This is Intel’s Top secret weapon against AMD

Starfalcon

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Here's me with my i7 2600k @ 4.6 Ghz still waiting for Intel to release a new desktop CPU architecture that's worth upgrading to. If they'd released one 3 years ago, I would have upgraded back then. Same with 2 years ago, and with last year.

While my Sandy Bridge CPU has help-up phenomenally over the years, I can't put it off much longer. And if Intel doesn't deliver something new that's good, I'll go with AMD like so many others have now. My main reason for not going with AMD is simply unfamiliarity - I don't know if I'll encounter issues or limitations with an AMD CPU that I don't have with an Intel one. Notably, I want to be able to still run Windows 7 without problems created by the CPU and available drivers. I also don't want a power-inefficient and hot-running CPU - which everything Intel is releasing on 14 nm is.
I was a huge win 7 diehard, but since I was going with Zen 2 to upgrade from my 3770K, I had to bite the bullet and go with windows 10. It took a little getting used to the new OS and reskinning it with open shell helped get over the hump. Now it mostly looks like windows 7 and I can handle it just like my old rig.
 

kirbyrj

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Agreed, ever since AMD got back on track with Ryzen the AMD bois come out in full force and shitting on anything Intel related, good thing there are other forums that actually have people who discuss these sort of things from a neutral stand-point though.
Right off of the bat, when the title is called "Intel's Top Secret Weapon Against AMD," all bets of neutrality are off. Just because the responses don't align with your preferred brand doesn't mean that the forum is bad.

If the title was, "Intel to use nanotransistors within 5 years" maybe there would be more discussion to your liking where the actual product gets discussed.
 
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defaultluser

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Right off of the bat, when the title is called "Intel's Top Secret Weapon Against AMD," all bets of neutrality are already gone. Just because the responses don't align with your preferred brand doesn't mean that the forum is bad.

If the title was, "Intel to use nanotransistors within 5 years" maybe there would be more discussion to your liking where the actual product gets discussed.

Right, with such an obviously unreliable company, a title like that tells you Erik has already made up his mind.

That said, I've posted articles with a more balanced title, and gotten zero responses. Lazy People on the internets only want to complain about how you're SO WRONG, and DEEP THOUGHTS actually takes effort!
 

legcramp

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Right off of the bat, when the title is called "Intel's Top Secret Weapon Against AMD," all bets of neutrality are already gone. Just because the responses don't align with your preferred brand doesn't mean that the forum is bad.

If the title was, "Intel to use nanotransistors within 5 years" maybe there would be more discussion to your liking where the actual product gets discussed.
nah I don't prefer any brand, I owned way more AMD systems/cards than Intel. You AMD shintels know who you are lol.
 

N4CR

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Intel’s 7nm is already on track and they have started that they have been hitting their marks with it and it is on track. Their 10nm fiasco has taught them a lot, unless they have been lying on their investor reports.
They said the same shit that 10nm was on track because a single notebook had it at 50% or worse yield in 2018..
Intel is about as trustworthy as Raja RTG.
 

N4CR

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Here's me with my i7 2600k @ 4.6 Ghz still waiting for Intel to release a new desktop CPU architecture that's worth upgrading to. If they'd released one 3 years ago, I would have upgraded back then. Same with 2 years ago, and with last year.

While my Sandy Bridge CPU has help-up phenomenally over the years, I can't put it off much longer. And if Intel doesn't deliver something new that's good, I'll go with AMD like so many others have now. My main reason for not going with AMD is simply unfamiliarity - I don't know if I'll encounter issues or limitations with an AMD CPU that I don't have with an Intel one. Notably, I want to be able to still run Windows 7 without problems created by the CPU and available drivers. I also don't want a power-inefficient and hot-running CPU - which everything Intel is releasing on 14 nm is.
Same situation as you but am definitely going AMD. Intel doesn't deserve shit even if they were a few percent faster in 20,000 row excel sheets and some shitty twitch FPS for teenagers. You will have issues with W7 on Intel or AMD, however MSI has supported with drivers some Zen+ (and maybe Zen2?) on their boards, which I have also used on Asus boards to run W7 on a not supported Zen+ 2600x... I dont' think that option exists for Intel though..
Win7 will be hard and you'll have to bake your own drivers in to even get USB working. The rest is getting harder as new chipsets for LAN/etc are released... but I will try multiboot W7 and W10 and linux.
 

vegeta535

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I don't believe this.

