugh at Apple. And damned if it didnt acctually impress me! I have fewer problems with it on average than any of my windows boxes. Granted it cant do but maybe half of what they can do but it works! And this is what consumers want! No, it wont ever repalce my windows/linux laptops for trouble-shooting networking problems or playing the latest games, but just for the casual user who wants to type up a letter, watch a video, and surf the 'net without a dozen security warnings, a few crashes and maybe even a forced reboot or two, it's perfect! Apple hit on a VERY IMPORTANT key to mass-marketing. Less-powerful devices that dont "break" all the time will sell better than high-powered devices that do break all the time. (granted they failed to take into account the current economic climate and penny-pinching nature of many consumers, where most people will buy a win/lin device for $500 or less and struggle with it instead of paying $2K for a macbook...)

This goes double for the iPad. It's not the only one on the market (though there are few) but it's OUT THERE IN VIEW and IT WORKS
 

heatlesssun

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Apple elitism, that's funny and really not the case. People are paying a LOT more for devices other than the iPad.

At any rate the vaporware status of at least two Windows 7 slates will change this coming month, the ExoPC and the HP Slate both of which will launch next month and Android devices will launch in time.

Before you know it it'll be from going to vaporware to glut like that. Looking forward to inking in OneNote on my HP Slate.
 

Skott

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I was looking at info on that new Archos 10 tablet and when it ships it will run Android 2.2. In beta they used 2.1 from what I read. I have not heard anything about them moving to Android 3.0 so I'm guessing it won't happen for a while. Also I have heard a lot of complaints about past Archos build quality so I would hesitate before buying one. Obviously more research will be needed once Archos 10 goes on sale.

As far as the whole Apple iPad debate goes my thought is that Apple has a successful product obviously because its selling extremely well. I personally feel Apple didn't take it as far as they could have and at this point its more evolutionary rather than revolutionary. I'm waiting for a better product or more importantly one with more features. Wether its Apple or one of its up and coming competitors remains to be seen. We all know the technology is there. Someone just needs to build it. I'm not brand loyal so whoever builds what I want/need then I'll buy from them assuming quality is good. :D
 

Serpico

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I'm waiting for a better product or more importantly one with more features. Wether its Apple or one of its up and coming competitors remains to be seen.

Features for the most part are applications. Right now, the best quality and highest number of applications built expressly for a tablet are on the iPad. Aside from games, web browsing, forum posting, news reading, and email, I can also do things like use it as a remote control for my home theater, and it'll do things almost none of my other devices can, things like augmented reality applications for looking at constellations and other celestial bodies. It's called Star Walk, check it out on YouTube.

OS updates will come, right now it is lagging behind the iPhone in that regard (needs folders and multitasking NOW). Improved hardware will also come. Whether or not it will be worth it remains to be seen. The only thing that can make me upgrade is if they upgrade the display in the same way they did with the iPhone.
 

Ashton

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Features for the most part are applications. Right now, the best quality and highest number of applications built expressly for a tablet are on the iPad. Aside from games, web browsing, forum posting, news reading, and email, I can also do things like (...)

OS updates will come, right now it is lagging behind the iPhone in that regard (needs folders and multitasking NOW).

I considered iPad (as shocking as it was to me, it even has a reasonable entry-cost compared to most tablets) In part because, as noted, there are shittons of applications

However as also noted, Folders and Multitasking have it completely written off my list for now. When those are implemented, depending on the climate, I may end up with an iPad.
 

heatlesssun

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Features for the most part are applications. Right now, the best quality and highest number of applications built expressly for a touch screen slate are on the iPad.

I know where you were going with this and your intent is correct but this is why the term “tablet” can be confusing, at least to people that have work with slates before 2010, as obviously Windows tablets, i.e. pen slates, have the most software designed for them since active pens and mice are highly interchangeable and in most cases synonymous.

In order to accurately describe a computer one must denote both its form factor, such as slate, and its native human-machine interfaces, e.g. touch screens. The term “tablet” in IT comes out of the Wacom pen digitizer world and calling devices “tablets” that don’t even have pen digitizers isn’t accurate historically speaking. But even then “tablet” is actually a reference to a human-machine interface technology, not a form factor.
 
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Dome

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i just got back from China and they have tons of those things in electronics markets for sale. they look and feel like crap. no one buys them.
 
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