There is no reason to believe that most people are able to essentially reinvent modern computing from scratch and do it better than what Intel already has.
A person who CAN invent a CPU architecture better than what Intel or AMD has will form their own company.

Geniuses who can invent new CPU architectures will have too much pride for one, but most importantly, why would you give yourself to Intel, considering their ethical stance?
They'd just screw you over. I would never give Intel my magnum opus.

And no one else with those skills would either.

Intel is over. They will live only for as long as their marketing team can keep tricking people into buying it, and as long as they can make incremental improvements to an architecture that is getting older and showing nothing but stagnation.

They have nothing.
Just like AMD had nothing for over 5 years. Keep thinking Intel is done. Unlike AMD Intel has their hands in a lot of different segments. They even joining the GPU market. It is not like Intel CPUs are compelet trash atm. They will be back on top within five years.
 

Red Falcon

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Just like AMD had nothing for over 5 years. Keep thinking Intel is done. Unlike AMD Intel has their hands in a lot of different segments. They even joining the GPU market. It is not like Intel CPUs are compelet trash atm. They will be back on top within five years.
AMD didn't have 60+ CPU hardware exploits continuously being revealed within less than two years.
More so than the lack of CPU performance, which as you said isn't bad (except for the high TDP), the constant bugs and security exploits have severely damaged Intel's reputation.

While it will take a long time for Intel to fall into obscurity, at this rate they certainly aren't going to be around forever.
They have their hands in every pot, yet none of those pots are particularly great with their offerings.

A lot of companies are jumping ship from Intel to AMD or ARM-based products, and if Intel doesn't get their proverbial shit together soon, they are going to fall into obscurity along with x86/x86-64.
The "too big to fail" nomenclature is a myth, and Intel certainly is not immune to failure, as we have witnessed consistently across the board over the last two years.
 

Grimlakin

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It feels like by the time Intel gets to an inflection point of performance and size at 5nm that AMD with TSMC will be at sub nanometer scaling for it's paths. Maybe it's just me but hearing 5nm by 2023 when AMD is coming with 5nm next year is kind of a meh announcement.

Don't get me wrong. Intel is good at drawing out every bit of MHZ they can out of a chip and they seem to be good at doing it. (Lots of experience with the same architecture so that makes it easier.)
 

Ready4Dis

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Agreed, ever since AMD got back on track with Ryzen the AMD bois come out in full force and shitting on anything Intel related, good thing there are other forums that actually have people who discuss these sort of things from a neutral stand-point though.
You mean all the Intel fan bois went into hiding? See, you can word it either way. It was just an announcement of Intel saying they are going to compete on node process.... After their 10nm debacle you think people aren't going to be skeptical? If they executed 10nm with little issues then maybe I would take it on face value. If you want to believe what they say regardless of what happened in the past, then bury your head in the sand so you don't have to listen to "AMD fanbois"... Or anyone that can think for themselves. I currently have 6 desktops, 5 are Intel btw as is my home server. But hey, that doesn't matter, if I don't 100% agree and take everything Intel says as gospel I must be an AMD fan boi. Ever think maybe you are part of the reason why you can't have a conversation with someone from an actually neutral standpoint? I would love Intel and AMD to keep releasing great products, I don't wish either to go away or stop being competitive, because that gives me choices. I'm also not ignorant to where Intel is currently positioned and what got them there (4 core Skylakes for years with minimal increases and a complete failure to execute their 10nm plans, multiple times after revising them). They still have tons of market share and are doing absolutely astonishing with 14nm. I'm sure they will catch back up, but I'm still skeptical anytime they say their process nodes are on track. I don't have to be an AMD fan boi to think that way. Heck, I'd still be impressed/surprised if AMD got zen3 out the door this year at any real quantities. So, I'm just skeptical in general, but since it was an Intel thread, I was merely pointing out my skepticism for them.

ps. Sorry for the rant, just seems people are way to quick to jump the fan boi moniker anytime there is any disagreement or skepticism thrown the way of their favorite company.
 

Ready4Dis

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Just like AMD had nothing for over 5 years. Keep thinking Intel is done. Unlike AMD Intel has their hands in a lot of different segments. They even joining the GPU market. It is not like Intel CPUs are compelet trash atm. They will be back on top within five years.
Well, I wouldn't put a time frame on it, but I'll share the sentiment. Intel is not "done", but they do need to pull their collective heads from their rears. Their CPU's are friggin amazing for a 14nm part honestly, but they really need to get things figured out sooner than later. I don't think we'll see a true separation in the market like we did during the Bulldozer years for some time as AMD is much better than that now and Intel will come back. Not to say one or both won't make some misteps at some point in time though, but I feel the differences won't be as major as in the past.
 

legcramp

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You mean all the Intel fan bois went into hiding? See, you can word it either way. It was just an announcement of Intel saying they are going to compete on node process.... After their 10nm debacle you think people aren't going to be skeptical? If they executed 10nm with little issues then maybe I would take it on face value. If you want to believe what they say regardless of what happened in the past, then bury your head in the sand so you don't have to listen to "AMD fanbois"... Or anyone that can think for themselves. I currently have 6 desktops, 5 are Intel btw as is my home server. But hey, that doesn't matter, if I don't 100% agree and take everything Intel says as gospel I must be an AMD fan boi. Ever think maybe you are part of the reason why you can't have a conversation with someone from an actually neutral standpoint? I would love Intel and AMD to keep releasing great products, I don't wish either to go away or stop being competitive, because that gives me choices. I'm also not ignorant to where Intel is currently positioned and what got them there (4 core Skylakes for years with minimal increases and a complete failure to execute their 10nm plans, multiple times after revising them). They still have tons of market share and are doing absolutely astonishing with 14nm. I'm sure they will catch back up, but I'm still skeptical anytime they say their process nodes are on track. I don't have to be an AMD fan boi to think that way. Heck, I'd still be impressed/surprised if AMD got zen3 out the door this year at any real quantities. So, I'm just skeptical in general, but since it was an Intel thread, I was merely pointing out my skepticism for them.

ps. Sorry for the rant, just seems people are way to quick to jump the fan boi moniker anytime there is any disagreement or skepticism thrown the way of their favorite company.
You're right, I wasn't even directing it at you specifically, only the "Intel is dead" crowd which is wishful thinking.
 

Ready4Dis

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You're right, I wasn't even directing it at you specifically, only the "Intel is dead" crowd which is wishful thinking.
It's all good, there are plenty of fan bois (they do exist for sure), but not everyone is :). Just have to recognize them for who they are and try not to get dragged in, lol. I agree, Intel is not dead, but I think what they're saying is if they don't get things corrected it can lead to that (which can be said about any company that isn't performing or missing goals). It is highly unlikely Intel will let it get to this point, they are still competing well even with an old node and are still posting great profits/margins. These are silly 'doomsday' things, but if you've ever seen large companies fall, it's because of these small misteps and then not fixing the actual cause. (I in no way feel this will happen to Intel, just saying that it's not an impossibility for any company though).
 

Lakados

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I have been sorta excited for those new gate designs since Intel first displayed the design concept last year, I look forward to seeing what they do with it.
 

Red Falcon

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IBM is still in business.
Their focus is very small compared to what they used to be, and their Power ISA and Z Mainframes still have a specialized market that meets demands, not counting vendor lock-in.
Intel has vendor lock-in to a point, but cracks are starting to show in that, and aside from the x86 license itself, there isn't anything hardened enough to keep them in business (outside of licensing) if they continue down the path they have taken over the last decade, and certainly not from what they have done in the last few years.

Intel isn't going away overnight, the software and user-base is far too large, but what they do isn't anything that couldn't be replaced by another CPU maker (AMD) or ISA (ARM), which over the next decade, is a high probability of happening.
What Apple is doing right now is laying the foundation for just such an event to happen, and if AMD continues with their current stride, Intel will be hit from both sides.

I have been sorta excited for those new gate designs since Intel first displayed the design concept last year, I look forward to seeing what they do with it.
I hope it will be substantial as well.
Intel needs to up their game to prevent AMD from becoming lackluster and stagnate like Intel themselves have been over the last decade.
 

kirbyrj

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nah I don't prefer any brand, I owned way more AMD systems/cards than Intel. You AMD shintels know who you are lol.
Lol...shintel. I haven't seen him around here in a long time. I think it is juanrga's alter-ego or juan's prior account that got banned.

I think the truth is somewhere in between "Intel is Dead" and "Intel Secret Weapon DOMINATE!!!!"
 

Teenyman45

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I think it's going to depend on whether Jim Keller's recent departure from Intel was due to disgust or whether he truly finished the design he wanted to do for team blue.
 

Lakados

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Their focus is very small compared to what they used to be, and their Power ISA and Z Mainframes still have a specialized market that meets demands, not counting vendor lock-in.
Intel has vendor lock-in to a point, but cracks are starting to show in that, and aside from the x86 license itself, there isn't anything hardened enough to keep them in business (outside of licensing) if they continue down the path they have taken over the last decade, and certainly not from what they have done in the last few years.

Intel isn't going away overnight, the software and user-base is far too large, but what they do isn't anything that couldn't be replaced by another CPU maker (AMD) or ISA (ARM), which over the next decade, is a high probability of happening.
What Apple is doing right now is laying the foundation for just such an event to happen, and if AMD continues with their current stride, Intel will be hit from both sides.


I hope it will be substantial as well.
Intel needs to up their game to prevent AMD from becoming lackluster and stagnate like Intel themselves have been over the last decade.
Well AMD is heavily constrained by TSMC at this stage, so if for no other reason Intel will continue for a LONG time because they are the only game in town that can produce any large volume. So yeah AMD can focus on small batch stuff for a while longer, which isn't bad. Aim Small Build Small, its a solid model that works in a wide number of fields it's simple, profitable, and highly mobile. They can iterate their design in short periods and update it to match current usage metrics and optimize it each time, Intel's management should be looking at their play book on this one because AMD has basically stolen their Tick-Tock process and gone to town with it, but where Intel is a juggernaut making any change in direction a lumbering task, AMD has been forced to shave and trim to the point where they are very focused and agile. It is an interesting matchup and they can both take things in different directions to very cool places.

Totally unrelated but I wonder if AMD has been playing with any other architectures behind closed doors, if they were to start designing ARM chips to be pumped out by Samsung for tablets or ChromeOS devices that could be pretty entertaining. I would love to see what they could do for an SBC for giggles sake alone, and not those $900 ones that have been advertised but something in the $100 like the Jetson Nano's.
 

Disposed

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While it will take a long time for Intel to fall into obscurity, at this rate they certainly aren't going to be around forever.
The fuck? They are not even in decline as a company and you act like they are somehow dying?

People here need a serious reality check. At the actual rate they are going they will be around long after you are dead...

Intel is clearly stuck in terms of innovation but they are still leading the market, stocks are doing fine and they are sitting on a mountain of money. WTF are you guys smoking that you see doom in their future? AMD just barely breaking 20% desktop CPU market share and people are out here talking Intels doom. :ROFLMAO:

Lets wait until Intel actually starts hurting as a company then talk funeral plans.
 

kirbyrj

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The fuck? They are not even in decline as a company and you act like they are somehow dying?

People here need a serious reality check. At the actual rate they are going they will be around long after you are dead...

Intel is clearly stuck in terms of innovation but they are still leading the market, stocks are doing fine and they are sitting on a mountain of money. WTF are you guys smoking that you see doom in their future? AMD just barely breaking 20% desktop CPU market share and people are out here talking Intels doom. :ROFLMAO:

Lets wait until Intel actually starts hurting as a company then talk funeral plans.
A couple things that could hurt them significantly.

1). ARM (in general). If servers (Amazon and Google for example) start moving toward ARM in that space, it could shift the industry toward replacing x86 in the server market. Apple moving to ARM (while more of a PR hit at this point than anything) could have other companies looking at alternatives to x86. I'm not saying it is going to happen. I'm just saying that the possibilities are greater for that to happen now than 3 years ago.

2). AMD growth in the server space. Intel needs another strong product replacement cycle to weather the AMD storm. Performance per watt definitely favors AMD at this point, and that's an important metric in the server space.

3). AMD growth in the laptop space. 4000 series laptop parts are surprisingly capable compared to the Intel alternatives and should continue to be through 2020/2021.

4). More process woes beyond just the 10nm problems they are experiencing now. This is kind of a wildcard. Intel says that they are progressing as expected, but they said that about 10nm also. The fact that they are backporting desktop parts to 14nm (Rocket Lake) is a serious problem. We've been expecting 10nm since what? 2016? And then 7nm in 2018? I like great ideas as much as the next person, but if you can't execute then it's just a great idea. Maybe these nanoribbons are the answer? Too early to say. Another 10nm style failure could be catastrophic for Intel.

Yes, the DIY market is very niche, but the DIY market move away from Intel isn't unnoticed. If you start getting Dell and Lenovo replacing corporate office computers with AMD parts, it wouldn't be a good sign. The lack of an IGP is probably all that is keeping AMD from encroaching on that area right now.
 

defaultluser

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IBM is still in business.

IBM has the exact same revenue today that they did 20 years ago, but in order to do that, they had to completely transform their business (ditch chip fabs, ditch computer building, ditch disk drives, ditch everything except software and services). They also had to cheat by outsourcing most of their US jobs to India (only way they can turn a profit in such a highly-competitive software market)

I don't see Intel doing that - IBM had mainframe service (now Cloud) customers to fall back on, but Intel has always been about selling hardware.

This is why I consider Intel to be doomed by their current mismanagement - they have nothing else revenue-wise to fall back on, aside from selling chips. They don't even have AMD;s semi-custm revenue to balance things out.
 
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IdiotInCharge

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If you start getting Dell and Lenovo replacing corporate office computers with AMD parts, it wouldn't be a good sign. The lack of an IGP is probably all that is keeping AMD from encroaching on that area right now.
The lack of IGPs, and the lack of competent transcoding blocks (how the hell is AMD behind here?), is really hurting them in the desktop space beyond enthusiasts. Can I have my eight-core mobile APU with 4.5GHz bursts and Big Navi-based graphics, please? Would help if it had solid HEVC transcoding and USB4 / Thunderbolt as well.
 

defaultluser

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Someone has to make them, and Intel is still the highest-volume manufacturer, and maintains experience at fabricating all kinds of ICs. Only TSMC can beat them for density, and only at a fraction of the volume.

If all you're doing is selling chips, why can't TSMC do it?

I said that Intel would crater with another 20 years of mismanagement, because it's easy fr their competitors to build new chip fabs. Just because Intel makes chips, doesn't mean anyone has to buy them, and that kinda tranndition will mean they wwill starrtt losing money on thos high-cost fabs.
 

IdiotInCharge

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If all you're doing is selling chips, why can't TSMC do it?

I said that Intel woould crater with anothwr 20 years of mismanagement, because it's easy fr their competitors to build new chip fabs.
Intel's competitors will be lucky if Intel continues to take their time with their fabs.
 

odditory

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The fuck? They are not even in decline as a company and you act like they are somehow dying?

People here need a serious reality check. At the actual rate they are going they will be around long after you are dead...

Intel is clearly stuck in terms of innovation but they are still leading the market, stocks are doing fine and they are sitting on a mountain of money. WTF are you guys smoking that you see doom in their future? AMD just barely breaking 20% desktop CPU market share and people are out here talking Intels doom. :ROFLMAO:

Lets wait until Intel actually starts hurting as a company then talk funeral plans.
Didn't you know? AMD has had higher core counts on the market for 5 minutes so Intel's marketshare and inertia went *poof* overnight.

Like throwing three ice cubes into a pool and the pool immediately freezes.

Some things science just can't explain.
 
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